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Post by *leslie* on Feb 20, 2017 19:52:41 GMT
Delivering a premie and being on bedrest for two others, I wouldn't do it. If others want to spin the roulette wheel on the survival of their baby, that's their choice. They will have to live with aftermath if things go bad.
I'm curious what the legal ramifications are if the baby doesn't survive. Could law enforcement or CPS get involved? Haven't there been parents that refuse medical treatment for their child, the child dies and they are arrested? Is this similar?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 7:11:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 20:02:34 GMT
Good questions!
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mimima
Drama Llama
Stay Gold, Ponyboy
Posts: 5,022
Jun 25, 2014 19:25:50 GMT
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Post by mimima on Feb 20, 2017 20:08:41 GMT
I am a Home Birth fan and had my son at home. Having said that, I had a fabulous Licensed Midwife and felt completely safe. I have heard of, but know very few people who advocate, free birth. It is outside my comfort level.
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Post by refugeepea on Feb 20, 2017 20:27:15 GMT
Birth rape is a real issue Rape is a real issue and a real thing. I don't like that term.
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Post by myshelly on Feb 20, 2017 20:32:26 GMT
Birth rape is a real issue Rape is a real issue and a real thing. I don't like that term. Birth rape is a form of rape and is no less real.
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Post by littlemama on Feb 20, 2017 21:28:01 GMT
I am a neonatal ICU RN. Enough said. Slightly off topic - God Bless you! My ds was in NICU for only 3 days (full term) and the nurses were a God-send. Thank you for what you do.
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Post by anonrefugee on Feb 20, 2017 21:37:22 GMT
This is new to me, and because of personal experience I can't imagine that attitude. Do those involved have a faith, knowledge or narcissism I lack? I cannot begin to understand throwing all medical advancement aside.
There would have been at least one death during my first pregnancy, probably two, if we hadn't been in a hospital. And this was a surprise after a very uneventful, healthy pregnancy.
I wonder too how many women will be pushed towards this by males who think it's a good idea.
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Post by creativegirl on Feb 20, 2017 22:03:53 GMT
I'm 35 weeks pregnant and there is no way in hell Im purposely giving birth to this baby anywhere but a hospital. My goal is to give him and I the best chance for a healthy delivery and that means we deliver in a hospital where we have every resource at our disposal.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Feb 20, 2017 22:14:32 GMT
Medical births have become ridiculous. Freebirths are a response to that. Birth rape is a real issue. Doctors and nurses feeling like they do not need informed consent from a woman just because she is in labor is a real issue. The attitude of hospitals toward birthing women is a real issue. These issues have become ingrained in our society and the way we think and talk about childbirth (how many times have you heads a woman say "my doctor wouldn't let me" or "the hospital wouldn't allow"). Freebirth is desperate and extreme, but the origin of the movement - a reaction against how controlling and demoralizing medical births have become - is something I understand and can get behind. it was a Friday, with a pending nurses strike at midnight, when I went to my Drs office for a routine "check" up which she stripped my membranes without my knowledge or permission. According to their due date I was "over due"- my calculations had me due in two weeks. The baby routinely measured small according to their due date, so much so that I was sent for an extra u-sound to verify everything was ok at one point. But no one would consider my due estimate was correct. After my "check" she told me what she had done and told me to go directly to the hospital. My deliveries were quick and I delivered under a hour later. Dh said Dd was covered with far more/heavier vernix covering her than our other two. Her coloring seemed off- grayish. A week later she was back in the hospital with breathing issues, and continued to be hospitalized for the same until well after her third bday. She was dx'd with RSV at that first hospital stay and bronchitis and/or pneumonia several times in her first three years, along with bronchial asthma and underdeveloped lungs. You can not convince me the DR (not an OB but rather our ex family dr) did not send me into labor to avoid birthing during a possible nursing shortage due to the possible impending strike (which never happened). When I asked her later if that is indeed what she did, she looked totally like a deer caught in the headlights and stammered, "no, I stripped your membranes because the baby was ready to come". Nor can you convince me that DD or her LUNGS were ready "to come". So, I agree with you.
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Post by littlemama on Feb 20, 2017 22:18:23 GMT
Medical births have become ridiculous. Freebirths are a response to that. Birth rape is a real issue. Doctors and nurses feeling like they do not need informed consent from a woman just because she is in labor is a real issue. The attitude of hospitals toward birthing women is a real issue. These issues have become ingrained in our society and the way we think and talk about childbirth (how many times have you heads a woman say "my doctor wouldn't let me" or "the hospital wouldn't allow"). Freebirth is desperate and extreme, but the origin of the movement - a reaction against how controlling and demoralizing medical births have become - is something I understand and can get behind. it was a Friday, with a pending nurses strike at midnight, when I went to my Drs office for a routine "check" up which she stripped my membranes without my knowledge or permission. According to their due date I was "over due"- my calculations had me due in two weeks. The baby routinely measured small according to their due date, so much so that I was sent for an extra u-sound to verify everything was ok at one point. But no one would consider my due estimate was correct. After my "check" she told me what she had done and told me to go directly to the hospital. My deliveries were quick and I delivered under a hour later. Dh said Dd was covered with far more/heavier vernix covering her than our other two. Her coloring seemed off- grayish. A week later she was back in the hospital with breathing issues, and continued to be hospitalized for the same until well after her third bday. She was dx'd with RSV at that first hospital stay and bronchitis and/or pneumonia several times in her first three years, along with bronchial asthma and underdeveloped lungs. You can not convince me the DR (not an OB but rather our ex family dr) did not send me into labor to avoid birthing during a possible nursing shortage due to the possible impending strike (which never happened). When I asked her later if that is indeed what she did, she looked totally like a deer caught in the headlights and stammered, "no, I stripped your membranes because the baby was ready to come". Nor can you convince me that DD or her LUNGS were ready "to come". So, I agree with you. your doctor committed medical malpractice. The vast majority of doctors would not behave in that manner. I'm sorry for your experience and your daughter's resulting health issues.
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Post by Merge on Feb 20, 2017 22:38:04 GMT
My oldest daughter and I both would have died in a freebirth scenario, so I wouldn't have been around to deliver the younger one.
Sometimes "my doctor wouldn't let me" or "the hospital wouldn't allow" means "it wasn't medically advisable for me to go through with whatever super-perfect birthing scenario I had cooked up in my head." The pressure for women to deliver without medication and with as little intervention as possible is intense - or at least, it was in 2001. I felt far more violated by the women who looked down on me because my first labor ended with a hospital transfer and emergency c-section than by the midwife and on-call OB who made those life-saving decisions. I fought hard against every intervention they wanted to do and delayed them as long as possible.
I lived and my daughter lived because they insisted. I am not a medical professional and, after 24 hours of unmedicated labor and 8 months of "natural birth is the only real birth" brainwashing, was not in a frame of mind to make a good decision. I have a hard time with someone referring to that as "rape."
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Post by myshelly on Feb 20, 2017 22:40:42 GMT
My oldest daughter and I both would have died in a freebirth scenario, so I wouldn't have been around to deliver the younger one. Sometimes "my doctor wouldn't let me" or "the hospital wouldn't allow" means "it wasn't medically advisable for me to go through with whatever super-perfect birthing scenario I had cooked up in my head." The pressure for women to deliver without medication and with as little intervention as possible is intense - or at least, it was in 2001. I felt far more violated by the women who looked down on me because my first labor ended with a hospital transfer and emergency c-section than by the midwife and on-call OB who made those life-saving decisions. I fought hard against every intervention they wanted to do and delayed them as long as possible. I lived and my daughter lived because they insisted. I am not a medical professional and, after 24 hours of unmedicated labor and 8 months of "natural birth is the only real birth" brainwashing, was not in a frame of mind to make a good decision. I have a hard time with someone referring to that as "rape." No one is referring to that as rape. That is not the type of scenario that anyone would refer to as birth rape.
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Post by tara on Feb 20, 2017 22:57:58 GMT
My birthing days are over, but I can envision my husbands face if I wanted to do this. He would do his best impression of Gone With the Wind and say I don't know nothing about birthing babies.
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Post by workingclassdog on Feb 20, 2017 22:58:14 GMT
I hate "birth rape" term as well.. and nothing will change my mind on it. I'm not Googling it, is that a 'real' term or made up?
I think that the only issue I had was all the people who insisted that I breastfeed my baby (my first one especially). I was put down and 'talked' down too. Not their business but they sure did make it their business. No one chooses something like that lightly. I could say I was 'raped' by words on that issue. But I don't..
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 20, 2017 23:01:54 GMT
I think it's terribly unfortunate that someone is in an area so lacking in child birth options that they would resort to an unassisted birth. I chose to give birth at a hospital with a Level 4 Neonatal Unit. I thought they did an excellent job in providing an area that was comfortable for women in labor. I found an OB I was 100% confident and comfortable with - and met all of the other doctors in her practice to be sure that no matter who attended my delivery, I would be comfortable.
I know many people who've chosen to use midwives - sometimes within a hospital, sometimes a stand alone birthing center, and sometimes at home. If one is in close proximity to emergency services, it is not statistically higher risk for healthy women with normal pregnancies. The leap to a birth with no assistance at all is a big leap. It's a risk I just can't fathom - particularly as they shouldn't need to take that risk in order to prevent being traumatized.
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Post by myshelly on Feb 20, 2017 23:03:33 GMT
I hate "birth rape" term as well.. and nothing will change my mind on it. I'm not Googling it, is that a 'real' term or made up? I think that the only issue I had was all the people who insisted that I breastfeed my baby (my first one especially). I was put down and 'talked' down too. Not their business but they sure did make it their business. No one chooses something like that lightly. I could say I was 'raped' by words on that issue. But I don't.. Do you know what the term refers to though? I can't imagine any woman being against the term unless she just doesn't know what it means. It is a real term. It has been in the news a lot lately because we have seen the first cases of doctors and nurses facing assault and sexual assault charges for actions they have taken against patients during labor and delivery. Birth rape is the idea that a woman does not lose the ability or right to consent or not consent to what happens to her body because she is in labor. It is the idea that another person never has the right to insert foreign objects or parts of their body into your vagina. It doesn't matter if the other person is a stranger, a relative, a coed, a doctor, or a nurse. It doesn't matter if you are sober, drunk, or in labor. No means no. It is the idea that no always means no.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Feb 20, 2017 23:18:38 GMT
I bet these same women will "unschool" those same babies some day...
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Post by tara on Feb 20, 2017 23:46:57 GMT
I bet these same women will "unschool" those same babies some day... And be advocates of "free range parenting."
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Post by snugglebutter on Feb 21, 2017 0:05:00 GMT
Yes, I'm familiar with it. A woman in my community (I knew her from some local mom groups) did this with her second pregnancy, and did all her own "prenatal care" too. Baby was born small, breech and not breathing. While waiting doing CPR and for paramedics - surprise - baby's twin was born. (thankfully with no complications)
Except it wasn't so much of a surprise for mom. She had posted threads on a couple of granola message boards during the pregnancy (using her name as her screen name) about suspecting twins and some questions she had. She wouldn't confirm this with a healthcare professional because she didn't want to give up her unassisted birth. Her foolishness nearly cost her her child and he lives with severe handicaps. This wasn't a case of someone who couldn't afford healthcare. She had her first at a birth center, so no nightmare hospital experience either. She just latched onto an extreme ideal and put that ideal before her family.
(And for someone who asked further up in the thread, CPS was involved. They moved out of the county several years later to get out from under their nose.)
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Post by AussieMeg on Feb 21, 2017 0:12:49 GMT
Is it awfully judgemental of me to suggest that "freebirthers" are also likely to be placenta-eating anti-vaxxers?
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Post by lucyg on Feb 21, 2017 0:14:49 GMT
I bet these same women will "unschool" those same babies some day... And be advocates of "free range parenting." Hey! Do not lump us free-range moms in with the freebirthers and unschoolers. hmmph ...
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Post by littlemama on Feb 21, 2017 1:04:02 GMT
My birthing days are over, but I can envision my husbands face if I wanted to do this. He would do his best impression of Gone With the Wind and say I don't know nothing about birthing babies. The fact that your peaname is Tara makes this scenario complete.
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Post by tara on Feb 21, 2017 1:27:44 GMT
My birthing days are over, but I can envision my husbands face if I wanted to do this. He would do his best impression of Gone With the Wind and say I don't know nothing about birthing babies. The fact that your peaname is Tara makes this scenario complete. Lol. Well it was my mom's favorite movie.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2017 1:39:52 GMT
yeah, women did it for thousands of years on their own. Oh and completely "unrelated" women and children died in childbirth at alarming rates for thousands of years too. gee. Anyone who doesn't think birthing a baby is a medical procedure doesn't understand that for thousands of years the number 1 killer of women was childbirth. What changed that? Modern medicine and surgical techniques.
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Post by melanell on Feb 21, 2017 1:43:24 GMT
I have heard of it, and I can definitely understand the draw of doing that, but ultimately it wouldn't be something I would be willing to do.
But I support the right of someone else to do it, provided that they don't attempt to place blame on anyone else if things don't go right. There are certainly no guarantees with childbirth and I wouldn't want to see a couple or a mother later trying to blame medical professionals for not stopping them from choosing this route.
If you decide that this is right for you, I feel you need to own that choice.
But overall, I wish with all my heart that every woman who chooses this method finds nothing but happiness with their choice. I know it's not a realistic wish, but it's my wish for them nonetheless.
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
Jul 12, 2014 21:58:10 GMT
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Post by pridemom on Feb 21, 2017 4:09:32 GMT
I am a Home Birth fan and had my son at home. Having said that, I had a fabulous Licensed Midwife and felt completely safe. I have heard of, but know very few people who advocate, free birth. It is outside my comfort level. I agree. I would have had my children at home, but my state did not allow nurse midwives to attend home births at the time. When I was unhappy with my son's delivery, I found a doctor in the next city who promised he would ensure things were better. And they were. I
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Post by anonrefugee on Feb 21, 2017 13:57:49 GMT
workingclassdog and @merge, your posts made me tear up. The judgement and superior attitudes by other women can be so cruel at a vulnerable time. I'm a little surprised your posts hit me this way, it was so long ago, but I remember. I understand the joy (victorious?) feeling women get when Their Birth Plan is successful. I don't understand how they lose compassion or sensitivity for others where it didn't. After almost two decades I don't think my tears are for me, but for others in the position. I would hope we had evolved more.
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Post by anonrefugee on Feb 21, 2017 14:00:50 GMT
Is it awfully judgemental of me to suggest that "freebirthers" are also likely to be placenta-eating anti-vaxxers? Just imagine the tshirt graphic.
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Post by disneypal on Feb 21, 2017 14:05:33 GMT
That method worked for centuries, but I would feel too risky doing it. I was going to say the same thing - people did it for centuries - however, death rates for moms and babies were much higher too. Not sure why you would take this route when you have doctors and such available to you now. So many things can go wrong - it is safer and less risky if you are already in the hospital. Save
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Feb 21, 2017 14:23:23 GMT
Medical births have become ridiculous. Freebirths are a response to that. Birth rape is a real issue. Doctors and nurses feeling like they do not need informed consent from a woman just because she is in labor is a real issue. The attitude of hospitals toward birthing women is a real issue. These issues have become ingrained in our society and the way we think and talk about childbirth (how many times have you heads a woman say "my doctor wouldn't let me" or "the hospital wouldn't allow"). Freebirth is desperate and extreme, but the origin of the movement - a reaction against how controlling and demoralizing medical births have become - is something I understand and can get behind. it was a Friday, with a pending nurses strike at midnight, when I went to my Drs office for a routine "check" up which she stripped my membranes without my knowledge or permission. According to their due date I was "over due"- my calculations had me due in two weeks. The baby routinely measured small according to their due date, so much so that I was sent for an extra u-sound to verify everything was ok at one point. But no one would consider my due estimate was correct. After my "check" she told me what she had done and told me to go directly to the hospital. My deliveries were quick and I delivered under a hour later. Dh said Dd was covered with far more/heavier vernix covering her than our other two. Her coloring seemed off- grayish. A week later she was back in the hospital with breathing issues, and continued to be hospitalized for the same until well after her third bday. She was dx'd with RSV at that first hospital stay and bronchitis and/or pneumonia several times in her first three years, along with bronchial asthma and underdeveloped lungs. You can not convince me the DR (not an OB but rather our ex family dr) did not send me into labor to avoid birthing during a possible nursing shortage due to the possible impending strike (which never happened). When I asked her later if that is indeed what she did, she looked totally like a deer caught in the headlights and stammered, "no, I stripped your membranes because the baby was ready to come". Nor can you convince me that DD or her LUNGS were ready "to come". So, I agree with you. I think this happens a lot, for reasons beyond the family's control. Not always for a wrong reason, but still not for a right one either.
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