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Post by heartcat on Aug 30, 2014 9:28:14 GMT
I heard something at work that is one of the most bizarre things I have ever heard of IRL, if not the most bizarre, and it seems very surreal and so hard to comprehend.
A co-worker's 4 year old grandson was having a sleepover at a 3 year old friend's house. (I do not know whether this was a friend from daycare, or a family friend, or if the other family was babysitting, etc.). Sometime during the night, while the 4 year old was sleeping, apparently the 3 year old got up and attacked him. Seemingly there was no cause, they were not having a fight or anything.
There was some kind of heavy toy that the 3 year proceeded to beat the other boy with. Before anyone woke and intervened he had caused a gash in the other child's head that needed stitches, severely bruised one side of his face, and broken his right arm.
My first thought was that there was something hinky going on, that an adult had done it, that no 3 year old would be capable of that sort of thing, but apparently the police investigation determined that it was the other child, and it came out that that child has at least one incident of prior violence. (I do not know the circumstances or the severity of the other incident, but my understanding is that it was not as severe).
I feel so awful for the 4 year old. At that age children are so trusting, and usually believe that no one would ever hurt them, especially someone they know. I cannot imagine his terror and pain and the emotional shock he had to deal with.
And I cannot imagine what would precipitate an attack of such violence by a child that young. I wondered if he suffers from night terrors or nightmares and was 'sleepwalking' or something. I wonder if he is being abused or molested and is carrying anger and fear that he misdirects. I wonder if there is just something 'off' with him psychologically that is already manifesting. I wonder if there is some kind of medical issue, such as a brain tumour or something, that might cause bizarre behaviour.
I know young children can act up when then get frustrated, and hit one another, or bite, etc. But this is clearly abnormal and obviously had some real fource behind it and some sustained anger. I know that most children that age don't have the understanding to form what we would consider criminal intent or to understand the full ramifications of something like this.
This keeps coming to the forefront of my thoughts, and is flabbergasting and concerning. I hope the child who was attacked doesn't have lingering emotional or psychological effects from this (by the sounds of things he is doing okay at this point). And I hope the 3 year old gets a full medical check up and some kind of professional intervention. As a parent, I would be so terrified if my young child did something like this.
Has anyone ever heard of this kind of (seemingly unprovoked) violent behaviour from a child so young?
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Post by DinCA on Aug 30, 2014 10:42:56 GMT
I can't remember hearing about any unprovoked violent behavior from a child that young. At that age you might see a child lash out if a playmate took a toy or something like that, but that is usually face-to-face behavior, not attacking after the other child is asleep. Maybe they had a problem earlier in the day and he has a very long memory but that would be very unusual. I've also heard of an older sibling wanting to hurt a new baby or younger sibling but nothing quite like this. I'd be very concerned if I was his parent and would be seeking some professional help.
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teddyw
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Post by teddyw on Aug 30, 2014 11:36:42 GMT
I know I've seen shows like 20/20 feature kids who are a little older than that who attack their families. Never that young though. Maybe he has some undiagnosed mental illness.
My thought is why are 3 & 4 year olds having sleep overs?
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MDscrapaholic
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Aug 30, 2014 11:40:30 GMT
I have never heard of this violent behavior from a three year old. Is he exposed to violent shows on TV? Is there violence in the family that he sees?
I know that some people are just plain evil but this is awful young for that to be showing. Prayers for both families, they will have to deal with this for a long time.
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Post by grate on Aug 30, 2014 11:44:18 GMT
oh my goodness! I am not going to be judgemental as I would like about the age of the kids and a sleepover or about parents knowing their child has violent tendencies and allowing one  What a horrible thing to happen to a young child |
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Post by ChicagoKTS on Aug 30, 2014 11:53:16 GMT
We had a family acquaintance who had a very troubled child who would show bouts of violence. I don't know how young he was when it started. When he was about six years old, his mom woke-up with him standing over her with a butcher knife. Fortunately he didn't use it but obviously the mom had a few very tense moments talking him "down". There were two younger kids in the family and she was terrified he had done something to them. We lost touch with family around that time so I am not sure what happened with the child or family. This is the only instance I have heard of with a child showing extreme, violent behavior. This was a number of years ago before the advent of violent games, shows, etc.
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PrettyInPeank
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Aug 30, 2014 11:54:33 GMT
My thought is why are 3 & 4 year olds having sleep overs? That was my first thought, as well. Though, I once offered to watch a friend's son (my son's playmate) overnight once so they could go out of town for a wedding for a night. It was more childcare than a sleepover. It could have been something like that. How frightening for all involved: the boy who was attacked, the attacker, the parents not knowing why their son did that, etc. |
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Post by Really Red on Aug 30, 2014 11:59:41 GMT
I think I'd need to know a lot more about this, if I were the parents. Did they send their 4yo to sleep at a 3yo's house? I'm pretty sure at least one of my kids did that, probably because I was going to be out late at night or something. But the parents of the 3yo? Was the other incident a one-off? If there were issues, then the parents of the 3yo are seriously at fault. But poor 3yo. To have that kind of anger at 3yo! My goodness. That is a story I would normally only hear on 20/20!
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johnnysmom
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Post by johnnysmom on Aug 30, 2014 12:03:07 GMT
Holy crap. The only thing I can come up with is the child was sleep walking. Maybe there was a minor altercation earlier in the day (like an argument over a toy) and the kid's subconscious remembered it and acted on it. Regardless how terrifying for all involved.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 30, 2014 12:14:33 GMT
How disturbing. I don't think I've ever heard of one that young actually attacking another child while they were sleeping. Any chance this was a sleep walking type episode? I know people have done strange things while sleeping, but never one that young.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 30, 2014 12:35:22 GMT
My thought is why are 3 & 4 year olds having sleep overs? Yep... my first thought too. My second thought...the 4 year old needs to get to a therapist now! Third Thought...it would take a Helluva a lot of convincing that a three year old broke the 4 year olds arm and no adult even heard it??? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 12:37:04 GMT
You may want to google Jani Schofield. She was diagnosed with childhood onset schizophrenia at the age of six after years of violent behavior.
I feel so sorry for both of these families. Certainly no one expects their four year old to be atttacked in his sleep by a friend. And no one expects a three year old to be capable of doing such a thing. But I can't help wonder if both families were ignoring earlier signs of violence from the three year old.
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gsquaredmom
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Post by gsquaredmom on Aug 30, 2014 12:50:08 GMT
I think the child is mentally ill. I think it is likely some form of schizophrenia. Sad.
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Post by Merge on Aug 30, 2014 12:59:43 GMT
That is terrible.
We have a couple of kids in the behavior support class at our school who are very violent and seem to be set off by anything and nothing. And they're very strong. Our entire admin team plus the PE teacher and some others all had to be trained to do safe restraints because it takes two adults to restrain these children - and they are six and seven years old. So yeah, I can imagine them hurting a playmate at three.
It's really very sad.
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mallie
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Post by mallie on Aug 30, 2014 13:17:43 GMT
I remember a pea talking about her son's friend who had been (improperly) diagnosed with ADHD and put on meds and he became violent at a young age. Once he was taken off the meds, the violence went away. So I wonder if medications might be involved?
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gloryjoy
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Post by gloryjoy on Aug 30, 2014 13:28:51 GMT
You may want to google Jani Schofield. She was diagnosed with childhood onset schizophrenia at the age of six after years of violent behavior. This is the first thing I thought of when I read your post.
A very sad situation for everyone involved.
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Post by Pahina722 on Aug 30, 2014 13:29:31 GMT
I think I watch too much crime TV.
Although horrifying, it didn't come across as a WTF situation. I have seen too many programs featuring a psychopathic child who deliberately hurts others or read about real life ones like Jani Schofield mentioned above for this to strike me as unreal. While thankfully such children are very rare, they do exist and apparently there is almost nothing that can be done to help them.
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Aug 30, 2014 13:31:34 GMT
That is terrible. We have a couple of kids in the behavior support class at our school who are very violent and seem to be set off by anything and nothing. And they're very strong. Our entire admin team plus the PE teacher and some others all had to be trained to do safe restraints because it takes two adults to restrain these children - and they are six and seven years old. So yeah, I can imagine them hurting a playmate at three. It's really very sad. We had a neighbor who had a daughter like this. She was eight when we first met them, but had a history of violence since she was very young. Our first taste of it was when she went after another neighbor with a knife. I also had to restrain her once when my daughter was babysitting her and her siblings, and she was so strong. I was exhausted afterwards. She was eventually hospitalized for several months while they worked out a diagnosis and a treatment plan. The last I heard they still didn't have anything definite for a diagnosis, as there was just so much going on with her. |
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Post by dulcemama on Aug 30, 2014 13:40:59 GMT
You may want to google Jani Schofield. She was diagnosed with childhood onset schizophrenia at the age of six after years of violent behavior. I feel so sorry for both of these families. Certainly no one expects their four year old to be atttacked in his sleep by a friend. And no one expects a three year old to be capable of doing such a thing. But I can't help wonder if both families were ignoring earlier signs of violence from the three year old. Yes, this brought Jani Schofield to mind for me too. Severe mental illness is pretty unusual in kids this young but it does happen. |
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Post by peasapie on Aug 30, 2014 13:49:09 GMT
I have worked with some children who have mental disorders that cause them to be violent from a very early age. This little boy sounds like someone in that category. While mom and dad might already have had a clue about this, they surely never expected the little boy to do what he did. I'm guessing this episode has changed everyone's lives forever. |
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msliz
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Post by msliz on Aug 30, 2014 14:02:29 GMT
It sounds more like night terrors to me. In older children and adults, they can become violent.
My guess is that too much excitement during the day (having the friend over to play) contributed to the episode.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 14:13:48 GMT
I can't imagine how terrifying this must be for the parents. And how helpless they must feel. I hope they're able to get this child the help he needs.
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Aug 30, 2014 14:25:26 GMT
My thought is why are 3 & 4 year olds having sleep overs? Mine too. |
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Post by Skellinton on Aug 30, 2014 14:40:15 GMT
I can't imagine how terrifying this must be for the parents. And how helpless they must feel. I hope they're able to get this child the help he needs. I hope they are getting the child the help he needs as well. What a sad situation for everyone involved. |
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melissa
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Post by melissa on Aug 30, 2014 14:58:49 GMT
There is something horrendously wrong here. I agree. My first guess is that the year old will turn out to have a form of severe mental illness.
I don't question the sleepover as I would assume it was more of a babysitting/childcare type sleepover than the sort of thing older children do.
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Post by jojam on Aug 30, 2014 15:39:00 GMT
There is something horrendously wrong here. I agree. My first guess is that the year old will turn out to have a form of severe mental illness. I don't question the sleepover as I would assume it was more of a babysitting/childcare type sleepover than the sort of thing older children do. Exactly what I was thinking. My mom did daycare for a few families when I was in pre-school. One of the families were good friends of ours. I often went home with them on a Friday night to sleep over--I was four, their son was the same age, and they had a daughter who was two. I loved spending time with their family and at their home--they lived on a farm with horses! |
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melissa
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Post by melissa on Aug 30, 2014 16:51:13 GMT
Or even just friends. I have a few friends who would do this sort of thing frequently. One couple would go out and the other would watch their child overnight.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 30, 2014 17:04:29 GMT
That is terrible. We have a couple of kids in the behavior support class at our school who are very violent and seem to be set off by anything and nothing. And they're very strong. Our entire admin team plus the PE teacher and some others all had to be trained to do safe restraints because it takes two adults to restrain these children - and they are six and seven years old. So yeah, I can imagine them hurting a playmate at three. It's really very sad. Our entire staff at my last program/school had to be trained in both trying to talk a student down and in restraint as we had a program of students with severe behavior issues. Restraining a child is hard. It is physically and mentally exhausting. They are screaming at you and your heart tugs, but you know that it is for the safety of the students and your safety that you have gone hands on a child. Young children, our first graders, were often harder than the older students and it is amazing how strong they are. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 30, 2014 17:11:56 GMT
Freecharlie, we really should all be trained. I am terrified that one of them will become violent in my classroom with 28 other kids in the room. There's always an aide there with them, but if she's not strong enough to hold them it could be an awful few minutes before someone else gets there. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to be trained and then have to use the training - the BSC teacher and the special ed. chair have both had injuries that required a doctor's visit from restraining primary-aged kids. They've been kicked, bitten and head-butted, and one child stabbed the teacher with a spork at lunch.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 30, 2014 17:18:54 GMT
Merge, if you have one of those students in your class on a regular basis, I would ask for the training. You may only have to grab on for enough time to get the other students out, but it could keep them from being hurt. Do your other students know how to room clear quickly?
Last year, I had 6-8 injuries requiring a visit to the workman's comp doctor and countless more that I had to file but didn't need to be seen (if they break the skin or we bruise, we must file). One boy, a 4th grader, injured my back so badly that I was made to stay home for three days and then was not supposed to restrain for at least two weeks. Luckily it was christmas break time almost, so it was really only a week. He hit me in the back with a chair and then I was restraining as he was twisting and trying to kick my head. But he was trying to attack another student who, with behavior problems himself, was not room clearing like he should. As soon as another adult got there, they took over and once the third adult was present they switch from one person to a two person hold.
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What a horrible thing to happen to a young child
