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Post by brina on Jul 8, 2017 11:39:57 GMT
when a man can be in a pair of shorts yet insist that a woman be in a burka that is sexism. when thee are rules for each that are essentially the same (jacket and tie for men, long sleeves for women) I do not have a problem with it and do not consider it sexist.
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kelly8875
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,391
Location: Lost in my supplies...
Oct 26, 2014 17:02:56 GMT
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Post by kelly8875 on Jul 8, 2017 12:53:15 GMT
I'm not a man, and I set a dress code in my office. Women have to wear sleeves, and no open toed shoes. Now, the shoes is because most everyone else wears steel toed boots, so asking the girls to wear full covering isn't a big deal. I don't like the look of sleeveless in a professional setting, the men can't do it either so what's the big deal?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 7:33:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 14:30:47 GMT
Women can and do look just as professional as men do in their suits wearing sleeveless dresses and tops.
Is there a real reason for no sleeveless dresses or tops or just left over old fashion thinking?
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 8, 2017 15:52:48 GMT
Women can and do look just as professional as men do in their suits wearing sleeveless dresses and tops. Is there a real reason for no sleeveless dresses or tops or just left over old fashion thinking? I agree. If we can put a man in office who thinks it's okay to grab a woman without her permission, perhaps we are past the point of requiring suit jackets for women and can allow a woman to wear a sleeveless sheath in the heat of DC, which is a freaking swamp. I hate dress code conversations. They're almost NEVER about policing men and almost always about policing women.
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Post by pondrunner on Jul 8, 2017 15:59:57 GMT
Who cares if a woman wears sleeves? Showing maybe 2 more inches of each arm than with a capped sleeve So what if men have to wear a suit jacket? Women are expected to have their hair and makeup perfectly done, wear a bra, pantyhose and heels. And are taken less seriously than men by 37% in wages. It makes me sick to think of how women are expected to spend all this money on different dresses ( because someone will surely notice if they wear the same one frequently) when men can get away will wearing the same couple of suits with a few different dress shirts over and over. They are also expected to, and spend a lot of money, to maintain a certain level of beauty to impress men, when men can get away with combing their hair and brushing their teeth in the morning. Which puts the wage in-equality even deeper for women. I was discussing this with a male coworker the other day. He asked how much I spend on beauty a month: ~$100/month manicures/pedicures ~ $100/ month hair ( usually spend ~300 every three months between one cut/highlight and a few blowdrys) ~$200/ month waxing and eyelashes $400/month...$4,800 a year spend on "women only" maintenance activities. Thats not even counting the money I spend on makeup or hair product, the botox I'll need soon, or my occasional spray tan. Or the frequent upgrade of wardrobe. But it is expected of women in my industry. 200/mo for waxing and eyelashes? I call bullshit. I don't know what your industry is but none of this is expected of women in mine. I am senior administration in a large school system and of the thousands of women working in my organization I don't know any that are expected to Botox for their jobs. These are vanity choices. That's fine if that's what you do, but the expectation is artificial.
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Post by gorgeouskid on Jul 8, 2017 16:03:32 GMT
Men fucking policing women once again. IT DOES NOT MATTER. Sleeves, no sleeves. Does not matter. Another attempt to police women's bodies, though. Good job, guys. This. Sleeveless does not equal inappropriate clothing anymore. Take a look at pretty much ALL women's business wear clothing lines.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 8, 2017 16:07:10 GMT
Who cares if a woman wears sleeves? Showing maybe 2 more inches of each arm than with a capped sleeve So what if men have to wear a suit jacket? Women are expected to have their hair and makeup perfectly done, wear a bra, pantyhose and heels. And are taken less seriously than men by 37% in wages. It makes me sick to think of how women are expected to spend all this money on different dresses ( because someone will surely notice if they wear the same one frequently) when men can get away will wearing the same couple of suits with a few different dress shirts over and over. They are also expected to, and spend a lot of money, to maintain a certain level of beauty to impress men, when men can get away with combing their hair and brushing their teeth in the morning. Which puts the wage in-equality even deeper for women. I was discussing this with a male coworker the other day. He asked how much I spend on beauty a month: ~$100/month manicures/pedicures ~ $100/ month hair ( usually spend ~300 every three months between one cut/highlight and a few blowdrys) ~$200/ month waxing and eyelashes $400/month...$4,800 a year spend on "women only" maintenance activities. Thats not even counting the money I spend on makeup or hair product, the botox I'll need soon, or my occasional spray tan. Or the frequent upgrade of wardrobe. But it is expected of women in my industry. 200/mo for waxing and eyelashes? I call bullshit. I don't know what your industry is but none of this is expected of women in mine. I am senior administration in a large school system and of the thousands of women working in my organization I don't know any that are expected to Botox for their jobs. These are vanity choices. That's fine if that's what you do, but the expectation is artificial. I agree with some of this (Botox, waxing, tanning are unnecessary for MOST professions), but there IS a difference in grooming and personal care costs between women and men. Shampoo, razors, haircare products, etc. that are marketed toward women are all more expensive. Tampons and pads cost money. The "pink tax" is real.
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courtney
Shy Member
Posts: 36
Jul 7, 2017 8:08:48 GMT
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Post by courtney on Jul 8, 2017 16:09:05 GMT
Who cares if a woman wears sleeves? Showing maybe 2 more inches of each arm than with a capped sleeve So what if men have to wear a suit jacket? Women are expected to have their hair and makeup perfectly done, wear a bra, pantyhose and heels. And are taken less seriously than men by 37% in wages. It makes me sick to think of how women are expected to spend all this money on different dresses ( because someone will surely notice if they wear the same one frequently) when men can get away will wearing the same couple of suits with a few different dress shirts over and over. They are also expected to, and spend a lot of money, to maintain a certain level of beauty to impress men, when men can get away with combing their hair and brushing their teeth in the morning. Which puts the wage in-equality even deeper for women. I was discussing this with a male coworker the other day. He asked how much I spend on beauty a month: ~$100/month manicures/pedicures ~ $100/ month hair ( usually spend ~300 every three months between one cut/highlight and a few blowdrys) ~$200/ month waxing and eyelashes $400/month...$4,800 a year spend on "women only" maintenance activities. Thats not even counting the money I spend on makeup or hair product, the botox I'll need soon, or my occasional spray tan. Or the frequent upgrade of wardrobe. But it is expected of women in my industry. 200/mo for waxing and eyelashes? I call bullshit. I don't know what your industry is but none of this is expected of women in mine. I am senior administration in a large school system and of the thousands of women working in my organization I don't know any that are expected to Botox for their jobs. These are vanity choices. That's fine if that's what you do, but the expectation is artificial. In my industry you fit into 4 roles: -young woman who is charming -older woman who fits into a motherly role -young man go getter -older male (75% of the industry) who hold all the power I've had brokers legit tell me if I wasn't "so pretty" they wouldn't have talked to me
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Post by pondrunner on Jul 8, 2017 16:13:15 GMT
200/mo for waxing and eyelashes? I call bullshit. I don't know what your industry is but none of this is expected of women in mine. I am senior administration in a large school system and of the thousands of women working in my organization I don't know any that are expected to Botox for their jobs. These are vanity choices. That's fine if that's what you do, but the expectation is artificial. In my industry you fit into 4 roles: -young woman who is charming -older woman who fits into a motherly role -young man go getter -older male (75% of the industry) who hold all the power I've had brokers legit tell me if I wasn't "so pretty" they wouldn't have talked to me So fucking sexist and shallow.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Jul 8, 2017 16:17:45 GMT
If it's about the heat of the DC swamp, why aren't the men wearing tank tops?
If men are wearing a suit and tie, women should be wearing something similar, not getting a pass because of their gender. Same goes for schools that allow skirts for girls but no shorts.
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courtney
Shy Member
Posts: 36
Jul 7, 2017 8:08:48 GMT
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Post by courtney on Jul 8, 2017 16:37:01 GMT
tell me this isn't professional bc it has cut off sleeves
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 8, 2017 16:40:03 GMT
tell me this isn't professional bc it has cut off sleeves Ladies' arms are so offensive and "distracting" in the workplace, though.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 8, 2017 16:47:53 GMT
They can wear uniforms. Red polos for the Republicans, Blue for the Dems, Purple for Independents. Black pants or knee-length skirt for either party or any gender. Done. Taking this one step further, Congresspeople should wear patches like NASCAR drivers so we know who they're beholden to for campaign donations.GREAT idea!! (bold mine)
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 8, 2017 17:41:55 GMT
Y'all know me. I can be a stodgy old fashion prissy pants when it comes to clothing etiquette...and I just can't get behind the outrage over sleeveless dresses being unprofessional. Maybe it is because I live in Florida? But I have seen some beautifully dressed, very professional, very ... everything sleevelessly dressed professional women. Most have jackets on hand if needed, but a lovely sheath dress with conservative jewelry? My inner Emily Post doesn't even bat an eyelash.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 7:33:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 18:24:38 GMT
So what is wrong with this? perfectly conservative IMO.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 7:33:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 18:27:09 GMT
Oh wait we have to have sleeves :
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 7:33:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 19:30:23 GMT
It has more to do with this STUPID administration (faux conservative, faux Christian) wanting to control womens' bodies. Of course, Melania with her past nude modeling + Ivanka with her modeling and suggestive pics, mean nothing! They are exempt, and can wear whatever they please! Yet Michelle Obama's sleeveless dress caused such an uproar! The woman couldn't have looked more conservative if she tried!
Leave my clothes, my shoes, my uterus and my choices up to me, you old pervs!
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Post by peasapie on Jul 8, 2017 19:34:13 GMT
Washington D.C. is so old school in attire, and many of the surrounding areas. People (men and women) wear suits a LOT of the time to work. I have noticed this every time I'm there. As a contrast, in NYC, dress-down Friday has morphed to dress-down everyday in many offices, and if you are meeting a client you take them to lunch so people in the office don't have to dress up. So... I get that they have these stupid old rules about sleeves in Washington, D.C. I hope women there put their foot down and tell these men we don't have to follow their rules. Maybe it's cause the men are such pervs that they start fantasizing when they see a woman's arms.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jul 8, 2017 21:49:06 GMT
It depends on the arms.
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Post by MsChiff on Jul 9, 2017 15:54:03 GMT
Who cares if a woman wears sleeves? Showing maybe 2 more inches of each arm than with a capped sleeve So what if men have to wear a suit jacket? Women are expected to have their hair and makeup perfectly done, wear a bra, pantyhose and heels. And are taken less seriously than men by 37% in wages. It makes me sick to think of how women are expected to spend all this money on different dresses ( because someone will surely notice if they wear the same one frequently) when men can get away will wearing the same couple of suits with a few different dress shirts over and over. They are also expected to, and spend a lot of money, to maintain a certain level of beauty to impress men, when men can get away with combing their hair and brushing their teeth in the morning. Which puts the wage in-equality even deeper for women. I was discussing this with a male coworker the other day. He asked how much I spend on beauty a month: ~$100/month manicures/pedicures ~ $100/ month hair ( usually spend ~300 every three months between one cut/highlight and a few blowdrys) ~$200/ month waxing and eyelashes $400/month...$4,800 a year spend on "women only" maintenance activities. Thats not even counting the money I spend on makeup or hair product, the botox I'll need soon, or my occasional spray tan. Or the frequent upgrade of wardrobe. But it is expected of women in my industry. Just because you buy into the mentality that your choices are requirements doesn't make them so. You choose to have regular manicures and pedicures. You choose to have someone else blow out your hair. You choose to be waxed. You choose to have your eyelashes done. You choose the makeup you wear and the hair products you use. You choose to have a spray tan. You choose to have botox. None are requirements of your job if you perform your job as well, or better, than the men with whom you work. Having regular manis and pedis is not a women only choice. I know men that choose to have them. I also know men that dye their hair regularly. I worked in business and government for 35 years. At no place that I worked were your "requirements" a reality. Some of the most successful women I know own 5 business suits and about an equal number of modest tops that they alternate through the days of the week. They wear hosiery and closed toe pumps. Minimal makeup and jewelry. They save dresses and cute outfits for when they're not at work. They don't have regular manicures (and when they do, the polish is neutral or clear) and certainly don't spend anywhere near $4,800 a year on "women only" maintenance activities. Yet they are very highly respected and have been promoted to the highest ranks of management. And at least one is a very successful broker. If a woman wants to be treated equally in the workplace, she needs to present herself in an equal manner. She needs to be equally competent and follow the same rules as men. Not accept different rules created just for women (including dressing differently) yet say she wants to be considered equal. They accept that if their peers are expected to wear a suit on a day when the temps are in the 90s or higher, they need to do the same. Business attired isn't designed to make one stand out from ones peers. Quite the contrary; it'd designed to make one blend in with his/her peers. By leveling the playing field regarding attire, employees are able to more easily be judged based on their performance. That's what happened with the women I referenced above. The stood out because of their performances. They were promoted because of their performances. They were judged as equals because they dressed the part and performed their jobs as equals, expecting no preferential treatment because of their sex. SaveSave
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 7:33:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 16:26:02 GMT
Who cares if a woman wears sleeves? Showing maybe 2 more inches of each arm than with a capped sleeve So what if men have to wear a suit jacket? Women are expected to have their hair and makeup perfectly done, wear a bra, pantyhose and heels. And are taken less seriously than men by 37% in wages. It makes me sick to think of how women are expected to spend all this money on different dresses ( because someone will surely notice if they wear the same one frequently) when men can get away will wearing the same couple of suits with a few different dress shirts over and over. They are also expected to, and spend a lot of money, to maintain a certain level of beauty to impress men, when men can get away with combing their hair and brushing their teeth in the morning. Which puts the wage in-equality even deeper for women. I was discussing this with a male coworker the other day. He asked how much I spend on beauty a month: ~$100/month manicures/pedicures ~ $100/ month hair ( usually spend ~300 every three months between one cut/highlight and a few blowdrys) ~$200/ month waxing and eyelashes $400/month...$4,800 a year spend on "women only" maintenance activities. Thats not even counting the money I spend on makeup or hair product, the botox I'll need soon, or my occasional spray tan. Or the frequent upgrade of wardrobe. But it is expected of women in my industry. Just because you buy into the mentality that your choices are requirements doesn't make them so. You choose to have regular manicures and pedicures. You choose to have someone else blow out your hair. You choose to be waxed. You choose to have your eyelashes done. You choose the makeup you wear and the hair products you use. You choose to have a spray tan. You choose to have botox. None are requirements of your job if you perform your job as well, or better, than the men with whom you work. Having regular manis and pedis is not a women only choice. I know men that choose to have them. I also know men that dye their hair regularly. I worked in business and government for 35 years. At no place that I worked were your "requirements" a reality. Some of the most successful women I know own 5 business suits and about an equal number of modest tops that they alternate through the days of the week. They wear hosiery and closed toe pumps. Minimal makeup and jewelry. They save dresses and cute outfits for when they're not at work. They don't have regular manicures (and when they do, the polish is neutral or clear) and certainly don't spend anywhere near $4,800 a year on "women only" maintenance activities. Yet they are very highly respected and have been promoted to the highest ranks of management. And at least one is a very successful broker. If a woman wants to be treated equally in the workplace, she needs to present herself in an equal manner. She needs to be equally competent and follow the same rules as men. Not accept different rules created just for women (including dressing differently) yet say she wants to be considered equal. They accept that if their peers are expected to wear a suit on a day when the temps are in the 90s or higher, they need to do the same. Business attired isn't designed to make one stand out from ones peers. Quite the contrary; it'd designed to make one blend in with his/her peers. By leveling the playing field regarding attire, employees are able to more easily be judged based on their performance. That's what happened with the women I referenced above. The stood out because of their performances. They were promoted because of their performances. They were judged as equals because they dressed the part and performed their jobs as equals, expecting no preferential treatment because of their sex. SaveSaveThat's old fashion thinking. What one wears should not be used as a criteria for being considered as equal. Or one of the guys. It is their experience and how they handle themselves on a day to day basis in the business world that makes them equal. I just left the workforce after spending 40 plus years working in the insurance industry in San Francisco. I worked with some of the most talented well respected women in the industry and not just in the Bay Area but globally as well. And they did not fall into that little scenario up above. They earned that respect through their ability and not how they dressed. Women can be just as professional looking wearing a sleeveless dress or top as they can wearing a suit. If others chose not to see that then it's on them and shows how shallow they are as human beings.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 9, 2017 16:32:11 GMT
The only problem with sleeveless dresses in a professional setting is you're going to freeze your ass off. If you're in a professional setting where men are expected to wear suits, you should anticipate the a/c will be set somewhere close to arctic, and plan accordingly.
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Post by pierogi on Jul 9, 2017 17:21:16 GMT
Who cares if a woman wears sleeves? Showing maybe 2 more inches of each arm than with a capped sleeve So what if men have to wear a suit jacket? Women are expected to have their hair and makeup perfectly done, wear a bra, pantyhose and heels. And are taken less seriously than men by 37% in wages. It makes me sick to think of how women are expected to spend all this money on different dresses ( because someone will surely notice if they wear the same one frequently) when men can get away will wearing the same couple of suits with a few different dress shirts over and over. They are also expected to, and spend a lot of money, to maintain a certain level of beauty to impress men, when men can get away with combing their hair and brushing their teeth in the morning. Which puts the wage in-equality even deeper for women. I was discussing this with a male coworker the other day. He asked how much I spend on beauty a month: ~$100/month manicures/pedicures ~ $100/ month hair ( usually spend ~300 every three months between one cut/highlight and a few blowdrys) ~$200/ month waxing and eyelashes $400/month...$4,800 a year spend on "women only" maintenance activities. Thats not even counting the money I spend on makeup or hair product, the botox I'll need soon, or my occasional spray tan. Or the frequent upgrade of wardrobe. But it is expected of women in my industry. 200/mo for waxing and eyelashes? I call bullshit. I don't know what your industry is but none of this is expected of women in mine. I am senior administration in a large school system and of the thousands of women working in my organization I don't know any that are expected to Botox for their jobs. These are vanity choices. That's fine if that's what you do, but the expectation is artificial. I used to live and work in LA. I know that what she's described must sound so surreal to civilians/outsiders, but she's spot on. Even if one isn't an actress or model, if you work in any area of the entertainment industry, you are expected to uphold a certain grooming standard that the rest of the country might find insane. And it is, but that's the reality. I always laugh my face off when I hear conservatives screaming about "Liberal Hollywood." Bullshit. The level of sexism accepted everywhere from the mailrooms to writers' rooms to studio meetings would make your hair stand on end. Women have stood up to it and lost their jobs for the effort. Not only that, they won't get hired anywhere else, because word gets quickly around that they're troublemakers. Sure they could try suing, and some have, but they're going up against powerful corporations who have unlimited time, money and lawyers. They'll settle, gag her with a non-disclosure, and move on like before. If you're covered by one of the unions, you have much more protection, but the average young office worker has no such shield. I don't know what it will take to change this. Perhaps someday a gigantic class action suit of many many high-visibility women might hurt them enough financially to do the right thing, because they sure as sugar won't do it out the kindness of their hearts.
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Post by pierogi on Jul 9, 2017 17:24:19 GMT
In my industry you fit into 4 roles: -young woman who is charming -older woman who fits into a motherly role -young man go getter -older male (75% of the industry) who hold all the power I've had brokers legit tell me if I wasn't "so pretty" they wouldn't have talked to me So fucking sexist and shallow. Think about how comfortable they were in their assholery to say that to her face.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 9, 2017 18:20:29 GMT
tell me this isn't professional bc it has cut off sleeves I think this dress is cute and looks great on you. But no. I don't think it's professional. It looks like a dress I'd wear to a party, rather than the office. I was an executive who often worked in LA, and sometimes with clients in the entertainment industry. I think most people in that industry groom to a different level than other industries.
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