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Post by pjaye on Jan 15, 2017 18:20:55 GMT
Somewhere in this mess, decent citizens have to stand up and say enoughThe decent citizens should have said "enough" when it was Trump directing his hate at Obama for all those years, too late and too hypocritical to start demanding it be done now when the shoe's on the other foot and poor little Trump and his followers are getting all butt hurt because now they are reaping what they sowed.
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Post by lovetodigi on Jan 15, 2017 18:22:42 GMT
I am not a Republican but I have never been upset when a Republican has won. I have no respect whatsoever for Trump, furthermore he disgusts me.i think he has no common sense or ethics. He is not out to do what is good for the country but for himself. I will speak up against him when I feel he is in the wrong and I do not feel the need to support him when what he does goes against, in my opinion, the interest of the nation. 1 million times this
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Post by snowsilver on Jan 15, 2017 18:24:06 GMT
Are you REALLY equating the hate being thrown against Trump to anything that was said about Obama?? Really!! I do not remember ONE person attempting to keep a performer from singing at Obama's Inauguration. I don't remember crowds of people making plans to keep their fellow citizens from attending the Inauguration! The hate that is being expressed against Trump is unprecedented and it is ugly. I don't know, Elise. Are you really claiming that people protesting inauguration performers are worse than those who burned and hung effigies of Obama? I also live in Trump country and while we didn't have effigies in the city, I saw at least two outside of town, and heard many people talk about how "that (slur word) better not come to our state or else I'll show him what happened to misbehaving slaves" (a real quote from an ex-friend's brother). The hate isn't unprecedented, and I'd argue that it was far more ugly in 2008 than now. NO, I am definitely not saying that. There is little uglier than burning effigies. But really, just how many people actually did that!! Being honest. I do not remember it being masses. Again, have you seen the "Rape Melania" signs? Have you read some of the comments on various news threads about her, Barron, Ivanka, etc. etc.? I have, and they are as revolting as it is possible to be. It happens on both sides. And you and I will have to disagree about it being uglier in 2008. I do not remember any concerted effort to block entries to DC to keep those wishing to attend Obama's Inauguration from being able to do so.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 15, 2017 18:29:27 GMT
Our memories are very clearly colored by our biases. I remember very clearly people making dummies of President Obama, lynching and burning them. I remember signs with a picture of a noose saying "Hang in there, Obama." I remember signs with him dressed up like a witch doctor. I remember a large segment of the population for months--YEARS on end--questioning his birth certificate/ legitimacy to be president. I remember so much hate. And I don't disagree, Katy with what you are saying. But I contend that it was a small and SICK part of the population doing it. That is happening still. Have you seen the "Rape Melania" signs. This sort of thing will always happen. But I have NEVER seen death threats issued to a performer before just because he/she agreed to be part of the Inauguration. EVERY president has had his haters. I well remember the ugliness against Reagan (perhaps you are too young) and he will go down as one of our most beloved presidents of all time. But this is the worst it has ever been. My contention is that displaying the same ugliness and hatred towards the person you hate makes you exactly like them! Somewhere in this mess, decent citizens have to stand up and say enough! Let's return to civility and civil criticism. Let's stop the death threats. Nobody here is saying that they condone the death threats. And I would venture to guess that it is a "small and sick part of the population" doing that as well. I also haven't seen "rape Melania" signs or heard about people trying to stop people from going to the inauguration. Source?
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jan 15, 2017 18:32:17 GMT
The biggest difference with Trump is that he is so unpresidential.
On Nov. 9, I told my husband that I really hoped Trump would be able to grow up, unite the country and lead us to peace and prosperity. He made some promises during the campaign that I hoped he would be able to fulfill - not the stupid ones (lock her up and getting Mexico to pay for a wall) but the good ones - He would fill his cabinet with wise experts and he would listen to them. He would bring back jobs to those who were out of work. He would replace the ACA with something even BETTER.
I was willing to give him a chance, I really was. But as his actions have shown, it turns out that he is highly unlikely to do the things he's promised because not only is he incapable of doing the heavy mental lifting required to do them, he's absolutely unwilling and unable to listen to the experts who might save him (and us) from his crazy actions. He's filling his cabinet with people who are not experts and have no business being there. He's willing to repeal without a good replacement in hand - putting millions of American citizens out of insurance The jobs he's brought back have nothing to do with him - they are often things that were planned years ago, without his input.
In addition, he's making international gaffes left and right. He's going to Tweet us into a war that doesn't need to be fought. AND it looks like there is more and more evidence mounting that he is beholden to Putin, and he simply doesn't care to listen when the "elite experts" tell him that Putin/Russia aren't our friends.
Yeah, I get that the people in the rust belt don't like the feeling that they're being put down by the liberal elite. There's a reason why you listen to experts though - because many of them actually know their shit. I know that a farmer/coal miner/factory worker might feel that educated people are looking down on them - but what if it were reversed? What if the liberals told these people that they didn't need their "ivory tower expertise" on how to plant crops/dig coal/work in a factory because what did those people even know about anything? Why does mr "I'm a fancy farmer with a tractor and 20 years of experience in running a farm" get to tell US what we can and can't grow in Idaho in February? Who is HE to tell US what we should do?
You know who he is? He's the expert. The guy you should listen to when it comes to farming. Not because he's got a fancy tractor, but because he knows how to grow stuff and if we fail at growing stuff, we don't eat. That's why we should have someone with experience and education running the department of HUD, the CDC, the DOE, etc. Because they are less likely to mess it up, and these are things that you probably don't want messed up.
When your 3-year old insists on dressing himself, you let him do it because he needs to learn and it's no biggie if he wears mismatched clothing that is buttoned incorrectly all day. This isn't the correct approach to take when running government agencies of a nation with 300+ million people. If the worst happens, we won't be running around with mismatched shoes and a shirt that doesn't go with our pants. Instead, we'll be dealing with an out of control epidemic, nuclear weapons that are unreliable and people who die because of it.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jan 15, 2017 18:34:38 GMT
Our memories are very clearly colored by our biases. I remember very clearly people making dummies of President Obama, lynching and burning them. I remember signs with a picture of a noose saying "Hang in there, Obama." I remember signs with him dressed up like a witch doctor. I remember a large segment of the population for months--YEARS on end--questioning his birth certificate/ legitimacy to be president. I remember so much hate. And I don't disagree, Katy with what you are saying. But I contend that it was a small and SICK part of the population doing it. That is happening still. Have you seen the "Rape Melania" signs. This sort of thing will always happen. But I have NEVER seen death threats issued to a performer before just because he/she agreed to be part of the Inauguration. EVERY president has had his haters. I well remember the ugliness against Reagan (perhaps you are too young) and he will go down as one of our most beloved presidents of all time. But this is the worst it has ever been. My contention is that displaying the same ugliness and hatred towards the person you hate makes you exactly like them! Somewhere in this mess, decent citizens have to stand up and say enough! Let's return to civility and civil criticism. Let's stop the death threats. But don't you get it? The death threats and the over the top hate are still coming from "a small and SICK part" of the population. I don't know anyone here or in real life that would ever condone a "Rape Melania" sign. I contend that most criticism--even here--is civil. I will admit that there is a lot of it, so maybe the sheer quantity is making you feel like it's ALL hateful. But I think if you look with an open and honest heart, you will see it is civil (just not what you agree with ). I will continue to stand up for what I believe in and criticize when I feel something is wrong or unjust. I will continue to do it in a civil manner. I will attend the Women's March on Austin next weekend. I will not be hateful.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 15, 2017 18:34:39 GMT
Are you REALLY equating the hate being thrown against Trump to anything that was said about Obama?? Really!! I do not remember ONE person attempting to keep a performer from singing at Obama's Inauguration. I don't remember crowds of people making plans to keep their fellow citizens from attending the Inauguration! The hate that is being expressed against Trump is unprecedented and it is ugly. No they just st spent 8 years denying his birth certificate, calling him names, calling his wife names, insisting his religion is not what he claims it to be, threatening to deport him and on and on, having nothing to do with him, or what he said or his policies. 8 years of freakin racist memes in the internet and I'm sick of it. And if you know me at all from this board I am not and never was an Obama supporter, but yes the man was vilified daily. Do I really NEED to google and post the memes where they were compared to various primates?? Seriously? Did you miss it where the first Lady was called an ape in heels?? Or the memes of Pres Obama as a monkey? If anything president Obama had to deal with unprecedented HATEsimpky because he was black. WHICH btw sucked for anyone who disagreed with him on policy issues because now we were all called racists. So YES Obama Dealt with much much more un-instigated hate then Trump has to deal with. If Trump would stop tweeting STUPID stuff trying to stir the pot people would have much less to talk about. But he refuses-so whatever. he reaps the discord he sows. And this is why I comment on the awful memes posted here about Trump. Trump is a jerk and a bully and a very awful person BUT 2 wrongs do not make a right and posting stupid memes won't help anything. It clouds the conversation and will end up backfiring as it did with Obama Speak out against his policies, against his tweeting, against his utter disregard for the office he is taking, about his deep conflicts of interest there is a rather long list of VALID issues HE is creating with his OWN behavior - which BTW is unprecedented. But the stupud memes are just stupid.
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Post by Karene on Jan 15, 2017 18:35:22 GMT
Care needs to be taken so that what he says and does is not normalized. If everyone treated this inauguration like any other, that helps to normalize it.
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Post by lovetodigi on Jan 15, 2017 18:38:35 GMT
I am more than a little dismayed by all this. I hesitate to even express my views on this as conservatives have pretty much stopped posting on political posts on this forum and I'm one of them. But I feel strongly enough about this that I'm going to take the chance. I wonder how Trump will ever be able to do his job with all the hate that has been thrown his way. Do I like him? Not particularly. Does he worry me? Yes. But I do not think he is the monster that he is being portrayed. Whether we like him or not he IS our president for the next four years (unless he is assassinated which I am beginning to believe is a strong possibility with all the hate that is thrown his way--and then everyone will gasp and say "We didn't mean it to go THAT far!!!). I believe that he is every bit the monster that he is showing himself to be. If someone shows you who they are, believe them. Isn't that the old saying? He shows it in his speeches, he shows it in his tweets, he shows it in his choices, he shows it when he trashes the intelligence agencies, he shows it in everything that is him. This is not stuff misconstrued or stuff that others have said/done that are being projected on him. It is sad when he shows more respect for Putin than he does John Lewis. He is doing this all by his free will and choice...because it is who he is. I think that he is trashing the intelligence agency to try to do to them what he is trying to do to the news agencies, trash them and try to get them to the point where people won't believe any stories that might come out about him. He is a sick, sick man. Do I wish him dead, no. However, I will cry no tears, except tears of joy, if and when he is impeached and run out of office. Unless Russia also has the main members of Congress blackmailed too, I suspect that he will not even make it a year before he will be gone. I just hope that the country can recover from the damage that will happen from whatever time he is in there. He is already causing some damage and he hasn't even taken office yet. Thank you snowsilver for admitting that you too, have a fear of him being President.
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Post by snowsilver on Jan 15, 2017 18:39:08 GMT
And I don't disagree, Katy with what you are saying. But I contend that it was a small and SICK part of the population doing it. That is happening still. Have you seen the "Rape Melania" signs. This sort of thing will always happen. But I have NEVER seen death threats issued to a performer before just because he/she agreed to be part of the Inauguration. EVERY president has had his haters. I well remember the ugliness against Reagan (perhaps you are too young) and he will go down as one of our most beloved presidents of all time. But this is the worst it has ever been. My contention is that displaying the same ugliness and hatred towards the person you hate makes you exactly like them! Somewhere in this mess, decent citizens have to stand up and say enough! Let's return to civility and civil criticism. Let's stop the death threats. Nobody here is saying that they condone the death threats. And I would venture to guess that it is a "small and sick part of the population" doing that as well. I also haven't seen "rape Melania" signs or heard about people trying to stop people from going to the inauguration. Source? Kristin, here's one source: link I read this morning that Bikers for Trump intend to do their part to stop these people--and all I can think is how much a recipe this is for violence. On BOTH parts.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 15, 2017 18:44:12 GMT
Nobody here is saying that they condone the death threats. And I would venture to guess that it is a "small and sick part of the population" doing that as well. I also haven't seen "rape Melania" signs or heard about people trying to stop people from going to the inauguration. Source? Kristin, here's one source: link I read this morning that Bikers for Trump intend to do their part to stop these people--and all I can think is how much a recipe this is for violence. On BOTH parts. I do not consider Fox News to be a credible news source.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,169
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Jan 15, 2017 18:44:26 GMT
And I don't disagree, Katy with what you are saying. But I contend that it was a small and SICK part of the population doing it. That is happening still. Have you seen the "Rape Melania" signs. This sort of thing will always happen. But I have NEVER seen death threats issued to a performer before just because he/she agreed to be part of the Inauguration. EVERY president has had his haters. I well remember the ugliness against Reagan (perhaps you are too young) and he will go down as one of our most beloved presidents of all time. But this is the worst it has ever been. My contention is that displaying the same ugliness and hatred towards the person you hate makes you exactly like them! Somewhere in this mess, decent citizens have to stand up and say enough! Let's return to civility and civil criticism. Let's stop the death threats. Nobody here is saying that they condone the death threats. And I would venture to guess that it is a "small and sick part of the population" doing that as well. I also haven't seen "rape Melania" signs or heard about people trying to stop people from going to the inauguration. Source? Source: link
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jan 15, 2017 18:50:05 GMT
Nobody here is saying that they condone the death threats. And I would venture to guess that it is a "small and sick part of the population" doing that as well. I also haven't seen "rape Melania" signs or heard about people trying to stop people from going to the inauguration. Source? Kristin, here's one source: link I read this morning that Bikers for Trump intend to do their part to stop these people--and all I can think is how much a recipe this is for violence. On BOTH parts. Your link is bad, but I googled. It seems that the Facebook group promoting this has 1,700 Facebook Members and that 200 attended an organizational meeting. That--to me--is a small and sick group. Not even a FRACTION of the people who will protest peacefully. If anyone is violent or tries to block attendees or breaks any laws at all--then they should absolutely be arrested.
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Post by peatlejuice on Jan 15, 2017 19:05:16 GMT
I don't know, Elise. Are you really claiming that people protesting inauguration performers are worse than those who burned and hung effigies of Obama? I also live in Trump country and while we didn't have effigies in the city, I saw at least two outside of town, and heard many people talk about how "that (slur word) better not come to our state or else I'll show him what happened to misbehaving slaves" (a real quote from an ex-friend's brother). The hate isn't unprecedented, and I'd argue that it was far more ugly in 2008 than now. NO, I am definitely not saying that. There is little uglier than burning effigies. But really, just how many people actually did that!! Being honest. I do not remember it being masses. Again, have you seen the "Rape Melania" signs? Have you read some of the comments on various news threads about her, Barron, Ivanka, etc. etc.? I have, and they are as revolting as it is possible to be. It happens on both sides. And you and I will have to disagree about it being uglier in 2008. I do not remember any concerted effort to block entries to DC to keep those wishing to attend Obama's Inauguration from being able to do so. In my area of Trump country, the Obama hate was pretty strong. At a minimum, I'd say the hate then was at least equal to the hate now, but YMMV. I haven't seen the "Rape Melania" signs, but I did do a Google search after reading your comment. The only results I found indicated that only one such sign was ever made (which is one too many), and there are strong indications that it may have been planted by a pro-Trump supporter trying to discredit protesters. It was also noted that the general response by anti-Trump supporters to the sign was outrage, not support. I no longer read comments on news stories because 99.9% of them are horrible, trollish word vomit by both sides on any topic. But I have no doubt they are as awful as the ones I used to see about the Obama girls and the Bush girls before them, and yep, they are vile. I would encourage you, though, to not use the comments section as your barometer. I do hope that you didn't think that I was trying to insinuate that the ugliness doesn't exist on both sides. I'm aware it does, and each side's inability to work with each other is a large part of why I affiliate as Independent. We most certainly can agree to disagree on whether the level of hate is worse now - I respect you for being willing to debate it with me and not taking it personally when we disagree.
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Post by snowsilver on Jan 15, 2017 19:12:16 GMT
Are you REALLY equating the hate being thrown against Trump to anything that was said about Obama?? Really!! I do not remember ONE person attempting to keep a performer from singing at Obama's Inauguration. I don't remember crowds of people making plans to keep their fellow citizens from attending the Inauguration! The hate that is being expressed against Trump is unprecedented and it is ugly. No they just st spent 8 years denying his birth certificate, calling him names, calling his wife names, insisting his religion is not what he claims it to be, threatening to deport him and on and on, having nothing to do with him, or what he said or his policies. 8 years of freakin racist memes in the internet and I'm sick of it. And if you know me at all from this board I am not and never was an Obama supporter, but yes the man was vilified daily. Do I really NEED to google and post the memes where they were compared to various primates?? Seriously? Did you miss it where the first Kady was called an ape in heels?? Or the memes of Pres Obama as a monkey? If anything president Obama had to deal with unprecedented HATEsimpky because he was black. WHICH btw sucked for anyone who disagreed with him on policy issues because now we were all called racists. So YES Obama Dealt with much much more in instigated hate then Trump has to deal with. If Trump would stop tweeting STUPID stuff trying to stir the pot people would have much less to talk about. But he refuses so whatever he reaps the discord he sows. And this is why I comment on the awful memes posted here about Trump. Trump is a jerk and a bully and a very awful person BUT 2 wrongs do not make a right and posting stupid memes won't help anything. It clouds the conversation and will end up backfiring as it did with Obama Speak out against his policies, against his tweeting, against his utter disregard for the office he is taking, about his deep conflicts of interest there is a rather long list of VALID issues HE is creating with his OWN behavior - which BTW is unprecedented. But the stupud memes are just stupid. Hop, I DO consider you one of the voices of reason here. And yes, there were miserable things said about Obama. But, if I remember right, you were here during the Bush years too. Surely you remember the absolute disdain shown him and the horrible things said about him. His IQ was one of the big ones I remember (and the actual fact is that his mid-range amongst American presidents--I think it was 140 or something like that). He, too, was pictured as a monkey regularly (surely you remember that). And GWB is a nice, decent guy with considerable class, but it didn't stop the liberals on this list from some of the most mean-spirited commentary imaginable (I remember because I considered leaving the list it got so ugly). So it does happen to EVERY president. I am certainly not saying that Trump is not begging for criticism--he most definitely is. My concern is that the same ridicule is being heaped on those who would want to give him a chance. And I am opposed to that.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 15, 2017 19:13:22 GMT
As the singer from the MoTab Choir said, she didn't want to be remembered as someone who "threw roses to Hitler." Most of us have studied 20th century fascists and despots and power-hungry partisans of every stripe - including a conservative U.S. senator who really DID mastermind a Hollywood blacklist. The theme is always regret. Regret that things were allowed to happen without comment or intervention...that the clarion bell was not sounded early enough...that complacency and self-interest turned inexorably to impotence and submission. Are we at that point? No. Are we seeing increasingly disturbing signs? Yes. Until a couple weeks ago, I thought we should view the inauguration within the context of the presidency, not the man. Entertainers should be free to decline, of course, but the whole thing still made me vaguely uneasy. Not anymore. In the last two weeks, Donald Trump's words and actions have convinced me that he is both deplorable and dangerous. And, unfortunately, seemingly irredeemable. I wrote a post about him a couple days ago that shocked even me. But when I go back and re-read the adjectives I listed to describe this man, I don't see hyperbole; I don't see hate speech; I don't see unfairness. I see an honest reaction to a man who CONSTANTLY attacks and CONSTANTLY lies. So now we've got legislators not attending the inauguration. Which also makes me uneasy but not nearly as uneasy as two weeks ago. At this point, I don't see tit-for-tat. I see the fallout from unprecedented provocation, which SHOULD have little to do with political party. Unfortunately, I suspect it will be nearly impossible to convince the range of partisans that this is not tit-for-tat. Especially when our president-elect tells them - daily - to reject facts and evidence in favor of his version of reality...his version of "the enemy within." (And without, actually.) (And for the record, I doubt I will ever think "Oh, 'we' went too far." Because when it comes to my opinions, I'm not part of a "we" or a "they" or a collective "Left," no matter how often group assumptions are bandied about here. Just as I strongly resist any invitation to take responsibility for running ANYbody off this board, I strongly resist the idea of speaking for anybody but myself.) ETA: And of course death treats are wrong. Sadly, they have become de rigueur, though, and are clearly not limited by political ideology. Ask the owner of the D.C. pizza restaurant where the supposed Clinton/Podesta child sex ring operated...or a different pizza joint owner who didn't want to cater a same-sex wedding. Political ideology is no more the common denominator than pizza is.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jan 15, 2017 19:18:53 GMT
So another entertainer won't perform at the inauguration. The news stories, and headlines, say that Jennifer Holliday "backed out" of performing, and here's a CNN article: Jennifer HollidayI read that article twice, and what I took away from it is an entertainer backpeddling and double-talking to save her career; i.e., she was asked to perform, didn't commit, but after it was announced she would perform, she then decided not to. She also received letters from fans and the LGBTQ community stating the disappointment, and then she made the announcement she wouldn't perform. So she really didn't back out of something because she never agreed to perform in the first place, at least according to her and her agent/publicist. A bit confusing. I DO NOT blame her. Entertaining is her career. Without fans she has no career. I saw a short interview with Ben Stein who said "he" knows for a fact there are a lot more Republicans/conservatives in Hollywood than people would know because they know to keep their mouths shut or run the risk of being blacklisted. I have to wonder then, what's really important here? Is (potential) public backlash and/or blacklisting of entertainers meant to sway them, or ruin them? Is silencing people because of fear the way to get a point across? People vote the way they want to vote. And they did. Trump won because of it. You may silence discussion at times but you can't force anyone to change their private vote. #MAGA #Trumpwon #Nobodycaresifyouattendornot #Youstillarentlisteningandwillloseagain
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Post by terri on Jan 15, 2017 19:26:36 GMT
I'm pretty stunned by this statement. The only thing I can think of is that because you are a classy person you avoided the sites that were filled with truly awful things said about Obama and his family for 8 whole years. The constant use of the N word, not to mention the stuff coming out of Trump's own mouth. I heard it in my state in person at least once a week and constantly online. Trump is self admittally a slimeball so I can't get too upset when people say he is, and that they don't want to normalize his behavior by supporting people that associate with him in any capacity. I for one do not consider Trump a legitimate president. Not because the color of his skin makes me think he must have been born in Africa, but because of the mounting evidence that he has much more to do with Russia than previously thought. Of course he could ease some of those fears if he released his taxes, but it is unlikely that will ever happen. The minute Trump invited Russia to hack emails and they complied, is the day I started questioning Trump's loyalty to this country. I think he will resign under pressure as evidence surfaces that show his behavior is illegal and perhaps even treasonous.
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,009
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Jan 15, 2017 19:27:09 GMT
People vote the way they want to vote. And they did. Trump won because of it. You may silence discussion at times but you can't force anyone to change their private vote. #MAGA #Trumpwon #Nobodycaresifyouattendornot #Youstillarentlisteningandwillloseagain I *am* listening, to what the man you voted for is saying. Are you?
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Judy26
Pearl Clutcher
MOTFY Bitchy Nursemaid
Posts: 2,834
Location: NW PA
Jun 25, 2014 23:50:38 GMT
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Post by Judy26 on Jan 15, 2017 19:48:49 GMT
Care needs to be taken so that what he says and does is not normalized. If everyone treated this inauguration like any other, that helps to normalize it. This needs to be repeated over and over. Adolph Hitler was an inspired orator who normalized the near extinction of an entire section of the population of Europe. We must NOT let that happen again. And if that means speaking out against the ilk of Donald Trump then I will be vociferous in my condemnation of the repugnant ideals he stands for. If it makes others uncomfortable then perhaps my words have hit their mark. I will not be vulgar or physically accost another but I will do whatever is in my power to insure that the past is not forgotten or repeated. ALL men are created equal and should be treated with dignity and respect. Conservatives and liberals should be standing together to denounce the horridness that is spewed by Mr. Trump. The fact that we are not together in protecting the weak and vulnerable in our country from him is what is tearing our country apart.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Jan 15, 2017 19:56:56 GMT
Oh, for heaven's sake, Pjaye, I NEVER said he shouldn't be criticized. I am criticizing him myself on a regular basis. But there is a civil way to do it, not this disgusting situation we find ourselves in where those who hate him so much are doing all they can to keep him from doing his job. That hurts ALL OF US! And I can tell you (since I live in Trump territory) it incites all the more anger against the "liberal elite" in the heartland. This is tearing our country apart. Criticize him, yes! But don't act like barbarians while you do it. Don't be as ugly as you are accusing him of being. Who’s keeping him from doing his job? HE is preventing himself from doing his job. Perhaps if he would just put down his phone and do something cogent and constructive instead of waging the pettiest bickerings there might be some respect toward him. Given how little he knows of our Constitution or the pesky laws that govern us, or the nuts and bolts of how governance is conducted, it would aid him (and us) greatly if he would learn those instead of stalking his critics over social media so he can blast them afterwards. Perhaps if he would conduct himself with dignity and integrity people would be more receptive to his presidency. I don’t expect him to follow the codified norms of prior presidents, but I also do not approve of him making a mockery of the Office of the President. I have been around since the Eisenhower era, and I can tell you in all honesty, that throughout my childhood and my adulthood, I had never seen a US President act with such disrespect toward the American people. Ugly? I know ugly first hand. Being called monkey is the least of it. I have been called names that will curl your eyebrows. I have been called names I cannot even spell. THIS small sampling right here is ugly: (Re Judge Curiel) “He’s a Mexican,” Trump told CNN of Curiel. “We’re building a wall between here and Mexico. The answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings — rulings that people can’t even believe.”
(Re Mexicans) “Well, someone’s doing the raping, Don! I mean, somebody’s doing it. Who’s doing the raping? Who’s doing the raping?” — responding to questions about his comments regarding Latino immigrants and rape.
(Re Obama’s citizenship) "He doesn't have a birth certificate, or if he does, there's something on that certificate that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'religion,' it might have 'Muslim.' And if you're a Muslim, you don't change your religion, by the way."
(Re Muslims) Trump commented there should be many systems “beyond databases” and he’d get Muslims registered by using “good management.” When asked by a reporter, “Is there a difference between requiring Muslims to register and Jews in Nazi Germany?” Trump responded, “You tell me.”
(Re Chinese) During a speech at an event in Iowa on August 26 talking about what a great negotiator he is, especially when dealing with the Chinese, Trump used broken English to impersonate Asian negotiators. “When these people walk into the room…“They say, ‘We want deal!’”
I won’t even bother listing his many outright lies and his sexist, offensive, indecent, or merely outrageous comments. I won’t even bother listing his words and actions that inspired hate crimes. If I had to do all that, I’d need to write a book. He does not need my help in “keeping him from doing his job” simply because he’s doing a marvelous job of that all by himself. (And that’s it from this “barbarian.” Notwithstanding my disagreement, I respect your viewpoints and your courage in stating them.)
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 3, 2024 6:38:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 19:57:58 GMT
I think we have to acknowledge trump is the legitimate president. However we will have to wait and see just how corrupt and authoritarian his presidency will be.
The current actions by trump and the Republicans are not very promising or reassuring.
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Post by putabuttononit on Jan 15, 2017 20:09:41 GMT
And you may be right, Trollie, but someone, somewhere has to stop it. Which side is going to be the most grown-up is the question. I can tell you that many of the posts I see here on this forum are just as divisive and ugly as anything Trump has said. Many of the liberals are acting just like the man they claim to despise. This Inauguration is watched by the world. Why don't we let it proceed with dignity? I can tell you that if it proceeds as it appears it is going to, the liberal faction will be just as much to blame as the new President. Ugly is ugly, no matter which side is doing it. I completely agree. I wonder how many people are really convinced they are standing up for what's right, but in fact they are reacting to the simple fact that they didn't get their way. The election didn't go their way and the media promised it would. Now they have tried every POSSIBLE way to thwart the president elect and somehow get their way. It reminds me of a toddler in the store asking for candy. Ask Mom for candy. Mom says no. Ask dad for candy, dad says no. Scream for candy. No. Kick the cart. No candy. Throw themselves on the floor, kicking and screaming, bawling until snot bubbles out of their noses, exhaust themselves screaming for the candy, and finally sniff and sulk. (Steal a toy on the way out of the store..) Lets see a little dignity, people (not referring to Peas necessarily)
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Post by evnimom on Jan 15, 2017 20:16:25 GMT
It's so nice to see that his supporters are preparing for his failure. His failure will not be his own fault but because of all the hatred thrown his way.
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Post by heather on Jan 15, 2017 20:18:26 GMT
And you may be right, Trollie, but someone, somewhere has to stop it. Which side is going to be the most grown-up is the question. I can tell you that many of the posts I see here on this forum are just as divisive and ugly as anything Trump has said. Many of the liberals are acting just like the man they claim to despise. This Inauguration is watched by the world. Why don't we let it proceed with dignity? I can tell you that if it proceeds as it appears it is going to, the liberal faction will be just as much to blame as the new President. Ugly is ugly, no matter which side is doing it. I completely agree. I wonder how many people are really convinced they are standing up for what's right, but in fact they are reacting to the simple fact that they didn't get their way. The election didn't go their way and the media promised it would. Now they have tried every POSSIBLE way to thwart the president elect and somehow get their way. It reminds me of a toddler in the store asking for candy. Ask Mom for candy. Mom says no. Ask dad for candy, dad says no. Scream for candy. No. Kick the cart. No candy. Throw themselves on the floor, kicking and screaming, bawling until snot bubbles out of their noses, exhaust themselves screaming for the candy, and finally sniff and sulk. (Steal a toy on the way out of the store..) Lets see a little dignity, people (not referring to Peas necessarily) Did you just call for dignity after comparing half the country to spoiled toddlers?
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jan 15, 2017 20:19:18 GMT
And you may be right, Trollie, but someone, somewhere has to stop it. Which side is going to be the most grown-up is the question. I can tell you that many of the posts I see here on this forum are just as divisive and ugly as anything Trump has said. Many of the liberals are acting just like the man they claim to despise. This Inauguration is watched by the world. Why don't we let it proceed with dignity? I can tell you that if it proceeds as it appears it is going to, the liberal faction will be just as much to blame as the new President. Ugly is ugly, no matter which side is doing it. I completely agree. I wonder how many people are really convinced they are standing up for what's right, but in fact they are reacting to the simple fact that they didn't get their way. The election didn't go their way and the media promised it would. Now they have tried every POSSIBLE way to thwart the president elect and somehow get their way. It reminds me of a toddler in the store asking for candy. Ask Mom for candy. Mom says no. Ask dad for candy, dad says no. Scream for candy. No. Kick the cart. No candy. Throw themselves on the floor, kicking and screaming, bawling until snot bubbles out of their noses, exhaust themselves screaming for the candy, and finally sniff and sulk. (Steal a toy on the way out of the store..) Lets see a little dignity, people (not referring to Peas necessarily) So because I don't agree with the President Elect on many (most) issues and choose to speak out in a respectful manner I am like a petulant child who didn't get candy in a store? And a thief, as well? Do you think your post is respectful?
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Judy26
Pearl Clutcher
MOTFY Bitchy Nursemaid
Posts: 2,834
Location: NW PA
Jun 25, 2014 23:50:38 GMT
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Post by Judy26 on Jan 15, 2017 20:19:41 GMT
And you may be right, Trollie, but someone, somewhere has to stop it. Which side is going to be the most grown-up is the question. I can tell you that many of the posts I see here on this forum are just as divisive and ugly as anything Trump has said. Many of the liberals are acting just like the man they claim to despise. This Inauguration is watched by the world. Why don't we let it proceed with dignity? I can tell you that if it proceeds as it appears it is going to, the liberal faction will be just as much to blame as the new President. Ugly is ugly, no matter which side is doing it. I completely agree. I wonder how many people are really convinced they are standing up for what's right, but in fact they are reacting to the simple fact that they didn't get their way. The election didn't go their way and the media promised it would. Now they have tried every POSSIBLE way to thwart the president elect and somehow get their way. It reminds me of a toddler in the store asking for candy. Ask Mom for candy. Mom says no. Ask dad for candy, dad says no. Scream for candy. No. Kick the cart. No candy. Throw themselves on the floor, kicking and screaming, bawling until snot bubbles out of their noses, exhaust themselves screaming for the candy, and finally sniff and sulk. (Steal a toy on the way out of the store..) Lets see a little dignity, people (not referring to Peas necessarily) I think Trump has the toddler tantrum thing down pat. Citizens voicing concern over his hate filled diatribes does not constitute a lack of dignity.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,947
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Jan 15, 2017 20:21:32 GMT
And you may be right, Trollie, but someone, somewhere has to stop it. Which side is going to be the most grown-up is the question. I can tell you that many of the posts I see here on this forum are just as divisive and ugly as anything Trump has said. Many of the liberals are acting just like the man they claim to despise. This Inauguration is watched by the world. Why don't we let it proceed with dignity? I can tell you that if it proceeds as it appears it is going to, the liberal faction will be just as much to blame as the new President. Ugly is ugly, no matter which side is doing it. I completely agree. I wonder how many people are really convinced they are standing up for what's right, but in fact they are reacting to the simple fact that they didn't get their way. The election didn't go their way and the media promised it would. Now they have tried every POSSIBLE way to thwart the president elect and somehow get their way. It reminds me of a toddler in the store asking for candy. Ask Mom for candy. Mom says no. Ask dad for candy, dad says no. Scream for candy. No. Kick the cart. No candy. Throw themselves on the floor, kicking and screaming, bawling until snot bubbles out of their noses, exhaust themselves screaming for the candy, and finally sniff and sulk. (Steal a toy on the way out of the store..) Lets see a little dignity, people (not referring to Peas necessarily) I'm not sure how we can say this to you and be any clearer. Most all of us have stated that we don't care that a republican is President, we care that Trump is President. If anyone else from the Republican Party had been put forth I wouldn't care, hell, I may have actually voted for them. He is a vile man and I will NEVER be okay with it. And if that makes me seem like a bratty child because I refuse to go along with racism, misogyny and homophobia then I'll wear the badge proudly.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 15, 2017 20:22:15 GMT
I am more than a little dismayed by all this. I hesitate to even express my views on this as conservatives have pretty much stopped posting on political posts on this forum and I'm one of them. But I feel strongly enough about this that I'm going to take the chance. I wonder how Trump will ever be able to do his job with all the hate that has been thrown his way. Do I like him? Not particularly. Does he worry me? Yes. But I do not think he is the monster that he is being portrayed. Whether we like him or not he IS our president for the next four years (unless he is assassinated which I am beginning to believe is a strong possibility with all the hate that is thrown his way--and then everyone will gasp and say "We didn't mean it to go THAT far!!!). There are many stars who would have performed (Andrea Bocelli is a good example) but received absolute death threats if they did! This is wrong in every conceivable way. So YOU don't like him! Fine. But you (general you) have NO RIGHT to try to stop others from being part of his big day. And make no mistake--that is exactly what is happening. I am disgusted by the plans to keep people from attending the Inauguration. Donald Trump won the election. Every other president in history has been allowed an Inauguration Day. It is part of our political process. From death threats to implied threats of destruction of careers if one has anything to do with Trump--this is so un-American I can't believe it. Defend it all you want, but I am telling you that by doing so, YOU are part of what is tearing this country apart. While I agree with your ideal--that no one should be forced or threatened, I think that because of the man he is, people who are refusing and/or boycotting are exercising their rights to peacefully do so. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone choosing not to perform because of realizing that their choice affects their livelihood and fan base or that they fear for their safety. With this PE's inaugural festivities, we don't know all who he asked and/or who refused, and at some point there are people who just have to realize that he is not well liked at all. He is not a nice person and aggressively attacks anyone who does not agree with him or who won't bend to his will. People see that and react. He himself has created his persona, and his faults are his own. It would be different if it was really media spinning "he said/she said" gossip, but it's not. The words come out of his mouth. The violence and death threats are wrong no matter who does them, I think that most would agree with that. Sure every PE should have his/her inauguration. But to say all the horrible and inappropriate things he does about it, the people he cannot get, those who refuse, or his boasts about the losers who won't be there, well people find that irritating, offensive and are reacting to it. It's not a surprise as he showed everyone who he was, is, and continues to be. I don't condone violence, threats are wrong no matter who is giving them, and I refused to take any responsibility or blame for those who do.
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Jan 15, 2017 20:27:43 GMT
And you may be right, Trollie, but someone, somewhere has to stop it. Which side is going to be the most grown-up is the question. I can tell you that many of the posts I see here on this forum are just as divisive and ugly as anything Trump has said. Many of the liberals are acting just like the man they claim to despise. This Inauguration is watched by the world. Why don't we let it proceed with dignity? I can tell you that if it proceeds as it appears it is going to, the liberal faction will be just as much to blame as the new President. Ugly is ugly, no matter which side is doing it. I completely agree. I wonder how many people are really convinced they are standing up for what's right, but in fact they are reacting to the simple fact that they didn't get their way. The election didn't go their way and the media promised it would. Now they have tried every POSSIBLE way to thwart the president elect and somehow get their way. It reminds me of a toddler in the store asking for candy. Ask Mom for candy. Mom says no. Ask dad for candy, dad says no. Scream for candy. No. Kick the cart. No candy. Throw themselves on the floor, kicking and screaming, bawling until snot bubbles out of their noses, exhaust themselves screaming for the candy, and finally sniff and sulk. (Steal a toy on the way out of the store..) Lets see a little dignity, people (not referring to Peas necessarily) Seriously? Three pages of rational discussion and then you just likened more than half your country to spoiled thieving toddlers? And you wonder why conversations go bad?!
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