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Post by missbennet on Jun 9, 2017 12:45:03 GMT
It's interesting to me all the focus on whether or Trump was under investigation on January 2, and at the various times he asked after that. I took yesterday's testimony to mean he wasn't under investigation then because the probe was new, but he is now. And it sounded like it's criminal now.
Is this wishful thinking on my part, or did anyone else catch that? The testimony was long and I listened to everything, but I can't remember what Comey said that made me think most commentators were missing what is happening NOW. Even Trump is very focused on whether he was under investigation then, seeming to miss that he is now.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 9, 2017 12:47:04 GMT
It's interesting to me all the focus on whether or Trump was under investigation on January 2, and at the various times he asked after that. I took yesterday's testimony to mean he wasn't under investigation then because the probe was new, but he is now. And it sounded like it's criminal now. Is this wishful thinking on my part, or did anyone else catch that? The testimony was long and I listened to everything, but I can't remember what Comey said that made me think most commentators were missing what is happening NOW. Even Trump is very focused on whether he was under investigation then, seeming to miss that he is now. It sure was implied. And why else would Comey give Mueller his notes? Mueller seems to be moving fast.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 9, 2017 12:52:37 GMT
He admitted it. That, IMO, is the major weapon for the Trump side. Although I don't think that it is much of a weapon, since he admitted it after Trump's tweet about tapes, implying (to me) that he (Comey) suspected obstruction of justice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 12:58:41 GMT
He admitted it. That, IMO, is the major weapon for the Trump side. Although I don't think that it is much of a weapon, since he admitted it after Trump's tweet about tapes, implying (to me) that he (Comey) suspected obstruction of justice. Per Trump's attorney (if true, which I'm sure has been checked already)...Comey said he leaked his memo AFTER Trump's tweet about tapes. However, the NYT had already been reporting the contents of the memo BEFORE Trump tweeted about tapes. So again, if true, Comey's not being completely honest about his explanation of his reasoning and timing. ***ETA*** Nix my above response. I didn't read all the way thru the article to see Trump's attorney was wrong with the timing of Comey's memo and Trump's tweet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 13:24:10 GMT
The person who created that must have been watching different testimony than I was. It is interesting how both sides see a win in yesterday's testimony. It certainly wasn't as damning as it had been billed; on the other hand, I think it strategically opened doors for further steps. Time will tell. And those opening doors don't stop at President Trump either. (but didn't really read much of that here yesterday...there's some pretty shady shit happening in DC and it's not all Trump either)
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Post by peatlejuice on Jun 9, 2017 14:03:36 GMT
I still haven't watched the entire hearing (honestly, haven't even searched for it...busy this morning) but in reading what I see here, reading what I see elsewhere, and watching a few clips, I'm not really surprised that it seems I saw a different hearing. It just goes to show how partisan not only Washington is, but the rest of America as well. We see and hear what we want to see and hear. Focusing on any smidgen of text that backs our opinion while ignoring the rest that doesn't fit our narrative. And the praise for Comey now. As I read all of the praise for him I thought to myself "yes, these are the same people that demanded he be fired and were ready to string him up 7 months ago" SMH. I still think Comey made terrible decisions regarding the email server investigation (specifically, the timing). At the time, yes, I thought he should be fired for (unwittingly) influencing the election. I still think an argument could be made for that, and considering that was the initial reason given for his firing (per Rosenstein's letter), I'm not the only one. However, after observing his actions since, and especially after watching his testimony yesterday (which you really should do), my opinion now is that he is a flawed but extremely honest man who genuinely has tried to put country before party. If that makes me dumb or hypocritical in your eyes (which is how I read the tone of your post), then so be it. I'd rather be dumb or hypocritical than have my head so far up one party's ass that I'm incapable of changing my opinion or admitting I was wrong.
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pudgygroundhog
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Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jun 9, 2017 14:12:13 GMT
And the praise for Comey now. As I read all of the praise for him I thought to myself "yes, these are the same people that demanded he be fired and were ready to string him up 7 months ago" SMH. I still think Comey made terrible decisions regarding the email server investigation (specifically, the timing). At the time, yes, I thought he should be fired for (unwittingly) influencing the election. I still think an argument could be made for that, and considering that was the initial reason given for his firing (per Rosenstein's letter), I'm not the only one. However, after observing his actions since, and especially after watching his testimony yesterday (which you really should do), my opinion now is that he is a flawed but extremely honest man who genuinely has tried to put country before party. If that makes me dumb or hypocritical in your eyes (which is how I read the tone of your post), then so be it. I'd rather be dumb or hypocritical than have my head so far up one party's ass that I'm incapable of changing my opinion or admitting I was wrong. These are my thoughts as well. I've also heard some discussion that Comey was trying to be transparent - he thought Clinton was going to win and he didn't want to be accused of withholding information about the investigation and unduly influencing the election. So I think he was trying to get ahead of the backlash. I'm still unhappy with his actions and think he was wrong, but I think his behavior since then has shown he is not partisan and he was trying to do what he thought was right. Trump more or less said he fired Comey because of the Russian investigation, which tells me Comey was doing his job.
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trollie
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Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 9, 2017 14:17:08 GMT
Top 10 things we learned today: 1. Trump was never under investigation. Trump is not under investigation YET, or at least was not when Comey had spoken with Trump about the investigation.2. Trump did not obstruct justice. The investigation is not over and that has not YET been determined.3. Trump did not collude with Russia. There is no evidence of that YET. Cue Mike Flynn.4. Russia did not alter the election outcome. OMG. They most certainly did with the wikileaks and Facebook false news stories.5. Comey leaked his own memo. - YEP6. Loretta Lynch pressured Comey to cover for Hillary Clinton. - jury is out for me on this one. Clearly, as Comey testified, he was uncomfortable with how he was directed to frame to the media what was going on here.7. There was ample evidence to put Hillary in jail but Comey chose not to pursue it. Comey clearly stated there has not enough evidence.8. CNN and other fake news outlets have been lying / making things up this entire time. Crazy!??!9. The Democratic Party no longer has the ability to scream "RUSSIA" every time Trump tries to do something. Ah, YES they do. What some people don't understand is that Putin is not a Republican or Democrat, but an opportunist as stated by one of the senators at the hearing yesterday. Everyone in America should be concerned about the Russian interference in our election.10. The Russia story is dead - any democrat who continue to push it will look foolish and insane to the American people. No it is not. We need to get to work to make sure that Russia or anyone else cannot interfere with our elections in the future.
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imsirius
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Call it as I see it.
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Post by imsirius on Jun 9, 2017 14:18:51 GMT
How does one believe Comey that Lynch pressured him over Clinton, but dismiss Comey that Trump pressured him over Flynn? It's like the blue dress/white dress, people saw/heard two totally different hearings. Because...emails, Dems, HRC is evil. She isn't Republican, it doesn't help the agenda..etc... take your pick.
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Post by dulcemama on Jun 9, 2017 14:22:04 GMT
I still haven't watched the entire hearing (honestly, haven't even searched for it...busy this morning) but in reading what I see here, reading what I see elsewhere, and watching a few clips, I'm not really surprised that it seems I saw a different hearing. It just goes to show how partisan not only Washington is, but the rest of America as well. We see and hear what we want to see and hear. Focusing on any smidgen of text that backs our opinion while ignoring the rest that doesn't fit our narrative. And the praise for Comey now. As I read all of the praise for him I thought to myself "yes, these are the same people that demanded he be fired and were ready to string him up 7 months ago" SMH. You know, I was mad as hell about what he did regarding Hillary's e-mails but listening to what he had to say, I think I understand better why he did what he did with that. Still not happy about it but not mad anymore. It is possible to change your opinion when you have added information.
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imsirius
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Call it as I see it.
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Post by imsirius on Jun 9, 2017 14:22:12 GMT
The person who created that must have been watching different testimony than I was. It is interesting how both sides see a win in yesterday's testimony. It certainly wasn't as damning as it had been billed; on the other hand, I think it strategically opened doors for further steps. Time will tell. Except nobody knows what will be said in closed session/classified meeting. Comey clearly had more to say but could not make it public.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Jun 9, 2017 14:24:36 GMT
It is interesting how both sides see a win in yesterday's testimony. It certainly wasn't as damning as it had been billed; on the other hand, I think it strategically opened doors for further steps. Time will tell. And those opening doors don't stop at President Trump either. (but didn't really read much of that here yesterday...there's some pretty shady shit happening in DC and it's not all Trump either) No, it's not all Trump, but maybe about half of his administration.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 9, 2017 14:45:25 GMT
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 9, 2017 14:52:13 GMT
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 9, 2017 14:54:48 GMT
^^^ fyi, it's asking me for a sign in...
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 9, 2017 15:00:19 GMT
^^^ fyi, it's asking me for a sign in... Sorry about that: Special counselRobert Mueller has recruited the Justice Department’s top criminal law expert to help with his investigation of ties between the Trump presidential campaign and Russian officials. Deputy solicitor general Michael Dreeben, who has arguedmore than 100 cases before the U.S. Supreme Court and oversees the Justice Department’s criminal appellate docket, will be assisting Mueller on a part-time basis, according to sources familiar with the arrangement. While helping Mueller, Dreeben will continue in his role in the solicitor general’s office, with other lawyers in the office pitching in to help him with upcoming criminal cases. Related Articles: Comey Watchers Ask: Where Are the Lawyers? 3 Big Moments for Attorneys in Comey Hearing The move signals that Mueller is seeking advice on the complexities that have arisen already in the investigations, including what constitutes obstruction of justice. "Michael Dreeben is to criminal law what Robert Mueller is to investigations,” former acting Solicitor General Neal Katyal said Thursday night. “Literally the very best. Yet another sign of how serious Mueller is about this matter." Now a partner at Hogan Lovells, Katyal has been a key figure in challenging President Donald Trump’s travel ban. In 2005, Dreeben argued and lost a case for the government involving obstruction-of-justice charges against the Arthur Andersen accounting firm in the wake of the Enron scandal. At anevent marking Dreeben’s 100th Supreme Court argument in 2016, justices praised his expertise in the area of criminal law. He argued his first case at the court in 1989 against John Roberts Jr., then in private practice, and has worked in the solicitor general’s office under Republicans and Democrats ever since. Justice Elena Kagan, who worked with Dreeben as solicitor general before joining the high court, said she felt honored "in the company of a magnificent attorney doing a magnificent job." Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that when Dreeben approaches the lectern at the Supreme Court, "I know he will tell it straight."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 15:39:41 GMT
I still haven't watched the entire hearing (honestly, haven't even searched for it...busy this morning) but in reading what I see here, reading what I see elsewhere, and watching a few clips, I'm not really surprised that it seems I saw a different hearing. It just goes to show how partisan not only Washington is, but the rest of America as well. We see and hear what we want to see and hear. Focusing on any smidgen of text that backs our opinion while ignoring the rest that doesn't fit our narrative. And the praise for Comey now. As I read all of the praise for him I thought to myself "yes, these are the same people that demanded he be fired and were ready to string him up 7 months ago" SMH. 1. You are just now coming to that conclusion how partisan this entire country has become? It's clear you haven't been paying attention to what has been said on this board for the last couple of years. Note what's below in my signature. That has been there for a couple of months now. 2. We live in a complex world. It is possible to condemn Comey for the email letter about nothing as well to approve of his testimony from yesterday.
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Deleted
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May 2, 2024 8:30:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 16:00:36 GMT
And the praise for Comey now. As I read all of the praise for him I thought to myself "yes, these are the same people that demanded he be fired and were ready to string him up 7 months ago" SMH. 1. You are just now coming to that conclusion how partisan this entire country has become? It's clear you haven't been paying attention to what has been said on this board for the last couple of years. Note what's below in my signature. That has been there for a couple of months now. 2. We live in a complex world. It is possible to condemn Comey for the email letter about nothing as well to approve of his testimony from yesterday. I don't really understand your cryptic message. Who said that I was just now coming to the conclusion that this nation is partisan? You don't think I've been paying attention to what's been said on this board for the last few years? And your signature that's been there a few months...sometimes I see them, sometimes I don't. I know it's supposed to be clever but I just don't want to try to figure out where you're going with it. You're entitled to put whatever you want in your signature, but it doesn't mean that anyone is required to figure out (or gasp, agree with) what it means or why you put it there.
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Deleted
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May 2, 2024 8:30:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 16:02:39 GMT
Good. I want a full and complete investigation. I want everyone that needs to be interviewed interviewed. I don't want key players left out of the process.
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pyccku
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Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jun 9, 2017 16:09:37 GMT
I am not a Democrat. I have been an Independent for 20+ years now. I don't care which side Russia helped, we need to get to the bottom of it. Anyone who truly thinks that Russia has given up and is no longer our adversary has no idea what Russia is all about.
Russians have a very long memory. The Slavic people in general do, since there's been so much crap that happened in that area over such a long period of time. 20 years is nothing to a Russian. We thought the cold war was over when the Berlin wall came down. It wasn't. We moved on to other enemies. They didn't. Putin is still angry about the collapse of the USSR, and he's not going to 'get over it.' That's such an American way of doing things - forgive and forget, move on. I could see people maybe getting over someone stealing their girlfriend back in 6th grade, or whatever. But dismantling a country? No, Putin isn't over that and he's not going to get over it. He's going to keep coming after the US for several reasons: a) it's fun for him to get revenge b) it is profitable and c) if the opportunity is there, why not take it?
They've been fighting a war that we didn't know we were in. From the sounds of the testimony from various figures, our intelligence community does know that we're fighting this war. But thanks to the propaganda machine of the GOP and FOX, we have a large chunk of the population that is dismissing the possibility that there is even a war going on. It's kind of like when your neighbor tells you to run because his house has just been set fire by bad guys but you just ignore him and laugh because he pissed you off a few years ago when he borrowed your lawn mower and didn't return it. A smart person would say "Wait, isn't my lawn mower in that house that is now on fire? and then "well, first they set fire to HIS house and I live right next door, this isn't good for me at all!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 16:17:39 GMT
I am not a Democrat. I have been an Independent for 20+ years now. I don't care which side Russia helped, we need to get to the bottom of it. Anyone who truly thinks that Russia has given up and is no longer our adversary has no idea what Russia is all about. Russians have a very long memory. The Slavic people in general do, since there's been so much crap that happened in that area over such a long period of time. 20 years is nothing to a Russian. We thought the cold war was over when the Berlin wall came down. It wasn't. We moved on to other enemies. They didn't. Putin is still angry about the collapse of the USSR, and he's not going to 'get over it.' That's such an American way of doing things - forgive and forget, move on. I could see people maybe getting over someone stealing their girlfriend back in 6th grade, or whatever. But dismantling a country? No, Putin isn't over that and he's not going to get over it. He's going to keep coming after the US for several reasons: a) it's fun for him to get revenge b) it is profitable and c) if the opportunity is there, why not take it? They've been fighting a war that we didn't know we were in. From the sounds of the testimony from various figures, our intelligence community does know that we're fighting this war. But thanks to the propaganda machine of the GOP and FOX, we have a large chunk of the population that is dismissing the possibility that there is even a war going on. It's kind of like when your neighbor tells you to run because his house has just been set fire by bad guys but you just ignore him and laugh because he pissed you off a few years ago when he borrowed your lawn mower and didn't return it. A smart person would say "Wait, isn't my lawn mower in that house that is now on fire? and then "well, first they set fire to HIS house and I live right next door, this isn't good for me at all!" We should worry about Russia. But when you have the acting (now former) Attorney General having private meetings with the husband of a candidate and then laying heat on the head of the FBI to use the same narrative as one of the campaigns is pretty troublesome as well. We don't need the Russians hacking and influencing our elections when we've got our own shady politicians and administrations to interfere in our elections. Did anyone mention that on this thread while watching and "pea'ing" live?
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 9, 2017 16:54:51 GMT
Good. I want a full and complete investigation. I want everyone that needs to be interviewed interviewed. I don't want key players left out of the process. I couldn't agree more, whatever the outcome. The more information that is uncovered, the better to help to prevent Russian intrusions in future elections. That is what I hope is the outcome when all is said or done. ETA: Not to confuse anyone, I am talking about the simultaneous investigations that are happening, not just Mueller and his team.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jun 9, 2017 17:17:59 GMT
You know what matters right now? Russian active measures are still ongoing. They are still trying to influence people and they still have some sort of hold on high-ranking members of our federal government.
You know what matters a whole lot less right now? The actions of a former acting AG and the actions of a former US president who can never serve in that position other again. Why does it not matter as much? Because they are out of power. They no longer have the keys to the nuclear launch codes, they no longer have a position of power in which they can influence anyone. Maybe they should hang out with Comey and start a "people who used to be important in the US government but are now private citizens" club. Hillary could even join them!
But please...tell us how HRC would have been worse or wouldn't have been investigated or would have put peas in the guacamole?
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Post by peasapie on Jun 9, 2017 20:48:42 GMT
It is interesting how both sides see a win in yesterday's testimony. It certainly wasn't as damning as it had been billed; on the other hand, I think it strategically opened doors for further steps. Time will tell. And those opening doors don't stop at President Trump either. (but didn't really read much of that here yesterday...there's some pretty shady shit happening in DC and it's not all Trump either) I agree with you, starting with Bill Clinton's meeting on the tarmac. Course, I've always thought everyone who runs for politics is a crook...
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 9, 2017 22:59:53 GMT
Like me some Dan Rathers...this is excellent-
"As with many of my fellow Americans, I don't consider myself partisan politically - never have. I am a registered independent voter and have been for most of my life. With that in mind, I submit the following:
Can we please get this out of the way? None of what is happening at the top of government now is normal. None of it. And no one should normalize it. No one.
We have a President who lies without a second thought. Big bold lies that are easily disproven. That is not normal.
We have serious allegations around obstruction of justice by that President. That is not normal.
We have an FBI director fired for insisting to continue pursuing a serious investigation into the sanctify of our republic. It has never happened before in our history. That is not normal.
We have a hostile foreign power attacking and undermining our electoral process. That is not normal.
We have an Attorney General under a serious shadow of association with said foreign power, with indications that there is much more to this story than we yet know. That is not normal.
We have Federal judges, our closest foreign allies, and the free press under scurrilous attack from the President and his enablers. At the same time we have despots praised. That is not normal.
We have an Administration fanning the flames of division over race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, and gender. That is not normal.
We have an overhaul of our entire health care system being written in secret on a rapid time frame. That is not normal.
We have a sordid confluence of the President's business interests and his political power. That is not normal.
The list could go on and on. And feel free to add your own to the comments section.
What concerns me even more than any of these items is the fact that they are largely being met by a shrug or excuses from most Republican elected officials. Even many Democrats seem overwhelmed and are inclined to let some of this just ride. That may be how politics works. But this is bigger. It's about our nation.
We are shifting the goalposts for our democracy. We are failing to be outraged by the outrageous because there is something even more outrageous that always seems to hit the news cycle. And that is dangerous.
What gives me hope is we have had waves of abnormality in our country's history. And we've had times when what we would consider now to be not normal, like segregation, was considered normal. What has centered and saved our country time and again is civic engagement. I believe that most people in this nation don't think any of this is normal. And they could very well vote out those elected officials in both parties who are normalizing these outrages."
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 9, 2017 23:27:29 GMT
Well said Dan!
Today DT stated that he is more than willing to testify under oath, because he did not say 'that'. The problem with that is that he has been known to lie about things and believes he is perfect/knows all and is able to lie with an absolutely straight face. He believes he is not lying. Unless there are tapes, it may well be he said, he said.
He believes that he is no longer going to be investigated, because Comey said he was not before, he has been vindicated.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jun 9, 2017 23:33:33 GMT
You know what matters right now? Russian active measures are still ongoing. They are still trying to influence people and they still have some sort of hold on high-ranking members of our federal government.You know what matters a whole lot less right now? The actions of a former acting AG and the actions of a former US president who can never serve in that position other again. Why does it not matter as much? Because they are out of power. They no longer have the keys to the nuclear launch codes, they no longer have a position of power in which they can influence anyone. Maybe they should hang out with Comey and start a "people who used to be important in the US government but are now private citizens" club. Hillary could even join them! But please...tell us how HRC would have been worse or wouldn't have been investigated or would have put peas in the guacamole? 100% SaveSave
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PLurker
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Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Jun 9, 2017 23:48:07 GMT
I believe the memo Comey leaked was his own personal notes (memo) regarding the exchange, not any official FBI documents. He was a no longer employed by FBI. Why is that different than any ex-agent writing a memoir, or ex president? Under the circumstances, with tRumps continual efforts to malign Comey after he was fired, why should Comey be expected to keep his views, and perceptions quiet? I feel that Comey actually showed more dignity since the firing than most would in his situation. I don't think his actions were impulsive, but were clearly thought out, with the view what is best for the nation. Now I wonder who is paying for tRumps expensive gaggle of private lawyers? The taxpayers or himself? If tRump is paying, that I don't expect he will donate his salary this quarter. I love that it is being called a "leak," as if one cannot publish their own notes. Anyway, didn't 45 say he likes leaks, when it concerned HRC? Why is he crying now? Rules do not apply to him, only exceptions.
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Post by artgirl1 on Jun 10, 2017 0:50:44 GMT
via Twitter leaked by tRump
His tax returns (twice) Preemptive NK attack bluff Location of US submarines Israeli intel on ISIS Privileged comms w/ Comey
#LeakedByTrump
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 10, 2017 1:32:16 GMT
Mueller and the committees will have access to DT's Tax returns..... YES!! We may not see them but..............
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