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Post by putabuttononit on Nov 22, 2016 18:29:08 GMT
I haven't said much about this, but rather than just comment here and there I decided to share my views. I have listened to a lot of vicious stuff on here, good people have left, and many just don't bother to engage. That's how I've been feeling too. I read a lot of ANGER on here from Hillary supporters and I shake my head at the unkindness. Why can't an honest feeling of intense disappointment be just that? How can it make anyone feel better to attack people for their vote or even just a difference of opinion?
So so much talk of diversity and inclusion but so little displayed by those touting it.
I voted for Donald Trump. I'm not his friend or his biggest fan but neither am I going to quickly distance from him either. I'm not a racist, homophobic, or any of the "sound bites" that are so popular to rattle off now they are almost like one word. I don't believe Trump is either, but time will tell. What I DO believe is we all got played by the media in one way or another. It really depended on what you chose to listen to and believe. Seems many people would be FURIOUS at what the media didn't share with you, which greatly contributed to the shock, fear, and outrage happening now.
People got SICK of the mainstream media making decisions FOR them rather than presenting the NEWS and then allowing people to make tough decsions for themselves. They (mainstream media) literally chewed up the news, then regurgitated it back into the willing mouths of gullible people who swallowed anything. It happened on both sides, however because people sick of the lies and manipulation turned to other sources of "news" at times and that was also tilted in its own way. Reddit, etc. In fact, anything we "wanted" to hear and believe could be found at any time. I made my own errors along the way, and learned to dig deeper but quite honestly how do any of us with normal lives spend all of our time digging up the truth? I'm sure I believed lies about BOTH of the candidates at some point.
Those of us who decided to support Trump had our reasons to do so, and do not have to defend it as if we have wronged ANYONE. My main reasons are pretty simple, actually. But that said I'm not about to gloat or mock anyone who is feeling devestated. I fully expected Hillary to win and felt sad about it for many reasons, but I was prepared to accept it.
If you watched his rallies your pain might be as great but your shock might not be. They were under reported and made fun of but folks, the PEOPLE of this great country were there, the ones who listened and made up their minds and then (important word here) VOTED. Many many (sorry don't have the stats) people who now protest and disrupt didn't even vote. They didn't think they needed to because they believed the lying media and the dishonest polls.
Trump said a lot of things I don't believe will happen and I think it's realistic to know not every president can do all that they dream about or hope to do for the country. He's never been a president before and I'm sure it's a sobering new reality. He has a LOT to learn. He's not my hero, my grandfather, I'm not that fond of him but I'm impressed at what he pulled off in this election. He went against the establishment, the lies, the CLEARLY biased media, tv shows, celebrities (rolling eyes), talk shows, and etc. He kept being real and he related to many people. Do bad folks support him, YES. There are some awful groups and people who stand behind him. So what..they were going to support SOMEBODY and some of the nasties chose him. Other nasties chose her. Such is life and freedom.
Why did she lose? Because instead of being respectful of anyone else's ideas, thoughts, preferences or understanding her supporters attacked, belittled, and LABELED anyone supporting him. So those supporting him quietly walked away rather than trying to share their ideas, and on Nov 8th made their voice heard. And even now there is no honest, humble autopsy being done on the "dead body" of her campaign except by those continuing to be labeled as hateful. Trump won. But it seems people would rather scream and break windows than take a honest look at their fellow Americans who voted for him. I voted for change, a new direction and I'm not ashamed that I exercised my freedom. One of my children didn't vote for him and that's their freedom too.
On this board I'd like to be treated kindly and fairly as just a Pea who thinks differently than some. Many Peas have left so while it may feel good or like a short reprieve from your grief to bully those who support the president elect it really just more of the same behavior that caused the election to go the way it did.
I saw saw some real respect yesterday between two people who disagreed strongly. It canbe done and done well. How about we take their example and start to try to reach across.
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scorpeao
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,521
Location: NorCal USA
Jun 25, 2014 21:04:54 GMT
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Post by scorpeao on Nov 22, 2016 18:35:23 GMT
I don't care that Hillary lost. Before this election I couldn't care less about politics. But, I just can't wrap my head around thinking Trump would be good for this country. The things he said while on the campaign trail...like dealing with the first amendment and freedom of press. He's a loose cannon. Since when is a loose cannon a good idea for someone in power. I really wish the things I've read, both for and against Trump, could put my mind at ease...but I gotta tell ya I'M FREAKING THE FUCK OUT about what the next 4 years are going to bring. I don't hate anyone who voted for Trump. I haven't hurled any insults at anyone that voted for Trump. I just wish I saw what y'all see in him so I could go about my business. If any other candidate had won it would be business as usual for me.
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lesley
Drama Llama
My best friend Turriff, desperately missed.
Posts: 7,184 
Location: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland
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Post by lesley on Nov 22, 2016 18:35:25 GMT
I haven't said much about this, but rather than just comment here and there I decided to share my views. I have listened to a lot of vicious stuff on here, good people have left, and many just don't bother to engage. That's how I've been feeling too. I read a lot of ANGER on here from Hillary supporters and I shake my head at the unkindness. Why can't an honest feeling of intense disappointment be just that? How can it make anyone feel better to attack people for their vote or even just a difference of opinion? So so much talk of diversity and inclusion but so little displayed by those touting it. I voted for Donald Trump. I'm not his friend or his biggest fan but neither am I going to quickly distance from him either. I'm not a racist, homophobic, or any of the "sound bites" that are so popular to rattle off now they are almost like one word. I don't believe Trump is either, but time will tell. What I DO believe is we all got played by the media in one way or another. It really depended on what you chose to listen to and believe. Seems many people would be FURIOUS at what the media didn't share with you, which greatly contributed to the shock, fear, and outrage happening now. People got SICK of the mainstream media making decisions FOR them rather than presenting the NEWS and then allowing people to make tough decsions for themselves. They (mainstream media) literally chewed up the news, then regurgitated it back into the willing mouths of gullible people who swallowed anything. It happened on both sides, however because people sick of the lies and manipulation turned to other sources of "news" at times and that was also tilted in its own way. Reddit, etc. In fact, anything we "wanted" to hear and believe could be found at any time. I made my own errors along the way, and learned to dig deeper but quite honestly how do any of us with normal lives spend all of our time digging up the truth? I'm sure I believed lies about BOTH of the candidates at some point. Those of us who decided to support Trump had our reasons to do so, and do not have to defend it as if we have wronged ANYONE. My main reasons are pretty simple, actually. But that said I'm not about to gloat or mock anyone who is feeling devestated. I fully expected Hillary to win and felt sad about it for many reasons, but I was prepared to accept it. If you watched his rallies your pain might be as great but your shock might not be. They were under reported and made fun of but folks, the PEOPLE of this great country were there, the ones who listened and made up their minds and then (important word here) VOTED. Many many (sorry don't have the stats) people who now protest and disrupt didn't even vote. They didn't think they needed to because they believed the lying media and the dishonest polls. Trump said a lot of things I don't believe will happen and I think it's realistic to know not every president can do all that they dream about or hope to do for the country. He's never been a president before and I'm sure it's a sobering new reality. He has a LOT to learn. He's not my hero, my grandfather, I'm not that fond of him but I'm impressed at what he pulled off in this election. He went against the establishment, the lies, the CLEARLY biased media, tv shows, celebrities (rolling eyes), talk shows, and etc. He kept being real and he related to many people. Do bad folks support him, YES. There are some awful groups and people who stand behind him. So what..they were going to support SOMEBODY and some of the nasties chose him. Other nasties chose her. Such is life and freedom. Why did she lose? Because instead of being respectful of anyone else's ideas, thoughts, preferences or understanding her supporters attacked, belittled, and LABELED anyone supporting him. So those supporting him quietly walked away rather than trying to share their ideas, and on Nov 8th made their voice heard. And even now there is no honest, humble autopsy being done on the "dead body" of her campaign except by those continuing to be labeled as hateful. Trump won. But it seems people would rather scream and break windows than take a honest look at their fellow Americans who voted for him. I voted for change, a new direction and I'm not ashamed that I exercised my freedom. One of my children didn't vote for him and that's their freedom too. On this board I'd like to be treated kindly and fairly as just a Pea who thinks differently than some. Many Peas have left so while it may feel good or like a short reprieve from your grief to bully those who support the president elect it really just more of the same behavior that caused the election to go the way it did. I saw saw some real respect yesterday between two people who disagreed strongly. It canbe done and done well. How about we take their example and start to try to reach across. From a foreigner's point of view, I don't think it is just the media who have played US citizens. |
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,983
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Post by Sarah*H on Nov 22, 2016 18:49:09 GMT
I believe you. What I can't understand is deciding that these characteristics in your candidate were not a deal breaker. To so many people, this decision had nothing to do with politics and to me, that seems to be a bigger divide than the partisan bickering.
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Post by gardengoddess on Nov 22, 2016 18:50:33 GMT
I haven't said much about this, but rather than just comment here and there I decided to share my views. I have listened to a lot of vicious stuff on here, good people have left, and many just don't bother to engage. That's how I've been feeling too. I read a lot of ANGER on here from Hillary supporters and I shake my head at the unkindness. Why can't an honest feeling of intense disappointment be just that? How can it make anyone feel better to attack people for their vote or even just a difference of opinion? So so much talk of diversity and inclusion but so little displayed by those touting it. I voted for Donald Trump. I'm not his friend or his biggest fan but neither am I going to quickly distance from him either. I'm not a racist, homophobic, or any of the "sound bites" that are so popular to rattle off now they are almost like one word. I don't believe Trump is either, but time will tell. What I DO believe is we all got played by the media in one way or another. It really depended on what you chose to listen to and believe. Seems many people would be FURIOUS at what the media didn't share with you, which greatly contributed to the shock, fear, and outrage happening now. People got SICK of the mainstream media making decisions FOR them rather than presenting the NEWS and then allowing people to make tough decsions for themselves. They (mainstream media) literally chewed up the news, then regurgitated it back into the willing mouths of gullible people who swallowed anything. It happened on both sides, however because people sick of the lies and manipulation turned to other sources of "news" at times and that was also tilted in its own way. Reddit, etc. In fact, anything we "wanted" to hear and believe could be found at any time. I made my own errors along the way, and learned to dig deeper but quite honestly how do any of us with normal lives spend all of our time digging up the truth? I'm sure I believed lies about BOTH of the candidates at some point. Those of us who decided to support Trump had our reasons to do so, and do not have to defend it as if we have wronged ANYONE. My main reasons are pretty simple, actually. But that said I'm not about to gloat or mock anyone who is feeling devestated. I fully expected Hillary to win and felt sad about it for many reasons, but I was prepared to accept it. If you watched his rallies your pain might be as great but your shock might not be. They were under reported and made fun of but folks, the PEOPLE of this great country were there, the ones who listened and made up their minds and then (important word here) VOTED. Many many (sorry don't have the stats) people who now protest and disrupt didn't even vote. They didn't think they needed to because they believed the lying media and the dishonest polls. Trump said a lot of things I don't believe will happen and I think it's realistic to know not every president can do all that they dream about or hope to do for the country. He's never been a president before and I'm sure it's a sobering new reality. He has a LOT to learn. He's not my hero, my grandfather, I'm not that fond of him but I'm impressed at what he pulled off in this election. He went against the establishment, the lies, the CLEARLY biased media, tv shows, celebrities (rolling eyes), talk shows, and etc. He kept being real and he related to many people. Do bad folks support him, YES. There are some awful groups and people who stand behind him. So what..they were going to support SOMEBODY and some of the nasties chose him. Other nasties chose her. Such is life and freedom. Why did she lose? Because instead of being respectful of anyone else's ideas, thoughts, preferences or understanding her supporters attacked, belittled, and LABELED anyone supporting him. So those supporting him quietly walked away rather than trying to share their ideas, and on Nov 8th made their voice heard. And even now there is no honest, humble autopsy being done on the "dead body" of her campaign except by those continuing to be labeled as hateful. Trump won. But it seems people would rather scream and break windows than take a honest look at their fellow Americans who voted for him. I voted for change, a new direction and I'm not ashamed that I exercised my freedom. One of my children didn't vote for him and that's their freedom too. On this board I'd like to be treated kindly and fairly as just a Pea who thinks differently than some. Many Peas have left so while it may feel good or like a short reprieve from your grief to bully those who support the president elect it really just more of the same behavior that caused the election to go the way it did. I saw saw some real respect yesterday between two people who disagreed strongly. It canbe done and done well. How about we take their example and start to try to reach across.
I'm afraid to tell you that Don the Con played you like a fiddle.
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Post by pierkiss on Nov 22, 2016 18:52:01 GMT
This is what I don't understand, and am having a terrible time wrapping my head around it. You say you voted for Trump. But you won't say WHY you voted for him. That is what I don't get.
I'm all for changing the government. It's part of the reasons I voted for Obama 2x. But how exactly is he going to make these changes that are going to benefit people? I know people have said that he's going to bring jobs back here. Great. That literally would be the greatest thing ever. But HOW is he going to do it? Which jobs are going to be coming back? If they are manufacturing jobs, how will they be brought back while also ensuring the safety and dignity and fair pay of the employees?
Is it because he's so great at finance and economics? Where's the solid proof of that? I haven't seen it. Am I looking in the wrong places? He hasn't released his tax records. Where does his money come from? I do not believe this question is none of our business. He has a lot of business transactions that are done abroad. I think it is important to know exactly who is giving him/his companies money. Is he even worth however much money he says he is? When you forge a campaign where you tell the voting public that you are a very wealthy guy who is great at business, you need to be able to back that up with concrete evidence. Here have been a lot of lawsuits with regards to his businesses. And I believe he has been in bankruptcy, right? Those are worrisome, and honestly casts doubt on his ability to run the government like a business.
But what I really don't understand, and am most upset about, is how people could listen to him spout off day after day after day with the inflammatory and hateful remarks against all groups and types of people, and determine that this person is going to be the one to bring us ALL together, to bring change to our country. There was so much of it, that came directly from his own mouth hat it was impossible to ignore. Impossible to think that it was all part of a "show" or "public persona" just to win. The fact that he continues to do it on Twitter after winning the election terrifies me, and makes me think that he was showing us exactly who he is. And the people that he is appointing or looking to appoint does not give me much confidence that he's not whichever of the -isms I could apply. I just don't understand how he made it out of the primaries acting like this, let alone becoming our new president.
I guess I need to know how people who voted for Trump reconcile all of this...hateful stuff...that they don't personally believe in, but still be okay voting in a person like this. For me, I cannot separate my belief that he is going to cause irreparable harm to a large section of our population, from any idea that he might have solid plans that may bring actual change to our country. I just can't. I feel like there are a lot of fine Republican people who could also have brought change that could have been the nominee, but for whatever reason they chose not to run.
I don't know if this is the type of response you were looking for. I sincerely hope I didn't offend you by posting this. It was not my intent. And for what it's worth, I do not give 2 gigs that Hillary lost. Or that the Dems lost this election. I would still be his upset if Bernie, or Elizabeth Warren, or any of my other preferred party players lost. And it's not because "my guy lost". It honestly is because Donald Trump, and all that he has stood on and for, won. Literally any other republican could have won, and I wouldn't be anywhere near this level of upset that I am. Because I do not believe they would cause nearly the amount of harm that Donald Trump is going to bring to this country and those that live here. My Dem candidates have lost in the past. And my reaction has seriously always been, "Dang, that sucks. Oh well, maybe next time" and I've simply gone on with my life. I just can't do that this time.
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Post by jenis40 on Nov 22, 2016 18:56:12 GMT
Not a Trump voter. I agree with you on the media. I'm not sure if we would have had either of these candidates (definitely not Trump anyway) if the media had done their jobs properly. The American public has gotten too used to listening to the pundits on both sides tell us how to think and manufacturing outrage rather than reporting on policy positions and character.
It is difficult for ME who views Trump as a racist, mysoginsit homophobe (based on things that have come directly from his mouth) to understand that people who voted for him were able to overlook that and vote for him anyway. I do understand that a lot of people voted for him may also thing that he all those "isms" but ultimately felt that they supported the Republican platform or felt that his business experience would be better for the country. But in those first few days after the elections, it was a gut punch to those of us who feel he ia all those "isms" that so many people could overlook that and vote for him. And quite a few of us lashed out in ways that did not help the situation in any way shape or form..
I do agree that we need to start listening to each other. I don't think that all people who voted for Trump are evil racists and homophobes.. I do think some of his voters are that way and some acknowledgement from the right about that would be helpful. Hearing opposition to his appointment of Steve Bannon would be a good start (not saying this isn't already happening). And the left needs to back off of this incessant need to get the right to say they were wrong to vote for Trump. I didn't appreciate it when my vote for Obama was called into question multiple times.
This does not mean that we should not call out racism, discricimination and homophobia when we see it or hear about it. It does not mean that we should stop voicing our opinions on cabinet appointments, ethics violations, suppression of the free press and excessive spending.
So in my own world, ive stopped watching CNN and MSNBC entirely. I watch BBC and the PBS newshour. I've subscribed to the NYT and WaPo trying to encourage a return to real journalism.
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River
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,516
Location: Alabama
Jun 26, 2014 15:26:04 GMT
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Post by River on Nov 22, 2016 18:58:47 GMT
Thank you for your post! Very well said.
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Post by lucillebluth on Nov 22, 2016 19:09:20 GMT
I try to not make things personal here, I really do. But I've got to be honest: this post is a little hard to swallow coming from someone who posted here that John Podesta was into cooking babies, or whatever the hell that post was about. Sure, now that your candidate won, you can ask everyone to make nice.
Anyway, question for you: what do you think the media got wrong about Trump? (ETA: aside from the level of his support)
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Post by flanz on Nov 22, 2016 19:10:11 GMT
This is what I don't understand, and am having a terrible time wrapping my head around it. You say you voted for Trump. But you won't say WHY you voted for him. That is what I don't get. I'm all for changing the government. It's part of the reasons I voted for Obama 2x. But how exactly is he going to make these changes that are going to benefit people? I know people have said that he's going to bring jobs back here. Great. That literally would be the greatest thing ever. But HOW is he going to do it? Which jobs are going to be coming back? If they are manufacturing jobs, how will they be brought back while also ensuring the safety and dignity and fair pay of the employees? Is it because he's so great at finance and economics? Where's the solid proof of that? I haven't seen it. Am I looking in the wrong places? He hasn't released his tax records. Where does his money come from? I do not believe this question is none of our business. He has a lot of business transactions that are done abroad. I think it is important to know exactly who is giving him/his companies money. Is he even worth however much money he says he is? When you forge a campaign where you tell the voting public that you are a very wealthy guy who is great at business, you need to be able to back that up with concrete evidence. Here have been a lot of lawsuits with regards to his businesses. And I believe he has been in bankruptcy, right? Those are worrisome, and honestly casts doubt on his ability to run the government like a business. But what I really don't understand, and am most upset about, is how people could listen to him spout off day after day after day with the inflammatory and hateful remarks against all groups and types of people, and determine that this person is going to be the one to bring us ALL together, to bring change to our country. There was so much of it, that came directly from his own mouth hat it was impossible to ignore. Impossible to think that it was all part of a "show" or "public persona" just to win. The fact that he continues to do it on Twitter after winning the election terrifies me, and makes me think that he was showing us exactly who he is. And the people that he is appointing or looking to appoint does not give me much confidence that he's not whichever of the -isms I could apply. I just don't understand how he made it out of the primaries acting like this, let alone becoming our new president. I guess I need to know how people who voted for Trump reconcile all of this...hateful stuff...that they don't personally believe in, but still be okay voting in a person like this. For me, I cannot separate my belief that he is going to cause irreparable harm to a large section of our population, from any idea that he might have solid plans that may bring actual change to our country. I just can't. I feel like there are a lot of fine Republican people who could also have brought change that could have been the nominee, but for whatever reason they chose not to run. I don't know if this is the type of response you were looking for. I sincerely hope I didn't offend you by posting this. It was not my intent. And for what it's worth, I do not give 2 gigs that Hillary lost. Or that the Dems lost this election. I would still be his upset if Bernie, or Elizabeth Warren, or any of my other preferred party players lost. And it's not because "my guy lost". It honestly is because Donald Trump, and all that he has stood on and for, won. Literally any other republican could have won, and I wouldn't be anywhere near this level of upset that I am. Because I do not believe they would cause nearly the amount of harm that Donald Trump is going to bring to this country and those that live here. My Dem candidates have lost in the past. And my reaction has seriously always been, "Dang, that sucks. Oh well, maybe next time" and I've simply gone on with my life. I just can't do that this time. OP, thank you for the tone and spirit of your post. Much appreciated. However, I could not disagree with you more. pierkiss eloquently shared much of what I am thinking, especially the portion I have bolded here. I couldn't agree more fervently with those sentiments. I and many others are saying the same thing. This election is so very different than any that has come before, and a great many of us are truly frightened for the people of our country, especially those already struggling with poverty and the social cancers of racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, etc. We are frightened by the people Trump is surrounding himself with and placing in positions of influence. We are frightened that he will act as a dictator, giving no respect to the laws of the land. We are frightened for the world and for the planet. If that seems over the top to you, so be it. There are very real threats all of us are facing now. And as a middle-aged white woman, I fear most deeply for my brothers and sisters of color (blacks, native Americans, hispanics, asians, and all who are not white or don't present as obviously white), anyone not cis-gendered or Christian, and the poor. |
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Nov 22, 2016 19:10:31 GMT
I don't feel taken or shorted by the media. I did my research and voted for the candidate I felt would be best, and do her best, for the citizens of the United States.
Frankly, while I'm angry at what is playing out with Trump, I'm not surprised. According to my above-mentioned research, he is acting exactly as he has always acted; in his own best interest.
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Post by lucyg on Nov 22, 2016 19:14:34 GMT
About that word: vicious. Donald Trump used it frequently during the campaign to describe anyone who disagreed with him or criticized him, and now I see you doing the same thing.
There was one liberal pea who I might say was "vicious" to Trump supporters. I believe she got booted. No one else (IMO) has been vicious to you or any other conservative pea and/or Trump supporter.* What we have done has been to disagree, to tell you why we disagree, and to express opinions that you (group you) couldn't really respond to in kind.
Dissension and arguing points of view does not equal viciousness. I for one am tired of hearing that word, and similar words, used to describe our response.
You are correct that there's anger on the part of Hillary's voters. We don't see this as a normal election, but as more of a doomsday scenario. It would take a lot of work on Trump's part to bring us to his side, not just claiming he wants to be president for all of us, while nominating white nationalists to high office.
And finally, a reminder: Hillary won the popular vote, at this point by nearly 2 million votes and they're still counting in California. Trump won not by popular acclaim, but because states like Alaska have a bigger proportional say than states like California. Please keep this thought in mind if you want to explain why Trump won and Hillary didn't. He actually won on what amounts to a technicality.
*based on the threads I have read, which admittedly is not all of them, but certainly many of the political threads.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 15:17:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 19:20:51 GMT
I don't believe that all who vote for a racist are racist. I do believe they are willing to overlook racism to reach some other end. Others are just not willing to do that and say "there is a line and racism (sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc.) is it and they're not willing to countenance those things no matter what they are promised in return.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Nov 22, 2016 19:21:41 GMT
You may not be a racist, homophobe, sexual predator, etc but you are apparently okay with it. Bully for you, hope nobody ever sexually assaults you and you feel like many female survivors did when the cgc was elected. Hope you're lily white so you never face the racism he promotes and heterosexual as well.
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Post by lucyg on Nov 22, 2016 19:25:50 GMT
I forgot to address your attack on the media. Certainly they are a popular scapegoat and always have been. But most of us have formed our opinions of Trump by the words coming out of his mouth and his own actions. Unless you think the media is doctoring video to make it look as though he says things he doesn't really say, or is actually lying when it reports factual material, this argument is silly.
Easy to scapegoat the media; less easy to actually defend your candidate. <---not vicious
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 15:17:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 19:26:28 GMT
You may not be a racist, homophobe, sexual predator, etc but you are apparently okay with it. Bully for you, hope nobody ever sexually assaults you and you feel like many female survivors did when the cgc was elected. Hope you're lily white so you never face the racism he promotes and heterosexual as well. You do know Trump had gay supporters and POC supporters, right? Not saying it was a majority. Not every voter was a white straight dude. One of my bi sons voted for him. |
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Post by happyOCgirl on Nov 22, 2016 19:26:35 GMT
I'm curious about why she lost as well. Is anyone really focusing on that? How is it that just about everyone expected her to win and then the surprise ending happened? All the name calling isn't helping or changing views - I see it as cementing people's opinions even more against the citizens chastising Trump voters and reaffirms their stance. When Oprah said you don't have to like Hillary to vote for her...I bet the same could be said for many Republicans and Trump.
I do agree about the media. I also think after Brexit and this election, we all realize we don't know our neighbors as much as the media would lead us to believe.
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Post by gardengoddess on Nov 22, 2016 19:29:27 GMT
Just a reminder that the OP also had this to say about people who don't identify with a religion.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Nov 22, 2016 19:30:10 GMT
You may not be a racist, homophobe, sexual predator, etc but you are apparently okay with it. Bully for you, hope nobody ever sexually assaults you and you feel like many female survivors did when the cgc was elected. Hope you're lily white so you never face the racism he promotes and heterosexual as well. You do know Trump had gay supporters and POC supporters, right? Not saying it was a majority. Not every voter was a white straight dude. One of my bi sons voted for him. I absolutely know that and can't imagine WTF they were thinking. I can't wrap my head around people voting for someone who has repeatedly attacked them. I suppose I never will. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 15:17:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 19:34:10 GMT
My son's stance was that he believes in smaller govt, deporting ILLEGALS, and that he felt that the country as a whole supports gay marriage and a woman's right to choose - or as we put it, have control over her body. Those things (gay marriage and legal abortion) are highly unlikely to be changed.
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Post by gardengoddess on Nov 22, 2016 19:34:45 GMT
You do know Trump had gay supporters and POC supporters, right? Not saying it was a majority. Not every voter was a white straight dude. One of my bi sons voted for him. I absolutely know that and can't imagine WTF they were thinking. I can't wrap my head around people voting for someone who has repeatedly attacked them. I suppose I never will. I can't either. The only thing I can think of is that their hate towards Hillary Clinton outweighed any other factor and THAT is what is really sad. Voting with hate. Well, hopefully it won't come back to bite them in their ass. |
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Nov 22, 2016 19:35:39 GMT
I absolutely know that and can't imagine WTF they were thinking. I can't wrap my head around people voting for someone who has repeatedly attacked them. I suppose I never will. I can't either. The only thing I can think of is that their hate towards Hillary Clinton outweighed any other factor and THAT is what is really sad. Voting with hate. Well, hopefully it won't come back to bite them in their ass. Hopefully because we will have to suffer through all of his F-ups as well. |
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Post by micheley on Nov 22, 2016 19:36:28 GMT
I'm not that fond of him but I'm impressed at what he pulled off in this election. He went against the establishment, the lies, the CLEARLY biased media, tv shows, celebrities (rolling eyes), talk shows, and etcImpressed?  🙄 How on earth was the media biased against him? They reported What. He. Said. If anything, the way they handled that Hail Mary from Comey screwed Hillary over. Anyway I'm not going to spend my afternoon nitpicking your post. I'll just c&p Pyccku's post from a month ago. The thing is, there are some people (you know who they are) who will ALWAYS view Hillary as worse because of Benghazi and e-mails. I think they are not looking at the whole picture, but they are compartmentalizing things so that Trump just doesn't look that bad. Trump hasn't paid taxes! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump mocked the disabled! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump mocked POWs! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump doesn't respect women! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump said something racist! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump has no plan! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump has a fake foundation being used for tax evasion! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump wants to enact stop and frisk! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump wants to take guns away from people after stop and frisk! No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump wants to unconstitutionally ban a religion from entering the US. No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump is realllllly close to Putin. No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump wants to go back on our NATO alliances. No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump wants to punish women who have abortions.No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump wants more countries to have nuclear weapons. No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump wants to know why we can't use nuclear weapons to solve disputes. No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Trump did business in Cuba during the embargo. No biggie, Hillary has Benghazi and e-mails. Each little thing doesn't sound quite so bad vs. the Benghazi/e-mails thing. But if you add all of them up, on balance Hillary's faults aren't quite as bad. It seems like no matter what Trump does, that one thing hasn't been quite big enough to overcome the Benghazi/e-mails issue. It's a cult of personality thing. On the reddit forums they refer to Trump as "Daddy" and "God-Emperor." Omarosa said "“Every critic, every detractor, will have to bow down to President Trump. It’s everyone who’s ever doubted Donald, who ever disagreed, who ever challenged him. It is the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe.” If that isn't scary, I don't know what is. I can absolutely see him doing this. He is a petty man who holds grudges for years (Remember the Vanity Fair tiny hands article 20+ years ago? Trump does. And he regularly reminds the reporter that wrote it that he remembers it.) Give him a little power and he will use it. Give him a lot of power and he will destroy us. But hey, Benghazi and e-mails. Even though way more people were killed from the misdeeds of Bush and Cheney and way more emails were lost/deleted by them, obviously Hillary's misdeeds make her unfit to lead. So instead, we should vote for the guy who hasn't paid taxes, mocks the disabled, mocks POWs, doesn't respect women, says racist things, has no plan, built a sham foundation for tax evasion, wants to enact stop and frisk, wants to take guns away from people, wants to ban Muslims from entering, is really close to Putin, wants to go back on our Nato alliances, wants to punish women who have abortions, wants more countries to have nuclear weapons, wants to use nukes to resolve disputes, and broke the embargo with Cuba. But hey...Benghazi and emails, right? If you're one who likes to bring up Benghazi and emails on every single thread, as you can see there is no need to do so. I've already done it for you. You're on ignore anyway so you're wasting time doing it again here.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
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Post by used2scrap on Nov 22, 2016 19:36:42 GMT
My son's stance was that he believes in smaller govt, deporting ILLEGALS, and that he felt that the country as a whole supports gay marriage and a woman's right to choose - or as we put it, have control over her body. Those things (gay marriage and legal abortion) are highly unlikely to be changed. That's a heck of a gamble, especially with the Supreme Court nominations on the line, and "those things" are already under attack in several states. |
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,401
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Post by RosieKat on Nov 22, 2016 19:36:55 GMT
I have friends who voted for Trump and I still consider them friends. I don't believe him when he promises anything, but for those who do, I can see how some of his claims and (vague) proposals can appeal. But when he has repeatedly said horrible things about different people and groups of people, and his supporters don't speak out, I have a problem.
I am not a Hillary fan, but I felt she was most capable of doing the job. My anger and sorrow is not that she lost, but that Trump and his lack of common decency won. For those people who have dismissed the ugliness as "campaign rhetoric," well, here we are making concrete plans for his presidency and it continues to be ugly. Has anyone seen the photo of (forgot his name), the one being considered for Homeland Security, who walked out of the meeting with his notes in plain sight? Not only is that a horrific security gaffe, the contents of the outline are horrifying. Top priority is a Muslim registry again, and the loveliness continues from there. It's not campaign rhetoric when they're actively proceeding with trying to get it done.
I do not believe every Trump supporter is a bad person. However, I feel it is on ALL of us, whoever we voted for, to call him out on his continuing racism/sexism/homophobia/etc.etc.etc. Silence at this time does equal consent.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 22, 2016 19:37:57 GMT
O/P, thanks for sharing your insights. I'm not going to criticize you for them, you've heard enough of that on other threads. I appreciate your willingness to stick your neck out.
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Post by jenis40 on Nov 22, 2016 19:43:56 GMT
I forgot to address your attack on the media. Certainly they are a popular scapegoat and always have been. But most of us have formed our opinions of Trump by the words coming out of his mouth and his own actions. Unless you think the media is doctoring video to make it look as though he says things he doesn't really say, or is actually lying when it reports factual material, this argument is silly. Easy to scapegoat the media; less easy to actually defend your candidate. <---not vicious I don't necessarily disagree with you but do you think the media did a good job of covering the actual issues? CNN repeatedly ran Trump rallies in their entirety during the primaries. Coverage of the real policy issues was out there but you had to dig for it. So I place some blame on the media but a great deal on a gullible American public who don't have the time or skills to ferret out the truth. I am hoping we return to a higher journalistic standard and decrease exponentially the number of political pundits. |
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 22, 2016 19:45:49 GMT
I don't believe that all who vote for a racist are racist. I do believe they are willing to overlook racism to reach some other end. Others are just not willing to do that and say "there is a line and racism (sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc.) is it and they're not willing to countenance those things no matter what they are promised in return. For my best friend it was abortion. She's devoutly Catholic and the potential for supreme court nominations was her deciding factor. She didn't care for Trump at all but felt she needed to vote for the party. Even though I disagreed with her and voted otherwise (I'm pro-life, as well, if that matters), I respect her decision.
I do believe the media was played - probably by both sides. I've always been a CNN watcher (because they usually have news on all day, while my local stations don't), and was shocked when I turned on Fox news one day. It was like a whole different election.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 22, 2016 19:47:45 GMT
<snip> What I DO believe is we all got played by the media in one way or another. It really depended on what you chose to listen to and believe. Seems many people would be FURIOUS at what the media didn't share with you, which greatly contributed to the shock, fear, and outrage happening now. People got SICK of the mainstream media making decisions FOR them rather than presenting the NEWS and then allowing people to make tough decsions for themselves. They (mainstream media) literally chewed up the news, then regurgitated it back into the willing mouths of gullible people who swallowed anything. It happened on both sides, however because people sick of the lies and manipulation turned to other sources of "news" at times and that was also tilted in its own way. Reddit, etc. In fact, anything we "wanted" to hear and believe could be found at any time. I made my own errors along the way, and learned to dig deeper but quite honestly how do any of us with normal lives spend all of our time digging up the truth? I'm sure I believed lies about BOTH of the candidates at some point. Those of us who decided to support Trump had our reasons to do so, and do not have to defend it as if we have wronged ANYONE. My main reasons are pretty simple, actually. But that said I'm not about to gloat or mock anyone who is feeling devestated. I fully expected Hillary to win and felt sad about it for many reasons, but I was prepared to accept it. If you watched his rallies your pain might be as great but your shock might not be. They were under reported and made fun of but folks, the PEOPLE of this great country were there, the ones who listened and made up their minds and then (important word here) VOTED. Many many (sorry don't have the stats) people who now protest and disrupt didn't even vote. They didn't think they needed to because they believed the lying media and the dishonest polls. Trump said a lot of things I don't believe will happen and I think it's realistic to know not every president can do all that they dream about or hope to do for the country. He's never been a president before and I'm sure it's a sobering new reality. He has a LOT to learn. He's not my hero, my grandfather, I'm not that fond of him but I'm impressed at what he pulled off in this election. He went against the establishment, the lies, the CLEARLY biased media, tv shows, celebrities (rolling eyes), talk shows, and etc. He kept being real and he related to many people. Do bad folks support him, YES. There are some awful groups and people who stand behind him. So what..they were going to support SOMEBODY and some of the nasties chose him. Other nasties chose her. Such is life and freedom. <snip> ^^^ I deleted the stuff about Hillary, because, like someone else said, it's not about her losing any more. I didn't realize until after the election just how MUCH I had wanted to see a woman finally be elected President, but really- it's not about her losing. It's about Trump winning.
(and as an aside, I watched plenty of coverage of Trump rallies, by the way- I think we all did, enough to see what was going on at them)
Re: the bits of your post that I bolded and colored- YOU may not think a lot of the things Trump said will happen, but I truly believe a LOT of his supporters voted for him precisely BECAUSE they wanted those things to happen (building a wall / kicking out immigrants, keeping out those 'scary' Muslims, jailing Hillary, bringing back their jobs, etc.).
He does have a lot to learn, and he has never been in politics before- and that, to me, is one of the scariest things about the whole thing. Being President is such an important 'job' that people wanted to give it to someone who didn't understand anything about what it involved?? I don't get it. I will never understand why people liked him being so decidedly un-presidential, and cannot see him changing that when he takes the oath of office-- he shoots off his mouth anytime he personally feels slighted- just look at his Twitter account! That scares the CRAP out of me, no matter what checks / balances there are on the office of President.
Regarding your comment about him being 'real' and going against the 'lies' we're going to have to agree to disagree, because in my opinion, pretty much nothing that came out of his mouth was the truth. At all. I believe he said what he needed to in order to get elected, and that the best interests of the citizens are pretty far down his list, after himself, his businesses, his kids, etc.
He can't build a wall, he can't jail Hillary, he CAN'T bring back jobs that were lost due to the globalization of the economy and the progress of technology... HE played on people's fears to get himself elected. HE lied, too, quite a LOT, actually. I just hope he doesn't screw the country- and our society- up too much before we get rid of him 4 years from now.
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Post by terri on Nov 22, 2016 19:48:11 GMT
It seems to me you are doing exactly what you are upset about. When you make statements like this:
You are generalizing liberals on this board that believe in diversity as people that display little of it. Many of us only voiced our opinions on people that voted for Trump in only one thread, posted immediately after the election, where we were specifically asked if we believed a statement to be true. There have been a few Peas that have spoken up more like this but they are by far in the minority. I guess I'm still not exactly sure how this is different than a few conservative Peas telling people they were unpatriotic socialists because they supported Obama. I knew my own heart and that I was not unpatriotic, and I also knew I could choose to not open political threads when I needed a break. You can't control other peoples thoughts and actions, only how you respond to them. So while I believe people are sincere that their feelings were hurt, I do not objectively believe there have been huge amounts of people being "unkind" and "vicious." Most of the anger and fear I have seen is voiced directly at Donald Trump because of his actions since the election, not at people who voted for him.
Your post also talks about why Hilary lost. Some are valid points, but I think it also should be pointed out that while Trump won the presidency, she won the popular vote so maybe an autopsy needs to be conducted by both sides.
When people say they are not racist, sexist, xenophobic, I can accept that. However, it will not change my mind that by choosing to vote for Trump, people have voted in a way that indicated while they might not be those things, they are okay with a candidate that is. I don't believe that about Trump because of what the news media tells me, I believe it because of what has come out of his own mouth. I also feel strongly that one of the most patriotic things a person can do if they believe this about Trump (and my opinion has been reinforced by his appointments so far) is to speak out and say this is not okay with me. That is not about you or any other conservative Pea, it is about me and my values. Patriotism, values and this country does not belong to a political party, but to each one of us, and each one of us has the right to speak out when we feel injustices are happening. I respect your right to express your opinion, but I do think that all the talk about people no longer feeling accepted on this board is a subtle way of trying to shut down what are in my opinion essential conversations.
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