Deleted
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May 12, 2024 8:42:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 17:42:22 GMT
linkThe New York Times wrote "California Farmers Backed trump but Now Fear Losing Field Workers". These farmers in the Central Valley came out in support of trump because they liked his message about tax cuts and fewer regulations. But it seems they didn't "hear" the rest of his message about deporting undocumented folks. Now reality is setting in as they watch the so-called normal ICE raids. From the article " But they are hopeful trump, the businessman, would know that farmers had invested millions of dollars into produce that is growing right now, and not being able to pick and sell those crops would represent huge losses for the state's economy. "I'm confident that he can grasp the magnitude and anxiety of what's happening now."
I have my doubts trump can "grasp" much of anything unless it benefits him personally. And if he does "grasp the magnitude of what's happening" it's happening in California which is not one of his favorite States. Especially since a huge chunk of that popular vote came from California. But what I find interesting is these farmers have knowingly hired undocumented workers for decades. Ignoring the 1986 Immigration Reform Act that they verify the folks they hire can legally work in this country. But somehow it's only all those undocumented folks fault that we have the immigration mess we have today. In any case this is the first of many "careful for what you wish for" moments for those who voted for trump.
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Post by freecharlie on Feb 18, 2017 17:54:34 GMT
As we aren't able to breathe, clean water becomes more scarce, wages go down, taxes go up, crime goes up, we end up in a depression and in war....
There are going to be a lot of people bitching.
BUT hey, at he isn't a woman or black..
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Post by epeanymous on Feb 18, 2017 18:00:44 GMT
I grew up in the Central Valley of CA (my mother's side of the family had a farm). It's a weird area politically. When I was growing up there in the 70s and 80s, we always had a Democratic congressional rep (the infamous Tony Coehlo followed by the infamous Gary Condit) but the area voted solidly R for president. Incredibly socially conservative despite the proximity to SF. But it liked having D's in Congress because it got the area $$$$ for farm support. It was also diverse in weird ways -- very few African-Americans, a small (for CA) Asian population, and a large Latino population. There was a lot of anti-Mexican bias, so don't get me wrong when I say this, but there wasn't a general "go back to Mexico" sentiment, even though there were many undocumented immigrants.
I think farmers in that area have been dependent on undocumented workers forever and assumed that a pro-business GOP pres would be like every other pro-business GOP candidate, and didn't accurately read the nativist, nationalist thread of Trump's rhetoric as anything more than a campaign tactic. It turns out to be at the core of his presidency--note that he can't even distance himself from antisemitic supporters--and he certainly isn't going to temper the deportations so popular with his base in order to appease anyone in enemy-state California.
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Post by micheley on Feb 18, 2017 18:00:53 GMT
Thank you so much to all those people who said "every politician makes campaign promises" or "checks and balances!!" or calm down lighten up stfu get over it he won give him a chance blah blah blah.  |
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Feb 18, 2017 18:42:46 GMT
I grew up in the Central Valley of CA (my mother's side of the family had a farm). It's a weird area politically. When I was growing up there in the 70s and 80s, we always had a Democratic congressional rep (the infamous Tony Coehlo followed by the infamous Gary Condit) but the area voted solidly R for president. Incredibly socially conservative despite the proximity to SF. But it liked having D's in Congress because it got the area $$$$ for farm support. It was also diverse in weird ways -- very few African-Americans, a small (for CA) Asian population, and a large Latino population. There was a lot of anti-Mexican bias, so don't get me wrong when I say this, but there wasn't a general "go back to Mexico" sentiment, even though there were many undocumented immigrants. I think farmers in that area have been dependent on undocumented workers forever and assumed that a pro-business GOP pres would be like every other pro-business GOP candidate, and didn't accurately read the nativist, nationalist thread of Trump's rhetoric as anything more than a campaign tactic. It turns out to be at the core of his presidency--note that he can't even distance himself from antisemitic supporters--and he certainly isn't going to temper the deportations so popular with his base in order to appease anyone in enemy-state California. Thanks for sharing this insight. It's really interesting, and helpful in understanding the thinking/situations in areas other than where I live. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 18:51:02 GMT
linkAnd here is another about to feel "careful what you wish for" group of trump supporters. The Atlantic ran this article "Federal Anti-Poverty Programs Primarily Help GOP Base". The article was based, on part, by a study released by The Center on Budget & Policy Priorities, a liberal policy analysis group. I bolded " liberal" so everyone knows what side did this study. But to be honest only liberals would do this type of study. What these folks did was breakdown by group who benefits from the government's anti-poverty programs. The link for the study is in the article. I, like I'm sure a lot of other people who look at the study, was somewhat surprised by what it revealed. From the article. "Republicans want to shrink government. But their core voters benefit from assistance, like the Supplement Nutrition Assistance Program, the most.""Even as Congressional Republicans mobilize for a new drive to retrench federal anti-poverty efforts, whites without a college degree -- the cornerstone of the modern GOP electoral coalition -- have emerged as principal beneficiaries of these programs, according to a study released Thursday morning"."The Center on Budget & Policy Priorities found that in both percentage terms and absolute numbers, federal programs reduced poverty among working-age whites without a college degree more than they did among non-college -educated Hispanics, African Americans, or members of other races, and far more then they did among college-educated adults of any race. The number of these working age whites in fact , exceeded the combined number of non-college educated blacks, Hispanics and members of other races that made such gains."
"Safety-net programs are particularly beneficial for adults without a college degree " wrote the study's authors. "The vast majority of working age adults lifted above the poverty line by government benefits and tax credits are people lacking a college degree.""The study's biggest surprise may be how many of those beneficiaries are the non-college educated whites critical to GOP fortunes.""Largely overlooked in these discussions of these issues to date, however, is the fact that the nation's poverty-reduction programs provide extensive support to adults lacking a college degree, including, working class whites, and that such people would be principal losers under various proposals to cut these programs that emerge in coming months."First up is the ACA. A large chunk that will lose insurance are these folks. Careful what you wish for.....
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,763 
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Post by scrapngranny on Feb 18, 2017 18:59:55 GMT
I live right in the middle of a CA agricultural area. All of the workers in the almond orchards, corn, wheat and dairy farm are Hispanic. My guess is at least 50% or more are illegal. They are doing a job no one else will do. During the elections we were a red district in the middle of all the blue. As we drove around and saw all the Yuge Trump signs on the farms, I could not figure out what Trump promised that was so attractive to these farmers. I knew if the illegals were going to be eliminated, so would their work force.
Now the farmers are in a panic. Almonds are blooming, they will need sprayed. Calfing season is coming up. The dairies will need calf pens managed, etc. We have a large tomato processing plant here in town. When the cannery opens they will need workers also. I seriously can't believe the farmers didn't think this through. White boys will not do these jobs!!
I realize all of the CA electoral votes went to Hillary, so how these clowns voted didn't really cause their problems, but it is fun to rub their noses in what their hero has done to their industry.
People need to realize, on the whole illegals are not the demons they are perceived to be. I don't think our country can function smoothly without them.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by AnotherPea on Feb 18, 2017 19:08:55 GMT
I say, serves them right. You break the law with your hiring practices and then whine because the law is being enforced?
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Post by terri on Feb 18, 2017 19:26:08 GMT
I'm in the car right now on my way back from an area of North Carolina that has a lot of farms and wineries. I was talking to the owner of a 500 acre farm and the owner told me how upset he is about Trump. He told me that they have never been able to get US workers that wanted a job doing the hard physical work of farming. This is in a very conservative area of the state. I have no idea how this person voted but there is no question farmers in the state are distraught about losing workers some of whom these farmers consider family.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,464
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Post by casii on Feb 18, 2017 19:26:58 GMT
I've tried to make some of my family realize that farm crops might be rotting in the fields and the price of their food would rise sharply when the workforce is rounded up, but they are still adamant that this will give jobs to Americans. I ask if they're willing to do these jobs. Crickets. At the end of the day, they don't care. They just want to see what they perceive as lawbreakers sent back to Mexico. Costs & consequences be damned. I imagine that's how they feel until it really hits their pocketbook.
Which Pea works in produce supply and told us about a company attempting to hire over 1000 Americans and only a few actually showed up for work, many late?
Is it crazy that DH and I are ramping up our garden this year?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 18, 2017 19:36:07 GMT
As we aren't able to breathe, clean water becomes more scarce, wages go down, taxes go up, crime goes up, we end up in a depression and in war.... There are going to be a lot of people bitching. BUT hey, at he isn't a woman or black.. Or Hillary. Benghazi!!!! Emails!!!!!! |
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Post by mrssmith on Feb 18, 2017 19:39:31 GMT
Trump will "grasp the magnitude"  I guess that person did not watch the last press conference. If asked he will mention how many electoral college votes he got, call the situation sad or terrible, make another word salad and tell the reporter to shut up and sit down. I always have to laugh (not ha ha, more ruefully) when people talk about "illegals stealing jobs." THESE are the jobs they're doing! And being bussers in restaurants, mowing lawns, doing childcare. Besides there are a lot of undocumented immigrants who PAY TAXES! |
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Post by Scarlet Ohana on Feb 18, 2017 20:36:18 GMT
I live right in the middle of a CA agricultural area. All of the workers in the almond orchards, corn, wheat and dairy farm are Hispanic. My guess is at least 50% or more are illegal. They are doing a job no one else will do. During the elections we were a red district in the middle of all the blue. As we drove around and saw all the Yuge Trump signs on the farms, I could not figure out what Trump promised that was so attractive to these farmers. I knew if the illegals were going to be eliminated, so would their work force. Now the farmers are in a panic. Almonds are blooming, they will need sprayed. Calfing season is coming up. The dairies will need calf pens managed, etc. We have a large tomato processing plant here in town. When the cannery opens they will need workers also. I seriously can't believe the farmers didn't think this through. White boys will not do these jobs!! I realize all of the CA electoral votes went to Hillary, so how these clowns voted didn't really cause their problems, but it is fun to rub their noses in what their hero has done to their industry. People need to realize, on the whole illegals are not the demons they are perceived to be. I don't think our country can function smoothly without them. So true. Like with most everything else this administration has NO IDEA what they are doing. 50% of the work force is A LOT, and I would guess that is about right, probably even higher. It's going to hurt the dumb ass farmers who voted for him, and everyone else who will pay at the supermarket. Milk, produce, baked goods, eggs, and meat. Pretty much everything that you eat on regular basis. It would be catastrophic for our country. |
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 8:42:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 21:55:22 GMT
I guess there's a wide swath of people who won't pay attention to reason, logic and consequences until those things bite them in the ass. As much as they can be told "this isn't a good thing. Here are the nuances, you're not considering..." they shove their fingers in their ears and piss and moan about "illegals, and regulations, and big government' until they are personally confronted with high prices, food poisoning, dangerous job conditions, etc.
Well, if that's the ONLY way they can learn, I hope they learn it - cuz it's all gonna come home to roost.
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Post by psoccer on Feb 18, 2017 22:25:30 GMT
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Post by flanz on Feb 18, 2017 22:32:31 GMT
Trump will "grasp the magnitude" I guess that person did not watch the last press conference. If asked he will mention how many electoral college votes he got, call the situation sad or terrible, make another word salad and tell the reporter to shut up and sit down. I always have to laugh (not ha ha, more ruefully) when people talk about "illegals stealing jobs." THESE are the jobs they're doing! And being bussers in restaurants, mowing lawns, doing childcare. Besides there are a lot of undocumented immigrants who PAY TAXES! Word salad - I haven't heard the phrase until now but it is PERFECT for what Trump spews! |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 18, 2017 23:13:25 GMT
linkAnd here is another about to feel "careful what you wish for" group of trump supporters. The Atlantic ran this article "Federal Anti-Poverty Programs Primarily Help GOP Base". The article was based, on part, by a study released by The Center on Budget & Policy Priorities, a liberal policy analysis group. I bolded " liberal" so everyone knows what side did this study. But to be honest only liberals would do this type of study. What these folks did was breakdown by group who benefits from the government's anti-poverty programs. The link for the study is in the article. I, like I'm sure a lot of other people who look at the study, was somewhat surprised by what it revealed. From the article. "Republicans want to shrink government. But their core voters benefit from assistance, like the Supplement Nutrition Assistance Program, the most.""Even as Congressional Republicans mobilize for a new drive to retrench federal anti-poverty efforts, whites without a college degree -- the cornerstone of the modern GOP electoral coalition -- have emerged as principal beneficiaries of these programs, according to a study released Thursday morning"."The Center on Budget & Policy Priorities found that in both percentage terms and absolute numbers, federal programs reduced poverty among working-age whites without a college degree more than they did among non-college -educated Hispanics, African Americans, or members of other races, and far more then they did among college-educated adults of any race. The number of these working age whites in fact , exceeded the combined number of non-college educated blacks, Hispanics and members of other races that made such gains."
"Safety-net programs are particularly beneficial for adults without a college degree " wrote the study's authors. "The vast majority of working age adults lifted above the poverty line by government benefits and tax credits are people lacking a college degree.""The study's biggest surprise may be how many of those beneficiaries are the non-college educated whites critical to GOP fortunes.""Largely overlooked in these discussions of these issues to date, however, is the fact that the nation's poverty-reduction programs provide extensive support to adults lacking a college degree, including, working class whites, and that such people would be principal losers under various proposals to cut these programs that emerge in coming months."First up is the ACA. A large chunk that will lose insurance are these folks. Careful what you wish for..... I'm really not surprised. A large portion of the population I work with live primarily off of benefits from the government. I don't know if they actually vote or not, but if/when politics comes up, they seem to be overwhelmingly republican. From what I can tell, mostly because they are also racist and think that it is the black/brown people who should not benefit from the government. But they seem to totally forget that they are Getting at least one form of government assistance. I would also venture to guess that many of the red states in the south also get a lot of benefits from the government. |
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 8:42:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 23:39:37 GMT
linkAnd here is another about to feel "careful what you wish for" group of trump supporters. The Atlantic ran this article "Federal Anti-Poverty Programs Primarily Help GOP Base". The article was based, on part, by a study released by The Center on Budget & Policy Priorities, a liberal policy analysis group. I bolded " liberal" so everyone knows what side did this study. But to be honest only liberals would do this type of study. What these folks did was breakdown by group who benefits from the government's anti-poverty programs. The link for the study is in the article. I, like I'm sure a lot of other people who look at the study, was somewhat surprised by what it revealed. From the article. "Republicans want to shrink government. But their core voters benefit from assistance, like the Supplement Nutrition Assistance Program, the most.""Even as Congressional Republicans mobilize for a new drive to retrench federal anti-poverty efforts, whites without a college degree -- the cornerstone of the modern GOP electoral coalition -- have emerged as principal beneficiaries of these programs, according to a study released Thursday morning"."The Center on Budget & Policy Priorities found that in both percentage terms and absolute numbers, federal programs reduced poverty among working-age whites without a college degree more than they did among non-college -educated Hispanics, African Americans, or members of other races, and far more then they did among college-educated adults of any race. The number of these working age whites in fact , exceeded the combined number of non-college educated blacks, Hispanics and members of other races that made such gains."
"Safety-net programs are particularly beneficial for adults without a college degree " wrote the study's authors. "The vast majority of working age adults lifted above the poverty line by government benefits and tax credits are people lacking a college degree.""The study's biggest surprise may be how many of those beneficiaries are the non-college educated whites critical to GOP fortunes.""Largely overlooked in these discussions of these issues to date, however, is the fact that the nation's poverty-reduction programs provide extensive support to adults lacking a college degree, including, working class whites, and that such people would be principal losers under various proposals to cut these programs that emerge in coming months."First up is the ACA. A large chunk that will lose insurance are these folks. Careful what you wish for..... I'm really not surprised. A large portion of the population I work with live primarily off of benefits from the government. I don't know if they actually vote or not, but if/when politics comes up, they seem to be overwhelmingly republican. From what I can tell, mostly because they are also racist and think that it is the black/brown people who should not benefit from the government. But they seem to totally forget that they are Getting at least one form of government assistance. I would also venture to guess that many of the red states in the south also get a lot of benefits from the government. I was surprised when I looked at the study. Especially since as you said, they are grousing about all the " freebies " others get. I just didn't realize some of the grousers were also getting some of the freebies. I suspect they and a lot of other people are in for a world of hurt if the Republicans have their way. |
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
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Post by used2scrap on Feb 19, 2017 0:40:18 GMT
I'm very sad for what is to come, when the magic promised jobs and cheap amazing healthcare, and great America for "all" does not come to fruition from the billionaires making a killing on Wall Street and selling out the environment, eroding education, wasting tax dollars, lining the Trumps' pockets and eager to send our sons and daughters to more wars.
It is going to be devastating.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 19, 2017 1:05:02 GMT
I'm very sad for what is to come, when the magic promised jobs and cheap amazing healthcare, and great America for "all" does not come to fruition from the billionaires making a killing on Wall Street and selling out the environment, eroding education, wasting tax dollars, lining the Trumps' pockets and eager to send our sons and daughters to more wars. It is going to be devastating. Yup. How many times has trickle down economics been tried and how many times has it been an epic fail for all the people downstream?  |
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Post by Just Beth on Feb 19, 2017 4:54:50 GMT
I was born and still live in San Joaquin County. I think your post describes the area well. I don't post much but I read daily and we have similar opinions. I think people here are getting what they asked for for the most part. And truly it saddens me to the core. This is not the America I raised my 21 and 18yo kids to strive for. I grew up in the Central Valley of CA (my mother's side of the family had a farm). It's a weird area politically. When I was growing up there in the 70s and 80s, we always had a Democratic congressional rep (the infamous Tony Coehlo followed by the infamous Gary Condit) but the area voted solidly R for president. Incredibly socially conservative despite the proximity to SF. But it liked having D's in Congress because it got the area $$$$ for farm support. It was also diverse in weird ways -- very few African-Americans, a small (for CA) Asian population, and a large Latino population. There was a lot of anti-Mexican bias, so don't get me wrong when I say this, but there wasn't a general "go back to Mexico" sentiment, even though there were many undocumented immigrants. I think farmers in that area have been dependent on undocumented workers forever and assumed that a pro-business GOP pres would be like every other pro-business GOP candidate, and didn't accurately read the nativist, nationalist thread of Trump's rhetoric as anything more than a campaign tactic. It turns out to be at the core of his presidency--note that he can't even distance himself from antisemitic supporters--and he certainly isn't going to temper the deportations so popular with his base in order to appease anyone in enemy-state California. |
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Feb 19, 2017 4:59:57 GMT
The first hit on our food supply chain is not enough workers. It's either going to be reduced goods/increased prices because there's not enough workers to harvest or farmers will have to pay so much more money in wages to attract Americans (although I don't think that is very likely - farmers will probably just go bust - they can't realistically pay enough for American workers and the same people who complain about illegal immigrants stealing jobs I'm guessing aren't going to pony up $20/lb for grapes).
The second hit is a trade war with Mexico. This will impact both food coming in and all the ranchers and farmers that export to Mexico (beef, corn, and soybeans are large exports). Often hitting the states like Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, etc that voted for Trump.
Of course there is an option that the government will step in with subsidies or some kind of other program - so the taxpayer ends up paying that way too.
I think the efforts of the administration would be better spent on reform of the system (maybe more H-2A visas like the ones Trump vineyards applied for to bring in foreign workers) instead of mass deportations and building of a wall. The problems are complex and require thoughtful solutions and implementation in a way that does not cause immediate harm. We are going to get hit at once with loss of revenue (illegal immigrants do pay taxes), increased spending (building a wall, cost of deportations, subsidies/programs to help suffering business), and increased prices on food and goods.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
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Post by lizacreates on Feb 20, 2017 0:52:06 GMT
I can’t even comprehend this. It’s not like Trump was making a secret of deportations. During the campaign he was practically shouting from the rooftops that he would deport “millions and millions of undocumented immigrants” (his words). Repeatedly. I’m sorry but I can’t feel sorry for these people who are in a bind now labor-wise with their crops rotting because they were not listening. What did they think was going to happen?
Job losses, foreclosures, rusted-out trailers dotting rusted-out areas inhabited by people on public assistance – what did these people think Trump was going to do? Drain the swamp? His Sec of Treasury is now Mnuchin, the foreclosure king whose company was robo-signing thousands of foreclosures.
He would bring back manufacturing jobs (that have been declining since the 1970s, mind you). Again, did these people stop and think how? He said he’ll be tough on manufacturers that suck the jobs out of America. They didn’t stop to think that manufacturers will manufacture wherever the hell they want to increase their bottom line, whether it be in China or Timbuktu, regardless of who’s the president? He said he would help the coal industry. How can he make coal cheaper than natural gas?
That’s just about as naive as believing Obamacare and ACA are two different things. Hence, we now have Price whose proposal is to roll back Medicaid expansion (which is critical to many of the rural and urban poor), and roll back financial assistance for getting coverage.
Trump can’t even go through a week without some self-created crisis inducing him to run to Florida for weekly validation. Are these rallies creating the jobs he promised? How is constantly fighting with the media creating jobs? Where are the policies that would lift impoverished counties out of poverty, drugs and ruin?
It’s the other 65,844,854 people who did not ask for this president that have to suffer the consequences as well – those are the ones I feel sorry for. This is what happens when slogans win over substance.
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I guess that person did not watch the last press conference. If asked he will mention how many electoral college votes he got, call the situation sad or terrible, make another word salad and tell the reporter to shut up and sit down.
