Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 12, 2024 14:21:58 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 18:13:47 GMT
link
A little bit about my background. Before I retired I worked in commercial insurance both the company and brokerage side. The last 14 years were spent a with a brokage that has a number of tech and biotech accounts (a couple near and dear to members of this board). When one places the commercial insurance for businesses they get a boat load of information about the operations of that business and their future plans. Over the years working on these guys insurance I noticed a trend developing which others in the office agreed with because it was discussed in meetings as we would try to anticipate the needs of our clients. The trends were that businesses were more interest in investing in technology then the labor force. And the greatest potential for growth for US companies is outside the US which makes these companies more interested in expanding their presence outside the country rather then inside the country. But yet when one listened to the gang running president, on both sides, talk about bringing back those good jobs for the middle class neither of these trends are mentioned. I believe one cannot solve a problem until one identifies the problem to solve. From what I have noticed very little has been written about the jobs lost to technology and will continue to be lost as new technology is discovered. Technolgy does not just impact manufacturing jobs but office jobs as well. And other industries. For decades the Golden Gate Bridge had human toll takers but a couple of years ago they eliminated the position and tolls are collected through technology. As far US companies growth outside the country you can't tell them they can only do business in the US or try and limit their presence outside this country. When I talk about their presence outside this country I'm not talking about call centers. But salesmen, installers/repairmen, warehousing, general offices. Just like any business would havevfor any satellite office in the states. Neither of these job killers were talked about by anybody. I think until we push the politicans on these subjects not much meaningful will get done and the good paying jobs for the middle class and the poor will remain elusive. This article "Can Trump save they're jobs? They're counting on it" by Nelson D Schwartz in the New York Times talks about technology. Also the possible negative impact not only on US workers but consumers as well if Trump creates a trade war in his attempt to bring back those good paying jobs. It also talks about the wages. And raises the question how much increase in the cost of goods and services that will be the result of higher wages will the consumer tolerate. This article, in my opinion, touched on a lot of reasons on why jobs are elusive to some in the middle class. And some of the reasons only the individuals can change and shouldn't expect the government to do it for them. There is some in the article I disagree with, especially with the last part. But I'm going to ignore it because I was happy to finally see someone in the media bring up technolgy as a job killer. I believe Trump and the Republicans are going to fail in keeping Trump's promise for all those beautiful jobs if they stay on their current course. I would say the same about any of the original Reoublican gang, Bernie Sanders, and Hillary.
|
|
back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
|
Post by back to *pea*ality on Nov 13, 2016 18:30:22 GMT
“When President-elect Trump wants to take on these issues, when his goal is to increase the economic security of middle class families, then count me in,” Warren said. “I will push aside our differences, and I will work with him to achieve that goal. I offer to work as hard as I can and to pull in as many people as I can into this effort.” -Elizabeth Warren
"I intend to work with President Trump on those issues where he will, in fact, work for the middle class and working families of this country," Sanders told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "Absolutely we need a new trade policy," Sanders said. "I will work with him to get corporate America to start investing in this country, not just in China and in Mexico." -Bernie Sanders
Hillary Clinton never acknowledged these trade deals hurt the American worker and was ready to sign up for the "gold standard" TPP before Sanders supporters pushed back.
Why don't we wait until after the inauguration and at least the first year to see if things will move in the right direction for those who have had to cobble together several jobs to make ends meet and now can't figure out how to make the mortgage/rent payment and cover the devastating increase in their health care costs.
|
|
|
|
Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 13, 2016 18:35:07 GMT
I agree. Trump has said he will bring back jobs. The trouble IS, he wants to bring back jobs to fix the infrastructure. Which is hard labor jobs. It's NOT middle class techy jobs. It's the building the roads and bridges. It's the techy ones that need the jobs. NOT the menial labor jobs. They can't GET people to do these jobs. That's the problem.
|
|
katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378 
|
Post by katybee on Nov 13, 2016 19:00:23 GMT
You make very valid points. We cannot stop progress. Technology can do so many jobs faster and more efficiently. Jobs of the future will be creating, programming and maintaining this technology, The US is not producing workers to fill these jobs. We are stuck in the past. And, quite frankly, we don't want to do the work it takes to learn these skills. It's math. It's science. It's engineering. It's hard. We are NOT keeping up with other countries in this area. My brother is a software engineer, and he is one of very few American programmers at his company. The rest are from India, China, Korea, etc.
We cannot ""Make America Great Again" by turning back the clock. Those manufacturing and steel-worker and coal-mining and oil field jobs are are NEVER coming back. Never. And we can destroy trade agreements and put huge tariffs on imports and tax companies that move operations overseas. Let me tell you what that's gonna accomplish:
1. Things will cost more. Lots more. American labor is not cheap. Even when companies pay poverty level wages (which they will continue to do), it is WAY more expensive than labor in third-word countries (which we have been happily exploiting for so many years). Why do you think Donald Trump does almost all of his manufacturing overseas?
2. But...but... but it will bring back good jobs, so people will be able to afford higher prices. Yeah, that's funny. Corporations, who are gleeful over these election results, will continue to do everything they can to increase their profit margins--at the expense of the American worker and consumer.
3. Because we put huge tariffs on imports, other countries are going to stop buying our goods, thereby increasing the trade imbalance even more.
I seriously worry for the economic future of the US. I kind of think we're screwed...
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 13, 2016 19:01:33 GMT
I posted about the bringing back jobs issue on other threads already, but I wanted to say that I'm glad you ( krazyscrapper ) brought your insight to this. When I think about the manufacturing jobs that have gone overseas, all you have to do is look at the overwhelming types of jobs those are, who is doing them now and for what wage. Those jobs are simply not coming back. There is no way any to equalize someone sewing clothes or making tennis shoes in a factory in Indonesia for .50 an hour with an American worker doing that same job for even $10-15 an hour (which still isn't a living wage here, IMHO). Even if you raise all kinds of tariffs on imported stuff, lower all kinds of corporate taxes, reduce or eliminate boatloads of regulations, etc. it's not going to be enough to offset how much more the labor will cost to bring those jobs back. The net result will be that prices on everything will go through the roof, because the cheap imported stuff will no longer be cheap, and the domestically made stuff won't be cheap either. The best way to get more people into livable wage jobs is to transition them into skilled positions that cannot be imported or exported, not hoping and praying that large scale manufacturing will come back. ETA: I see katybee and I posted basically the same thing at the same time. I agree 100%. The only ones coming out ahead in that scenario are the corporations and even that's debatable when you consider the long term. |
|
amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,341
|
Post by amom23 on Nov 13, 2016 19:15:12 GMT
You make very valid points. We cannot stop progress. Technology can do so many jobs faster and more efficiently. Jobs of the future will be creating, programming and maintaining this technology, The US is not producing workers to fill these jobs. We are stuck in the past. And, quite frankly, we don't want to do the work it takes to learn these skills. It's math. It's science. It's engineering. It's hard. We are NOT keeping up with other countries in this area. My brother is a software engineer, and he is one of very few American programmers at his company. The rest are from India, China, Korea, etc. We cannot ""Make America Great Again" by turning back the clock. Those manufacturing and steel-worker and coal-mining and oil field jobs are are NEVER coming back. Never. And we can destroy trade agreements and put huge tariffs on imports and tax companies that move operations overseas. Let me tell you what that's gonna accomplish: 1. Things will cost more. Lots more. American labor is not cheap. Even when companies pay poverty level wages (which they will continue to do), it is WAY more expensive than labor in third-word countries (which we have been happily exploiting for so many years). Why do you think Donald Trump does almost all of his manufacturing overseas? 2. But...but... but it will bring back good jobs, so people will be able to afford higher prices. Yeah, that's funny. Corporations, who are gleeful over these election results, will continue to do everything they can to increase their profit margins--at the expense of the American worker and consumer. 3. Because we put huge tariffs on imports, other countries are going to stop buying our goods, thereby increasing the trade imbalance even more. I seriously worry for the economic future of the US. I kind of think we're screwed... This is exactly the conversation DH and I have been having. |
|
|
|
Post by KB on Nov 13, 2016 19:24:20 GMT
I work in tech, we consistently hire and are always looking for new talent. It isn't like tech is some magic thing that just happens, we need tons of qualified workers to make it happen.
|
|
|
|
Post by scrapbookdiva on Nov 13, 2016 19:32:35 GMT
We have seen this phenomenon first hand. My DH owns a logging company and when he started in the early nineties, things were pretty much how it's always been. The tree was cut with a chainsaw. Then the next guy came and cut off the limbs, individually. Then another worker would tie a cable to the log so it can be moved to where a logging truck can pick it up. Now, there is a machine that's called a processor. It cuts a tree down, de-limbs it and places it down in minutes. Where we used to employ 30 people, we now cut twice as much wood with 15 operators. We don't even own a good chainsaw!  Those 15 jobs lost will never come back. And that's just our small company. the numbers of jobs lost to technology, never to be returned, is staggering. |
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 13, 2016 19:34:52 GMT
I agree. Trump has said he will bring back jobs. The trouble IS, he wants to bring back jobs to fix the infrastructure. Which is hard labor jobs. It's NOT middle class techy jobs. It's the building the roads and bridges. It's the techy ones that need the jobs. NOT the menial labor jobs. They can't GET people to do these jobs. That's the problem. Especially because these workers (construction/laborers) are the ones he routinely screws out of paying. With his vengeful demeanor, I wouldn't be surprised if he's just trying to replace the pool of workers since people know what he's all about and won't do work with him! |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 12, 2024 14:21:58 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 19:43:17 GMT
I work in tech, we consistently hire and are always looking for new talent. It isn't like tech is some magic thing that just happens, we need tons of qualified workers to make it happen. Depending on what the technology it is ultimately it could eliminate jobs for others. I'm not saying it's a bad thing it's just that is the way it is. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 12, 2024 14:21:58 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 19:43:40 GMT
People don't seem to be able to reconcile themselves to the fact that wages and benefits are the enemies of profits. Jobs have gone overseas to workers w/dirt wages and no benefits (and no environmental regs) while companies like GE post BILLIONS in profits and most pay 0-8% in corp taxes (not the 35% posted corp tax rate, that's for suckers who don't buy legislators to put loopholes into the tax laws).
In my mind, the way to put millions of middle class workers to work is to tax the wealthy at a much higher marginal rates so that money over $5million is taxed higher and money over $25million even more, etc. Then put that money to work in the US ECONOMY by hiring nursing care, law enforcement, water pollution inspection, bridge builders etc. As it sits now, that money that is not taxed is paid out as profits/dividends to shareholders all over the world and much of it ends up in Villas in the Swiss Alps, penthouses in Macao, yachts in the Caymans, etc.
That money does far more good staying in the local (US) economy and putting people to work than it does as worldwide profits that benefit largely the already wealthy to become even wealthier.
|
|
|
|
Post by femalebusiness on Nov 13, 2016 19:44:02 GMT
I work in tech, we consistently hire and are always looking for new talent. It isn't like tech is some magic thing that just happens, we need tons of qualified workers to make it happen. That is why corporations are hiring foreigners, we don't have enough qualified, educated workers in this country. People want to be paid thirty or forty dollars an hour to put a screw in a hole on an assembly line. Those days are dead and gone and they aren't coming back. |
|
moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,186
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
|
Post by moodyblue on Nov 13, 2016 20:02:55 GMT
I posted about some of this the other day. We will never have the huge number of manufacturing jobs this country used to have. Those days are gone and not coming back. My personal example: my husband has worked in IT for 25 years with one company. At one point they had about 240 employees. The business has grown in terms of the revenue but employment is down to around 140; newer equipment requires fewer employees to do the work and more product produced electronically instead of in paper form represents a shift in the demand. And since business is "soft" and the company focus is on the bottom line of profitability, my husband and others are currently on layoff (he's been there longer and was paid more than others in the IT department so he was the first to get cut). It's unlikely that he'll get recalled and if he did it would most likely be at much lower pay/different job description (luckily  , he can retire since he's 62, and then look for a part time job). We just heard about others in the department who have recently given notice so they must be really short of personnel, but the new way is to try to do more work with fewer people, so the load demand will probably just increase again for the remaining personnel. |
|
casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,475
|
Post by casii on Nov 13, 2016 20:03:16 GMT
My cousin posted that article this morning on facebook. I agree that until Mexican wages & benefits become the equivalent of American workers, a stiff import tax will do nothing to keep Carrier in America and we all know that's not going to happen.
The jobs solution will probably be a far more simple & elegant solution. What that is, I don't know. It's not my area of expertise.
I know many people do go to school to learn a skilled trade (dang, some days I think I'm in the wrong business when I have to have a plumber or electrician come in, $$$). When forestry was no longer an option for my father, he learned to be a commercial truck driver. But to think we're going to entice, convince, tax, tariff and bully corporations into continuing the status quo at the expense to the shareholder profits, is a pipe dream. I got blasted for that response by a few family members. Apparently living within a couple of hours of the coast now means I'm automatically a communist. Breathe in, breathe out...
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 13, 2016 20:21:17 GMT
People don't seem to be able to reconcile themselves to the fact that wages and benefits are the enemies of profits. Jobs have gone overseas to workers w/dirt wages and no benefits (and no environmental regs) while companies like GE post BILLIONS in profits and most pay 0-8% in corp taxes (not the 35% posted corp tax rate, that's for suckers who don't buy legislators to put loopholes into the tax laws). In my mind, the way to put millions of middle class workers to work is to tax the wealthy at a much higher marginal rates so that money over $5million is taxed higher and money over $25million even more, etc. Then put that money to work in the US ECONOMY by hiring nursing care, law enforcement, water pollution inspection, bridge builders etc. As it sits now, that money that is not taxed is paid out as profits/dividends to shareholders all over the world and much of it ends up in Villas in the Swiss Alps, penthouses in Macao, yachts in the Caymans, etc. That money does far more good staying in the local (US) economy and putting people to work than it does as worldwide profits that benefit largely the already wealthy to become even wealthier. I wish I could like this more than once. In my state, our current governor ran on the platform of raising taxes on the wealthy and he won. He was able to do it, and in a very short time was able to completely eliminate a several years long deficit, got busy fixing our roads and bridges (and many long unemployed people like my brother have been put back to work in good paying, stable jobs), the state repaid money that had been borrowed from the schools in a tax shift by the previous governor (who was never able to repay it with his 'no taxes' pledge) and IIRC our local economy has rebounded faster than the national average from the recession. So as unpopular as that would be to people who would be taxed higher, it has seemed to work here. All of those people who are now employed are putting that money right back into the local economy and that's got to be a big part of the rebound. |
|
|
|
Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Nov 13, 2016 20:25:38 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ntsf on Nov 13, 2016 20:26:51 GMT
california has been taxing the rich more..and there is more money for schools.. we still have long term deficit, but the economy and budget are getting better.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 12, 2024 14:21:58 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 20:48:25 GMT
People don't seem to be able to reconcile themselves to the fact that wages and benefits are the enemies of profits. Jobs have gone overseas to workers w/dirt wages and no benefits (and no environmental regs) while companies like GE post BILLIONS in profits and most pay 0-8% in corp taxes (not the 35% posted corp tax rate, that's for suckers who don't buy legislators to put loopholes into the tax laws). In my mind, the way to put millions of middle class workers to work is to tax the wealthy at a much higher marginal rates so that money over $5million is taxed higher and money over $25million even more, etc. Then put that money to work in the US ECONOMY by hiring nursing care, law enforcement, water pollution inspection, bridge builders etc. As it sits now, that money that is not taxed is paid out as profits/dividends to shareholders all over the world and much of it ends up in Villas in the Swiss Alps, penthouses in Macao, yachts in the Caymans, etc. That money does far more good staying in the local (US) economy and putting people to work than it does as worldwide profits that benefit largely the already wealthy to become even wealthier. I wish I could like this more than once. In my state, our current governor ran on the platform of raising taxes on the wealthy and he won. He was able to do it, and in a very short time was able to completely eliminate a several years long deficit, got busy fixing our roads and bridges (and many long unemployed people like my brother have been put back to work in good paying, stable jobs), the state repaid money that had been borrowed from the schools in a tax shift by the previous governor (who was never able to repay it with his 'no taxes' pledge) and IIRC our local economy has rebounded faster than the national average from the recession. So as unpopular as that would be to people who would be taxed higher, it has seemed to work here. All of those people who are now employed are putting that money right back into the local economy and that's got to be a big part of the rebound. In my opinion this is only a temporary fix. Ultimately all the bridges and roads will be fixed. Then what? Don't get me wrong our infrastructure needs to be fixed and updated. But I don't believe you can build an economy around it long term. Without an answer to "then what" it's just a way of kicking the can down the road. |
|
|
|
Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Nov 13, 2016 21:02:21 GMT
I have to admit that I think about this topic a lot. We are still in the infant stages of a Technological Revolution. During the Industrial Revolution, workers used to throw their hand tools into the new machinery that replaced them as a way to try to stop progress and from losing their jobs. Trump is what they are throwing now (they threw him into the White House like a human Molotav cocktail - thank you, Michael Moore, for that term).
IF technology is allowed to progress, what is the end game? Will everything be automated? Remember the movie "Wall-E" where humans moved on floating chairs and had forgotten how to walk?
If that is the end game, most jobs will be eliminated. The Elon Musk/Tesla way is "show me how to eliminate your job, and I will give you another job. A better job. A more interesting job." While other companies just eliminate people and that's that. Will we have to have universal basic income? Will there be a return to arts and sciences and enjoyable leisure time, or will Americans just sit around on our fat asses and continue to throw hissy fits and molotav cocktails into office?
I now struggle with this topic when trying to guide my son through school and into a good career. STEM was all the rage up until a week ago. But now what? When our government brings back all the jobs from overseas and realizes that technology was the real problem, will they tell companies to stop advancing technology and stop automating? Will there be a war on engineers? My son so far loves math and science, loves FIRST Robotics, and wants to go to Space Camp every year, but maybe he is now on the wrong path. Maybe I should tell him to just be a loud, obnoxious, offensive and orange Reality TV star.
All I know for sure is that manufacturing activity is at record highs in this country and yet we are doing it with half the people. Mexico and China are not the problem. Technology is the "problem". Progress and intellect are no longer valued in this country. I need to remember that.
And I'm now at the point now where I feel like "fuck the workers". Replace as many of those dumb fucks as we can.
Oops. My anger slipped out again.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Nov 13, 2016 21:07:47 GMT
I wish I could like this more than once. In my state, our current governor ran on the platform of raising taxes on the wealthy and he won. He was able to do it, and in a very short time was able to completely eliminate a several years long deficit, got busy fixing our roads and bridges (and many long unemployed people like my brother have been put back to work in good paying, stable jobs), the state repaid money that had been borrowed from the schools in a tax shift by the previous governor (who was never able to repay it with his 'no taxes' pledge) and IIRC our local economy has rebounded faster than the national average from the recession. So as unpopular as that would be to people who would be taxed higher, it has seemed to work here. All of those people who are now employed are putting that money right back into the local economy and that's got to be a big part of the rebound. In my opinion this is only a temporary fix. Ultimately all the bridges and roads will be fixed. Then what? Don't get me wrong our infrastructure needs to be fixed and updated. But I don't believe you can build an economy around it long term. Without an answer to "then what" it's just a way of kicking the can down the road. ITA that the infrastructure jobs are just temporary, except for the workers on The Wall. We will build it, Mexicans & Central Americans will tear it down, we will rebuild it, Mexicans & Central Amerians will tear it down, lather, rinse, repeat. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 12, 2024 14:21:58 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 21:19:28 GMT
In my opinion this is only a temporary fix. Ultimately all the bridges and roads will be fixed. Then what? Don't get me wrong our infrastructure needs to be fixed and updated. But I don't believe you can build an economy around it long term. Without an answer to "then what" it's just a way of kicking the can down the road. ITA that the infrastructure jobs are just temporary, except for the workers on The Wall. We will build it, Mexicans & Central Americans will tear it down, we will rebuild it, Mexicans & Central Amerians will tear it down, lather, rinse, repeat. Problem is I heard yesterday that an "unnamed " Trump staffer has said no wall. It was just a campaign ploy. Or something like that. Now if it's true ..... Besides if they did build the wall the folks down south would just build a tunnel under it. They are building tunnels now and from what I have seen on the news they do a pretty good job. |
|
|
|
Post by beanbuddymom on Nov 13, 2016 21:25:32 GMT
I'm pretty sure my job isn't coming back as a medical transcriptionist. Right now I spend 98% of my time working on nonmedical accounts and a rare 2% for a doctor that refuses to use the EMR and doesnt want his office 100% EMR (we are basically used as emergency backup is all) and that is the one and only reason I am still employed medically. All my years of training and experience means nothing and you can't turn back the hands of time and un-Do the EMR that President Obama put into action so that each and every office now is required to use this, putting us out of a job. My job will never be brought back because of technology, I basically had to refocus and find something different to do for work.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 13, 2016 21:27:29 GMT
I wish I could like this more than once. In my state, our current governor ran on the platform of raising taxes on the wealthy and he won. He was able to do it, and in a very short time was able to completely eliminate a several years long deficit, got busy fixing our roads and bridges (and many long unemployed people like my brother have been put back to work in good paying, stable jobs), the state repaid money that had been borrowed from the schools in a tax shift by the previous governor (who was never able to repay it with his 'no taxes' pledge) and IIRC our local economy has rebounded faster than the national average from the recession. So as unpopular as that would be to people who would be taxed higher, it has seemed to work here. All of those people who are now employed are putting that money right back into the local economy and that's got to be a big part of the rebound. In my opinion this is only a temporary fix. Ultimately all the bridges and roads will be fixed. Then what? Don't get me wrong our infrastructure needs to be fixed and updated. But I don't believe you can build an economy around it long term. Without an answer to "then what" it's just a way of kicking the can down the road. Hmm, I don't honestly know. It's a big country and there is a lot of infrastructure that's been ignored for a long time, and things need to be maintained once they're fixed or we'll end up right back where we are now. Beyond that, there are all kinds of critical issues that are needing public financial support, and all those things can be supported when there are more people working and paying taxes. I should add that when our governor was running all of his detractors were warning, "If he gets elected, all the rich people and the corporations will move and take their money and jobs with them!" You know what? They overwhelmingly STAYED. The jobs stayed. The money stayed. A rising tide lifts all boats, at least here it has. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 12, 2024 14:21:58 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 22:37:01 GMT
I wish I could like this more than once. In my state, our current governor ran on the platform of raising taxes on the wealthy and he won. He was able to do it, and in a very short time was able to completely eliminate a several years long deficit, got busy fixing our roads and bridges (and many long unemployed people like my brother have been put back to work in good paying, stable jobs), the state repaid money that had been borrowed from the schools in a tax shift by the previous governor (who was never able to repay it with his 'no taxes' pledge) and IIRC our local economy has rebounded faster than the national average from the recession. So as unpopular as that would be to people who would be taxed higher, it has seemed to work here. All of those people who are now employed are putting that money right back into the local economy and that's got to be a big part of the rebound. In my opinion this is only a temporary fix. Ultimately all the bridges and roads will be fixed. Then what? Don't get me wrong our infrastructure needs to be fixed and updated. But I don't believe you can build an economy around it long term. Without an answer to "then what" it's just a way of kicking the can down the road. Absolutely not. There are decades of backlog on infrastructure. And here's the dirty little secret of life - it tends toward disrepair. So after you fix everything for decades, you go right back to the beginning and start again. Not to mention there will always be the sick, elderly and dying (sadly) which we can nurse better. There will always be ways to hire add'l teachers for the young. Etc. So, have it whatever way you want. Either the money that is made, over and above the cost of goods/services, can go mostly to profits or can be split more evenly to profits and taxes. The former means that that money has no allegiance to any economy and goes wherever the shareholder (foreign or domestic) puts it. The latter means that that money STAYS in the local economy hiring people to do good jobs at good wages. I go w/option B. But that's me. |
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Nov 13, 2016 22:52:43 GMT
People don't seem to be able to reconcile themselves to the fact that wages and benefits are the enemies of profits. Jobs have gone overseas to workers w/dirt wages and no benefits (and no environmental regs) while companies like GE post BILLIONS in profits and most pay 0-8% in corp taxes (not the 35% posted corp tax rate, that's for suckers who don't buy legislators to put loopholes into the tax laws). In my mind, the way to put millions of middle class workers to work is to tax the wealthy at a much higher marginal rates so that money over $5million is taxed higher and money over $25million even more, etc. Then put that money to work in the US ECONOMY by hiring nursing care, law enforcement, water pollution inspection, bridge builders etc. As it sits now, that money that is not taxed is paid out as profits/dividends to shareholders all over the world and much of it ends up in Villas in the Swiss Alps, penthouses in Macao, yachts in the Caymans, etc. That money does far more good staying in the local (US) economy and putting people to work than it does as worldwide profits that benefit largely the already wealthy to become even wealthier. There is a differing school of thought. That says if you pay your employees well, and you give them the opportunity to solve business problems (ie. increase profits) and you take care of them (ie. benefits) Your business will prosper. Here are some examples. www.inc.com/magazine/201511/paul-keegan/does-more-pay-mean-more-growth.htmlwww.forbes.com/sites/stevecooper/2012/07/30/make-more-money-by-making-your-employees-happy/#79f222487223www.newsweek.com/ten-reasons-workers-should-be-paid-more-300212There are new ways of thinking, the old ... cut wages to increase profits.. just isn't the only way anymore. We need to open up our thinking to see things differently and acknowledge there are other models that do work. |
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Nov 13, 2016 22:55:07 GMT
ITA that the infrastructure jobs are just temporary, except for the workers on The Wall. We will build it, Mexicans & Central Americans will tear it down, we will rebuild it, Mexicans & Central Amerians will tear it down, lather, rinse, repeat. Problem is I heard yesterday that an "unnamed " Trump staffer has said no wall. It was just a campaign ploy. Or something like that. Now if it's true ..... Besides if they did build the wall the folks down south would just build a tunnel under it. They are building tunnels now and from what I have seen on the news they do a pretty good job.I ask this seriously, what would the wall have to look like to actually be a deterrent? How high, how thick and how deep.. and we are talking about a 2,000 mile border... how much is it going to cost? I have looked and not seen any figures on this. I would love to know if anyone actually has a plan. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 12, 2024 14:21:58 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 23:02:08 GMT
There is a differing school of thought. That says if you pay your employees well, and you give them the opportunity to solve business problems (ie. increase profits) and you take care of them (ie. benefits) Your business will prosper. We're not doing that though, in numbers large enough to matter. That's why so many are out of work. Their jobs are downsized, outsourced, automated and off-shored so profits and wealth can go through the roof for a small number of people. That's what we've been doing for 50 years and it's not showing any signs of stopping. In fact, w/a big move to automate transportation, we're likely to put tens of thousands more truck and delivery drivers out of work over the next 10-15 years. It's a great theory, but the US is moving in the opposite direction and the number of jobless will continue to grow. |
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Nov 13, 2016 23:14:24 GMT
There is a differing school of thought. That says if you pay your employees well, and you give them the opportunity to solve business problems (ie. increase profits) and you take care of them (ie. benefits) Your business will prosper. We're not doing that though, in numbers large enough to matter. That's why so many are out of work. Their jobs are downsized, outsourced, automated and off-shored so profits and wealth can go through the roof for a small number of people. That's what we've been doing for 50 years and it's not showing any signs of stopping. In fact, w/a big move to automate transportation, we're likely to put tens of thousands more truck and delivery drivers out of work over the next 10-15 years. It's a great theory, but the US is moving in the opposite direction and the number of jobless will continue to grow. What profitable, companies that are around for a long long time are able to do is manage the change in technology and change their business to meet the demands of a changing market. They can retrain employees to work in new jobs that don't exist today, if the company is open to employee innovation they can often make great shifts without huge layoffs. Many companies have done it. Three that come to mind Nokia, Amazon, Proctor and Gamble. This is not a great theory. It has been practiced by companies for generations. When all a company focuses on is the bottom line, they miss the opportunity to change, adapt and grow and then the technology has left them so far behind they can no longer compete. |
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Nov 13, 2016 23:16:33 GMT
There is a differing school of thought. That says if you pay your employees well, and you give them the opportunity to solve business problems (ie. increase profits) and you take care of them (ie. benefits) Your business will prosper. We're not doing that though, in numbers large enough to matter. That's why so many are out of work. Their jobs are downsized, outsourced, automated and off-shored so profits and wealth can go through the roof for a small number of people. That's what we've been doing for 50 years and it's not showing any signs of stopping. In fact, w/a big move to automate transportation, we're likely to put tens of thousands more truck and delivery drivers out of work over the next 10-15 years. It's a great theory, but the US is moving in the opposite direction and the number of jobless will continue to grow. I think what we probably agree on is that these lost jobs are not coming back. No one is going to bring manufacturing back to the US. The "rust belt" will not become the mass producer of consumer goods. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 12, 2024 14:21:58 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 23:29:43 GMT
We're not doing that though, in numbers large enough to matter. That's why so many are out of work. Their jobs are downsized, outsourced, automated and off-shored so profits and wealth can go through the roof for a small number of people. That's what we've been doing for 50 years and it's not showing any signs of stopping. In fact, w/a big move to automate transportation, we're likely to put tens of thousands more truck and delivery drivers out of work over the next 10-15 years. It's a great theory, but the US is moving in the opposite direction and the number of jobless will continue to grow. I think what we probably agree on is that these lost jobs are not coming back. No one is going to bring manufacturing back to the US. The "rust belt" will not become the mass producer of consumer goods. Actually the manufacturing jobs are coming back. But a lot are going to right to work states which means non-union. In these states the average wage is about $11 an hour with few benefits. And there are fewer jobs because of technology. I think it was Forbes who did a story on it last year. I posted a while back. I'll look and see if I can find it. But I agree there will never be the number there were. |
|
, he can retire since he's 62, and then look for a part time job). We just heard about others in the department who have recently given notice so they must be really short of personnel, but the new way is to try to do more work with fewer people, so the load demand will probably just increase again for the remaining personnel.
