Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 3:39:36 GMT
and is now dead.
He graduated from our school last year. My DS is good friends with the boy's younger sister.
He started college (at a known "party school" a few weeks ago) There was an "incident" of some kind after midnight last night/this morning. (DS told me what he heard...including from the sister...but it doesn't really jive with what I've read so far online and the police report gives very little in regards to details.
The incident was at a bar. The boy was beaten and was found unresponsive. His family took him off life support this afternoon.
I'm sick because looking at his very active social media accounts, he was a drinker. 18yrs old. He was arrested at the age of 17 for possession of alcohol by a minor. With all of the activity on social media, why didn't the parents see this very important issue? With his arrest earlier this summer, I sure wish they had taken the drinking and arrest more seriously. Did they just assume that he "parties" and assume since all his friends "party" that it's "normal" and "ok"? I'm not even his "friend" on FB or twitter and was able to see so much that any adult close to him should've seen.
I'm not getting all judgy with the parents...God knows they'll live the rest of their lives without their son...but that thought of all the underage drinking and the terrible consequences of not only excessive alcohol consumption (by anyone, of any age) but the entire underage aspect...it really just makes me ill. I am not a heavy drinker. My parents were both alcoholics. I do drink on occasion and I've been very deliberate in enjoying a drink on occasion in front of my underaged children. I don't want alcohol to be "forbidden" or seen as taboo. There's nothing wrong with alcohol...in moderation and enjoyed by responsible adults who will not be operating a vehicle. But then I see stuff like this and it really makes me loathe alcohol.
D [HASH]2 graduated last year...so she's his age...but clearly they hung in a much different social circle, so I'm not even sure she knew him.
If your kids are drinking heavily in high school...PLEASE get them help. Sending them off to college with a drinking problem is not the answer. It's not cool. It's not okay. It's dangerous...and deadly.
EDITED TO ADD - Seeing this photo taken this morning, as students gathered around the football field...this is where my brain is today. Nothing but sorrow for these students who lost a friend. Nothing but sorrow for the girl who lost her big brother and the parents that lost a son. No more questions or "what if's" from me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 3:46:36 GMT
I'm not sure what they could have done. He was an adult. Cut him off and not pay for his school? Force him into rehab? Require some scheduled breathalyzer and drug tests somewhere near his school? The underage drinking at the age at 17? There's no way to know how it was handled by his parents. Even if it was done poorly, at 18 they don't have much of a say in his choices.
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Post by traceys on Aug 29, 2014 3:48:01 GMT
So sad......Unfortunately, I think it's just the kind of thing that people don't take seriously. The attitude is that all the kids do it and it's no big deal. I know here in my small town if the police break up a party with underage drinking and actually write citations, most of the criticism is directed at them, rather than the kids who were drinking.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 4:04:28 GMT
I'm not sure what they could have done. He was an adult. Cut him off and not pay for his school? Force him into rehab? Require some scheduled breathalyzer and drug tests somewhere near his school? The underage drinking at the age at 17? There's no way to know how it was handled by his parents. Even if it was done poorly, at 18 they don't have much of a say in his choices. True...I have no idea how his arrest this summer was handled by his parents.
And yes, at 18 they may not have much of a say...but I'd like to think that they could have/may have had some kind of influence on him. (and thinking about a friend of mine...whose stepson was busted for underage possession at a party...they were active in his rehab on so many levels...and her stepson was over 18 as well.)
And again...not trying to judge the parents...like you said I have no clue what they did or did not do.
So tragic. A life cut way too short...because of alcohol.
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Post by Zee on Aug 29, 2014 4:06:11 GMT
It's sad but all sorts of people drink in HS and college and don't get beaten to death at a bar, or necessarily grow up to be alcoholics. I don't know what anyone should have done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 4:11:31 GMT
I was drunk at bars multiple times when I was in college (even when underage GASP) and so were most of my friends. None of us ever got beaten to death or otherwise injured and none of us are alcoholics.
It's a very sad story but it's not fair to assume it could have been avoided if the parents did something differently.
Heck, he could have been there stone cold sober as a designated driver but the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person could have led to the same tragic end. (I'm not saying that IS what happened, I'm just saying that alcohol isn't the only factor here.)
ETA:
I am not saying that underage drinking is NBD. It's definitely not optimal and parents should certainly do their best to help their children be safe with alcohol, which ideally would include abstaining until of legal age. If it seems there is an addiction issue, absolutely professional help should be sought. However, it's entirely unfair to assume that 1) the parents did nothing in light of his arrest, 2) going to this school made it worse, 3) this wouldn't have happened if they'd done something, 4) this wouldn't have happened if he didn't drink, and 5) going to a different college or not going to college would have fixed the problem.
I went to a Lutheran-affiliated college and we had a dry campus. Still... there was lots of drinking. Like it or not, at almost all colleges, there will be. Party school or not.
Also, there was a kid a couple years younger than me at my high school who got in trouble for drinking after graduation. His parents decided he could not go away to college because he could not be trusted. He died 6 months later, a few blocks from his home, when he was hit by a train (stone cold sober). Would he still be alive if his parents had let him go to college as planned? Maybe. Is putting any blame on them any more fair that putting blame on the parents in this situation? Nope. Parents do the best they can and sometimes, things still go horribly, tragically wrong.
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Post by delilahtwo on Aug 29, 2014 4:17:04 GMT
I am not sure what the parents could have done to prevent this. Kids do stupid things all the time and if you think that as parents we are able to keep them in check all the time, that just isn't so. If your kid is determined to drink underage, they will do it. They think they are invincible and that parents are stupid. As parents, we do our best and hopefully the kids watched and learned from us but sometimes they make bad decisions and that's just how it is. They are their own people.
"If your kids are drinking heavily in high school...PLEASE get them help. Sending them off to college with a drinking problem is not the answer. It's not cool. It's not okay. It's dangerous...and deadly."
So what should you do? How do you force them to become sober? Lock them in their room forever? There are no good and easy answers here.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Aug 29, 2014 5:26:41 GMT
and is now dead.
He graduated from our school last year. My DS is good friends with the boy's younger sister.
He started college (at a known "party school" a few weeks ago) There was an "incident" of some kind after midnight last night/this morning. (DS told me what he heard...including from the sister...but it doesn't really jive with what I've read so far online and the police report gives very little in regards to details.
The incident was at a bar. The boy was beaten and was found unresponsive. His family took him off life support this afternoon.
I'm sick because looking at his very active social media accounts, he was a drinker. 18yrs old. He was arrested at the age of 17 for possession of alcohol by a minor. With all of the activity on social media, why didn't the parents see this very important issue? With his arrest earlier this summer, I sure wish they had taken the drinking and arrest more seriously. Did they just assume that he "parties" and assume since all his friends "party" that it's "normal" and "ok"? I'm not even his "friend" on FB or twitter and was able to see so much that any adult close to him should've seen.
I'm not getting all judgy with the parents...God knows they'll live the rest of their lives without their son...but that thought of all the underage drinking and the terrible consequences of not only excessive alcohol consumption (by anyone, of any age) but the entire underage aspect...it really just makes me ill. I am not a heavy drinker. My parents were both alcoholics. I do drink on occasion and I've been very deliberate in enjoying a drink on occasion in front of my underaged children. I don't want alcohol to be "forbidden" or seen as taboo. There's nothing wrong with alcohol...in moderation and enjoyed by responsible adults who will not be operating a vehicle. But then I see stuff like this and it really makes me loathe alcohol.
D [HASH]2 graduated last year...so she's his age...but clearly they hung in a much different social circle, so I'm not even sure she knew him.
If your kids are drinking heavily in high school...PLEASE get them help. Sending them off to college with a drinking problem is not the answer. It's not cool. It's not okay. It's dangerous...and deadly. Actually, you are being completely judgmental of the parents. He was an adult. In college. What do you think they should have done? And what guarantee do you have that they DIDN'T do anything? |
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Deleted
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Jun 17, 2024 4:02:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 5:36:17 GMT
If my underage son were openly breaking the law, bragging about it on social media, and completely distegarding everything we had taught him about alcohol consumption, i would not be footing the bill for his "party school". Call me crazy.
OP, I'm so sorry for your loss.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,395
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Aug 29, 2014 6:16:32 GMT
Their son is dead, and the OP is giving the parents a verbal kicking for the poor choice their adult son made. Wow.
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Post by DinCA on Aug 29, 2014 7:13:29 GMT
There but for the grace of God go I.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Aug 29, 2014 8:29:07 GMT
If my underage son were openly breaking the law, bragging about it on social media, and completely distegarding everything we had taught him about alcohol consumption, i would not be footing the bill for his "party school". Call me crazy. OP, I'm so sorry for your loss. How do you know the parents were paying of his 'party school?' Maybe he was on scholarship. |
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Post by pelirroja on Aug 29, 2014 9:23:15 GMT
It's a sad story all the way around. But you don't know what the parents did or didn't do and you certainly don't know if the boy's behavior in the bar contributed to this event. I feel there should be no judgment of the parents at all (sorry, your OP does sound judgy to me): there's too much heartbreak regardless of the background info. What's done is done and life will never be the same again.
As a parent to teenagers, I agree with DinCA, there but for the grace of God, go I. It's easy to judge parenting when your (general you) kids are young but as they get older, we have less influence over them. Financial leverage doesn't always work, doctors don't have to disclose info to a parent, and trying to force someone over 18 into rehab doesn't work well if that 18 year old knows their legal rights to refuse. I don't know what the parents could have done to "fix" this as I firmly believe it was the son who should be accountable for his own behavior if he's over 18. No one can make you drink or make you stop: a problem drinker has got to want sobriety for himself and clearly this man/boy hadn't reached that point yet. Now, there will never be a chance for redemption and my heart goes out to those parents who have to say goodbye to their son too soon.
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Post by smokey2471 on Aug 29, 2014 9:58:22 GMT
Was this at Ga Southern? In Ga? If not there is a local story here about an 18 year old killed at a bar.fighting with an employee (who was also probably drinking) sad all around. What a shame.ETA the employee was not working at the time. Underage drinking is and has always been a problem at Ga Southern
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Aug 29, 2014 10:02:22 GMT
I was drunk at bars multiple times when I was in college (even when underage GASP) and so were most of my friends. None of us ever got beaten to death or otherwise injured and none of us are alcoholics. It's a very sad story but it's not fair to assume it could have been avoided if the parents did something differently. Heck, he could have been there stone cold sober as a designated driver but the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person could have led to the same tragic end. (I'm not saying that IS what happened, I'm just saying that alcohol isn't the only factor here.) That same scenario happened in my town recently. He wasn't quite sober, but he wasn't drunk either. A fight broke out in a bar, and he tried to break it up. When it was all said and done, he was at the bottom of the pile with a fatal stab wound. By all accounts, he was a "good" kid who was just trying to help out a friend, but he ended up dead anyway, killed by a 31 year old man who was not a student and had no connection to the university where the victim was set to start classes just a couple of weeks after he died. It is unlikely that they ever would have crossed paths any other time in their lives.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 29, 2014 10:24:38 GMT
My kid might be 18 and an adult, but as his parent, if I found out he was drinking excessively you can bet I wouldn't be standing around going 'oh, he's an adult, there's nothing i can do'. Of course I would have done something when he was arrested at 17, but still, at 18 I still have a lot of influence over my child and I'd use it to get him into therapy, out of a party school and maybe into a school close to home...especially if I'm paying for it, and most parents do pay for something while their kids are in college whether it's the car, insurance, tuition, clothes, books, there's usually a financial involvement, but I'd still find a way to get my child back on the right path.
There's always a chance that your child could end up dead, even if they're the best kid in the world, but one with a known issue...yeah, parental intervention is called for.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 29, 2014 10:50:19 GMT
Their son is dead, and the OP is giving the parents a verbal kicking for the poor choice their adult son made. Wow. It is interesting how two people can read the same thing and get a totally different vibe. |
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by mallie on Aug 29, 2014 11:32:42 GMT
I wonder what their local culture was like. Around here -- small town rural midwest -- it's very common for parents to give their teens alcohol to "teach them how to drink" or because "they're going to drink anyway, they are better off doing it at home". Teen underage drinking citations are usually treated as a rite of passage. Most everyone does go to the local party school. There is incredible denial about the dangers of the mix of young people and alcohol and when bad stuff happens, there is no collective wake up call. I can remember not long ago a teen died while driving drunk and the comments section of the local tv station's report on it were filled with comments, "Poor kid, drunk driving happens to everyone, he just got caught." So I can see if that's your culture, it might not even occur to the parents that there was anything wrong or actionable. (Not an excuse, but a possible explanation.)
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Deleted
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Jun 17, 2024 4:02:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 11:53:20 GMT
Was this at Ga Southern? In Ga? If not there is a local story here about an 18 year old killed at a bar.fighting with an employee (who was also probably drinking) sad all around. What a shame.ETA the employee was not working at the time. Underage drinking is and has always been a problem at Ga Southern Yes...the employee arrested was only 20. Before he turned himself in, the police released his previous mugshot...so this employee (an off duty bouncer) has been arrested before. He's now lost his job and while he's not dead, his life, as he knew it is over.
GSU has the reputation as the party school because of this underage drinking. When DD#2 was looking at schools, she wouldn't even consider GSU.
It would be nice if this bar would be shut down...it seems they did not open last night...out of respect for the family of the deceased AND to aid in the police investigation.
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Deleted
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Jun 17, 2024 4:02:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 11:58:44 GMT
My kid might be 18 and an adult, but as his parent, if I found out he was drinking excessively you can bet I wouldn't be standing around going 'oh, he's an adult, there's nothing i can do'. Of course I would have done something when he was arrested at 17, but still, at 18 I still have a lot of influence over my child and I'd use it to get him into therapy, out of a party school and maybe into a school close to home...especially if I'm paying for it, and most parents do pay for something while their kids are in college whether it's the car, insurance, tuition, clothes, books, there's usually a financial involvement, but I'd still find a way to get my child back on the right path. There's always a chance that your child could end up dead, even if they're the best kid in the world, but one with a known issue...yeah, parental intervention is called for. Exactly. Based on the replies, I was beginning to think that I was the only one that had this opinion. As I said, I had a friend whose stepson was arrested underage at a party and my friend and her hubby were by his side all the way from court appearances, visits with the attorney, and into rehab.
Perhaps the difference here is that my friend's stepson was over 18 (but under 21, obviously) when he was arrested. The boy that died yesterday was only 17 when he was arrested. So he could've had a very different route through the court system than my friend had with her stepson.
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Deleted
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Jun 17, 2024 4:02:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 12:02:45 GMT
I wonder what their local culture was like. Around here -- small town rural midwest -- it's very common for parents to give their teens alcohol to "teach them how to drink" or because "they're going to drink anyway, they are better off doing it at home". Teen underage drinking citations are usually treated as a rite of passage. Most everyone does go to the local party school. There is incredible denial about the dangers of the mix of young people and alcohol and when bad stuff happens, there is no collective wake up call. I can remember not long ago a teen died while driving drunk and the comments section of the local tv station's report on it were filled with comments, "Poor kid, drunk driving happens to everyone, he just got caught." So I can see if that's your culture, it might not even occur to the parents that there was anything wrong or actionable. (Not an excuse, but a possible explanation.) Very good points. (and based on replies...underage drinking is "normal"...everyone did it) |
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gloryjoy
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by gloryjoy on Aug 29, 2014 13:01:11 GMT
Such a sad story, he had his whole life ahead of him  . |
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 29, 2014 13:26:06 GMT
I grew up in a large university town that was well known for it's parties, and later went to college in what was considered at the time the number one party school. Among other things, we drank like fish, and I am constantly amazed that none us ended up with anything worse than raging hangovers.
I just sent a kid off to college...and I am not naive enough to think that he won't be just like me in college. I just pray that all the lessons I tried to teach him will help him make better choices, but I know that there will be drinking and partying and all that goes with it. But he is paying for his classes himself, and I am 8 hours away so there is nothing I can do beyond hope and pray that he gets through it all.
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Post by kmk1112 on Aug 29, 2014 14:05:43 GMT
I think that your attitude about alcohol has been colored by your experience with your parents (and rightly so.) It's a big jump to go from any underage drinking, even with an arrest, to needing to go to rehab and asking why the parents didn't make sure that happened.
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Post by compwalla on Aug 29, 2014 14:06:31 GMT
I and nearly 100% of my college friends could have ended up the same way. Mostly I think people who live past the folly of youth were just fucking lucky.
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Post by Pahina722 on Aug 29, 2014 14:36:18 GMT
You don't know what the parents did or did not do/know/try with their son. And, despite everything they might have done, he could still have chosen to go to a bar, get in a brawl, and end up dead. Unless Mommy and Daddy are prepared to shadow their child every second of his adult life, they can never protect him from his own bad choices.
Example: my nephew was kicked out of middle school for stealing his grandmother's pills and selling them to kids. His grandparents immediately put him into therapy and rehab. He totaled two cars and wracked up three DUI's before he turned 18. Back to rehab and counseling again. The pattern continues. He's now almost 29, has never lived on his own, is in and out of jail and rehabs, yet refuses to stop drinking and just generally being an asshat. My parents (his grandparents) have spent well over $100,000 on rehabs, lawyer and court fees, counseling, etc., while his father continues to keep him employed (at least when he's not in jail) despite his behavior. NEPHEW doesn't care and doesn't want to change.
So, to repeat, you have no idea what the parents' response was in the past, yet you're essentially blaming them for their son's death. As a PP said, "there but for the grace of God go I . . . And perhaps YOU."
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Post by sillyrabbit on Aug 29, 2014 14:46:08 GMT
As a parent who has struggled with getting my teenage addict DS help, I have to say you have no idea what the parents have done or been thru. My DS got arrested for a PI at 16. He had to see a CDW for counseling. We worked thru it with him and thought things were better. Then when he was just past 18, he got arrested again. We didn't bail him out of jail. We made him pay the consequences of his actions. We have spent thousands of dollars putting him thru rehab twice. Now, he seems to be doing very well. But the fact is he's an addict, and as much as I want to lock him up in our house and never let him go that's just not reality. He's a grownup now. He wants to make a life for himself which is what the goal behind all this intervention was. I think he'll do great, but he could end up like this kid tomorrow and there's really not anything I can do about it. Instead of judgement, you should be thanking your lucky stars you've never had to parent an addict. It's constant worry...are they sober or are they using again? Are they in jail? It gets to the point where you are thankful for them being in jail because it's a safe place. It's not something I ever thought I'd experience, but it's the hand we were dealt. And it's a really shitty hand. But I'm hopeful.
(Sorry to go on about my issues...didn't mean to hijack with me, me, me.)
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Deleted
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Jun 17, 2024 4:02:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 15:03:41 GMT
As a parent who has struggled with getting my teenage addict DS help, I have to say you have no idea what the parents have done or been thru. My DS got arrested for a PI at 16. He had to see a CDW for counseling. We worked thru it with him and thought things were better. Then when he was just past 18, he got arrested again. We didn't bail him out of jail. We made him pay the consequences of his actions. We have spent thousands of dollars putting him thru rehab twice. Now, he seems to be doing very well. But the fact is he's an addict, and as much as I want to lock him up in our house and never let him go that's just not reality. He's a grownup now. He wants to make a life for himself which is what the goal behind all this intervention was. I think he'll do great, but he could end up like this kid tomorrow and there's really not anything I can do about it. Instead of judgement, you should be thanking your lucky stars you've never had to parent an addict. It's constant worry...are they sober or are they using again? Are they in jail? It gets to the point where you are thankful for them being in jail because it's a safe place. It's not something I ever thought I'd experience, but it's the hand we were dealt. And it's a really shitty hand. But I'm hopeful. (Sorry to go on about my issues...didn't mean to hijack with me, me, me.) You're right...in so many ways. While I can thank my lucky stars that I haven't had to parent an addict, my children are far from perfect and we've had plenty of difficulty. In addition, while I didn't parent an addict, my childhood years were spent being parented by addicts, finally being kicked out of the house by my alcoholic mother in 7th grade. Because my alcoholic father was unable to even care for himself, he couldn't take care of me. Honest to God sometimes I wonder how I survived my own childhood. (and while underaged drinking was rarely my activity of choice...I did plenty of stupid things that were both highly illegal and beyond dangerous)
So I know all about being dealt shitty hands.
I'm sorry you too have a shitty hand...I really hope that your son is able to turn around and am glad you are hopeful.
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Post by tiffanyannhulsey on Aug 29, 2014 15:05:22 GMT
I'm not getting all judgy with the parents...
Any time you have to use this phrase, you are in fact being judgmental. "When DD#2 was looking at schools, she wouldn't even consider GSU." Well, I guess your daughter is a better person that the boy and, thereby, you are a better parent. Geez... |
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Post by scrappinjen on Aug 29, 2014 15:14:57 GMT
This is a tragic story-and since it's close to you and you have children their same ages... I am sure you are trying to rationalize to make it make sense. I am sorry to hear a young life was cut too short needlessly. I am glad you posted here but please don't repeat this sentiment in your community.
Whether you realize or not your post does sound VERY judgmental of the parents. You can not honestly know how they have battled this on the home front. You are assuming they missed the social media clues, didn't respond enough after the arrest, allowed him to be at a party school to further the problem. All if which I doubt you can know for sure to be true.
Lots goes on behind closed doors and perhaps they did try. Perhaps they begged him not to go to make good choices when he got there. Maybe they hoped a new environment would give him a clean slate and a new direction in life. Maybe they were worried about him like most parents do when their new adult moves out for the first time. Most likely their worst nightmares just came true. Be kind and considerate. Maybe even I've them an empathetic gesture of dinner or a card.
You have your own circumstances of how you were raised and how you approach alcohol but now is not the time to pin it on them and judge. They have more than enough to learn how to deal with and accept.
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