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Post by jenjie on Nov 14, 2016 23:40:18 GMT
DS11 has this question in his spelling book that neither Mom, nor HS junior or senior siblings can make heads or tails of. I'm good with writing a post it note that says I don't understand the question but happily, ds doesn't want to disappoint the teacher!  Can somebody explain this to me? "How does the spelling of the regular vowel sound in the last syllable of the base word help you spell the missing syllable (underlined here) in the related word?" combine / com bination compose / com position determine / deter mination Thanks!! 11/19 there is no update, we never heard from the teacher and she never addressed it with the class. So I am still clueless. 😜 |
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AmeliaBloomer
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 14, 2016 23:44:08 GMT
DS11 has this question in his spelling book that neither Mom, nor HS junior or senior siblings can make heads or tails of. I'm good with writing a post it note that says I don't understand the question but happily, ds doesn't want to disappoint the teacher! Can somebody explain this to me? "How does the spelling of the regular vowel sound in the last syllable of the base word help you spell the missing syllable (underlined here) in the related word?" combine / com bination compose / com position determine / deter mination Thanks!! That's neither logical nor...you know...English. |
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Post by mikewozowski on Nov 14, 2016 23:48:13 GMT
the last vowel is the same as it is in the base word.
maybe that is what they are looking for? but idk.
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kate
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Post by kate on Nov 14, 2016 23:49:35 GMT
The underlined syllables have a "schwa" sound, which is a neutral, unemphasized vowel sound whose spelling is hard to identify just by listening. The base words (the first of each pair) have a clear stressed vowel sound in that position - e.g. the I in "combine" is a long I sound, so easy to spell. In "combination," the first I has almost an "uh" sound, so the spelling is hard. If you know that "combination" is from "combine," then you know it's spelled with an I in the middle. That said, I don't get the third pair, unless in your part of the country they pronounce "determine" as "deterMINE" That's all I've got.  |
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Post by anxiousmom on Nov 14, 2016 23:52:06 GMT
Dear Teacher,
I love how you are so enthusiastic about teaching the children how to reason out word pronunciation, it's a valuable skill to have. However, no matter how much parsing I do, this question makes no damn sense.
Sincerely,
A parent who wants to help with homework when needed but feels like she needs her own help with vocabulary homework
(lol)
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
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Post by scrapngranny on Nov 14, 2016 23:54:27 GMT
....or, huh???
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 15, 2016 0:01:19 GMT
This must have some regional variation. I would agree that some might pronounce combination - comination - really deemphasizing the bin to the point it's silent. I'd even say I've heard determination slurred together to be almost unheard - but it's not silent in my American dialect. This theory breaks down with composition - I've never heard this word pronounced without the "pos" If in your area composition is pronounced more like comosition - I think the teacher is trying to say if you go back to the "base" of the word, you can decipher the syllable that isn't emphasized in the word.
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Post by jenjie on Nov 15, 2016 0:01:39 GMT
You guys are the best! I read all of your responses to ds (editing yours, anxiousmom ) and he insists he doesn't want to let her down, but is considering writing that none of the peas and nobody in our house understands the question. LOL |
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Post by jenjie on Nov 15, 2016 0:03:19 GMT
This must have some regional variation. I would agree that some might pronounce combination - comination - really deemphasizing the bin to the point it's silent. I'd even say I've heard determination slurred together to be almost unheard - but it's not silent in my American dialect. This theory breaks down with composition - I've never heard this word pronounced without the "pos" If in your area composition is pronounced more like comosition - I think the teacher is trying to say if you go back to the "base" of the word, you can decipher the syllable that isn't emphasized in the word. No we're in NJ but the curriculum isn't. This isn't a teacher-made question. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Nov 15, 2016 0:03:51 GMT
You guys are the best! I read all of your responses to ds (editing yours, anxiousmom ) and he insists he doesn't want to let her down, but is considering writing that none of the peas and nobody in our house understands the question. LOL *blush* Yes, please edit me. I sometimes forget the rest of the world doesn't want to hear my potty mouth. lol |
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Post by monklady123 on Nov 15, 2016 0:03:54 GMT
DS11 has this question in his spelling book that neither Mom, nor HS junior or senior siblings can make heads or tails of. I'm good with writing a post it note that says I don't understand the question but happily, ds doesn't want to disappoint the teacher! Can somebody explain this to me? "How does the spelling of the regular vowel sound in the last syllable of the base word help you spell the missing syllable (underlined here) in the related word?" combine / com bination compose / com position determine / deter mination Thanks!! I think it's supposed to be the "silent 'e' at the end makes the vowel say its name" rule for the first words, then in the second word that same vowel is pronounced as a short vowel. So if you're not sure if "combination" is "combonation" or "combanation" or "combination" you'll know it's an "i" because "combine" tells you that by how you pronounce it. However... I've never heard "determine" pronounced "deterMINE" with a long "i". Do you live where it's pronounced that way? We actually teach "determine" as an exception to the "vowel/consonant/silent e" rule. |
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kate
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Location: The city that doesn't sleep
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Post by kate on Nov 15, 2016 0:11:11 GMT
This must have some regional variation. I would agree that some might pronounce combination - comination - really deemphasizing the bin to the point it's silent. I wasn't saying it's silent, but rather that it no longer sounds like an I. Some people with precise pronunciation might say com-bih-nay-shun, many people say com-buh-nay-shun. Same with "composition" - we say com-puh-zih-shun, not com-poze-ih-shun. It's those "uh" sounds that are tricky. ...Or maybe you weren't referring to my post at all.  I'm a language and diction geek, so I love this stuff! |
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Post by jenjie on Nov 15, 2016 0:20:46 GMT
You guys are the best! I read all of your responses to ds (editing yours, anxiousmom ) and he insists he doesn't want to let her down, but is considering writing that none of the peas and nobody in our house understands the question. LOL *blush* Yes, please edit me. I sometimes forget the rest of the world doesn't want to hear my potty mouth. LOL LOL I thought it was funny but didn't necessarily want to say it to my preteen.  |
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Post by jenjie on Nov 15, 2016 0:23:22 GMT
I think it's supposed to be the "silent 'e' at the end makes the vowel say its name" rule for the first words, then in the second word that same vowel is pronounced as a short vowel. So if you're not sure if "combination" is "combonation" or "combanation" or "combination" you'll know it's an "i" because "combine" tells you that by how you pronounce it. However... I've never heard "determine" pronounced "deterMINE" with a long "i". Do you live where it's pronounced that way? We actually teach "determine" as an exception to the "vowel/consonant/silent e" rule. No I don't! And I still don't get it but it seems to make sense to ds. Go figure. Thanks. |
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Post by idahopea on Nov 15, 2016 0:23:25 GMT
I think it is simpler than when I first looked at it. I think if you know how to spell the first word, then you use the same letter in the 2nd syllable for the second word no matter how you pronounce it in the second word. Hope that makes sense.
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Post by jenjie on Nov 15, 2016 0:34:32 GMT
I think it is simpler than when I first looked at it. I think if you know how to spell the first word, then you use the same letter in the 2nd syllable for the second word no matter how you pronounce it in the second word. Hope that makes sense. That makes sense to me but it seems obvious. And the question is a really convoluted way to get there. |
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Post by kenziekeeper on Nov 15, 2016 0:43:18 GMT
I think it's supposed to be the "silent 'e' at the end makes the vowel say its name" rule for the first words, then in the second word that same vowel is pronounced as a short vowel. So if you're not sure if "combination" is "combonation" or "combanation" or "combination" you'll know it's an "i" because "combine" tells you that by how you pronounce it. However... I've never heard "determine" pronounced "deterMINE" with a long "i". Do you live where it's pronounced that way? We actually teach "determine" as an exception to the "vowel/consonant/silent e" rule. No I don't! And I still don't get it but it seems to make sense to ds. Go figure. Thanks. Teacher agreeing here! |
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Post by melanell on Nov 15, 2016 1:27:17 GMT
I agree that the answer is very likely that if you forget how to spell the longer related word, recalling the base word might help. But I also agree, that if that indeed is the correct answer, that "determination" is a poor example to use in the question.
Because "determine" doesn't follow the "silent e" rule, I can see kids misspelling it if they pronounce the last syllable slightly differently than a true rhyme with "pin". I can definitely imagine someone pronouncing it "determun" instead, for instance, in which case they would then spell the related word as "determunation". Making the whole exercise not all that helpful in the case of this particular word.
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Post by jenjie on Nov 15, 2016 1:41:45 GMT
No I don't! And I still don't get it but it seems to make sense to ds. Go figure. Thanks. Teacher agreeing here! You agree with me or monklady? LOL |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 15, 2016 2:36:12 GMT
This must have some regional variation. I would agree that some might pronounce combination - comination - really deemphasizing the bin to the point it's silent. I wasn't saying it's silent, but rather that it no longer sounds like an I. Some people with precise pronunciation might say com-bih-nay-shun, many people say com-buh-nay-shun. Same with "composition" - we say com-puh-zih-shun, not com-poze-ih-shun. It's those "uh" sounds that are tricky. ...Or maybe you weren't referring to my post at all. I'm a language and diction geek, so I love this stuff! I was actually referencing the op. |
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Post by idahopea on Nov 19, 2016 19:13:04 GMT
I've been wondering if your ds found out the correct answer to this question....?
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Post by scrapmaven on Nov 19, 2016 20:49:25 GMT
I'm another stumped pea. Post it note or bust.
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Post by jenjie on Nov 19, 2016 21:19:39 GMT
I've been wondering if your ds found out the correct answer to this question....? We never heard anything from the teacher! He said she didn't address it with the class either. |
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Post by 950nancy on Nov 19, 2016 22:40:57 GMT
I've been wondering if your ds found out the correct answer to this question....? We never heard anything from the teacher! He said she didn't address it with the class either. I often told my classes that the only difference between me and the kids was that I had the teacher's manual. I swear, some of the questions that are asked in a manual are so dang confusing. Once in a while in math, I had to give the kids the answer and we worked backwards to try to figure things out. I will say it built up our perseverance skills. |
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Post by jenjie on Nov 19, 2016 23:20:20 GMT
We never heard anything from the teacher! He said she didn't address it with the class either. I often told my classes that the only difference between me and the kids was that I had the teacher's manual. I swear, some of the questions that are asked in a manual are so dang confusing. Once in a while in math, I had to give the kids the answer and we worked backwards to try to figure things out. I will say it built up our perseverance skills. I believe it! 😂 |
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Post by lucyg on Nov 19, 2016 23:32:15 GMT
Several times in 2nd grade, we've had homework come home that no one (includes the 7yo = great student; me = writer/editor with decent English skills; DS = bit of a math whiz) can really understand what she's looking for. It's always printed materials from some teaching system, not something she wrote herself.
Every time I send a sticky note saying we don't get it, and every time she writes back No Worries! We Aren't Really Focusing on That, Anyway!
d'oh.
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Post by jenjie on Nov 20, 2016 0:26:39 GMT
Ugh lucyg! His teacher is usually pretty good about not making them do every single problem but I would think something that doesn't make sense would be a good one to tell the class to skip. |
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Post by idahopea on Nov 20, 2016 5:47:16 GMT
Thanks for the update! Looks like we will never know the answer. I bet some of the kids were wondering too.
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Post by jenjie on Nov 21, 2016 15:49:27 GMT
Thanks for the update! Looks like we will never know the answer. I bet some of the kids were wondering too. Or their parents 😂 |
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PaperAngel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Nov 21, 2016 17:15:28 GMT
Thanks for the update! Looks like we will never know the answer. I bet some of the kids were wondering too. Or their parents 😂 ...& their online friends |
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Can somebody explain this to me?
