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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 0:40:53 GMT
Hmm - just found a death record in NYC index: Rose Lauterbach abt 1889 9 Feb 1921 manhattan
I'd hoped the name was unique enough - but it looks like at least one other with the same name and dob - it's going to be hard to prove which is your Rose. I'm on my phone and don't remember date of naturalization - is it after this date and do you have her actual dob from another source?
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,664
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 18, 2016 0:41:33 GMT
Sounds like a very interesting man as well ! He was from Dardanelles, Turkey. Born (WWII card) Sept. 3, 1890. He worked for Royal Jones-Photo-Engraving Co.
He was still at that address in 1942.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,664
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 18, 2016 0:49:50 GMT
Could this be her: This is where Berge Sarkisian in buried
Rose Sarkissian Birth: unknown Death: Oct. 17, 1946
Burial: Cedar Grove Cemetery Flushing Queens County New York, USA Edit Virtual Cemetery info [?] Created by: T.V.F.T.H. Record added: Aug 01, 2013 Find A Grave Memorial# 114731146
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 0:53:04 GMT
Can someone search the Cedar Grove cemetery in Flushing for a Rose- that's where the roomer is buried - died in 1979 - can't search on phonr
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 0:54:51 GMT
Great minds rodeomom ..,. It's a definite possibility - or she could be the rose that died in 1921.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 1:06:59 GMT
You might order the two death certificates and see if you get lucky and the informant actually knew something when they filled them out. You can order directly thru ancestry - search the New York City death index - Rose Lauterbach in 1921 and Rose Sarkisian in 1946 are both there - sorry I can't link on my phone.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,664
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 18, 2016 1:07:27 GMT
The newspaper article was in 1930, so I don't think she died in 1921. She is listed on the 1930 and 1940 census. In her naturalization records she is listed as Restaurateur.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Oct 18, 2016 1:09:25 GMT
This is absolutely fascinating!
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 1:15:31 GMT
The newspaper article was in 1930, so I don't think she died in 1921. She is listed on the 1930 and 1940 census. In her naturalization records she is listed as Restaurateur. But it could be a totally different Rose - there's at least 2 with same name in Manhattan born in 1888-1889 - with her being single it's hard to say it's her in the census records
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,664
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 18, 2016 1:18:58 GMT
The newspaper article was in 1930, so I don't think she died in 1921. She is listed on the 1930 and 1940 census. In her naturalization records she is listed as Restaurateur. But it could be a totally different Rose - there's at least 2 with same name in Manhattan born in 1888-1889 - with her being single it's hard to say it's her in the census records Yes but the other Rose's are listed as being married. So Lauterbach would not be their maiden name. I love having someone to bounce off genealogy stuff with.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 1:25:42 GMT
But it could be a totally different Rose - there's at least 2 with same name in Manhattan born in 1888-1889 - with her being single it's hard to say it's her in the census records Yes but the other Rose's are listed as being married. So Lauterbach would not be their maiden name. I love having someone to bounce off genealogy stuff with. Where was listed as being married, on the death index? I'm at swim practice searching on my phone - so not ideal!
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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 18, 2016 1:28:21 GMT
Genealogy, for me, is always more fun with a research partner. You guys have done great on Rose.
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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 18, 2016 1:30:36 GMT
I always put any addresses that I have for ancestors into Google Earth and go take a look at what is there now. Sometimes it hasn't changed much.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,664
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 18, 2016 1:34:05 GMT
Yes but the other Rose's are listed as being married. So Lauterbach would not be their maiden name. I love having someone to bounce off genealogy stuff with. Where was listed as being married, on the death index? I'm at swim practice searching on my phone - so not ideal! not listed as married in the death index. I just think that because she is listed as Restaurateur in her Naturalization records, that she would have been the one listed in the newspaper article as the owner of the restaurant. So I don't think she died in 1921.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 1:41:10 GMT
Where was listed as being married, on the death index? I'm at swim practice searching on my phone - so not ideal! not listed as married in the death index. I just think that because she is listed as Restaurateur in her Naturalization records, that she would have been the one listed in the newspaper article as the owner of the restaurant. So I don't think she died in 1921. I don't disagree - but does the op know that the naturalization record is the right Rose? I wasn't sure which info she had confirmed from other sources - i.e. Has absolute correct dob from family records or birth records in Austria vs info that she found that has the right name in the right place. I've found literally thousands of incorrect trees where they assume their Sean O'Reilly in Chicago is their ancestor when in reality it's the wrong guy - or their father must be this famous O'Reilly who fought in Civil War and has 5,000 documents because he's the right age and lives in same county - when in reality their father was some nonfamous dude who lived and died with few if any records.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,664
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Oct 18, 2016 1:59:18 GMT
not listed as married in the death index. I just think that because she is listed as Restaurateur in her Naturalization records, that she would have been the one listed in the newspaper article as the owner of the restaurant. So I don't think she died in 1921. I don't disagree - but does the op know that the naturalization record is the right Rose? I wasn't sure which info she had confirmed from other sources - i.e. Has absolute correct dob from family records or birth records in Austria vs info that she found that has the right name in the right place. I've found literally thousands of incorrect trees where they assume their Sean O'Reilly in Chicago is their ancestor when in reality it's the wrong guy - or their father must be this famous O'Reilly who fought in Civil War and has 5,000 documents because he's the right age and lives in same county - when in reality their father was some nonfamous dude who lived and died with few if any records. Now that I don't know.
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Post by melanell on Oct 18, 2016 2:02:00 GMT
IF the naturalization record is definitely the right one, then I would say that the woman who owned the restaurant is the correct Rose. But we'll need the OP to chime in on that one. Great work, ladies!
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Post by anniefb on Oct 18, 2016 2:27:46 GMT
Great minds rodeomom ..,. It's a definite possibility - or she could be the rose that died in 1921. She was in the 1930 and 1940 censuses so was still around at that point.
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Post by anniefb on Oct 18, 2016 2:36:56 GMT
not listed as married in the death index. I just think that because she is listed as Restaurateur in her Naturalization records, that she would have been the one listed in the newspaper article as the owner of the restaurant. So I don't think she died in 1921. I don't disagree - but does the op know that the naturalization record is the right Rose? I wasn't sure which info she had confirmed from other sources - i.e. Has absolute correct dob from family records or birth records in Austria vs info that she found that has the right name in the right place. I've found literally thousands of incorrect trees where they assume their Sean O'Reilly in Chicago is their ancestor when in reality it's the wrong guy - or their father must be this famous O'Reilly who fought in Civil War and has 5,000 documents because he's the right age and lives in same county - when in reality their father was some nonfamous dude who lived and died with few if any records. The naturalisation records and application for seaman's certificate tie in with the birth information I got from Galician records for Rose. Also the declaration of intent for naturalisation lists the date/ship name for her arrival in NYC and the ship's manifest lists her name along with that of her mother (my g grandmother, right name, right town) who paid for her ticket. So I'm confident this is the right Rose Lauterbach.
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Post by anniefb on Oct 18, 2016 2:39:08 GMT
I always put any addresses that I have for ancestors into Google Earth and go take a look at what is there now. Sometimes it hasn't changed much. I went to visit the apartment building where Rose lived when I was in NYC.
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Post by calgaryscrapper on Oct 18, 2016 2:51:19 GMT
Findagrave.com lists a Berge Sarkissian and this person passed away in 1979. Maybe contact the cemetery and see if they have any records on Berge or Rose and perhaps any relatives.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 3:11:42 GMT
I don't disagree - but does the op know that the naturalization record is the right Rose? I wasn't sure which info she had confirmed from other sources - i.e. Has absolute correct dob from family records or birth records in Austria vs info that she found that has the right name in the right place. I've found literally thousands of incorrect trees where they assume their Sean O'Reilly in Chicago is their ancestor when in reality it's the wrong guy - or their father must be this famous O'Reilly who fought in Civil War and has 5,000 documents because he's the right age and lives in same county - when in reality their father was some nonfamous dude who lived and died with few if any records. The naturalisation records and application for seaman's certificate tie in with the birth information I got from Galician records for Rose. Also the declaration of intent for naturalisation lists the date/ship name for her arrival in NYC and the ship's manifest lists her name along with that of her mother (my g grandmother, right name, right town) who paid for her ticket. So I'm confident this is the right Rose Lauterbach. Awesome - I was dealing with only partial info. I think two Rose Lauterbach's who are restaunteers is too coincidental - so assuming the naturalization, and census records are for the same person makes total sense. If I was a betting woman, I'd guess she married the Bergen Sarkisian as she was living with for at least 5 years based on the 1940 census. And that means she is most likely the Rose Sarkisian who died in 1946 and is buried in the same cemetery of him. I would absolute contact Cedar Grove and find out if they have info - or at the very least if they're actually buried in the same or adjacent plots (find a grave doesn't say) and order her death certificate through ancestry.com
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 18, 2016 3:17:31 GMT
Now that I'm home, I see that the Rose Sarkissian that died in 1946 on the New York Death index actually has a birth date of 1899 (unlike findagrave where it's unknown). There is a Rose Sarkissian that was married to Hrant Sarkisian with that birth date who is also buried at Cedar Grove. We might have jumped the gun on assuming this is your Rose - it's more likely Hrant's wife.
Hmmmm.
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Post by anniefb on Oct 18, 2016 3:39:47 GMT
Now that I'm home, I see that the Rose Sarkissian that died in 1946 on the New York Death index actually has a birth date of 1899 (unlike findagrave where it's unknown). There is a Rose Sarkissian that was married to Hrant Sarkisian with that birth date who is also buried at Cedar Grove. We might have jumped the gun on assuming this is your Rose - it's more likely Hrant's wife. Hmmmm. Still a good angle to follow up though. It's quite possible Berge (sp?) might not have known Rose's birth date. I know a number of the women in my tree didn't give accurate information - for example one g grandmother and one grandmother who always put down they were 5 years younger than they actually were!
I will follow up on Berge to see what else I can find about him.
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Post by anniefb on Oct 18, 2016 3:45:41 GMT
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Post by melanell on Oct 18, 2016 11:15:24 GMT
Now that I'm home, I see that the Rose Sarkissian that died in 1946 on the New York Death index actually has a birth date of 1899 (unlike findagrave where it's unknown). There is a Rose Sarkissian that was married to Hrant Sarkisian with that birth date who is also buried at Cedar Grove. We might have jumped the gun on assuming this is your Rose - it's more likely Hrant's wife. Hmmmm. Still a good angle to follow up though. It's quite possible Berge (sp?) might not have known Rose's birth date. I know a number of the women in my tree didn't give accurate information - for example one g grandmother and one grandmother who always put down they were 5 years younger than they actually were! I have a female relative or two whose records show her constantly getting younger. I also have some who magically got older right around the time they got married (or in the case of males, enlisted), and then they return to their proper age years later. And I read an anecdote once in a genealogy magazine about a set of twins that by the end were showing up on records as 10 years apart in age because one kept her birth date the same throughout and one kept making herself younger! Save
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calimom
Shy Member
Posts: 42
Jul 11, 2014 4:38:17 GMT
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Post by calimom on Oct 18, 2016 19:01:31 GMT
One additional thought/question for OP - did the cousin L Tannenbaum on Ludlow St in NY listed on Rose's 1907 arrival manifest lead you anywhere?
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