erica8
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Dec 21, 2015 15:12:37 GMT
|
Post by erica8 on Nov 3, 2016 7:24:33 GMT
I have a LOT of scrapbooking to catch up on. I was a "scrapbooker" when my children were young...(now ages 21, 18 and 14). So I do have lots of pages completed . I also have a lot of "notes" for pages I want to create (notes that I wrote a long time ago) However....my oldest a few years ago came out as transgender. Now I don't want this to a debate about "transgender children". My "son" and putting that in parenthesis even seems wrong. I should explain. My oldest Lauren, told me in a letter about 4 years ago that she was in fact a he. It was a long letter and went on to say that he thought I would be repulsed, disappointed etc. Well....I was shocked. I saw some signs but not enough. It has been such a hard road for me. I was married to his dad for 12 years (together 18) and we have 3 children, he is the oldest. My other 2 children have adapted well...because all of my children are unbelievably close. The thing for me is....it is still my child. I couldn't ever turn my back or love him any less. I still have trouble sometimes with pronouns when speaking with other people. I still have trouble using his name Liam (he was so kind to keep his initial for his first name and then asked me to pick his middle name...and I did...John after my grandfather). So I could go on and on about the difference in this kid now that he is in the open and yes is getting testosterone therapy (like night and day). My dilemma ..... which sounds I guess petty given the circumstances...but I have not nearly finished scrapbooking his life, and most of the pictures I have are of "Lauren". Lauren who he never feels like he was....and I didn't know any difffernt. I am just looking for some advice. Maybe I make the "pre-Liam" scrapbooks for myself?? I cannot go back and show that I saw this coming...because I didn't...so I don't know if I should even scrapbook it. I know this is heavy and not in the norm. Just looking for someone...maybe there is someone who has experienced something similar? Posting a picture of "before" and "after" because I really am proud of who he has become....but of course still mouring the loss of what I thought was my daughter. Attachments:
|
|
erica8
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Dec 21, 2015 15:12:37 GMT
|
Post by erica8 on Nov 3, 2016 7:37:42 GMT
What I wanted to add is that I have HUNDREDS of pictures "pre-Liam" so any advice is welcome!
|
|
|
Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Nov 3, 2016 9:51:11 GMT
Just looking for someone...maybe there is someone who has experienced something similar? I sent you a personal message.
|
|
msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
|
Post by msliz on Nov 3, 2016 10:29:19 GMT
I would still scrap them. Lauren was your child just as much as Liam is now. They both have a place in your heart and in your books.
|
|
msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
|
Post by msliz on Nov 3, 2016 10:40:30 GMT
I should add that sometimes time helps. DD hated the photos of herself at a certain point in her life. But as she grew older and separated more and more from the child she used to be, and she was able to put that time into the past, the easier it became for her to see those pictures. She was able to face her past easier and eventually love her past self despite the struggles and the unhappiness those pictures represented to her. If Liam isn't there yet, maybe scrap them but don't show him. He can find them when he's ready.
|
|
|
Post by mom on Nov 3, 2016 11:19:39 GMT
No advice other really other than to ask if you have asked Liam how he would like you to proceed with your scrapbooks.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 3:10:34 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 11:53:20 GMT
I just want to say that Liam is a lucky man to have a mom like you--you've loved him no matter what.
If scrapping the photos of Lauren bother him, perhaps write the important details on the back of the pictures and put them in photo albums. And then start new Liam albums. Perhaps this will help you get to know him a little better too since you've had more time with Lauren.
Anyways I say kudos to you for caring and wanting his earlier life documented for him.
|
|
pancakes
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,993
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
|
Post by pancakes on Nov 3, 2016 12:05:38 GMT
No advice other really other than to ask if you have asked Liam how he would like you to proceed with your scrapbooks. I would do this, too. He might see those pictures as what have shaped him to be the person he is now. Or perhaps he doesn't care for them but understands that they are important to you. Maybe you need to explain to him about what they mean to you. In any case, I think you should definitely scrap them because they are important to you and help you celebrate both his past and his present. Props to you for being such an understanding mom.
|
|
|
Post by lisacharlotte on Nov 3, 2016 12:16:48 GMT
I know we all say we're scrapping for our families, but we really scrap for ourselves. What do you want to do? Until Liam declared himself, you had a daughter, Lauren. If there are photos you want to scrap of those times with your daughter, i say scrap them. If after you're gone Liam doesn't want them he'll toss them. But he probably needs to come to that decision with more distance to this huge transition in his life.
|
|
|
Post by grammadee on Nov 3, 2016 12:28:09 GMT
I would still scrap them. Lauren was your child just as much as Liam is now. They both have a place in your heart and in your books. I agree with this. Liam may not be ready to see these pages yet, but in time I think it would be a comfort to know you love him no matter what.
|
|
|
Post by gigi333 on Nov 3, 2016 12:55:01 GMT
I think you should scrap them
If he looks at those photos and doesn't feel it was him now, he might later, it's probably tough for him to get his head around it all.
I'm pretty sure it's tough for you to. My thoughts on it are these are your memories and not even your children get to take them away.
I started scrapping after my best friend passed away, we were inseparable as kids and I really feel like in a lot of ways I lost so many memories because I lost the only person who can share them and remind me of them. I make people take selfies with me all the time now, because after more than 20 years of a really close friendship I only have one photo of us together. Memories are really the most valuable thing we have and I guard mine foercly now
Every picture becomes so valuable when you lose someone and I guess you've kinda lost someone and gained someone all in the one day. I'd definitely scrap my memories. I haven't been through what you have been through, I imagine it's very difficult, my cousin who was my best friend had a brain tumour at 20 another at 30 and another at nearly 31. He changed so much after the first one, and in ways I felt he was another person after his first brain surgery, he was still there but he wasn't, it's not something I can explain. I know people change over time, but this was different. It definitely really changed his personality. I loved him before And I loved him after, but I always missed parts of him that disappeared with that first tumour. Obviously we were extremely lucky that first time, but I did still grieve who he used to be
There are plenty of photos of me where at the time I felt I looked awful, now I would be so happy to be the weight I was then, then I thought I was a hippo!! I'm glad my mom didn't burn all my photos when I wanted her too.
At that time I didn't want to be that person, now I realise I was that person whether I wanted to be or not! I notice my mom doesn't want any pics taken of her and I have been insisting as last year my aunt died and my cousins have barely any photos because she was overweight so refused to get into photos. But the photos are only a moment you see of yourself and you become so critical, what I tell my mom is this is how you look, ether change it or accept it we love you either way and we want you in our memories.
I think for the most part scrapping is an act of love, so it can only be good to have.
I used to think photos of me belonged to me, but I've realised they are other people's memories and my memories are my photos of my family and my friends.
|
|
|
Post by iheartpaper on Nov 3, 2016 13:26:07 GMT
You have a lot of good advice here. Liam is very lucky to have you!
|
|
|
Post by myboysnme on Nov 3, 2016 19:34:09 GMT
Some people scrap their memories for themselves. Some scrap exclusively for others. You gave birth to your daughter, Lauren, and that is who you raised. I think if you scrap for yourself in this case that you can scrap the memories you want the way you want to. Liam may throw the books away or may someday cherish them. But that doesn't matter what Liam wants you to do. It matters what you want to do. You do have to grieve the loss of your oldest daughter at the same time you welcome your son.
|
|
|
Post by jenr on Nov 3, 2016 20:31:51 GMT
I don't have any advice, but I think what other people have said here is really lovely. I hope you can find something that feels right to both you and your son.
|
|
scrappyesq
Pearl Clutcher
You have always been a part of the heist. You're only mad now because you don't like your cut.
Posts: 4,032
Jun 26, 2014 19:29:07 GMT
|
Post by scrappyesq on Nov 4, 2016 2:02:24 GMT
My situation is different from yours but still a huge life change. I have tons of scrapbooks and photos of my family. I no longer speak to any of them, and I don't plan to. I scrap like this year was the first year of my life.
I would scrap Liam from the beginning of his journey. But I would also ask him how comfortable he is with you documenting his story.
And hats off to you mom. Seriously. I know a transgender young lady (25) who has been kicked out of her home and ostracized from her family. It's such a hard thing to go through without family support. I think it is so wonderful that you're even here asking.
|
|
|
Post by Delta Dawn on Nov 4, 2016 2:50:48 GMT
This is new territory for you, Liam and society I am afraid. It's his new normal and while it feels good for him, it might not to you. I would scrap the Lauren photos and love them as much as you love Liam. I mean they are one and the same person. He didn't stop being your baby. Also with time this will get better. It will be second nature for you to love Liam how you loved Lauren and your dreams for Liam will be equal or better than they were for Lauren. It will just take time and fortunately you have time on your side. Society is coming to accept people who aren't cookie cutter perfect. I believe in a few years people will just say, "So" or "And..." and hopefully will stop caring who was born with what sex organs. My hope is by the time Liam is 25 all this will be ancient history.
Sorry about the post. I am very passionate about equal rights for GLBTQ etc. people. I am not one, my son is not one and no one in my family is one, but it's something that I believe in equality about. Just because it doesn't affect me doesn't mean I can't support it.
Eat, scrap and be merry!
|
|
Chinagirl828
Drama Llama
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,486
Jun 28, 2014 6:28:53 GMT
|
Post by Chinagirl828 on Nov 4, 2016 4:24:18 GMT
I don't have any advice, but I think what other people have said here is really lovely. I hope you can find something that feels right to both you and your son. I will second this.
|
|
|
Post by sleepingbooty on Nov 4, 2016 8:43:59 GMT
I might have a slightly different opinion on this subject which is why I feel compelled to add a reply to this thread. Identity is a complex and often too quickly brushed aside aspect of the indiviudal life, mind and wellbeing. While we recognise others may struggle with "who they really are", whether that's related to gender identification, gender attraction or any other aspect of their life, we're often clueless to the kind of torment that they go through and how deeply this shakes and affects them. Becoming oneself is one thing, being completely free of the stigma and difficulties that one went through to get to the point of making such a life-changing decision is another thing. The scars of the identity struggle run extremely deep from what I've read on the subject and witnessed with a friend going through something similar. While I understand the encouragement other scrappers will give you with regards to just using those pictures of Liam from when he was "still" Lauren because they are your memories thus you own some rights over them, I would recommend you use this dilemma as a way to continue connecting with your son. I think he will appreciate you coming to him for council and being open with him, not just asking outsiders because you don't want to bother him with such things or fear hurting his feelings. It doesn't need to be complicated. Just tell him you're itching to scrapbook again, that it's a great moment in your life and that of your children to do so, that you can't imagine not having him in your memory books and that you'd like to know how he feels about it and whether he would prefer that any journaling referring to him back then perhaps already references Liam rather than Lauren. I think the fact that he may look like a girl in the pictures will likely matter a lot less to him than perhaps how to identify him in titles and text accompanying the photographs. I see your situation as a blessing: you get to deepen your understanding of him, of what he went through and come to happy healthy compromises together with him regarding his past as your daughter. Maybe he will be totally fine with being referred to as Lauren and the pronoun "she" back then or maybe he will actually embrace your scrapbooking ways and be thankful that you can and are willing to establish some form of continuity with his true identity by using the correct pronoun and name. Talk to him. He will be touched deep down by your desire to do good by him. Congratulations on being such an accepting and caring mother. And all the best to your brave son!
|
|
|
Post by scrapaddict702 on Nov 4, 2016 15:16:49 GMT
I don't have anything to add (I agree with many of the comments about asking him what he feels comfortable with...but if he doesn't want you to focus on the frilly girly images you might have that mean something to you, feel free to scrap them and keep them away for you), but I will say that you've made things monumentally easier on him by being able to accept him as he is. There aren't enough parents out there welcoming this kind of news with open arms, you're already going full speed in the right direction by not only accepting him as he is, but also in being concerned about his feelings and comfort regarding his life pre-transition.
|
|
mlgallegos
Junior Member
Posts: 80
Jul 15, 2016 1:01:44 GMT
|
Post by mlgallegos on Nov 4, 2016 16:09:33 GMT
You're a really good mom and a lovely person. Liam and your two other children are lucky to have you.
I agree with the answer upthread, about asking him how to proceed. At the very least, you have a good jumping-off point and a good way to start a conversation with him.
|
|
|
Post by woodysbetty on Nov 4, 2016 17:01:55 GMT
I have no advice, just a deep admiration for the depth of your love for your child....unconditional love is truly a rare blessing...take your time walk this path with him awhile the answer will come....hugs!
|
|
|
Post by hopemax on Nov 4, 2016 21:12:42 GMT
My advice is the same that people give anyone struggling with how to start. Start with the moments that are the most memorable, enjoyable, "favorites." Especially, if Liam is willing to participate. Favorite vacation, favorite event, the family stories that everyone brings up and laughs about years after they happened that you have pictures for. Perhaps, in addition to Mom's journaling, Liam would be willing to contribute a journaling block of his own (doesn't have to be for every group of pictures, just the most favorite/memorable moments). A way for Lauren and Liam to exist together, although one is in pictures and one is in words. Or even if he doesn't want to write down anything, you could talk to him and start with, "I asked Liam what his memories of this event were and he said..."
I have no personal experience to draw upon, but I would hope that the act of wanting to scrap his photos, while incorporating and reconciling the old and the new life instead of ignoring/hiding/skipping/treating his pictures different than his siblings (in regards to scrapping them or not) would help the two of you work through the awkwardness in a positive way. One where the pronouns and names matter less than the shared memories of those moments and future moments. Because that's the reason we're scrapping in the first place.
Good luck!
|
|
PaperAngel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,386
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
|
Post by PaperAngel on Nov 5, 2016 1:02:56 GMT
You have a beautiful family! Although without firsthand experience as a transgender teen or his/her parent, I suggest you do not rewrite history. Scrap the photos as though it were the year/age/stage they were taken; the occurrence, emotions, etc of past events did not change whether children become incarcerated, disabled, wealthy, famous, etc. which their parents likely didn't predict. Being born female doesn't define your son, but is part of his story. Best wishes as you continue to capture your children's growth/life in your albums...
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 3:10:34 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 11:31:05 GMT
Be honest. Tell him you have hundreds of pictures you want to scrapbook of his childhood. That the book is for you. Ask him if he would like to work on a scrapbook of pictures of himself as he went from Lauren to Liam. He might really want to do this.
What I tell everyone that their history is important to me and their stories are important to me. I want to protect and cherish those stories because they are beautiful.
|
|
smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,333
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
|
Post by smcast on Nov 7, 2016 16:37:58 GMT
I don't have personal experience with this at all BUT had a friend tell me to scrap pics of my wedding and honeymoon (now divorced) as the moments were then and there. It is still a part of your story so scrap as it was.
|
|
erica8
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Dec 21, 2015 15:12:37 GMT
|
Post by erica8 on Nov 21, 2016 22:10:15 GMT
Wow, so I haven't had a chance to get back here until now. I truly appreciate ALL of your comments and am happy that this did not become a debate. I am very very close with Liam....he came "out" to me first. The other night he came home with a friend and I took out my scrapbooks of him (all Lauren when younger), they both loved looking at them. The friend commented "wow your mom is so cool". I am not interested in being cool, and I did apologize to him after about taking the books out...but he said he loved it!!!!! He isn't ashamed, so I am going to scrap "Lauren" when he was Lauren and go forward from now with Liam. And as far as being a good mom, I appreciate those comments, we all have our moments but I can't speak for any other mothers...other than to say Lauren or Liam...he hasn't changed inside, he is still my child and that is where I know unconditional love exists. Thank you all!!! Much appreciated. It is hard but we are making it work
|
|
|
Post by 950nancy on Nov 21, 2016 23:47:09 GMT
What a great update.
|
|
|
Post by anniefb on Nov 22, 2016 4:08:40 GMT
Love your update!
|
|
|
Post by refugeepea on Nov 24, 2016 0:37:45 GMT
He isn't ashamed, so I am going to scrap "Lauren" when he was Lauren and go forward from now with Liam. And as far as being a good mom, I appreciate those comments, we all have our moments but I can't speak for any other mothers...other than to say Lauren or Liam...he hasn't changed inside, he is still my child and that is where I know unconditional love exists. Thank you for the update! I've struggled scrapping my kids as well because they have challenges others don't. Your post is encouraging.
|
|