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Post by anniefb on Oct 16, 2016 20:28:02 GMT
Having seen the power of the Peas in solving several genealogy mysteries, I’d appreciate any tips/advice in trying to trace one of my great aunts who emigrated to the US. I’ve managed to find some info but the trail has stopped with the 1940 federal census.
My great aunt’s name is Rose (originally Rosa) LAUTERBACH born 5 February 1888 in Stryj, Austria (later Poland). Parents David LAUTERBACH and Dora HAHN. I have managed to find some information - mainly through Ancestry:
Her arrival in NY on Aug 6 1907.
Her naturalisation in 1921.
Several journeys between NYC and Europe working on trans-Atlantic ships in the 20s.
Her residence at 2717 Kenmore Place, Brooklyn in the 1930 federal census (lodging with the WOLFF family).
Her residence at140 W71st Street, NYC in the 1940 federal census.
Just wondering if anyone has suggestions for other sources I may not have considered? Newspapers? Phone directories? Other censuses?
I did a search for Rose in the SSDI and found nothing. But I understand that not all deaths are listed. There are some Roses with the same birth date. Of course she could have married, but in 1940, at least, she was still listed as single.
I can just wait for the 1950 federal census, but it would be good to make some progress in the meantime. So any suggestions appreciated!!
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,663
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 16, 2016 22:03:40 GMT
Where is the rest of her family in 1940-1950? Could she have gone to live with a sibling in another state? Did she have a middle name she could be going by? Do you have obits for other family members with her listed as survivor? Where is the family buried? Have you looked at findagrave?
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Post by melanell on Oct 16, 2016 22:05:35 GMT
Papers & directories definitely would have been my first suggestions. Also, simply googling all possible variations of her name, both alone, and with NYC, Brooklyn, or NY. Also, any genealogy groups on FB devoted to NYC, NY, or Brooklyn. I have to leave for dinner, but I'll think about it more and come back later.  |
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Post by knit.pea on Oct 16, 2016 22:59:09 GMT
Try searching fultonpostcards.
I have found a lot of NYS info there (obits, newspaper articles, etc.).
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Oct 16, 2016 23:17:53 GMT
Are you working through any of the genealogy sites or on your own? You probably have this information, but I'll give you what I've found so far.
On Ancestry.com, I was able to find copies of her naturalization papers which show her birthplace as Galicia, Austria, not Stryj. All other information matches up though.
I also found a copy of an application for Seaman's Protection Certificate from May 23, 1922 that also has her photograph. That application indicates she is to travel on the Pres Pierce (Peninsular State) employed as a Stwdess (Stewardess I'm guessing).
Maybe those will be clues to help you along. I hope you are able to pick up her trail soon!
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Post by melanell on Oct 16, 2016 23:41:02 GMT
You have to really work hard to nail down places in this part of the world during this time frame. "Austria" became the go-to answer for many people because borders were changing so often. You will find people who were actually born in Poland, Russia, Galicia, etc. all listing their birthplace as Austria. If she was born in what used to be called Galicia, I have a few links you can look into if you ever wish to go down that path. Where in the world is Galicia?Galicia--RootswebPolish Genealogy Project -- Galicia Galician Genealogy This one is not about Galicia, but speaks to the issue of people being listed as being born in Austria when they were actually Ukrainian. Was your baba born in Austria?Also, I definitely second looking for obituaries for any siblings. I have found a lot of hints for people by way of their siblings. |
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 17:33:39 GMT
Where is the rest of her family in 1940-1950? Could she have gone to live with a sibling in another state? Did she have a middle name she could be going by? Do you have obits for other family members with her listed as survivor? Where is the family buried? Have you looked at findagrave? Her immediate family remained in Galicia and in other parts of the (then) Austrian Empire. There were more distant relatives in NYC, and she did originally seem to stay with some cousins when she first arrived, but other than that I'm not sure if she had much contact with them. Worth some further investigation though! SaveSave |
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 17:48:41 GMT
I also found a copy of an application for Seaman's Protection Certificate from May 23, 1922 that also has her photograph. That application indicates she is to travel on the Pres Pierce (Peninsular State) employed as a Stwdess (Stewardess I'm guessing). Thanks for the tip **GypsyGirl** - just went and found the application. I didn't have any photos of Rose so it's great to find one! |
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 17:52:16 GMT
Thanks melanell and @knitpea for your suggestions. Will definitely check out some of those sites and see what I can find in newspapers etc. My mother knew that my grandfather had a sister but had never met her and it wasn't until I started researching properly that we discovered she's gone to the US. At least there are so many records online now, which does make things easier! |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,663
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 17, 2016 17:52:19 GMT
Where is the rest of her family in 1940-1950? Could she have gone to live with a sibling in another state? Did she have a middle name she could be going by? Do you have obits for other family members with her listed as survivor? Where is the family buried? Have you looked at findagrave? Her immediate family remained in Galicia and in other parts of the (then) Austrian Empire. There were more distant relatives in NYC, and she did originally seem to stay with some cousins when she first arrived, but other than that I'm not sure if she had much contact with them. Worth some further investigation though! SaveSaveYeah, if you can't go through a brick wall go around it! Look for Obits on her siblings, parents and cousins. Could she have gone back to Galicia? |
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 18:03:58 GMT
Her immediate family remained in Galicia and in other parts of the (then) Austrian Empire. There were more distant relatives in NYC, and she did originally seem to stay with some cousins when she first arrived, but other than that I'm not sure if she had much contact with them. Worth some further investigation though! SaveSaveYeah, if you can't go through a brick wall go around it! Look for Obits on her siblings, parents and cousins. Could she have gone back to Galicia? I doubt she would have gone back after all that time - her parents had both passed away, her half sister and many relatives perished in the Holocaust. Plus after the war Poland was part of Eastern Europe. If she went anywhere I think it would have been to Vienna where her brother (my grandfather) was living but as far as I know, she never even visited. I think she did stay in the US - it's just I can't trace her at the moment. SaveSave |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,663
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 17, 2016 18:10:20 GMT
Yeah, if you can't go through a brick wall go around it! Look for Obits on her siblings, parents and cousins. Could she have gone back to Galicia? I doubt she would have gone back after all that time - her parents had both passed away, her half sister and many relatives perished in the Holocaust. Plus after the war Poland was part of Eastern Europe. If she went anywhere I think it would have been to Vienna where her brother (my grandfather) was living but as far as I know, she never even visited. I think she did stay in the US - it's just I can't trace her at the moment. SaveSave What a interesting mystery! So she would have been about 52 in 1940 right? She had never married? |
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 18:15:51 GMT
I doubt she would have gone back after all that time - her parents had both passed away, her half sister and many relatives perished in the Holocaust. Plus after the war Poland was part of Eastern Europe. If she went anywhere I think it would have been to Vienna where her brother (my grandfather) was living but as far as I know, she never even visited. I think she did stay in the US - it's just I can't trace her at the moment. SaveSave What a interesting mystery! So she would have been about 52 in 1940 right? She had never married? No, according to the 1930 and 1940 censuses she was single. And I couldn't find her in the NY index of marriages. I did wonder if she married after 1940 and that's why I can't find her in the SSDI (there are several Roses with the same birth date, a couple of whom were also living in NYC). I'll just keep plugging away and hope one day I can unravel the mystery!! SaveSave |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,663
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 17, 2016 18:20:03 GMT
Have you followed the Wolff family who she was living with in 1930? If they had children, they might still be alive and might remember her.
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 18:56:02 GMT
Have you followed the Wolff family who she was living with in 1930? If they had children, they might still be alive and might remember her. Good idea rodeomom! They did have kids so definitely worth follow up. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 17, 2016 22:06:38 GMT
Just FYI - in this time frame many, many people are not on the SSDI. Social Security only began in 1937, so depending on her work history after then, it's highly, highly likely that she wouldn't be on it. I really haven't found any consistency until the next generation. The 1940 census has some interesting info. It says she's working as a tutor in sculpting - with no income. Pretty unusual for a single person. I did find a short notice at newspapers.com selling a lunchette in Brooklyn in 1930. I agree with the previous poster about fultonpostcards it has some good info.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,663
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 17, 2016 22:11:42 GMT
Just FYI - in this time frame many, many people are not on the SSDI. Social Security only began in 1937, so depending on her work history after then, it's highly, highly likely that she wouldn't be on it. I really haven't found any consistency until the next generation. The 1940 census has some interesting info. It says she's working as a tutor in sculpting - with no income. Pretty unusual for a single person. I did find a short notice at newspapers.com selling a lunchette in Brooklyn in 1930. I agree with the previous poster about fultonpostcards it has some good info. What does that mean "Tutor in Sculpting"? How would she have been living if she had no income? Is she living alone in 1940? |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 17, 2016 22:25:49 GMT
Just FYI - in this time frame many, many people are not on the SSDI. Social Security only began in 1937, so depending on her work history after then, it's highly, highly likely that she wouldn't be on it. I really haven't found any consistency until the next generation. The 1940 census has some interesting info. It says she's working as a tutor in sculpting - with no income. Pretty unusual for a single person. I did find a short notice at newspapers.com selling a lunchette in Brooklyn in 1930. I agree with the previous poster about fultonpostcards it has some good info. What does that mean "Tutor in Sculpting"? How would she have been living if she had no income? Is she living alone in 1940? Exactly. Occuptation tutor industry sculptor - income zero. Doesn't make sense. She's living with a roomer and it does answer yes to income from other sources,but she's renting the house. It's possible she has a relationship with the roomer and he is supporting her - there's definitely something there though - you just don't see single women with no income and not living with family in the 1940s - at least I don't recall ever seeing anything like it. |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,663
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 17, 2016 22:31:10 GMT
What does that mean "Tutor in Sculpting"? How would she have been living if she had no income? Is she living alone in 1940? Exactly. Occuptation tutor industry sculptor - income zero. Doesn't make sense. She's living with a roomer and it does answer yes to income from other sources,but she's renting the house. It's possible she has a relationship with the roomer and he is supporting her - there's definitely something there though - you just don't see single women with no income and not living with family in the 1940s - at least I don't recall ever seeing anything like it. She must have had some kind of income. Maybe a pension? Who is this roomer! That's who I would be looking at. What happened to him. |
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 22:32:59 GMT
What does that mean "Tutor in Sculpting"? How would she have been living if she had no income? Is she living alone in 1940? Exactly. Occuptation tutor industry sculptor - income zero. Doesn't make sense. She's living with a roomer and it does answer yes to income from other sources,but she's renting the house. It's possible she has a relationship with the roomer and he is supporting her - there's definitely something there though - you just don't see single women with no income and not living with family in the 1940s - at least I don't recall ever seeing anything like it. Yes, it's very mysterious. I can understand the not living with family, because she didn't have any close family in NYC - just people who I believe were distant cousins. But it's weird that she's living with the roomer - and at the same address for a while I think. She had been working as a stewardess on trans-Atlantic steamers, then as a restaurant manager (that was her occupation on the 1930 census) but I somehow doubt those made her a lot of money. |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,663
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 17, 2016 22:36:58 GMT
Could she have been the owner of the restaurant?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 17, 2016 22:47:26 GMT
The newspaper article 1930 made her sound like the owner:
LUNCHEONETTE: Guaranteed profitable investment; selling account illness; no sane offer refused. Rose Lauterbach, 2101 Emmons Ave; Sheepshead Bay opposite Pier 5.
Is she related to the Alfred Lauterbach that died in the early 1900s? I stumbled on a few articles about people trying to get a hold of his estate that he'd left to his mother.
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 22:52:41 GMT
Could she have been the owner of the restaurant? I guess that's possible. I'll need to do some more digging. |
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 22:58:16 GMT
The newspaper article 1930 made her sound like the owner: LUNCHEONETTE: Guaranteed profitable investment; selling account illness; no sane offer refused. Rose Lauterbach, 2101 Emmons Ave; Sheepshead Bay opposite Pier 5. Is she related to the Alfred Lauterbach that died in the early 1900s? I stumbled on a few articles about people trying to get a hold of his estate that he'd left to his mother. Thanks Darcy Collins. Will have to check that paper out. Not sure about any connection to that Alfred Lauterbach.
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Post by anniefb on Oct 17, 2016 22:59:32 GMT
So if she'd been a restaurant owner, maybe she was living off the proceeds and doing something she enjoyed? Still odd about the roomer though.
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Post by gramasue on Oct 17, 2016 23:21:44 GMT
What an interesting thread! I have no suggestions on how to carry on your search, but I wish you luck! - "Carry on and Find Aunt Rose"! LOL
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Post by knit.pea on Oct 17, 2016 23:33:11 GMT
Another thought is to look in online city directories. Many were published often
(every year, sometimes), so those can help piece together a timeline.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 17, 2016 23:41:45 GMT
It looks like she definitely owned a restaurant: I found in the 1915;: Polk's New York copartnership and corporation directory: Unique Oyster & Chop House (RTN) (Rose Lauterbach) 68 Columbus Ave. The RTN indicates that the company was registered in the county. I guess it's possible that she made enough money between 1915-1930 to live off of - but this is depression era time. It does look like she stayed in NY - you might try contacting the New York City Historic Society. I'm sure they have newspaper archives.
She seems like an interesting character!
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Oct 17, 2016 23:44:41 GMT
But it's weird that she's living with the roomer - and at the same address for a while I think. Think about this in the time frame of 1940 and how different societal expectations were. Is it a possibility that the roomer was more than a roomer, but called that for appearances sake? Do you have a name of the roomer? Male or Female? Living with someone, but not married would explain the absence of any marriage records. If you have a name of the roomer, that might be an angle to pursue. Save |
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calimom
Shy Member
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Post by calimom on Oct 18, 2016 0:27:02 GMT
FYI, not sure this helps your mystery but I looked up the roomer from the 1940 census (Berge Sarkisian though the first name was transcribed as Beege on the 1940 census) on Ancestry. One of the records for Berge shows that in 1951 Berge still listed that same West 71st St address as a residence. The 1951 record for Berge I'm referring to is a list of in bound (to NYC) passengers, and Berge is 60 and single. Good luck! There are quite a few records for Berge.
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Refupea #39
