basketdiva
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,623
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:09 GMT
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Post by basketdiva on Jul 27, 2016 23:37:16 GMT
The woman in the situation, who is not breaking any vows and had no responsibility to the man's wife, is the one who needs "sweet justice"
Why does she need "sweet justice"? She knew the man was married and also knew about the company policy ( or should have if she read the company manual). She made a decision that is going to cost her for years. She has responsibility in this mess too.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 23:38:27 GMT
What a mess! My recommendation would be to can them all. Every single one of them has shown lack of judgement. What grounds would you have to fire Employee B? She was stupid maybe but, unfortunately, that's not usually a fire-able offense! Employee A and Employee C would be held to the no-fraternization rule. Unless they could prove that part of the affair was conducted on company property while on the clock
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Post by redrulz on Jul 27, 2016 23:39:03 GMT
I'd argue for A&C to be gone due to failure to follow frat policy as mgmt/supervisors. I'd keep B because she has the biggest chances at winning an employment lawsuit (can claim sexual harassment and can claim that the relationship was forced somehow since he was higher up the chain...could have promised her a promotion, etc AND she is now pregnant which comes with its own protections) He brought his personal life into work. I guess I could find a bit of mercy of the C, but if you get rid of A, I am not sure how you can't get rid of C. If you don't, he might actually have a gender discrimination claim since they both broke the same policy/rule. I feel bad that both these ladies got caught up with such a jerk, but have to wonder if they didn't both know that he was married? And agree with whoever posted about them taking the kids on a vacation -- who takes their kids on a vacation with the woman that they are cheating with along with her kids? Won't his kids tell mom? Or maybe that is what he is hoping for! Very good points! Now you know why my life stinks and why this will keep me awake! We are still investigating about who knew what, when this started, who initiated, etc. Lots to consider - including potential legal risks. It sounds like a nightmare! I don't know anything about HR, but do you have access to legal counsel to protect the company? And, if I am following correctly, pregnant employee is B, right? She's not a supervisor or in a leadership role? Because I would hate to fire a pregnant woman, even with a cause. Has this type of thing ever happened in your company before? Because I would think if you don't fire the employees that broke the non-fraternization policy you will end up having this happen again.
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Post by redrulz on Jul 27, 2016 23:40:36 GMT
What grounds would you have to fire Employee B? She was stupid maybe but, unfortunately, that's not usually a fire-able offense! Employee A and Employee C would be held to the no-fraternization rule. Unless they could prove that part of the affair was conducted on company property while on the clockEww! I totally did not think of that! I hope not.
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 27, 2016 23:42:20 GMT
Very good points! Now you know why my life stinks and why this will keep me awake! We are still investigating about who knew what, when this started, who initiated, etc. Lots to consider - including potential legal risks. It sounds like a nightmare! I don't know anything about HR, but do you have access to legal counsel to protect the company? And, if I am following correctly, pregnant employee is B, right? She's not a supervisor or in a leadership role? Because I would hate to fire a pregnant woman, even with a cause. Has this type of thing ever happened in your company before? Because I would think if you don't fire the employees that broke the non-fraternization policy you will end up having this happen again. Yes, I do have access to legal counsel and will be talking to them once investigation is done. Pregnant employee B is not in a supervisory or management role. Nothing like this has happened before at this company. Different things have happened as they do in every company, but not this scenario.
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 27, 2016 23:42:56 GMT
Unless they could prove that part of the affair was conducted on company property while on the clock Eww! I totally did not think of that! I hope not. Also part of the investigation
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Post by Lexica on Jul 27, 2016 23:48:27 GMT
I would think the termination of both A and C would send the appropriate message to the rest of the managers and employees. Since B was not in a position of authority, and was made pregnant by someone in upper management, she might have grounds to sue and win if she were let go. She has not conducted herself in the best light, but did she break any policy rules? I would think her job would be protected, but her reputation is shot.
You have to know that since so many people already know about this, and soon it will be everyone because news like this travels so fast in a company, that they will be looking to how HR handles this. I don't know how A and C could continue in their current positions and expect the respect necessary to do their jobs. They both knew what they were risking. I think anything less than termination would be too dangerous. Having A, a pregnant B, and C all working for the same company just spells disaster. It would be awfully hard to enforce any other rules and regulations if something this egregious was ignored. And for the record, I feel awful for Mrs. A. The rest all knew what they were walking into. Poor Mrs. A and Baby B are the unfortunate victims here.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 27, 2016 23:57:39 GMT
What I want to know that I didn't see asked is ---
Where is the wife in all this? How was A able to go on vacation with B and leave his wife at home?!!! Or did she go and it was "coincidence" meeting ??
Does the wife know about B or C yet?!!
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Post by snappinsami on Jul 27, 2016 23:58:20 GMT
Yikes. Doesn't make me miss my HR days at all, that's for sure. But I agree that Emp A should be fired. B & C may need to be at least informally counseled as well.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 27, 2016 23:58:41 GMT
Do you have a no fraternization policy at work? Personally, I think it is sweet justice that a woman sleeping with a married man finds out he is cheating on her as well. I think that's a really mysogonystic view. The woman in the situation, who is not breaking any vows and had no responsibility to the man's wife, is the one who needs "sweet justice". I don't know about 'sweet justice' but I didn't date married people because they are cheaters, no matter the excuse, no matter what sweet talking they do, they are cheaters. And anyone ought to expect a cheater to cheat. DUH! No matter the gender of the married person. Even if the have an 'open marriage' Then they have a very different view than I do of what a relationship is. But no she owed no one anything and needs no justice. But she really shouldn't be surprised in any way.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 28, 2016 0:02:57 GMT
In my past life, I was head of HR for a very large company. The owner of the company (my boss) was having an affair with a receptionist. And, unbeknownst to me, my assistant, as well. I found out when the receptionist accused my assistant of trying to murder her. Except, naturally, she told the president of our company instead of the police. Both "ladies" ultimately accused one another of harassment and took out restraining orders on each other. It was a mess of epic proportions.
Thanks for reminding me that I don't miss HR ever. What a mess you have to deal with!
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zookeeper
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,909
Aug 28, 2014 2:37:56 GMT
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Post by zookeeper on Jul 28, 2016 0:04:49 GMT
Well...now I don't feel bad for going to HR to help with a write up for an employee who called another employee a "cheap ass mother f*cker" via text!
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Post by Woobster on Jul 28, 2016 0:06:00 GMT
So employee A (I called him Joe in my head) gets fired. employee B (I called her Sara (no h because H's are EW) is not going to be getting good child support from a guy with no job. Did employee C (Emily) know about B? What you need now is the wife to show up because she just found out about the affairs and have her confront them all on your property Minus employee C... This scenario played out at a former workplace of mine, including the spouse showing up to turn things up to Jerry Springer level. In this instance, employees A and B both got fired because they were doing their thing on company property (a break room, a copy room, the parking lot, etc.).
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
Posts: 3,835
Jun 26, 2014 12:56:40 GMT
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Post by CeeScraps on Jul 28, 2016 0:06:03 GMT
OMG....I don't envy you having to wade through all of this. I hope you have help. I can't imagine trying to document all of this on my own with no one to talk to about it all. Oh, my questions...A is on vacation now. Is he with his wife? Do they too have children? What are the ages of A....B....C.....? Not that it makes a difference, just curious.
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Post by mom on Jul 28, 2016 0:10:28 GMT
You're gonna have to remember to update this thread!
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jul 28, 2016 0:14:15 GMT
Is there more than 1 physical facility at your company? So that some of these people (stupid though they are) can keep their jobs but be separated? I might suggest demotions of A and C, moving them each down a step or two. I really hope there are solutions short of marching all the participants out the door. Maybe ask for resignations and give them a period of time to find new employment.
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 28, 2016 0:26:20 GMT
What I want to know that I didn't see asked is --- Where is the wife in all this? How was A able to go on vacation with B and leave his wife at home?!!! Or did she go and it was "coincidence" meeting ?? Does the wife know about B or C yet?!! I have no information on the wife and whether she knows, if they are still together, how a vacation without her happened, etc. stay tuned..there may be more drama to follow. Ugh.
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janeinbama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,176
Location: Alabama
Jan 29, 2015 16:24:49 GMT
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Post by janeinbama on Jul 28, 2016 0:26:40 GMT
The irony of Employee A & B taking their kids on a church vacation trip? That is just wrong on some many levels. An again, true life is stranger than fiction!!!!
Refugee Peas have your back kimpossible!!!
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 28, 2016 0:30:56 GMT
Doesn't Kim Possible have a goofy guy as a sidekick? Maybe you need one of those
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Post by hop2 on Jul 28, 2016 0:31:03 GMT
Eww! I totally did not think of that! I hope not. Also part of the investigation . I'm so sorry for you (Ewwwwww)
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 28, 2016 0:32:31 GMT
Doesn't Kim Possible have a goofy guy as a sidekick? Maybe you need one of those You are right! I need a goofy guy sidekick! If anyone has one, send him my way.
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 28, 2016 0:33:24 GMT
The irony of Employee A & B taking their kids on a church vacation trip? That is just wrong on some many levels. An again, true life is stranger than fiction!!!! Refugee Peas have your back kimpossible!!! Another cheerleader..thank you!
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 28, 2016 0:34:43 GMT
In my past life, I was head of HR for a very large company. The owner of the company (my boss) was having an affair with a receptionist. And, unbeknownst to me, my assistant, as well. I found out when the receptionist accused my assistant of trying to murder her. Except, naturally, she told the president of our company instead of the police. Both "ladies" ultimately accused one another of harassment and took out restraining orders on each other. It was a mess of epic proportions. Thanks for reminding me that I don't miss HR ever. What a mess you have to deal with! Yikes!!!! Drama at its best!
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 28, 2016 0:35:57 GMT
So employee A (I called him Joe in my head) gets fired. employee B (I called her Sara (no h because H's are EW) is not going to be getting good child support from a guy with no job. Did employee C (Emily) know about B? What you need now is the wife to show up because she just found out about the affairs and have her confront them all on your property Minus employee C... This scenario played out at a former workplace of mine, including the spouse showing up to turn things up to Jerry Springer level. In this instance, employees A and B both got fired because they were doing their thing on company property (a break room, a copy room, the parking lot, etc.). That too is popcorn worthy! Ewe if there is video!
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Post by christine58 on Jul 28, 2016 0:37:34 GMT
Minus employee C... This scenario played out at a former workplace of mine, including the spouse showing up to turn things up to Jerry Springer level. In this instance, employees A and B both got fired because they were doing their thing on company property (a break room, a copy room, the parking lot, etc.). That too is popcorn worthy! Ewe if there is video! We had two administrators that got caught like Woobster said. Doing the horizontal mambo on a couch in an office. Both were married. Both got fired
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 28, 2016 0:38:43 GMT
OMG....I don't envy you having to wade through all of this. I hope you have help. I can't imagine trying to document all of this on my own with no one to talk to about it all. Oh, my questions...A is on vacation now. Is he with his wife? Do they too have children? What are the ages of A....B....C.....? Not that it makes a difference, just curious. Not sure about the details about A and his time off. I'm secretly hoping he is interviewing for a new job! A has 2 kids, one 18 and the other 12. B has one kid, 6 C has 2 kids, do not know ages
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Post by silverlining on Jul 28, 2016 0:39:06 GMT
I don't understand why HR has to investigate who knew what when, etc.
In my workplace, the only question would be who broke policy. Employee A and C would be fired because they broke the fraternization policy, and it would be done. You're fortunate that you have clear policies!
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 28, 2016 0:39:41 GMT
That too is popcorn worthy! Ewe if there is video! We had two administrators that got caught like Woobster said. Doing the horizontal mambo on a couch in an office. Both were married. Both got fired More folks that need to leave their hormones outside the door before showing up to work.
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 28, 2016 0:42:13 GMT
I don't understand why HR has to investigate who knew what when, etc. In my workplace, the only question would be who broke policy. Employee A and C would be fired because they broke the fraternization policy, and it would be done. You're fortunate that you have clear policies! HR should investigate anytime something is reported that may break company policy or be illegal. The company has to be aware of any potential legal risks. As someone earlier said, Employee B or C could file a sexual harassment claim, etc.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 28, 2016 0:44:11 GMT
I don't understand why HR has to investigate who knew what when, etc. In my workplace, the only question would be who broke policy. Employee A and C would be fired because they broke the fraternization policy, and it would be done. You're fortunate that you have clear policies! HR should investigate anytime something is reported that may break company policy or be illegal. The company has to be aware of any potential legal risks. As someone earlier said, Employee B or C could file a sexual harassment claim, etc. Or realistically even A if C had any pull over his job.
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