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Post by 16joy on Sept 19, 2017 12:12:28 GMT
Does Nancy Pelosi travel with security? If not, she should have security around her at the next press conference. I just watched her a portion of her press conference and a number of people got very close to her while shouting. Her attempts to calm the crowd failed.
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 20:13:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 12:56:02 GMT
I was actually scared for her, and I felt bad for her. That got ugly.
I expect this to pick up and get worse.
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Post by hop2 on Sept 19, 2017 13:01:19 GMT
I'm not a fan of hers but yes, she should have some security in public settings like that. Too many crazies out there.
I'm more the hey I'll buy you a cup of coffee so I can tell you where I disagree with you over coffee kind of not a fan of hers. ( if that makes sense ) But there are people who think she's the spawn of the devil and are crazy enough to do something about it.
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Post by 16joy on Sept 19, 2017 13:13:11 GMT
Hop2. These were people who probably supported her but turned against her for meeting with Donald Trump. That's my impression from what they were shouting. she appeared to be surrounded. Hopefully that was just the camera angle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 13:27:16 GMT
Oh, sure. They're pissed at her/Schumer for meeting with Trump. But, they also said this:
“Democrats created an out-of-control deportation machine and handed it over to Trump,” they said. “We demand accountability. Democrats are not the resistance of Trump. We are.”
It seems like a lot of people want to blame Trump, who has been in office for only 10 months, while ignoring numerous past administrations and lawmakers for continually playing kick the can on immigration reform. Well, now the Dreamers aren't glossing over Obama and the Democrats.
And this issue isn't only about those 800,000 dreamers; it's about the 11 million undocumented immigrants. So now what happens?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 19, 2017 13:39:59 GMT
As minority leader, I do believe she has security provided by the secret service. After the baseball game shooting a few years ago there was a discussion about which members receive secret service protection.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 19, 2017 14:34:30 GMT
As minority leader, I do believe she has security provided by the secret service. After the baseball game shooting a few years ago there was a discussion about which members receive secret service protection. Yes, the Congressional leaders do have secret service protection. (Psst: the baseball game was only a few months ago........Although it does seem it was looooooooooooooong ago)
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 20:13:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 15:25:32 GMT
Oh, sure. They're pissed at her/Schumer for meeting with Trump. But, they also said this: “Democrats created an out-of-control deportation machine and handed it over to Trump,” they said. “We demand accountability. Democrats are not the resistance of Trump. We are.” It seems like a lot of people want to blame Trump, who has been in office for only 10 months, while ignoring numerous past administrations and lawmakers for continually playing kick the can on immigration reform. Well, now the Dreamers aren't glossing over Obama and the Democrats. And this issue isn't only about those 800,000 dreamers; it's about the 11 million undocumented immigrants. So now what happens? That "out-of-control deportion machine was set up to keep undocumented folks in this country until another immigration bill could pass. President Obama has deported more undocumented folks then any other president. Who he deported were criminals. And when those down south thought it was a good idea to send their kids alone across alone thinking they could join the kids President Obama said the kids would be deported to stop the kids from coming on a dangerous trip. From what I pieced together when ICE found undocumented folks if they were not criminals and had jobs etc they only needed to check in with ICE on a regular basis as opposed to being deported. Its this information that ICE is using to find undocumented folks to deport now . A day or two after trump took office he changed the head of ICE to a "by the book guy". So yet again trump lied when he said he was going after the criminals first. He's going after them all. Another note. A new immigration reform bill actually passed in the Senate during President Obama's time but the Republican controlled House never brought the bill to the floor for a vote. What those dreamers did yesterday was stupid on their part. The only reason they have somewhat legel status is because of a Democratic President. The only reason trump just didn't outright end DACA is because he wants something in return and to get it he needs Democrats. It was wrong of trump to use DACA as a bargaining chip and the Democrats have to find a way to protect those kids and bargain with trump. Because trump has veto power and if he doesn't get what he wants he is petty enough to veto a bill and I'm not sure there would be enough votes to overturn his veto.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 19, 2017 15:44:51 GMT
As minority leader, I do believe she has security provided by the secret service. After the baseball game shooting a few years ago there was a discussion about which members receive secret service protection. Yes, the Congressional leaders do have secret service protection. (Psst: the baseball game was only a few months ago........Although it does seem it was looooooooooooooong ago) Really? I guess it's been a long few months.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:47:53 GMT
Oh, sure. They're pissed at her/Schumer for meeting with Trump. But, they also said this: “Democrats created an out-of-control deportation machine and handed it over to Trump,” they said. “We demand accountability. Democrats are not the resistance of Trump. We are.” It seems like a lot of people want to blame Trump, who has been in office for only 10 months, while ignoring numerous past administrations and lawmakers for continually playing kick the can on immigration reform. Well, now the Dreamers aren't glossing over Obama and the Democrats. And this issue isn't only about those 800,000 dreamers; it's about the 11 million undocumented immigrants. So now what happens? That "out-of-control deportion machine was set up to keep undocumented folks in this country until another immigration bill could pass.
President Obama has deported more undocumented folks then any other president. Who he deported were criminals. And when those down south thought it was a good idea to send their kids alone across alone thinking they could join the kids President Obama said the kids would be deported to stop the kids from coming on a dangerous trip. From what I pieced together when ICE found undocumented folks if they were not criminals and had jobs etc they only needed to check in with ICE on a regular basis as opposed to being deported. Its this information that ICE is using to find undocumented folks to deport now . A day or two after trump took office he changed the head of ICE to a "by the book guy". So yet again trump lied when he said he was going after the criminals first. He's going after them all. Another note. A new immigration reform bill actually passed in the Senate during President Obama's time but the Republican controlled House never brought the bill to the floor for a vote. What those dreamers did yesterday was stupid on their part. The only reason they have somewhat legel status is because of a Democratic President. The only reason trump just didn't outright end DACA is because he wants something in return and to get it he needs Democrats. It was wrong of trump to use DACA as a bargaining chip and the Democrats have to find a way to protect those kids and bargain with trump. Because trump has veto power and if he doesn't get what he wants he is petty enough to veto a bill and I'm not sure there would be enough votes to overturn his veto. Trump talks out of both sides of his ass, so no disputing your statements about him. I knew the DACA debate and working on a plan to protect them, was going to be more than that. The Dreamers, and Democrats, want to give 11 million a pass. Republicans don't. Two parties having different views is no surprise. Some agreeing with Obama's EO and some not is no surprise. What is a surprise was the Dreamers criticizing the Democrats. They were turning on the party that has fought for them. I thought it was interesting when Pelosi said something along the lines of "you're not helping your cause" when trying to talk to the crowd.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 17:25:12 GMT
Trump talks out of both sides of his ass, so no disputing your statements about him. I knew the DACA debate and working on a plan to protect them, was going to be more than that. The Dreamers, and Democrats, want to give 11 million a pass. Republicans don't. Two parties having different views is no surprise. Some agreeing with Obama's EO and some not is no surprise. What is a surprise was the Dreamers criticizing the Democrats. They were turning on the party that has fought for them. I thought it was interesting when Pelosi said something along the lines of "you're not helping your cause" when trying to talk to the crowd. She is right. I live in the Northern California wine country and for decades I've seen the good and bad of having a large undocumented population. The reality is these folks broke the law coming to this country. However we have given a pass to the other party breaking the law in this mess and that are employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers. In fact they seek them out. Cheap labor. And yes they are breaking the law because knowing hireing undocumented people is subject to a fine per person and jail time up to 6 months. Also we have let this go on way too long to all of sudden gather up 11M people and shove them across the border. Our inaction of fully enforcing the law at this point would cause an economic vacuum if we did. So now we have to decide what to do with people we have let stay illegally in our country for decades. I don't support amnesty. We've been there and done that and we were told it wouldn't happen again. But I do support putting them on the path to citizenship and a guess worker program. But any reform is going to have to hold employers responsible if they hire any undocumented workers. The truth is we wouldn't be in the mess we are today if the employer mandate had b really been enforced instead of just lip service. However I may join the trump crowd if they keep pulling stunts like they did at the press conference and keep making statements like "it's our right to be here". I suspect I may not be alone in this thinking.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Sept 19, 2017 17:48:17 GMT
However I may join the trump crowd if they keep pulling stunts like they did at the press conference and keep making statements like "it's our right to be here". I suspect I may not be alone in this thinking. You aren't alone. The entitlement was so thick it was nauseating. As Americans, we fight against taxation without representation. These entitled illegals call for representation without being taxed. Unbelievable.
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 20:13:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:14:05 GMT
However I may join the trump crowd if they keep pulling stunts like they did at the press conference and keep making statements like "it's our right to be here". I suspect I may not be alone in this thinking. You aren't alone. The entitlement was so thick it was nauseating. As Americans, we fight against taxation without representation. These entitled illegals call for representation without being taxed. Unbelievable. What about the employers who knowingly hired undocumented workers and therefore breaking the law? Do you think they should get a pass. They are largely responsible for this mess.
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 19, 2017 18:30:57 GMT
However I may join the trump crowd if they keep pulling stunts like they did at the press conference and keep making statements like "it's our right to be here". I suspect I may not be alone in this thinking. You aren't alone. The entitlement was so thick it was nauseating. As Americans, we fight against taxation without representation. These entitled illegals call for representation without being taxed. Unbelievable. If you're talking about the DACA "kids" (a lot of them are not kids any more) they *do* pay taxes. Those who are working pay taxes like anyone else who's employed by someone who gives them a paycheck.
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 20:13:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:31:48 GMT
Trump talks out of both sides of his ass, so no disputing your statements about him. I knew the DACA debate and working on a plan to protect them, was going to be more than that. The Dreamers, and Democrats, want to give 11 million a pass. Republicans don't. Two parties having different views is no surprise. Some agreeing with Obama's EO and some not is no surprise. What is a surprise was the Dreamers criticizing the Democrats. They were turning on the party that has fought for them. I thought it was interesting when Pelosi said something along the lines of "you're not helping your cause" when trying to talk to the crowd. She is right. I live in the Northern California wine country and for decades I've seen the good and bad of having a large undocumented population. The reality is these folks broke the law coming to this country. However we have given a pass to the other party breaking the law in this mess and that are employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers. In fact they seek them out. Cheap labor. And yes they are breaking the law because knowing hireing undocumented people is subject to a fine per person and jail time up to 6 months.
Also we have let this go on way too long to all of sudden gather up 11M people and shove them across the border. Our inaction of fully enforcing the law at this point would cause an economic vacuum if we did.
So now we have to decide what to do with people we have let stay illegally in our country for decades. I don't support amnesty. We've been there and done that and we were told it wouldn't happen again. But I do support putting them on the path to citizenship and a guess worker program. But any reform is going to have to hold employers responsible if they hire any undocumented workers. The truth is we wouldn't be in the mess we are today if the employer mandate had b really been enforced instead of just lip service. However I may join the trump crowd if they keep pulling stunts like they did at the press conference and keep making statements like "it's our right to be here". I suspect I may not be alone in this thinking. What I bolded is some of what I'm referring to when I said previous administrations, etc. have played kick the can. There are a lot of moving parts, and a lot of those parts are broken, when it comes to immigration/reform. Now whether Trump used the dreamers as bargaining chips...maybe, probably. I'm not giving him a pass, however these issues have been going on, unfixed, far longer than he's been in office. I'm sympathetic to the dreamers. When it comes to their parents, a bit sympathetic. Eleven million? I don't even know what the answer is or what to say. I thought I read the group yesterday was small, and a certain group. I'll be curious to see if the general message of the dreamers and undocumented immigrants echoes. Because if it does, my sympathy is going to quickly dwindle.
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Post by burningfeather on Sept 19, 2017 18:37:10 GMT
What about the employers who knowingly hired undocumented workers and therefore breaking the law? Do you think they should get a pass. They are largely responsible for this mess. Absolutely not. Just like our immigration laws (which are largely being ignored), we have laws that employers are supposed to adhere to when hiring someone. If they are breaking those laws, then they need to be held accountable too with whatever punishment was set forth when those laws were put into place.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 19, 2017 18:38:35 GMT
Trump talks out of both sides of his ass, so no disputing your statements about him. I knew the DACA debate and working on a plan to protect them, was going to be more than that. The Dreamers, and Democrats, want to give 11 million a pass. Republicans don't. Two parties having different views is no surprise. Some agreeing with Obama's EO and some not is no surprise. What is a surprise was the Dreamers criticizing the Democrats. They were turning on the party that has fought for them. I thought it was interesting when Pelosi said something along the lines of "you're not helping your cause" when trying to talk to the crowd. She is right. I live in the Northern California wine country and for decades I've seen the good and bad of having a large undocumented population. The reality is these folks broke the law coming to this country. However we have given a pass to the other party breaking the law in this mess and that are employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers. In fact they seek them out. Cheap labor. And yes they are breaking the law because knowing hireing undocumented people is subject to a fine per person and jail time up to 6 months. Also we have let this go on way too long to all of sudden gather up 11M people and shove them across the border. Our inaction of fully enforcing the law at this point would cause an economic vacuum if we did. So now we have to decide what to do with people we have let stay illegally in our country for decades. I don't support amnesty. We've been there and done that and we were told it wouldn't happen again. But I do support putting them on the path to citizenship and a guess worker program. But any reform is going to have to hold employers responsible if they hire any undocumented workers. The truth is we wouldn't be in the mess we are today if the employer mandate had b really been enforced instead of just lip service. However I may join the trump crowd if they keep pulling stunts like they did at the press conference and keep making statements like "it's our right to be here". I suspect I may not be alone in this thinking. I completely agree with you. Though I stopped posting my thoughts on immigration because I was lumped in with the racists because I don't support illegal immigration. Funny, me and several of my Mexican relatives do not support illegal immigration, but only on this board have I been swept into the racist group I do not support amnesty but I do support fixing our immigration policies and how we enforce our laws.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 19, 2017 18:38:38 GMT
Am I the only one who sees the irony of chanting "we're not a bargaining chip" to protest tying passage of DACA with enhanced border protection while at the same time chanting "all of us or none of us" to demand DACA be passed along with comprehensive immigration reform that includes protection for all the 11 million undocumented workers in the country. I guess they don't mind being a bargaining chip if it's for what they want.
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MDscrapaholic
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,345
Location: Down by the bay....
Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Sept 19, 2017 18:41:35 GMT
What about the employers who knowingly hired undocumented workers and therefore breaking the law? Do you think they should get a pass. They are largely responsible for this mess. Absolutely not. Just like our immigration laws (which are largely being ignored), we have laws that employers are supposed to adhere to when hiring someone. If they are breaking those laws, then they need to be held accountable too with whatever punishment was set forth when those laws were put into place. Those employers are NOT "largely responsible for this mess." They took advantage of a situation in front of them. Yes, they should be punished, but the responsibility lies with those who broke the law by coming here illegally in the first place.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 19, 2017 18:43:56 GMT
What about the employers who knowingly hired undocumented workers and therefore breaking the law? Do you think they should get a pass. They are largely responsible for this mess. Absolutely not. Just like our immigration laws (which are largely being ignored), we have laws that employers are supposed to adhere to when hiring someone. If they are breaking those laws, then they need to be held accountable too with whatever punishment was set forth when those laws were put into place. I completely agree and it ticks me off they have not been.
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Post by burningfeather on Sept 19, 2017 18:45:26 GMT
Absolutely not. Just like our immigration laws (which are largely being ignored), we have laws that employers are supposed to adhere to when hiring someone. If they are breaking those laws, then they need to be held accountable too with whatever punishment was set forth when those laws were put into place. Those employers are NOT "largely responsible for this mess." They took advantage of a situation in front of them. Yes, they should be punished, but the responsibility lies with those who broke the law by coming here illegally in the first place. Although I'm not the one that said they are largely responsible, they are, in fact, responsible because if our documentation laws were adhered to by all employers, there would not be employment and it would not be so enticing to come to the US. I've always held that those crossing the border, "criminal" or not, have broken the law and should be returned to their country. All of them. But employers who hire them make it way too easy to stay. As I've said many times here, I'm a black and white thinker in most areas and I make no apology for that. There is no gray for me when it comes to breaking the law. If you don't like a law, then work to change it. But you don't just get to arbitrarily break without repercussion just because you don't agree with it.
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 20:13:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:48:39 GMT
Absolutely not. Just like our immigration laws (which are largely being ignored), we have laws that employers are supposed to adhere to when hiring someone. If they are breaking those laws, then they need to be held accountable too with whatever punishment was set forth when those laws were put into place. Those employers are NOT "largely responsible for this mess." They took advantage of a situation in front of them. Yes, they should be punished, but the responsibility lies with those who broke the law by coming here illegally in the first place. The 1986 Immigration Reform Act was clear that employers had to verify the potential worker could legally work in this country. So when the employers knowingly hire undocumented workers they are not taking advantage of the situation they are breaking the law. If there had had been no jobs to entice folks to this country we wouldn't have 11M +/- undocumented folks here.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Sept 19, 2017 18:57:56 GMT
You aren't alone. The entitlement was so thick it was nauseating. As Americans, we fight against taxation without representation. These entitled illegals call for representation without being taxed. Unbelievable. If you're talking about the DACA "kids" (a lot of them are not kids any more) they *do* pay taxes. Those who are working pay taxes like anyone else who's employed by someone who gives them a paycheck. I was thinking about this the other day...forgive my ignorance, but how do they get social security cards? They aren't born here to get one that way, so how do they get them?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 19, 2017 19:25:49 GMT
If you're talking about the DACA "kids" (a lot of them are not kids any more) they *do* pay taxes. Those who are working pay taxes like anyone else who's employed by someone who gives them a paycheck. I was thinking about this the other day...forgive my ignorance, but how do they get social security cards? They aren't born here to get one that way, so how do they get them? A non-citizen can be issued a social security number if they are authorized to work in the US. The whole point of DACA was to issue work permits to them. Qualifications for social security number for non-citizens if you're interested: www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdfBTW many undocumented workers obtain fraudulent documents - there's an entire industry surrounding fake documents. Between fake documents and being hired as an independent contractor (which means the employer doesn't need to obtain I-9 information) much employers skirt the "knowingly hire" provisions.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 19, 2017 19:46:57 GMT
If there had had been no jobs to entice folks to this country we wouldn't have 11M +/- undocumented folks here. if there was a legal way for them to come here to work, we wouldn't have 11M +/- undocumented folks here, either. It's like the chicken / egg thing, in a way. The work programs they DO have, which allows workers to come here but ties them to only one employer, just isn't working. They need to fix it. We obviously have jobs for all (or at least a lot of) the people who are here.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Sept 19, 2017 19:49:32 GMT
You aren't alone. The entitlement was so thick it was nauseating. As Americans, we fight against taxation without representation. These entitled illegals call for representation without being taxed. Unbelievable. What about the employers who knowingly hired undocumented workers and therefore breaking the law? Do you think they should get a pass. They are largely responsible for this mess. Bring down the hammer on the employers as well.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 19, 2017 20:01:16 GMT
What about the employers who knowingly hired undocumented workers and therefore breaking the law? Do you think they should get a pass. They are largely responsible for this mess. Bring down the hammer on the employers as well. Playing devil's advocate though - one of the reasons it's easy for employers to skirt the knowingly hire is pretty strong anti-discrimination employment provisions. One of the unintended consequences of bringing the hammer down on employers could be blackball of immigrants in general for fear they are hiring someone with fraudulent documents. Ideally the verification process would be faster and easier, but I don't have a whole lot of confidence that will happen anytime soon.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Sept 19, 2017 20:03:23 GMT
I was thinking about this the other day...forgive my ignorance, but how do they get social security cards? They aren't born here to get one that way, so how do they get them? A non-citizen can be issued a social security number if they are authorized to work in the US. The whole point of DACA was to issue work permits to them. Qualifications for social security number for non-citizens if you're interested: www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdfBTW many undocumented workers obtain fraudulent documents - there's an entire industry surrounding fake documents. Between fake documents and being hired as an independent contractor (which means the employer doesn't need to obtain I-9 information) much employers skirt the "knowingly hire" provisions. Thanks! I didn't know they could get a SS number.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 19, 2017 20:25:16 GMT
As minority leader, I do believe she has security provided by the secret service. After the baseball game shooting a few years ago there was a discussion about which members receive secret service protection. It seems like a few years ago doesn't it!!! It just happened this June, just 3 months ago.
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MDscrapaholic
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,345
Location: Down by the bay....
Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Sept 19, 2017 20:34:07 GMT
Those employers are NOT "largely responsible for this mess." They took advantage of a situation in front of them. Yes, they should be punished, but the responsibility lies with those who broke the law by coming here illegally in the first place. Although I'm not the one that said they are largely responsible, they are, in fact, responsible because if our documentation laws were adhered to by all employers, there would not be employment and it would not be so enticing to come to the US. I've always held that those crossing the border, "criminal" or not, have broken the law and should be returned to their country. All of them. But employers who hire them make it way too easy to stay. As I've said many times here, I'm a black and white thinker in most areas and I make no apology for that. There is no gray for me when it comes to breaking the law. If you don't like a law, then work to change it. But you don't just get to arbitrarily break without repercussion just because you don't agree with it. You're right. I'm a black and white thinker too, and to me, the undocumented individual should be ultimately responsible. My DH was Canadian. He had to jump through a lot of hoops to live here, providing proof he had money in the bank and a job to work at. It took him months to get his Permanent Resident Alien card. I've always felt that if he could do that, so could the others who come here. I understand that everyone has different circumstances, but ultimately if you want to live here, you have to abide by the rules.
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