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Post by mommaho on Aug 28, 2017 14:00:07 GMT
First of all - take a deep breath. I was where you are now it took until she was about 21 to figure out she wasn't entitled, life is rough out in the real world and she did apologize for being a Bitch.
She was the youngest of our three daughters and I never saw it coming until she was about 17.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 28, 2017 14:00:56 GMT
I went through a short period of this when my eldest was a tween. What I told him was that, as a parent, I owe him four basic things: food on his plate, a roof over his head, clothes on his back, and, of course, love. Other than that, I owe him nothing; everything else is window dressing, completely subject to his behaviour and could be taken away from him at the drop of a hat.
A few days of him testing limits and me not doing anything for him other than cooking the family meals, and he got his shit together.
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garcia5050
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Post by garcia5050 on Aug 28, 2017 14:03:02 GMT
I completely agree with this! I agree w/that part too. I think it does start at toddlerhood. As soon as they're able to start connecting responses to actions. I see a lot of people (A LOT) encouraging bad behavior, not just parents. Ads, shows, other people who think it's "cute", etc. But it doesn't mean it can't be repaired. It likely can, w/work and possibly objective-party counseling. But w/a heart that wants a better relationship, there is much hope that one can be created. I agree with all of the above, but if not nipped in the bud when they are 2, 3, how can it start all of a sudden at the teen years? I see many disrespectful teenagers, and I wonder how it can get better at such a late age? I feel like some parents missed good opportunities for discipline early on, and it makes the work so much harder when the kids are older.
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basketdiva
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Post by basketdiva on Aug 28, 2017 14:09:00 GMT
Telling her I need the dirty laundry often results in a FU
She's old enough to do her own laundry. No clothes to wear- not your problem.
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tduby1
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Post by tduby1 on Aug 28, 2017 14:09:43 GMT
He now has a car, and we use Life360 so we know when he leaves the house and arrives/leaves school. It's our condition for his driving. He accepts it. Is this much different than "Find my Friends", which our family uses? (Our teens track us more than we track them- nothing like sneaking out for a date night only to get a call just as you are sitting down to eat, with the kid's orders from home, lol).
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 28, 2017 14:12:06 GMT
In terms of disrespect, a phrase that I use with my boys and often with my choir kids is "Who are you talking to?"
I think that, very often, the lines in relationships are blurred and kids start seeing you as a peer rather than an authority figure, that you are part of their cohort. This is normal, they're comfortable with you, you joke with them. 'Who are you talking to?' is just a little reminder that you are an adult and they need to speak to you with a respect they may not show their friends.
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LeaP
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Post by LeaP on Aug 28, 2017 14:32:34 GMT
{{{hugs}}} I have a 16 year old too and she was absolutely insufferable last spring...as in almost repellent. My solution was to allow her to visit a friend in Canada and then sign her up for a 3 1/2 week course in Montreal. She was away for a total of 5 weeks and came back a much saner more pleasant person.
When we lived in Canada she had two very expensive months with overages. The first time we were nice and paid it. The second time we took away her data for three months. The third time we caught it early switched her to the super cheap unlimited data plan with the worst carrier.
Could you send her somewhere for your summer break? Check out places like Greenheart travel where they have to actually work and live with local people.
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peppermintpatty
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Post by peppermintpatty on Aug 28, 2017 14:41:21 GMT
He now has a car, and we use Life360 so we know when he leaves the house and arrives/leaves school. It's our condition for his driving. He accepts it. Is this much different than "Find my Friends", which our family uses? (Our teens track us more than we track them- nothing like sneaking out for a date night only to get a call just as you are sitting down to eat, with the kid's orders from home, lol). Same thing
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Post by Zee on Aug 28, 2017 14:53:32 GMT
My DD was mental until she got started on BCP for hormonal issues. Suddenly she became human.
DS was a total dick from about the ages of 15 to 17.
But neither of them ever told me to fuck off...that would have been a ninja battle to the death between us. I made it pretty clear early on that I'd backhand any comment like that, ever. "We'll call the police if you ever do that!" they protested one day while we were having this very discussion. Go ahead and enjoy foster care, said I. Silence. Hehe
But obviously you're well beyond that point. She sounds fiercely independent as ready to live her life, like I was, but not quite old enough yet to actually do it alone and it's so maddening for her. I don't know if you can sit down and just discuss this angle with her and ask her to please consider family or individual counseling, because you love and respect her (she wants to know this, even though she's not giving it to you) and want to learn how to work together. You admire her intelligence, her strong work ethic, her bravery and especially her independence. You want her to have all the skills she'll need to live happily and you need some skills to help her too. That approach did help a lot with my son.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 28, 2017 14:55:22 GMT
Further. Guess I can't stop talking today. When our youngest was giving us so much grief (and I mean it, it was verging on murder on my end) we cracked down hard. However, cracking down is one thing, rebuilding the relationship is another. I loved my son. He was being difficult because he needed something - it was up to me to figure out what. His senior year, even though we were battling over lots of things and holding the line on expected behavior, I found several ways to connect with him so that we were on the same side - if you know what I mean. I booked us golf lessons - we both learned a new skill, and we had a common goal that we worked hard for. Additionally, we both chose an agency to volunteer with, one his choice, and one mine, and we went twice a month to each - together. I found ways and ways and ways for us to connect in a positive way to somewhat counteract the negative interactions we were having to correct his behavior. Was it work? Yup. Was it uncomfortable? Also yes. Did it take a lot of my time and emotional energy? Again, yes. But. I'm the grown up. My job is to send a child into the world with compassion, care, and ability. Not an entitled disrespectful ass. Bolded above was what I was going to suggest too. Maybe it's time for her to quit her paid job and volunteer somewhere with the less fortunate instead to give her an idea of exactly how bad things could be, and something of an appreciation for the fact that they're not. My siblings and I were raised by fairly strict parents. I watched my siblings screw up and saw what kinds of consequences were meted out, and thankfully I was smart enough to learn from their mistakes so I didn't make them too. I was one of the younger ones, so I also watched how they raised their kids once they had them and learned from those mistakes as well. One of my sisters had kids exactly like your DD, and a lot of the disrespect for their mom stemmed from their dad's blatant disrespect of her. Before we had our kid, DH and I talked a lot about that because we saw how badly it played out in their family when both parents aren't on the same team so to speak. I don't know if that's the situation for you, but at our house I would definitely shut that right down the second it reared its ugly head and my DH would be right there behind me backing it up (or vice versa). Disrespect gets you nowhere in this house. Family counseling would be worth a shot IMO. Your description of your DD matches about 90% of the kids I attended private elementary school with, so I'd be willing to bet that she's doing exactly what her entitled friends do. Kids aren't born that way, they learn it somewhere. I hated every second in that school because I didn't like being around people like that. My guess is that most of the kids your DD goes to school with now in the public school don't have $200 handbags and that's probably a good thing so she can get a much needed dose of reality to bring her expectations back down to earth. I always tell my kid this: "You get more of what you want when I get more of what I want. Remember that." And then follow through with it. When she does what is expected of her, she get more of what she wants which is the fun stuff, nice experiences, cute clothes, screen time (whatever their currency is). When she doesn't do what is expected, all the nice things go away until she follows through with what we've asked. You do little, you get little. You do a lot, you get a lot. Pretty much how the real world works in general. Good luck to you and ((hugs))! Parenting is so tough!
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Post by mcscrapper on Aug 28, 2017 15:03:58 GMT
I don't have any advice but I can offer you hugs and wine.
I have a senior dd myself but she lives with her dad just up the same street where I live. In years past, she's been what I'd also call and asshole to me. I think it was a combination of her circle of friends and being a teen. She also had a lot of pent up anger towards me and probably her father too if she really sat down and studied her actions.
Anyway, she has outgrown a lot of these issues but it was just time.
A friend of mine had a very oppositional son who was much like you described. When it was time for him to go to college they gave him some rules and expectations which they thought were pretty standard for a boy going off to school. Of course, he hung himself and had to return home. His parents then gave him another 6 months at home to figure out a plan to move out. At this point, they were pretty much done with his antics and bullsh!t. He moved out and seems to be doing better but it was really hard for my friends because they knew they just didn't raise him like that. I'm sure you are probably feeling the same.
Good luck and don't be too hard on yourself. She may have to make her own mistakes to figure life out.
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Aug 28, 2017 15:20:37 GMT
OP, you have my best thoughts as this cannot be easy. Putting on flameproof panties as I post: I am not a parent, but I hope you can sort this out for both your own happiness and the future of your DD.
I was the 3rd child, the smartass, the late baby 11 years after no. 2, the baby they never thought they would have. To make it worse, I was streets ahead of my very loving and traditional Mom when it came to sheer cunning and manipulation. Daddy's girl, the academic prodigy who took him up on the offer he had made to his son and oldest daughter, to no avail, to study further, the opportunity he never had.
I could do very little wrong (to be fair to my teen self, I was a goody goody, too chicken to really do anything but I had the sharpest tongue and the most judgmental attitude possible) but had I EVER used the F word to my mother he would have sorted me out, post haste. Not much use to you as I am not sure how he would have done so.
I hope you and your family/ DD can overcome this difficult phase, that it is just a phase. This is vital, not just for the health of your family relationships, but for the future career of your DD. Time, as the peas have pointed out, helps a lot, but she does not necessarily, in today's world, have all that she needs.
In the same way as teacher peas lament having to take the role of some parents in sorting out behavioral/ developmental issues when kids hit school, I have had the dubious pleasure of employing (in my own company and in the Government departments I acted for) hundreds of young people. Maybe thousands. Some with university degrees, some straight from school. It was not my problem (or the role of the HR department of my client) to sort out F-bomb dropping youths who abuse my or my clients' data plans (a common example, regrettably!) They just get fired. Messy offices? Treating other departments' reasonable requests as treating them as "the help"- welcome to unemployment, even in a country where workers' rights are paramount.
This might not be helpful, it might be just the reverse, but it might stiffen your resolve as you seek to find your DD's currency and push on to tough these years out. Peace.
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Post by Really Red on Aug 28, 2017 15:29:11 GMT
Further. Guess I can't stop talking today. When our youngest was giving us so much grief (and I mean it, it was verging on murder on my end) we cracked down hard. However, cracking down is one thing, rebuilding the relationship is another. I loved my son. He was being difficult because he needed something - it was up to me to figure out what. His senior year, even though we were battling over lots of things and holding the line on expected behavior, I found several ways to connect with him so that we were on the same side - if you know what I mean. I booked us golf lessons - we both learned a new skill, and we had a common goal that we worked hard for. Additionally, we both chose an agency to volunteer with, one his choice, and one mine, and we went twice a month to each - together. I found ways and ways and ways for us to connect in a positive way to somewhat counteract the negative interactions we were having to correct his behavior. Was it work? Yup. Was it uncomfortable? Also yes. Did it take a lot of my time and emotional energy? Again, yes. But. I'm the grown up. My job is to send a child into the world with compassion, care, and ability. Not an entitled disrespectful ass. I love love LOVE this. We all (me, included) think it should be as easy as it was when they were little. Tough, but they know you love them and they give you back love. But it is tough, tough work. kibblesandbits I just love what you did. Finding a common ground that has nothing to do with the problems/arguments you're having. Just LOVE it!
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 28, 2017 15:30:58 GMT
how will/would you handle it/ I did handle it - I've had 4 kids, the youngest gave us a run for our money. The day he pushed the envelope and dropped the f-you bomb was the day that I took everything he had, including the doors on his room, the keys to his car, and the phone. He lost it all. Respect in our home is the key to the golden gate - and he wasn't showing respect. Not sure what he was trying to prove, but he found out fast that kind of behavior would NOT be tolerated. Scorched earth policy at my house.
so, every teen that treats people like shit - only do it because they are allowed to? Yes. Just like racism, disrespectful behavior isn't inherited, it's learned. Disrespect towards parents begins early, earlier than you even like to think. That young child that is allowed to whack their mother or dad on the leg or arm or face to get their attention? Disrespect. The toddler who interrupts an adult conversation and gets away with it? Disrespect. Gotta get on this stuff early. Parenting isn't easy, or fun, or a guarantee that you're going to be friends. Too many parents - FAR too many parents - let kids get away with disrespect just because "they're young" "they're teens" they're . . . whatever. Nope. They're disrespectful, and you're allowing it.
FYI - not directed at the OP. Just to be clear.
gina My good friend did this. It worked the opposite for her. He left at 16. Some kids will respond better than others. I don't have any great advice. My oldest had a tough time for about a year. Thankfully he got through it.
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 28, 2017 15:32:53 GMT
Telling her I need the dirty laundry often results in a FUShe's old enough to do her own laundry. No clothes to wear- not your problem. Mine started doing their own at 7. I heartily agree with giving kids responsibility at a young age. I think most of them feel more confident when they have responsibilities that their friends don't have.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 28, 2017 16:00:08 GMT
My DD was mental until she got started on BCP for hormonal issues. Suddenly she became human. I was going to say this, if someone else didn't. I had such HUGE issues with hormones and PMS when I was a teenager, I would turn into a different person. A lot of the time, I didn't even understand WHY I was being such a bitch, honestly... the hormones were a really huge issue, though.
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Post by Zee on Aug 28, 2017 16:06:29 GMT
Another thing that many here are not considering is that what works for one kid will not necessarily work for a very independent determined kid with no real "currency".
Always the hardasses show up and start taking about taking off doors, etc but I can guarantee that would have only made my son worse. Probably would have worked fine on DD. You have to consider the individual.
Anyway, they're both a real pleasure now at ages 23 & 19. So don't give up.
But definitely stop doing her laundry, that's insane.
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Post by gar on Aug 28, 2017 16:14:45 GMT
Another thing that many here are not considering is that what works for one kid will not necessarily work for a very independent determined kid with no real "currency". Always the hardasses show up and start taking about taking off doors, etc but I can guarantee that would have only made my son worse. Probably would have worked fine on DD. You have to consider the individual. Anyway, they're both a real pleasure now at ages 23 & 19. So don't give up. But definitely stop doing her laundry, that's insane. Completely agree. That sort of reaction/action would have broken one of my DDs as it would have been like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I'm sure it's justified and works in some cases but not necessarily all or even most.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Aug 28, 2017 16:30:18 GMT
I wish there was one piece of advice that worked for every child. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I have one son and we had challenges but disrespect was never one of them. Maybe twice he smarted off in his teen years. My only response both times was that i would not be spoken to that way in my own home. He could find somewhere else to live if that was how he thought he could treat his parents. That's all it took. I do believe that having both parents in the home and both of us being partners to each other helped. There was never any using the other parent manipulation. I just can't get beyond a child telling their parent to fuck off. That doesn't compute for me.
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Bridget in MD
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Jun 25, 2014 20:40:00 GMT
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Post by Bridget in MD on Aug 28, 2017 16:30:59 GMT
Further. Guess I can't stop talking today. When our youngest was giving us so much grief (and I mean it, it was verging on murder on my end) we cracked down hard. However, cracking down is one thing, rebuilding the relationship is another. I loved my son. He was being difficult because he needed something - it was up to me to figure out what. His senior year, even though we were battling over lots of things and holding the line on expected behavior, I found several ways to connect with him so that we were on the same side - if you know what I mean. I booked us golf lessons - we both learned a new skill, and we had a common goal that we worked hard for. Additionally, we both chose an agency to volunteer with, one his choice, and one mine, and we went twice a month to each - together. I found ways and ways and ways for us to connect in a positive way to somewhat counteract the negative interactions we were having to correct his behavior. Was it work? Yup. Was it uncomfortable? Also yes. Did it take a lot of my time and emotional energy? Again, yes. But. I'm the grown up. My job is to send a child into the world with compassion, care, and ability. Not an entitled disrespectful ass. I love love LOVE this. We all (me, included) think it should be as easy as it was when they were little. Tough, but they know you love them and they give you back love. But it is tough, tough work. kibblesandbits I just love what you did. Finding a common ground that has nothing to do with the problems/arguments you're having. Just LOVE it! I agree, this is just fantastic!!!!
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Post by darkangel090260 on Aug 28, 2017 16:49:28 GMT
Little girl would lose all freedom, her days would be school home. No outing with friends ect. She would have her lazy butt up first thing every weekend working at a homeless shelter or soup kitchen. Untill she could learn respect and how good she had it. It might to take all the nice thing out of her room.7 outfit, bed and basic sheet blanket.
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PrettyInPeank
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Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Aug 28, 2017 16:57:14 GMT
How do you deal with a child that you have to love because you are the parent but really don't like the majority of the time? First, make sure that they will never have access to your social networks. I don't have teens (yet), but I often peek into these threads to see what I'm in for and to gain insight. But this comment has me curious. What do you mean? Like make sure you're not FB friends? Or make sure tgey can't log into your accounts? And most importantly, why is this important?
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 28, 2017 17:19:10 GMT
First, make sure that they will never have access to your social networks. I don't have teens (yet), but I often peek into these threads to see what I'm in for and to gain insight. But this comment has me curious. What do you mean? Like make sure you're not FB friends? Or make sure tgey can't log into your accounts? And most importantly, why is this important? Imagine you are a teenage girl, going through the angsts and travails of hormonal puberty and you read about yourself on a public message board. And how your mother doesn't like you. Don't get me wrong here. Sometimes, I think it can be very helpful to correct a child and tell them that you do not like their behavior, or even, possibly, that you do not like someone when they engage in such terrible behavior no matter how much you still love them. But, I believe in doing that one-on-one with the child. Private conversations are different. You can be freer with what you say in private than you should be in public. This seems to me to be a private conversation occurring in public. And because it is in public, the chances of this teen girl reading or hearing about it go up significantly and the problems between mother/parents and this teen girl could become dramatically worse.
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PrettyInPeank
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Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Aug 28, 2017 17:22:54 GMT
Gotcha.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 28, 2017 17:35:13 GMT
I am so sorry you and your family are in this situation. I encourage you to try the tough love others have mentioned. Forget cleaning the room. Just shut the door and ignore it, unless a stench comes out. Laundry: Tell her she can now do her own laundry. She is old enough, and she doesn't like your terms. Cell phone: minimum flip phone, not smart phone for her. I'd also do some family counseling. I remember a woman about 15 years older than I am saying "There should be a place to send kids at age 13 and then go pick them up at age 21." --that is about true. thats why kids in the Middle Ages were either apprenticed at 12 or rich kids were 'fostered' out to other rich families. Lol I agree with the previous poster that said they get nothing while being disrespectful and yes it is also work rebuilding the relationship but it's worth it. First crack down in the disrespect Second find ways to connect. Each kid is different and you'll connect with each in different ways. I connect with my DS by talking computers or cars, by asking for help ( he lives to help ) or by going to random places he wants to go to. If DH stays out of it DS is very respectful verbally we are working on the fact that he leaves his stuff all over assuming I'll deal with it I connect with DD by going on adventures with her ( she picks I remain open to anything ) over our art, or just having lunch orbletting ger know I care. OP good luck with your DD the teen years aren't very pleasant
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 28, 2017 17:59:52 GMT
Further. Guess I can't stop talking today. When our youngest was giving us so much grief (and I mean it, it was verging on murder on my end) we cracked down hard. However, cracking down is one thing, rebuilding the relationship is another. I loved my son. He was being difficult because he needed something - it was up to me to figure out what. His senior year, even though we were battling over lots of things and holding the line on expected behavior, I found several ways to connect with him so that we were on the same side - if you know what I mean. I booked us golf lessons - we both learned a new skill, and we had a common goal that we worked hard for. Additionally, we both chose an agency to volunteer with, one his choice, and one mine, and we went twice a month to each - together. I found ways and ways and ways for us to connect in a positive way to somewhat counteract the negative interactions we were having to correct his behavior. Was it work? Yup. Was it uncomfortable? Also yes. Did it take a lot of my time and emotional energy? Again, yes. But. I'm the grown up. My job is to send a child into the world with compassion, care, and ability. Not an entitled disrespectful ass.
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Post by jennrs on Aug 28, 2017 18:12:00 GMT
I'm sorry you are dealing with this and hear your frustration, anger and sadness. It's awful to be unhappy and have such conflict in your own home.
I don't have much to add to the advice you have already gotten but I would definitely punish her where it hurts which would be her phone, money, social life. If she doesn't have serious consequences, why would she ever quit with the disrespect? She gets to be moody and lash out at every one around her and real life doesn't work that way when you get out in the world.
It's not going to be easy but you deserve respect in your home, especially from your children. Period.
Big hugs and good luck! Come back and update us with what rules and consequences you put in place and how she reacts, because I know you are getting some good ideas here. You deserve to be treated better.
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 28, 2017 18:22:49 GMT
Another thing that many here are not considering is that what works for one kid will not necessarily work for a very independent determined kid with no real "currency". Always the hardasses show up and start taking about taking off doors, etc but I can guarantee that would have only made my son worse. Probably would have worked fine on DD. You have to consider the individual. Anyway, they're both a real pleasure now at ages 23 & 19. So don't give up. But definitely stop doing her laundry, that's insane. But it wasn't just about being a hardass and taking off doors. The most important part was the spending time together and working out the problems. The golf and volunteering, teaching and really listening to the kid, but first you have to get their attention. It's a two pronged approach.
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Post by calgaryscrapper on Aug 28, 2017 18:27:17 GMT
If you haven't tried counselling perhaps try family counselling or counselling for you. When I was a teenager I took over the laundry with a wringer washing machine and clothesline. My younger Brother by a couple of years gave me some kind of grief over doing his laundry. I told him from then on he was going to do his own laundry and he did.
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Post by luvmygirls on Aug 28, 2017 18:48:11 GMT
I have not read the other responses, so this may be a repeat. I have 3 teenagers who have had their fair shared of issues. Yes we are strict parents who expect them to follow the rules and for the most part they have. We track their phones everywhere they go with Life 360 and Find my Friend. Life 360 also tells me how fast they are driving. I also have cameras on the inside and outside of my house. If they don't obey they lose their phone and iPad. If it continues, their bedroom door comes off. I'm afraid your DD won't learn until everything is taken away and she truly knows what it feels like to have nothing. Big hugs to you. Parenting a teenager is tough.
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