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Post by Merge on Mar 18, 2017 20:01:48 GMT
When people in Texas raise opposition to the idea of Trump's wall, we often cite the potential for habitat destruction and aesthetic damage in the Big Bend region. This area contains a beautiful and mostly untouched desert and mountain landscape, and already presents formidable natural barriers to illegal travel. And much of it is federally owned as a national park. This article talks about how now, Big Bend may be under immediate threat. It seems most of the rest of the Texas border country is privately owned, and if landowners, many of whom have owned and lived on their land for several generations, are unwilling to sell a portion of their private property to the government, the property must be condemned - a process which can take years. So Trump's insistence on starting the wall building now means they'll be looking for the easiest place to start, and that may mean looking at the national park land. www.mystatesman.com/news/with-land-already-hand-trump-eyes-big-bend-for-border-wall/wsOshEEM13x1NzXUPnu24M/This is a truly beautiful and remote area, and building a 30-ft wall or fence along the river would be truly damaging to the ecosystem there, in addition to spoiling the view. Is this what conservatives voted for? Is it a trade off worth whatever advantages you think the Trump presidency may bring? |
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Post by missfrenchjessica on Mar 18, 2017 20:27:34 GMT
Doomed.
That is all.
Doomed.
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Post by anonrefugee on Mar 18, 2017 20:28:13 GMT
I don't think this group has shown much care for the environment. It's another domain for man to conquer and master for his own benefit.
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Mar 18, 2017 20:33:19 GMT
I don't think this group has shown much care for the environment. It's another domain for man to conquer and master for his own benefit. This. And it absolutely breaks my heart. |
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Post by anonrefugee on Mar 18, 2017 20:36:13 GMT
I don't think this group has shown much care for the environment. It's another domain for man to conquer and master for his own benefit. This. And it absolutely breaks my heart. Funny aside - I was quoting you on another thread at same time. Have a great day! |
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Deleted
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Jun 26, 2024 7:34:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 20:56:12 GMT
I wish these idiots would look at placing more motion sensors and cameras.
Cameras could be used for research.....oh wait that's science, therefore useless.
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Post by salem on Mar 18, 2017 20:57:56 GMT
What a beautiful area.
Is condemnation the same as eminent domain?
Trump sucks.
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zookeeper
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by zookeeper on Mar 18, 2017 21:01:23 GMT
I love the Big Bend area and no way in hell do I want a wall built there. It is such a gorgeous area with a delicate ecosystem and the wall will destroy all of this.
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casii
Drama Llama
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Post by casii on Mar 18, 2017 21:04:18 GMT
They care little for the environment and we've already seen many of them are ready to sell our parks downriver.
I remember visiting this area when I was a little kid with my aunt and uncle. My uncle used to wax eloquent about it. Now he's all for the wall. What happened to him?
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zookeeper
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by zookeeper on Mar 18, 2017 21:25:28 GMT
I just now realized that my profile pic was taken near Big Bend! DH and I were in Terlingua for the annual chili cook off. I have seen the most breathtaking sunrises and sunsets there!
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Mar 18, 2017 21:38:40 GMT
I would say that someone who has spent their entire life in NYC probably does not understand "unspoiled natural landscape". We know that ecosystems are not high on the priority list.
We only have to look at Scotland to see what our leader thinks of nature.
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Post by micheley on Mar 18, 2017 21:51:56 GMT
Wow. I just googled images of Big Bend. What a gorgeous area.
Great place to put an eyesore of a wall and ruin with construction equipment/people trampling about. Truly making America great again.
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uksue
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,507
Location: London
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Post by uksue on Mar 18, 2017 22:00:09 GMT
I would say that someone who has spent their entire life in NYC probably does not understand "unspoiled natural landscape". We know that ecosystems are not high on the priority list. We only have to look at Scotland to see what our leader thinks of nature. Took the words right of my mouth! |
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Post by birdgate on Mar 19, 2017 0:07:28 GMT
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Post by peasapie on Mar 19, 2017 1:25:25 GMT
I think those of us who didn't vote for Tump keep looking towards his supporters to ask if this is what they expected. So far I haven't heard one person I know of who voted for him raise a voice of dismay. As I keep saying, I'm pretty sure anything goes. I don't expect wisdom or common sense to prevail.
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Post by salem on Mar 19, 2017 1:38:37 GMT
I see after reading this, it is the same as eminent domain. I was under the impression that yes, the government can take property, but a landowner must be paid at least fair market value. $2900.00 for 1.2 acres, is crap. I'd love to see what some of theses other owners are being offered, or threatened with. I think that there are many Texans that just aren't going to put up with this shit. I think Mr. Trump might just have a battle on his hands. A physical, standoff kind of battle. A lot of people don't seem too concerned about the crap he's pulling right now with wanting to cut funding to important social programs, playing friendly with Russia, having placed some of the biggest assholes around him at the White House and letting his family spend freely of the taxpayer money, but this is getting personal to people that as the article above states, are very sensitive about property rights. I can't imagine they are going to put up with it, or hand it over with a smile of their faces. |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,666
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Mar 19, 2017 1:50:05 GMT
I would say that someone who has spent their entire life in NYC probably does not understand "unspoiled natural landscape". We know that ecosystems are not high on the priority list. We only have to look at Scotland to see what our leader thinks of nature. Yes! I would have liked you post 100 times if I could. Just ask the Scottish people. |
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zookeeper
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by zookeeper on Mar 19, 2017 1:52:12 GMT
I think that there are many Texans that just aren't going to put up with this shit. I think Mr. Trump might just have a battle on his hands. The people of the Big Bend area are tough. They will not go down without a fight. It takes a lot of perseverance and grit to live out there. It is not a cushy life. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Mar 19, 2017 1:59:07 GMT
^^^ wow, this makes it real... for some reason, I keep expecting the madness to not actually happen. This makes me so sad and despondent for our culture and society, if this is really what we believe is necessary and WANT to have happen to our country- both the people that make it up and the land that makes it up. (and by 'we' I mean the people who truly support the idea of a 30-foot wall and all the stupid, small-minded, xenophobic reasons they think it's necessary.) |
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Post by librarylady on Mar 19, 2017 2:01:47 GMT
One part of the trouble: few people live there. "Who cares if 500 ranchers are angry?"
THOUSANDS voted for ME!
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Post by birdgate on Mar 19, 2017 4:03:14 GMT
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Mar 19, 2017 4:22:28 GMT
I can't remember which country this happened in, but does anyone recall when ISIS (I think?) took over someplace and immediately destroyed the giant statues of Buddha along with other cultural treasures?
The United States does not have much of that kind of ancient cultural history to destroy. We do, however, have some spectacular natural treasures. Big Bend is one, and Trump et al cares about as much for these natural treasures as ISIS cared about ancient statues of Buddha.
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Post by elaine on Mar 19, 2017 4:28:18 GMT
I can't remember which country this happened in, but does anyone recall when ISIS (I think?) took over someplace and immediately destroyed the giant statues of Buddha along with other cultural treasures? The United States does not have much of that kind of ancient cultural history to destroy. We do, however, have some spectacular natural treasures. Big Bend is one, and Trump et al cares about as much for these natural treasures as ISIS cared about ancient statues of Buddha. It was the Taliban in Afghanistan. |
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Post by elaine on Mar 19, 2017 4:30:01 GMT
I don't think this group has shown much care for the environment. It's another domain for man to conquer and master for his own benefit. Yes, sadly. Ayn Rand is a hero to many of them. |
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Mar 19, 2017 4:31:39 GMT
I can't remember which country this happened in, but does anyone recall when ISIS (I think?) took over someplace and immediately destroyed the giant statues of Buddha along with other cultural treasures? The United States does not have much of that kind of ancient cultural history to destroy. We do, however, have some spectacular natural treasures. Big Bend is one, and Trump et al cares about as much for these natural treasures as ISIS cared about ancient statues of Buddha. It was the Taliban in Afghanistan. Also the UNESCO World Hertiage Site at Hatra, near Mosul, perhaps? You make a good point twinsmomfla99 |
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Post by Merge on Mar 19, 2017 12:34:05 GMT
I think what irks me most is that people have essentially voted to take away others' private property. Some of those families have been on that land since before Texas was part of the US.
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Post by anxiousmom on Mar 19, 2017 12:52:37 GMT
I don't think this group has shown much care for the environment. It's another domain for man to conquer and master for his own benefit. Yes, sadly. Ayn Rand is a hero to many of them. You know, I was reading the other thread about Christians and some of the budget cuts and was thinking that there must have been a huge run on Ayn Rand's books in DC lately... |
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desertgirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by desertgirl on Mar 19, 2017 13:14:10 GMT
We backpacked for several days in Big Bend back in the 80's. It was unspoiled and clean. So many vistas. We took a boat ride on the Rio Grande to Boquillas across the border in Mexico and ate tacos in a little outdoor area. My brother went with us and he took great photos of the town - we have an album of them. I have so many good memories of that trip - I was pregnant and the Mexican women in the town just chatted up a storm with me, gave me advice. We slept out under the stars in perfect weather and never tired of the beauty of the park.
I think my heart is in an area like Big Bend. Those of us who love the land, use it wisely and respectfully, and want to conserve it, are deeply affected by just how far this administration is willing to go to ruin our country/land/terrain, literally, in Big Bend and other critical natural areas along the border, not to mention the disaster in relations with our neighbor, Mexico. DT's heart is in his pocketbook and his unfailing, persistent need to self-promote and receive adulation from cronies like him and dangerous despots like Putin.
I hope every decent Texan will discover a way to stand up to this plunder of natural lands along their border and in their very OWN backyards.
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Post by lovetodigi on Mar 19, 2017 13:50:11 GMT
And some Texans were all up in arms, literally, because they thought that President Obama was going to take over Texas. Will they arm and go protect Texas from trump? Even the border guards don't want that huge ugly wall. They have ideas that will work without a wall but trump knows more than the very people who spend their days guarding that border. Heartbreaking and sickening. So much damage is being done to our country, our way of life, that it will take many, many years to try to fix, if it will even be fixable. Our national parks will never be the same after he is through with them. However, a lot of the blame should go totally to the Republican Party on Capital Hill because they have the power to stop him and are just sitting on their hands, giggling in glee at being the majority. They no longer care about America, just the power of control and the money lining their pockets.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 26, 2024 7:34:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 14:04:38 GMT
Did everyone read the link from the resistance report? Especially this part?
Roughly ten years ago, former President George W. Bush signed off on the construction of over 100 miles of border fencing on private land, which would have meant included the 1.2 acres of property in Los Ebanos . However, because the wall was on the floodplain of the Rio Grande, an existing treaty between the U.S. and Mexican governments prevented the wall from being built, as the treaty doesn’t allow for any new construction that pushes floodwaters into neighboring communities.
But in 2012, that treaty was effectively overridden by lobbying from President Obama’s Department of Homeland Security, which convinced the United States half of the International Boundary and Water Commission that construction could go forward on the floodplain. While Obama emphasized surveillance over a wall, the Trump administration is more inclined toward construction of a new wall, meaning that Los Ebanos is likely going to have to accede to the federal governments’ declarations of taking.
We are all, collectively, responsible. Not just the Trump voters (of which I am not one). Trump may be advocating a physical wall, but the stage for it was set by previous administrations and the Constitution itself (5th amendment.) None of us holds the moral high ground here.
I don't support a physical wall in Big Bend. That just seems patently silly and unnecessary. I'd more likely support high-tech measures over physical, land-destroying options.
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