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Post by #notLauren on Aug 27, 2017 16:52:41 GMT
I personally don't want to beat my head against a wall so I ask this in all sincerity. Are the people who generally post here on the political threads actually looking for discourse or are they just looking for a place to voice their frustrations and upset with the current administration and don't want to hear any opposing viewpoints?
It seems to me, based on the responses opposing viewpoints get, that people want the latter. I'm not passing judgement, I'm asking because if people just want to vent with like minded people, then I'll pass over those threads. I don't want to get into altercations with faceless people on the internet. I love a good political discussion but if that's not what the political threads here are about, then I'll avoid them. Arguing about politics is like pissing in the wind. If people are actually looking for discourse, then I think many need to look at *how* they conduct a discourse and ways to let everyone feel comfortable enough to voice their opinions about politics. My friends and I are able to do it in real life; is it possible on a message board?
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Post by lisacharlotte on Aug 27, 2017 17:04:06 GMT
I'd say, no. This is not the place for civil discourse when it comes to politics. You need to meet that need elsewhere.
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Post by #notLauren on Aug 27, 2017 17:09:50 GMT
Thank you for you honest response.
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Post by pjaye on Aug 27, 2017 17:22:24 GMT
Nope when it comes to that fuckfit Donald Trump no civil discourse is to be had.
The man is such an unfit president and he has made it abundantly clear over and over again how clueless he is about everything that pertains to the role, his administration is a complete clusterfuck, his greedy family & friends are busy lining their own pockets and he has the intelligence and temperament of an angry toddler.
Anyone who voted for him and now wants to defend him is not capable of rational thought or discussion.
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502 
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Post by AmandaA on Aug 27, 2017 17:23:10 GMT
I'd guess 90% of the threads are vent threads and people looking to commiserate over what is happening to our country (and if someone is generally looking for discussion they will usually say that up front, much like you qualified your first post as a genuine question). People who fail to recognize that fact and go in guns blazing trying justify are going to come out in rough shape... it doesn't take a genius to realize that. But then they'll claim to be attacked, abused, shut down or whatever which starts a whole other argument. Seriously... go swimming in a suit made of meat and expect to be eaten by sharks. And I say this as someone who from time to time does participate in political threads. Unfortunately, I think that the time for civil discourse has long since passed given how the past 7 months have gone.
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Post by #notLauren on Aug 27, 2017 17:27:35 GMT
Thanks Amanda. There seems to be a lot of fun things about this board and I'll stick to the book threads and other good info threads rather than wading into the political ones anymore.
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Post by melanell on Aug 27, 2017 17:27:39 GMT
I am definitely looking to listen to what others have to say. My main goal with any of the posts here are to learn new things and to try to better understand other people. That being said, I find that I typically only have a chance of that happening if I catch the very beginning of a political or controversial thread, because by the time people start getting agitated it's typically too late for conversation. I also find it very hard to find understanding here because many people seem to be conditioned against answering questions---as if they feel questions are some sort of a trap. If you ask a question to truly try to better understand, people often either ignore you or answer back with snark, both of which pretty much kill any chance of real conversation.  |
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 27, 2017 17:29:54 GMT
I personally don't want to beat my head against a wall so I ask this in all sincerity. Are the people who generally post here on the political threads actually looking for discourse or are they just looking for a place to voice their frustrations and upset with the current administration and don't want to hear any opposing viewpoints? Speaking as someone whose first thread read & posted to at peas was a political thread, I'll just say that I refuse to even open almost any thread marked political now. I'll let come to your own conclusions. |
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Post by #notLauren on Aug 27, 2017 17:31:11 GMT
Got it.
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Post by pondrunner on Aug 27, 2017 17:33:23 GMT
I have generally been a political moderate and been inclined to listen to both sides of an argument, but as this political season marches on I lose tolerance for what passes for discourse any longer. I still enjoy a good discussion based on facts, evidence, logic and worldview. Just not the "so there, nyah nyah nyah" kind of bullshit that goes on today. Politics is so garbage anymore.
Oddly at the same time I find myself being pushed further left by moderates who won't condemn racism and sexism where it still exists in our society today.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 27, 2017 17:39:20 GMT
I have learned so much here. Changed a few of my viewpoints as well over the years. I enjoy a civil discourse. I loved this board and how much I learned from it.
BUT I don't feel there's any civil discourse to be had about Trump. You want to talk bills in the senate or platforms or whatever fine I'll listen and hope you will too.
I've disliked Trump for many years. There was no way I'd vote for him ever because he's always been a narcissistic asshole, now he's a narcissistic asshole with dementia. He panders to white supremacists, insults our allies left & right and breaks nearly every ethic rule there is. And that's without even getting into handing secrets over to Putin.?No, I don't have patience for civil discourse about Trump, won't change my mind.
He is the worst thing politically to happen to this country since I've been alive - tops Nixon by a landslide.
But General Kelly seems to be cleaning house perhaps he can save us from the Buffoon. Who knows
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,121
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 27, 2017 17:39:59 GMT
If someone continues to support this president, who has proven himself to approve of white supremacy and frankly put seems mentally unstable, then there is nothing I want to discuss with them.
Otherwise, I love a good political discussion with opposing views.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 27, 2017 17:46:01 GMT
I really think that policy issues can be discussed. And I would like to see that here. I am a moderate. I do have some issues where I lean conservative and I like seeing constructive discussion of policy issues. But Donald Trump is a hot mess. I think the threads related to him specifically here are generally too hot to Wade into. I cannot defend him. And I don't think anyone here wants to hear a defense of him. I read all the political threads. I credit the peas with making me lean more liberal by posting good policy discussions. So I do think there's value there. There are some conservative peas like Darcy Collins who can post things and keep discussion civil. I appreciate and often agree with her input. But Donald Trump is just a hot button issue. Even if I agreed with what he was doing and I have yet to find something I agree with I would never step up to defend him. There's just too much wrong with him.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 4:07:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 17:47:27 GMT
This is definitely not the place for civil discussions of political ideas. At first I liked the Politics tag because the subject interests me and I'm always learning. But now I like it because it helps me avoid threads in which there is nothing for me to learn or from which to grow.
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Post by Woobster on Aug 27, 2017 17:51:21 GMT
A red tag for political threads was created for a reason. I've found this place to be much more enjoyable by just steering clear of those discussions.
They get ugly. Fast!
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Post by LiLi on Aug 27, 2017 17:56:02 GMT
I know you aren't. Just a look at your posts says so.
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 27, 2017 18:18:35 GMT
I have learned so much here. Changed a few of my viewpoints as well over the years. I enjoy a civil discourse. I loved this board and how much I learned from it. BUT I don't feel there's any civil discourse to be had about Trump. You want to talk bills in the senate or platforms or whatever fine I'll listen and hope you will too. I've disliked Trump for many years. There was no way I'd vote for him ever because he's always been a narcissistic asshole, now he's a narcissistic asshole with dementia. He panders to white supremacists, insults our allies left & right and breaks nearly every ethic rule there is. And that's without even getting into handing secrets over to Putin.?No, I don't have patience for civil discourse about Trump, won't change my mind. He is the worst thing politically to happen to this country since I've been alive - tops Nixon by a landslide. But General Kelly seems to be cleaning house perhaps he can save us from the Buffoon. Who knows - it would be very helpful now if you slap a political banner on your thread title. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 27, 2017 18:19:54 GMT
I really think that policy issues can be discussed. Ok, now that's just downright funny right there.  |
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 27, 2017 18:21:43 GMT
I personally don't want to beat my head against a wall so I ask this in all sincerity. Are the people who generally post here on the political threads actually looking for discourse or are they just looking for a place to voice their frustrations and upset with the current administration and don't want to hear any opposing viewpoints? It seems to me, based on the responses opposing viewpoints get, that people want the latter. I'm not passing judgement, I'm asking because if people just want to vent with like minded people, then I'll pass over those threads. I don't want to get into altercations with faceless people on the internet. I love a good political discussion but if that's not what the political threads here are about, then I'll avoid them. Arguing about politics is like pissing in the wind. If people are actually looking for discourse, then I think many need to look at *how* they conduct a discourse and ways to let everyone feel comfortable enough to voice their opinions about politics. My friends and I are able to do it in real life; is it possible on a message board? What does "civil discourse" look like to you? What "opposing viewpoint" do you think is not being heard right now? I am curious to know how your conversations in real life about this go (with people whose opinions/political leanings are not the same as yours), and how you think that could translate here. |
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
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Post by scrapaddie on Aug 27, 2017 18:22:13 GMT
Nope when it comes to that fuckfit Donald Trump no civil discourse is to be had. The man is such an unfit president and he has made it abundantly clear over and over again how clueless he is about everything that pertains to the role, his administration is a complete clusterfuck, his greedy family & friends are busy lining their own pockets and he has the intelligence and temperament of an angry toddler. Anyone who voted for him and now wants to defend him is not capable of rational thought or discussion. Proof there is no civil discourse here |
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Post by pjaye on Aug 27, 2017 19:03:24 GMT
Proof there is no civil discourse here Are you claiming to be some kind of genius for working that out from my post? As if my words could not have been any more obvious or inflammatory...but go ahead and pat yourself on the back anyway Sherlock. It also probably escaped your attention that my response was directed to this particular OP...and you may be able to congratulate yourself again when it finally dawns on you who this is. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 27, 2017 19:04:42 GMT
.and you may be able to congratulate yourself again when it finally dawns on you who this is. Gullible, thy name is pea. Doesn't even sound like *her in the least. ETA - *her = who I think you mean |
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Post by pjaye on Aug 27, 2017 19:05:50 GMT
Doesn't even sound like her in the least. Then you might want to try reading between the lines. |
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Post by mom on Aug 27, 2017 19:09:10 GMT
I'd say, no. This is not the place for civil discourse when it comes to politics. You need to meet that need elsewhere. I agree. And its gotten to the point I even bother with the political threads anymore because all they are are one long bitch session. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 27, 2017 19:09:20 GMT
Doesn't even sound like her in the least. Then you might want to try reading between the lines. I'm under heavy stress and I haven't slept. I'm going to kindly leave that open invitation on the table just as it was presented and walk away. Y'all may have as many last words as you desire. |
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,994
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Aug 27, 2017 19:25:10 GMT
IMHO political threads (& others where politics are randomly inserted & derail/change the conversation) are essentially partisan pep rallies. Respectful opinion sharing & idea exchanges don't happen on this site.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 27, 2017 19:31:58 GMT
I have learned so much here. Changed a few of my viewpoints as well over the years. I enjoy a civil discourse. I loved this board and how much I learned from it. BUT I don't feel there's any civil discourse to be had about Trump. You want to talk bills in the senate or platforms or whatever fine I'll listen and hope you will too. I've disliked Trump for many years. There was no way I'd vote for him ever because he's always been a narcissistic asshole, now he's a narcissistic asshole with dementia. He panders to white supremacists, insults our allies left & right and breaks nearly every ethic rule there is. And that's without even getting into handing secrets over to Putin.?No, I don't have patience for civil discourse about Trump, won't change my mind. He is the worst thing politically to happen to this country since I've been alive - tops Nixon by a landslide. But General Kelly seems to be cleaning house perhaps he can save us from the Buffoon. Who knows - it would be very helpful now if you slap a political banner on your thread title. I'm sorry if I offended you. Not my intent. I fully admit I have an issue with Trump prior to any of this that affects my opinion on him. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 4:07:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 19:32:26 GMT
Nope when it comes to that fuckfit Donald Trump no civil discourse is to be had. The man is such an unfit president and he has made it abundantly clear over and over again how clueless he is about everything that pertains to the role, his administration is a complete clusterfuck, his greedy family & friends are busy lining their own pockets and he has the intelligence and temperament of an angry toddler. Anyone who voted for him and now wants to defend him is not capable of rational thought or discussion. It also probably escaped your attention that my response was directed to this particular OP...and you may be able to congratulate yourself again when it finally dawns on you who this is. (Bold is mine) So your original response would've been different if it wasn't someone you thought to be Lauren, Gia, etc? |
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Post by jennyap on Aug 27, 2017 19:43:45 GMT
I don't think you can generalise. Some people want discussion, some people want to vent / commiserate, some people want to do both - and which it is at any given time could be down to a number reasons, including the specific subject, their mood, who else is around, etc.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
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Post by pyccku on Aug 27, 2017 19:52:48 GMT
Civil discourse is great. Debate is great.
But you have to understand that many people are not interested in actual debate about political things. Not because people aren't able to speak politely - but because you have one side of the debate that is frequently unwilling to accept any sort of evidence the other side might bring up. You get arguments like:
There seem to be a lot of unexplained ties between Russia and the Trump campaign. Perhaps we should look into this, and take steps to avoid it in the future. The other side responds: "FAKE NEWS! WHY ARE YOU GETTING THIS CRAP FROM THE MSM? NO TIES, IT'S ALL A NOTHINGBURGER!!!!!!!!!!!!"
The ACA could be improved - but taking insurance away from millions of people without coming up with a viable plan isn't a good idea, as it would hurt those people and cause hardship to many Americans. "STOP LISTENING TO CNN!!!! THE CBO SCORE IS JUST MADE UP LIES. HILLARY HAD E-MAILS! MAGA!!!"
I'm concerned about global climate change, and we should probably consider the possibility that we may be causing this and it could cause major upheaval in the food supply, as well as areas where people won't be able to live in the future. "FAKE!!! DON'T TRUST THE SCIENTISTS, THEY ARE JUST LIBERAL SHILLS PAID BY SOROS!!!! ONLY TRUMP KNOWS THE TRUTH!!!"
That is not debate. That is not discourse. There is no way to discuss issues with someone who dismisses all evidence and facts as being 'fake news' or 'Soros-funded shills.' Someone who believes that Sandy Hook and Pizzagate are real but that the Russia investigation and climate change are just crazy globalist conspiracies isn't worth debating with - it's a waste of time.
My husband hasn't talked to his mother in over a month because she's drunk the Trump-Ade and believes every word that comes out of his mouth. She believes FOX that "history isn't taught in schools anymore" - and when my husband, who has been a social studies/history teacher for 10+ years asked her exactly what she thought he's been doing the past decade, she chose to believe the right-wing media over her own son. There's no discourse with people like that, because they don't care to understand or debate anything. He used to call her weekly, but she went from showing interest in his and the grandchildren's lives to someone who just wanted to give him lectures about how great Trump is and how much he's trying to work but "the Democrats are getting in his way." He finally asked if there was anything she wanted to talk about beside Trump and it turns out she doesn't really care to talk with him about anything else. As a certain person would tweet, SAD.
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