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Post by supersoda on Dec 3, 2016 0:57:12 GMT
I am so sorry for the loss of your pets and your home.
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Post by nicoleq on Dec 3, 2016 1:06:14 GMT
What a horrible thing to happen. I admire your positive outlook. I am so sorry for you family... and especially for the loss of your pets.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Dec 3, 2016 1:17:37 GMT
I'm so sorry. I hope you get all of the answers and help you need.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Dec 3, 2016 1:25:02 GMT
I'm so sorry about your fur babies.
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msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Dec 3, 2016 1:32:01 GMT
I'm so sorry!
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kate
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Location: The city that doesn't sleep
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Dec 3, 2016 1:40:51 GMT
I'm so sorry.
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IAmUnoriginal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,894
Jun 25, 2014 23:27:45 GMT
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Post by IAmUnoriginal on Dec 3, 2016 2:14:06 GMT
I am so sorry you lost your pets and part of your home.
I haven't personally gone through a fire, but I do work in the insurance industry and have seen plenty of clients through their fires. I've also taken some excellent continuing education courses for my insurance license that have shown me a few things I wouldn't have otherwise seen or known.
If you haven't met him yet, you're going to be assigned a large loss adjuster. He's going to be your guy for the next year while you get this claim settled. Large loss adjusters typically have a good amount of claims experience. One of the reps I work with was one before he moved to the sales side. He spent hours and hours in burned out buildings inventorying things down to the outlet covers and switch plates. You're not going to be alone in calculating the loss.
Your questions: Is it worth going through closets and having clothes sent to be desmoked? Does it work? -- As others have said -- yes and yes. Your clothes will be sent to a restoration dry cleaner who subcontracts with your restoration company. They are freaking amazing at what they do. They will be able to flag stuff you want back ASAP and put those items on a rush. The rest will be cleaned and stored with your household goods as they get to it in their work order.
Is it worth going through all my (extensive) crafting closets and documenting all the supplies etc? Talk to your adjuster first. So many things will be able to go to the restoration company. The day I toured one facility, they were cleaning scrap booking and stamping stuff. They were using q-tips to get into the crevices of a paper cutter as we watched them.
How would I begin to estimate the value of everything, let alone remember everything I have in there. -- Your adjuster has huge databases available to him. You also quite likely have replacement cost coverage on your policy. Things that can't be cleaned and you want replaced, he will have you purchase the replacement and provide him with receipts. Other items, you'll arrive at an agreed value (fabric stash, yarn stash, paper, etc.)
I have an extensive collection of old childrens books and Little Golden Books. They will always smell of smoke, right? Advice on how to just let it all go? or is there an alternative solution? Your restoration company should be able to handle these. They will be cleaned for soot and smoke residue. Any with water damage, they may be able to correct. They have their ways. Paper is tough, but it's not a lost cause until they say so. Then, the ones that make it through cleaning and to the final step of smell removal will be placed in a room they have with an ozone machine. Ozone removes all the odor. It's very likely an ozone machine will be run in your house at some point. Smoke and soot go absolutely everywhere. Look in the corners of rooms closed off during the fire. You're going to find some nasty looking cobwebs that make you question your cleaning skills. They aren't cobwebs that caught smoke. They are soot webs and if you touched them they would stick to youand smear like tar. Your restoration company will clean all that nastiness, too.
How will I handle the next 6 to 8 months of living in "not my home".... Again, your adjuster will be able to help you here. You have a coverage on your home policy called "additional living expense" or similar wording. This will pay for you to rent a house or apartment while your home is being repaired. Typically, if adjusters for our company knows the damage will take 90+ days to repair, our insureds are put in a rental rather than a hotel. Our adjusters have contacts in the real estate community that help find the houses or apartments. If you need things, talk to your adjuster. They have resources and BTDT experience. If you think an amount isn't fair, talk to him and show him some like items. They are human and make mistakes. But, in 10 years, every large loss adjuster I've dealt with has been fair and reasonable. Claims adjusters don't get promoted to large loss until they've proven they can be calm, logical and deal well with people who are under major stress from their loss. Dont be afraid to ask questions. They've seen it before. You haven't. They want you to understand the process. If you don't understand something, ask them to explain it further, or call your rep for clarification.
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ModChick
Drama Llama
True North Strong and Free
Posts: 5,062
Jun 26, 2014 23:57:06 GMT
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Post by ModChick on Dec 3, 2016 2:16:04 GMT
Oh man I have no advice but wanted to say how sorry I am.
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Post by mrsscrapdiva on Dec 3, 2016 2:24:43 GMT
I just wanted to say that I am so sorry this happened to you and your family and pets. I am glad though that you are ok physically and that you seem to have a good support network around you.
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Post by txdancermom on Dec 3, 2016 2:28:04 GMT
I am so sorry this happened, no advise but wish you the best
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Post by lisae on Dec 3, 2016 2:37:35 GMT
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I don't have any advice but I really admire the way you are moving forward and making the best of your situation. So sorry for the loss of your pets.
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Post by crittsmom on Dec 3, 2016 2:54:10 GMT
I am so sorry.
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azelizabeth
Shy Member
Posts: 16
Jan 7, 2015 3:47:13 GMT
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Post by azelizabeth on Dec 3, 2016 3:00:08 GMT
I haven't had a fire but had a major flood with 100k of damage last spring. I have State Farm, overall they did great on the restoration of the home but sucked with the contents. Here are some tips:
restoration on companies will star sub contracting jobs, get a notebook and write down who has what. For example a electronics co had my appliances, cost my drapes, someone else my furniture, etc. I highly recommend finding a good contractor, the list State Farm gave me worked for them you have the right to use who you want. I had a friend call the city building inspector to check out my list.
save receipts, we were in a hotel for 2 weeks and apart,bet for 3 months, they reimbursed part of my food expense. Start a computer file of contents by room, day by day you will thing of items. It is worth listing everything, you end up losing some things so get what you can.
you have 2 years to submit things. When you fill out the collaboration loss list, once you submit it you can't always see it. Ask the adjuster for a hard Copy, as you replace things and submit the receipt use a highliter, yellow submitted receipt green reimbursed. Don't forget food loss, pantry, toilet paper, etc. it adds up and you replace them when you return home.
Communicate with the adjuster via email. Get a file box and keep pay stubs. At the end don't forget to submit final bill and get your depreciation check they hold, mine was 7k.
its a good time to do upgrades that make sense, I redid my fireplace area because it was torn up anyway. Also guest bath where flood hit.
Feel free to to contact me with questions. It is hard and full of ups and downs, remind yourself that everyone is safe and you didn't lose your family. Sending hugs.
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Post by tinydogmafia on Dec 3, 2016 3:44:05 GMT
I am extremely sorry to read all you are going thorough. So many ((hugs)) your way.
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Post by peace on Dec 3, 2016 3:56:50 GMT
So for those of you who have the gone through this: Is it worth going through closets and having clothes sent to be desmoked? Does it work? Is it worth going through all my (extensive) crafting closets and documenting all the supplies etc? I'm talking one big closet full of all my sewing/jewelry making/painting/needlework/and every other craft known to man supplies as well as a scrapbook room with cabinets full of supplies. How would I begin to estimate the value of everything, let alone remember everything I have in there. I have an extensive collection of old childrens books and Little Golden Books. They will always smell of smoke, right? Advice on how to just let it all go? or is there an alternative solution? How will I handle the next 6 to 8 months of living in "not my home".... I want to go back to work on Monday, but I'm still feeling so overwellmed as I lay here unable to get back to sleep. I have a great support team. Even the guy in charge of coordinating the restoration team was impressed with my neighbors and friends. They have all been so helpful. They have taken care of boarding my dog, arranging cremation for the deceased, getting us clothes, makeup, basic necessities, and chocolate! I began working at a very small private school in the neighborhood in August. (150 students enrolled preschool thru 12th grade). The day after the fire the principal came over with gift cards and money that the students and parents had collected to help us. It was over $1500.00! I was blown away! Desmoking clothes: works somewhat. What I found with these companies is they are mostly vultures. They provide a service because insurance pays and it isn't very good. After my fire, I had clothes bagged up for donation PRIOR to the fire. The restoration company took THOSE clothes and had them cleaned without asking. I received those back from the cleaners and even though they were my donated clothes, I thought I would be relieved to have something. I wasn't. They pretty much destroyed the clothes through the process. They were faded and pilled. Not wearable. In hindsight I would've taken my favorite pieces and tried cleaning them myself. Now that we have these super duper sanitizing washing machines, I would've tried that instead. It is worth documenting your craft supplies because what they do is guesstimate. They have no clue and when you get their numbers back you have to prove what it was worth rather than have them look for a higher price point from the get go. As long as they know that you had higher quality stuff- they can come closer with value. EXAMPLE: my makeup. They guys were just going to say "makeup drawer XYZ. Value:$40." I said- hell no. There is high quality stuff in there. They actually went through item by item and I was fairly compensated. He later thanked me for enlightening him because he had no idea. Not living in your home sucks. It sucks in so many ways. You feel like you are in limbo. People say stupid things. You will suffer. All I can promise you is that when it is all said and done- you will love your house more. Between now and then- it truly sucks. And I am so sorry. I recommend not letting them create a drive for you (donated clothing and such). Have someone be your spokesperson and suggest gift cards. You will have enough on your plate without going through everyone else's hand-me-downs for usable items during such a painful and stressful time. Don't be afraid to say when someone asks you "what can I do to help?" say- giftcards. This happened to me in 2011. It changed me. It changed my family. I am divorced now. And there's so much more to the story but I am grateful to have gone through it. Life lesson. AND--- please PM me. I would like to send you a gift card. Seriously. I know what those meant to ME in my time of need. Let me. Please. PM me for anything at all. It's shitty. And I am sorry. It will get better this I promise. Hugs to you and yours.
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Post by mlynn on Dec 3, 2016 4:46:14 GMT
I was living at my Mom's when we had a major fire. The one big thing I have to say is this...
Make sure that your contract with the contractor includes the phrase "time is of the essence". Otherwise you have no recourse if they are not meeting the time aspect of it. My mom's contract did not include this. The contractor was also working on construction for a lawyer. Mom's work got shoved aside, and we ended up stranded with a gap between when the insurance paid for housing and when the house was ready. Actually, I would recommend you meet with a lawyer and either get advice before the contract and/or have him review the contract and make any necessary recommendations for revision before signing. It could save you a lot of money and headaches in the end.
It will be achingly, horrifically difficult itemizing everything for the insurance claim. And then valuing what was paid and how much to replace it. If you can, give yourself a bit of time to recover a little before going through that. All I l left after the fire was the clothes on my back. Trust me...I know what you are going through. My whole household was packed up and stored there.
Also make sure that you know exactly what kind of insurance you have. My husband and I had a claim on our roof for storm damage. We had a replacement cost policy. Our roof was cedar. If we replaced with cedar, we got the cost of replacement. If we replaced with something else, we got the depreciated value of the roof. HUGE difference.
When we purchased our policy, I chose the insurance company above the others because if there was a fire, this policy would pay for the increased cost of bringing the house up to code. Hopefully your policy will as well. Otherwise, you will have major costs out of pocket for these "upgrades". Make sure you know what you are getting into before signing contracts and settlements. You do not want to run out of money with the house only half done. Be pro-active and find out ahead of time what kind of situation you are dealing with. Also, if you are planning to do some of the work yourselves, make sure what, if any, affect that will have on the proceeds of your claim.
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Mary Kay Lady
Pearl Clutcher
PeaNut 367,913 Refupea number 1,638
Posts: 3,074
Jun 27, 2014 4:11:36 GMT
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Post by Mary Kay Lady on Dec 3, 2016 5:09:33 GMT
First, let me say that I am so very sorry for your loss. I truly understand the loss and devastation that you're experiencing.
I had a house fire back in 1994. It was terrible. We were out of town and someone broke in, took what they wanted, and set fire to my house on their way out. I had a cat that I lost in my fire, so I understand about losing your fur babies. I'm so sorry.
I was out of town dealing with a family emergency at the time, so went from one stressful situation to another.
It took over 6 months for my house to be rebuilt. It's the house that I currently live in. The house was completely torn down to the studs, carpet ripped up, etc. It was very very stressful.
Here are my suggestions:
I am 100% serious on this one: JOIN A GYM AND GO EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! The stress you are under is unimaginable. You need a positive way to deal with it. You will feel like you don't have time to go, but GO ANYWAY!! I almost had a nervous breakdown due to the stress.
Buy a spiral notebook and use it for keeping notes on what your insurance agent, claims adjuster, contractor, etc have told you. Don't trust your memory. You're under a lot of stress. You're going to forget a lot of things.
When people offer help, accept it. Even if you think you don't need it, accept it. You will need it in the end.
My fire was December 2nd. 1994. So about the same time of year as yours. Our family was adopted by several organizations because of the holidays. We were so grateful for each and every item that was given to us.
We were with Allstate Insurance and they were wonderful to us. We completely maxed out all areas of our homeowners policy.
Personally, if you have replacement cost coverage (Check with your insurance agent to find out if you do or not.) the things that you've mentioned like scrapbooking supplies I'd just discard them and get new.
I did have one piece of furniture restored, it's a solid cedar hope chest. All of my other furniture was discarded. I was told that the cost of restoration would be very close to the cost of replacement and unless something had sentimental value it would't be worth it.
All of my clothes were discarded and I bought all new. While this sounds like fun on the surface, it's not. Every time I got dressed I had to think about if I had the right shoes to go with this dress? Do I have a slip? Jewelry? etc.
When you're documenting things that you're discarding include EVERYTHING! If you have friends who offer to help, let them. Record every hanger, every pen, every shirt, everything! Nothing is too insignificant.
On your crafty supplies, personally, I would discard it and start again. You will probably be able to estimate what you have. Things like: 27 bottles of Stickles, 54 spools of ribbon, 83 12 X 12 paper pads, etc.
You are the only one who can decide on what things you're willing to save and what you're willing to discard. Somethings you'll just have to let go of out of pure survival.
(((Big hugs))) to you as you go through this. It will be hard. You will get depressed. You will get discouraged. But, you will get through it. Again, I am so very sorry for your loss.
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Post by candleangie on Dec 3, 2016 5:23:03 GMT
Oh my goodness....I am SO SO sorry. We had a total loss fire in 2009, so I do have some advice for you...
Do you have replacement value insurance or market value insurance? We had State Farm too, and they were WONDERFUL. They took such good care of us, seriously. You're in great hands.
As you write your home inventory lists...go one room at a time. If you haven't cleaned out the house yet, you can go take pictures before it's emptied out. Honestly, even taking photos of the empty house will help...Mentally walk through each room and open each cabinet/drawer in your head. Do this with a family member or two. Talking it through will help both of you remember more of what was in there. Ask your agent how long you can continue to add to your list. Keep at least one blank inventory form handy even when you think you're finished. You'll remember things here and there for quite a while.
For some things you can bundle them on the list because you'll be replacing them, in one shot, as a set. (Dishes, 12 place settings. Glasses 12...etc) If you will have to buy it one at a time, you need to list it one at a time. It's okay to have some listings that say "assorted pots and pans", BUT....if you have replacement value insurance, each line item is reimbursed from one receipt only. So if you say "10 pans", and you turn in a receipt for one of them....they will close that line item as "reimbursed" and you'll be out the other nine.
For example, we listed my daughters charm bracelet as a bracelet with 10 charms. But the charms were specific to shows she had danced in, so we had to buy them from all kinds of different places. We only got reimbursed for one of them, because we didn't list 10 charms as separate line items.
You'll spend lots of time on google to get prices for things. Just look up a similar item and list the median price you find. They're not going to ask for receipts or hassle you about it unless something seems really crazy. I had $3500 just in fabric and supplies in my sewing room and they didn't even bat an eye.
Don't forget to list your food, toiletries, cleaning supplies, etc.
Is it worth going through closets and having clothes sent to be desmoked? Totally not worth it. Does it work? Not really. Most wooden furniture is also not worth it, in my experience. Especially dressers or cabinets because they tend to have more raw wood in them. What seems like a faint smoky smell now, will seem VERY strong later when you're not as used to the smell. I still have a couple of boxes that kind of bowl me over when I open them, and it's been 7 years. Is it worth going through all my (extensive) crafting closets and documenting all the supplies etc? Yes. Completely worth it. Think about how you plan to replace it all. If you want to just go have a paper palooza and replace it all in one day from one place, then you can bundle it together on one line. ### sheets of scrapbooking paper $XXX If you want to take your time replacing it, put it in smaller batches (### sheets white scrapbooking paper, ### sheets holiday, etc.) They don't care if you replace white with white, just as long as it's paper with paper. Guesstimating is fine, and guess generously because almost everyone shorts themselves when they do the inventory (this was the advice our agent told us very quietly and off to the side....) I'm talking one big closet full of all my sewing/jewelry making/painting/needlework/and every other craft known to man supplies as well as a scrapbook room with cabinets full of supplies.
How would I begin to estimate the value of everything, let alone remember everything I have in there. See above advice I have an extensive collection of old childrens books and Little Golden Books. They will always smell of smoke, right? Advice on how to just let it all go? or is there an alternative solution? Time will take the smell out. Send them with the restoration people, and then store them in an open box somewhere safe once you get them home. How will I handle the next 6 to 8 months of living in "not my home".... This was so hard for me. I was really homesick. The best thing you can do is just keep busy, keep your regular routine as much as you can. Do the things you like to do. It really helps.
Besides the inventory list, keep good track of your living expenses. Anytime you need to eat out, or replace toiletries, etc. Those are all covered by your insurance. If you have a longer drive to work, that mileage is reimbursed.
Hang in there. It's a lot to keep track of, and even more to process emotionally/mentally. (((hugs))) It get's better. Last year, 5 years out from our fire, was the first time that the date passed and none of us even realized it was the anniversary of it all. It kind of felt like, "Okay...we've healed."
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Grom Pea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,944
Jun 27, 2014 0:21:07 GMT
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Post by Grom Pea on Dec 3, 2016 6:31:52 GMT
I'm so sorry for your losses. My friend had a fire at her apartment while she was at work and get pets perished too. I was pregnant at the time so my husband went in and helped her salvage what she could. She got strange and said that everything was gone but he took a filing cabinet and all get paperwork was there. It's like she didn't want to deal with it, so he helped her and we stored about 10 paper copier sized boxes of stuff for her. She also gave me a bunch of stuff she didn't want. Dh photographed everything so we could return it whenever she wanted. We helped her get a new bed and made sure she got settled in a new place. We saw her at the next thanksgiving and brought one box of stuff and I've never heard from her again despite multiple attempts to call and email. Now many years later I'm not sure what to do with the stuff, part of me wants to just drop it all off on her porch. Anyway she gave me a Mexican blanket that was in the apartment but not damaged and we washed it and it doesn't smell, in fact I was sleeping with it the other night and had totally forgotten where it came from until I started reading this post. I hope everything goes well for you and things can be fixed or replaced and that you hold onto your friends, I have no idea why my friend just disappeared, it's almost like she doesn't want to deal with the stuff so didn't want to deal with me, but seriously I cannot get rid of it, some of it is sentimental like her grandmother's collection of buddahs. Hopefully one day she'll come around and want the stuff and to see us again.
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Post by gale w on Dec 3, 2016 8:25:17 GMT
I'm so sorry for your losses.
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Post by princess consuela on Dec 3, 2016 10:13:08 GMT
I have no advice for you but just wanted to take a moment and say how sorry I am for the loss - not only of your house and belongings, but for your animals. Thank goodness your other puppy got outside. I'll be thinking of you and your family
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michellegb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,915
Location: New England and loving it!
Jun 26, 2014 0:04:59 GMT
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Post by michellegb on Dec 3, 2016 10:26:55 GMT
That's just awful! I'm so sorry that this happened.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 3, 2016 13:21:19 GMT
(((hugs))))
I am so sorry you lost your home to fire.
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sweetpeasmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,592
Jun 27, 2014 14:04:01 GMT
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Post by sweetpeasmom on Dec 3, 2016 13:33:03 GMT
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I have no advice other than what can it hurt to try and restore as much as possible. Glad to hear you have a wonderful support team.
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Post by runner5 on Dec 3, 2016 14:09:23 GMT
I've never been through one but my heart aches for you and your loss - especially the loss of your pets. Your friends sound amazing and I know that must be a huge comfort.
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Post by mikklynn on Dec 3, 2016 14:34:27 GMT
I'm so sorry! I can't imagine how stressful this is. I hope it all goes well. I know it took DH's sister 6 months to get back in her house after a kitchen fire.
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Post by candleangie on Dec 3, 2016 20:39:03 GMT
what can it hurt to try and restore as much as possible. Glad to hear you have a wonderful support team. You have to be careful. What doesn't come out usable still has to be replaced. Restoration can frequently cost more than the item is worth and it all works against your maximum pay out from the insurance company. You could easily restore yourself out of money and run short on being able to replace everything that needs replacing.
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Post by rahnee on Dec 3, 2016 21:46:50 GMT
I don't post here often but just wanted to say I'm sorry. We did lose a house to a fire in August this year but it wasn't the same situation as yours. We were not living in ours at the time, although we had for 17 years, and I was currently using it as my office so it contained all my office equipment and files etc. Ours was deliberately set alight by a group of children aged 10-12 years old. I know one of the children lived down the street, the rest somewhere in the neighbourhood. Only the 10 year was charged and went to Children's Court but we were not advised of the results. The police did not expect there to be any consequences. I went around there yesterday to check the mail box and there were a group of boys hanging around in the street in front of the house one of the 'culprits' lives in. When I can out a few minutes later they were all on their bikes, hanging around in front of my house, watching me as I drove down the street. I would be fairly confident that these are the boys involved. But we've been told nothing. I know they're kids but I think there needs to be some consequences. Even if its making them clean up the mess they have created. One of them apparently had been lighting fires in rubbish bins around town so it's not the first time.
The funny thing, I found out about the fire on Facebook. I sat down for a few minutes to have a coffee and picked up my phone, and there it was, address and all. Hubby was out doing the grocery shopping. I jumped up and yelled the house is on fire, and ran out the door and drove down there about 5 minutes away. My poor kids thought home was on fire and I'd driven off and left them. It seemed so unreal as we had evacuated for bushfires the last two summers and here we were in the middle of winter. I couldn't get in the street when I got there as it was all blocked off with 6 firetrucks, ambulance (just in case it was needed), electricity and gas companies to shut off the services, and all the neighbours.
I can imagine what you must be going through. I still can't visit mine without crying. When it first happened I often thought of what it must be like when someone lost their actual home. At least we still had our home. Losing pets would be devastating. I am so so sorry about your losses. This would be the hardest part. We have been battling with the insurance company since it happened. They advised that they weren't going to cover it as I was using it for business purposes. However, they knew this when the policy was taken out as it was made clear to them. We have however, in the last week, received a call to advise that they will accept the claim which is a huge relief. Not sure how long it will take now. We felt quite uncomfortable as they continued to investigate us for several weeks despite the police catching the children who lit the fire the very next day. We were subjected to lengthy separate interviews which were recorded and had to provide financial records. Even my kids were bursting into tears at school because they were stressed about it. It all had an effect on my kids also. I had to pick one up from school in tears a couple of times due to the stress.
As you walk up to the house, even standing in the street, you can still smell the smoke. We've tried taking a portable oil heater out to clean up but we just couldn't get the smoke smell out of it. We've dumped quite a lot but still need to get the rest out. It was difficult to remove things as it was hard to see through the tears. We are in the process of burning my old partially damaged paper work files as these cannot be dumped and shredding companies wont take them due to the smoke damage. Its taken probably 10 full days of burning so far and we are only about 2/3rds of the way through. We can't walk into the house without walking out black.
The two back bedrooms of ours are completely gutted as is the hallway, including the roof and the house frame. The rest is smoke damaged and burnt. There has been a fire building inspector through who has advised that it is cheaper to demolish and rebuild than repair. Every window, every bit of plasterboard, the entire roof and floor, all need to be replace.
I wish you the best. I hope that your new home is everything you want. Make the most of all your support. You need it.
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Dec 3, 2016 22:02:50 GMT
I'm very sorry! We had a close call last year just after we brought a puppy home. The toilet flooded on our way out the door for basketball practice and it went to the basement and an old amplifier was plugged in and got wet. We heard the water and investigated the basement and then saw smoke.
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gina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,225
Jun 26, 2014 1:59:16 GMT
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Post by gina on Dec 3, 2016 22:35:45 GMT
Wow, how sad. Just wanted to extend my condolences.
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