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Post by jenis40 on Sept 28, 2017 1:48:17 GMT
Any time health care and health care reform are discussed by the media and our politicians, a huge elephant in the room is left unaddressed: the inordinate amount of influence that pharmaceutical and insurance lobbies carry in our political system. Ridiculous insurance increases happened long before Obama was even in office. I was the VP of personnel for a large company for a few years, starting in 2001. The company employed a few thousand people in several different states, as well as in Canada and Mexico. Our rates were increased every. single. year., in spite of the fact that our employee population was, on average, young and healthy. In 2004, due to some unusual circumstances in our group, our premiums shot up 40-something percent. By the time I left that job in 2010, we paid about 400% more for our coverage than when I started working there. It cost nearly $500 to insure a single, young, healthy employee whose insurance cost about $100 a month at the beginning of the decade. While we argue about Obamacare and who is to blame, the insurance and pharma companies cheer for whatever "reform" is offered to us. Think about that. Real reform would take the profit out of medicine and neither of these enormous lobbies would benefit from that. Insurance companies aren't, generally, interested in keeping people healthy. There's not a lot of profit in that. And you can't sell drugs to healthy people. Real reform, IMO, starts with campaign finance reform. Get big money out of politics. We know that our elected officials are basically bought and sold by lobbies with more money than you or I could ever dream of, and yet we allow this to continue. Before we will see real change on ANY level in this country, we need to work together to overturn Citizens United and to reform campaign finance laws. Make our politicians work for US again. Democrats and Republicans have both sold the US Taxpayer to the highest bidder, and they continue to do so while we fight over which side is more right. A-fricking-men! |
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Post by Clair on Sept 28, 2017 2:18:39 GMT
In a nutshell - medical insurance is really tied to the earnings of your employer and how much of those earnings they are willing and able to spend on insurance plans. Unfortunately for the OP the increases have priced her company out.
We are fortunate to have an outstanding plan but without employer contributions -it would be over $20,000 for two people. Fortunately, my husbands employer pays most of that.
We are also fortunate that our plan covers everything with no preauthorizations or referrals. I was having some tests done last month - the dr looked at my chart and realized what employer my husband had and said let’s do a better test because he knew our insurance would cover it. I was told that there are only a handful of employers who cover this test. While I was thankful that I had the latest and greatest but I was bothered that most people aren’t able to receive the test without paying thousands of dollars out of pocket.
This system needs to be fixed and it won’t be fixed overnight. There will be problems and fallout but we need something that works for everyone regardless of income
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 1:00:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 2:26:23 GMT
I empathize with people paying exorbitant amounts of money for health insurance. I don't think that most people would be happy with government run healthcare as it seems that most of my patients expect private patient rooms, cable tv, Coke & Sprite, meals for their support person and bags of pericare supplies to take home.
I didn't receive any of those things when I had two of my babies in military hospitals. I didn't have an epidural with my 28 hour pitocin induced first labor either because there wasn't an anesthesiologist available at the hospital unless it was in the OR. There weren't private rooms, only a 6 bed "ward" with curtains separating the patients. If I wanted to use the phone I had to use the payphone in the hall. A vending machine was available for sodas. A very different experience for sure, but I am so grateful for it.
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Post by megop on Sept 28, 2017 2:50:00 GMT
I've shared before but I will again. We got on Christian Healthcare Ministries and it's literally been a godsend. We pay $300/month for both of us, we spend $40 extra a quarter and get unlimited coverage - including some per-existing for the first 3 years then full coverage. Our share is $500 per event. If we talk the bill down, we don't even have to pay the $500. It DOES work, I put in a claim and have been reimbursed. AND, it met the ACA requirements so no penalties. I'm not familiar with this particular insurance provider, but I do really caution people to investigate, investigate, investigate. Not all are on the up and up. These entities are not regulated and you are literally placing your "premiums" into entities who do not have to have the back end insurance to shore up coverage. Many of them are not large enough to have enough members to stratify the risk for the pool of those they claim to cover even going bankrupt over one significant catastrophic claim. |
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Post by megop on Sept 28, 2017 3:02:27 GMT
So--it's not the ACA that raised prices, (or government plans before that). It's the insurance companies needing to be profitable for their people. This statement, taken alone, is truly not completely accurate. It's not. Government plans most certainly are shifting costs and essentially price controlling within their programs which, for hospitals especially ones in rural locations, having to make up costs within their risk contracts with commercial payers. Higher costs, higher premiums. Even non-profit hospitals have to make a profit margin to keep the doors open and invest into capital expenditure, technology and yes, even employee wage increases. It's not a single source of issue. It's a craptastic mix with many, many players effecting the dynamic right now. ETA: What we will see in the near future, to me, is the continued retailization of health care as we know it. Amazon has entered into Pharma and is already planning to enter health care delivery with their 1492 project. Apple and others too. Further ETA: More and more ownership of accountability will be placed upon the consumer to be a more meaningful participant in making choices effecting their payout for coverage. This too is part of the issue. Many don't even look at the level of shared costs that employers cover. It is fact, that the highest segment of inappropriate use of Emergency Room care (highest costs and they don't function as a diagnostic service) are those covered by commercial insurance. This is fact across the nation. Some of the ownership of rising premiums are firmly within consumers hands as well. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 28, 2017 4:37:20 GMT
I empathize with people paying exorbitant amounts of money for health insurance. I don't think that most people would be happy with government run healthcare as it seems that most of my patients expect private patient rooms, cable tv, Coke & Sprite, meals for their support person and bags of pericare supplies to take home. I didn't receive any of those things when I had two of my babies in military hospitals. I didn't have an epidural with my 28 hour pitocin induced first labor either because there wasn't an anesthesiologist available at the hospital unless it was in the OR. There weren't private rooms, only a 6 bed "ward" with curtains separating the patients. If I wanted to use the phone I had to use the payphone in the hall. A vending machine was available for sodas. A very different experience for sure, but I am so grateful for it. I'm not sure what you think hospital stays are like for most people, but I don't think the deep dissatisfaction with our system is due to lack of access to private rooms and 5 star meals. Most people want good care that won't bankrupt their family. Period. |
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 1:00:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 4:42:19 GMT
I empathize with people paying exorbitant amounts of money for health insurance. I don't think that most people would be happy with government run healthcare as it seems that most of my patients expect private patient rooms, cable tv, Coke & Sprite, meals for their support person and bags of pericare supplies to take home. I didn't receive any of those things when I had two of my babies in military hospitals. I didn't have an epidural with my 28 hour pitocin induced first labor either because there wasn't an anesthesiologist available at the hospital unless it was in the OR. There weren't private rooms, only a 6 bed "ward" with curtains separating the patients. If I wanted to use the phone I had to use the payphone in the hall. A vending machine was available for sodas. A very different experience for sure, but I am so grateful for it. I'm not sure what you think hospital stays are like for most people, but I don't think the deep dissatisfaction with our system is due to lack of access to private rooms and 5 star meals. Most people want good care that won't bankrupt their family. Period. Actually, I'm well aware of what people report disatisfaction with my hospital thanks to Struder Group survey. You would be surprised. And my point is that all of this costs money. Some people will still be unhappy if the government controls it because they won't be getting all the extras in which they feel entitled to. People think nothing of dropping $200 a month + on cellular phones and service, but will complain about having to purchase a $200 medication monthly. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 28, 2017 4:49:53 GMT
I'm not sure what you think hospital stays are like for most people, but I don't think the deep dissatisfaction with our system is due to lack of access to private rooms and 5 star meals. Most people want good care that won't bankrupt their family. Period. Actually, I'm well aware of what people report disatisfaction with my hospital thanks to Struder Group survey. You would be surprised. Sigh. It's great you're so sure that the deep dissatisfaction with our health care system is due to lack of private rooms and bad hospital food at one hospital in this giant country of ours. I'm sure all the people complaining about exexorbitant premiums and lack of access to healthcare are really only upset about the beds and food in the hospitals they've stayed at 😂 |
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 1:00:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 5:23:28 GMT
Actually, I'm well aware of what people report disatisfaction with my hospital thanks to Struder Group survey. You would be surprised. Sigh. It's great you're so sure that the deep dissatisfaction with our health care system is due to lack of private rooms and bad hospital food at one hospital in this giant country of ours. I'm sure all the people complaining about exexorbitant premiums and lack of access to healthcare are really only upset about the beds and food in the hospitals they've stayed at 😂 Sigh. Rude ass. Moving on. |
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hannahruth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,621 
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Post by hannahruth on Sept 28, 2017 5:32:02 GMT
Holy crap! You pay more for health insurance than we do for our mortgage! That's crazy! OMG!! I do believe what you are all saying but it is unbelievable that people have to pay this type of money for health care. i don't know how you do it. |
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 28, 2017 12:43:06 GMT
Can I ask what state you live in? Many states limit who can provide health care in that state. I'm in Missouri. States limit Health insurance? is that what you meant to say? It's not insurance, it's a health share, there's a big difference. You can also pick any healthcare provider you want, there's no requirements or groups you have to be in. Yes, I meant Health insurance, not health care. Thanks for the info. It's certainly worth looking into. |
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 1:00:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 13:06:02 GMT
Actually, I'm well aware of what people report disatisfaction with my hospital thanks to Struder Group survey. You would be surprised. Sigh. It's great you're so sure that the deep dissatisfaction with our health care system is due to lack of private rooms and bad hospital food at one hospital in this giant country of ours. I'm sure all the people complaining about exexorbitant premiums and lack of access to healthcare are really only upset about the beds and food in the hospitals they've stayed at 😂 Amen. I will take lack of amenities over medical bankruptcy any day of the week and 5 times on Sunday. |
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2017 13:14:04 GMT
I hate hearing these stories of all of you who are paying astronomical prices for healthcare. I can’t imagine.
DH was in the hospital for 5 days, had surgery, an ambulance ride and treated with heavy drugs,
Cost to us? Zero. Yes we pay in taxes, but I did not have to sit in hospital with DH last week and worry about the bill or if I could pay it.
So thankful for our system here.
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 1:00:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 13:19:25 GMT
Actually, I'm well aware of what people report disatisfaction with my hospital thanks to Struder Group survey. You would be surprised. Sigh. It's great you're so sure that the deep dissatisfaction with our health care system is due to lack of private rooms and bad hospital food at one hospital in this giant country of ours. I'm sure all the people complaining about exexorbitant premiums and lack of access to healthcare are really only upset about the beds and food in the hospitals they've stayed at 😂 Have to say I know someone that complained that her hospital room didn't have a view of Lake Michigan vs. the rooftop view she had, and she complained the hospital had Sprite instead of 7-Up.  She sure doesn't complain about the ridiculous premiums though because she has been on Medicaid her entire life, choosing to never work. I know not everyone is like her, but they are definitely out there. |
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 1:00:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 13:21:21 GMT
I hate hearing these stories of all of you who are paying astronomical prices for healthcare. I can’t imagine. DH was in the hospital for 5 days, had surgery, an ambulance ride and treated with heavy drugs, Cost to us? Zero. Yes we pay in taxes, but I did not have to sit in hospital with DH last week and worry about the bill or if I could pay it. So thankful for our system here. I don't want to dig into your finances, but could you share what percentage of your monthly income goes towards taxes/healthcare? |
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
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Post by freebird on Sept 28, 2017 14:01:36 GMT
I've shared before but I will again. We got on Christian Healthcare Ministries and it's literally been a godsend. We pay $300/month for both of us, we spend $40 extra a quarter and get unlimited coverage - including some per-existing for the first 3 years then full coverage. Our share is $500 per event. If we talk the bill down, we don't even have to pay the $500. It DOES work, I put in a claim and have been reimbursed. AND, it met the ACA requirements so no penalties. I'm not familiar with this particular insurance provider, but I do really caution people to investigate, investigate, investigate. Not all are on the up and up. These entities are not regulated and you are literally placing your "premiums" into entities who do not have to have the back end insurance to shore up coverage. Many of them are not large enough to have enough members to stratify the risk for the pool of those they claim to cover even going bankrupt over one significant catastrophic claim. A.) it's not insurance. It's a health share. Biblically we have vowed to help each other. B.) CHM has been around for like 30-40 years. If they went under because of one cancer claim they'd have been out a long time ago. Many people get help with their cancer treatment. C.) Yes, you should investigate any company you work with. Although this is not a company, it's a non-profit. |
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Post by jennyap on Sept 28, 2017 14:11:08 GMT
I hate hearing these stories of all of you who are paying astronomical prices for healthcare. I can’t imagine. DH was in the hospital for 5 days, had surgery, an ambulance ride and treated with heavy drugs, Cost to us? Zero. Yes we pay in taxes, but I did not have to sit in hospital with DH last week and worry about the bill or if I could pay it. So thankful for our system here. I don't want to dig into your finances, but could you share what percentage of your monthly income goes towards taxes/healthcare? Not the one you asked, but I don't mind sharing - my last month's pay (I'm salaried, so it doesn't really vary) I paid a total of 23.5% in taxes. |
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 1:00:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 14:26:38 GMT
I don't want to dig into your finances, but could you share what percentage of your monthly income goes towards taxes/healthcare? Not the one you asked, but I don't mind sharing - my last month's pay (I'm salaried, so it doesn't really vary) I paid a total of 23.5% in taxes. Thanks for sharing! |
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 28, 2017 16:15:42 GMT
I don't want to dig into your finances, but could you share what percentage of your monthly income goes towards taxes/healthcare? Not the one you asked, but I don't mind sharing - my last month's pay (I'm salaried, so it doesn't really vary) I paid a total of 23.5% in taxes. Jenny, does that include all taxes; ie, state and local? |
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 1:00:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 16:46:22 GMT
I have a very big problem with a private organization deciding who lives and who dies and profiting from the suffering of people. For-profit healthcare -- there is no profit or incentive to keep people healthy or to actually pay when they get sick. Time and again we have seen that, left to their own profiteering devices, businesses will screw people over, ruin the environment, adulterate, poison, and willfully harm people in the pursuit of money. In the absence of regulation, people will be harmed and exploited for profit. Healthcare should simply NOT be a for-profit business. Ever. Healthcare and profits are fundamentally incompatible. I cannot decide who I have a bigger girl crush on.....you or AmeliaBloomer!  |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 28, 2017 16:57:27 GMT
Sigh. It's great you're so sure that the deep dissatisfaction with our health care system is due to lack of private rooms and bad hospital food at one hospital in this giant country of ours. I'm sure all the people complaining about exexorbitant premiums and lack of access to healthcare are really only upset about the beds and food in the hospitals they've stayed at 😂 Have to say I know someone that complained that her hospital room didn't have a view of Lake Michigan vs. the rooftop view she had, and she complained the hospital had Sprite instead of 7-Up. She sure doesn't complain about the ridiculous premiums though because she has been on Medicaid her entire life, choosing to never work. I know not everyone is like her, but they are definitely out there. I understand that some people complain about stupid things. But it's facile to write off the dissatisfaction with our broken health care system because of those people. Some people will complain about anything. The vast majority of Americans are drowning in, or afraid of drowning in, medical debt. I don't see people demanding private beds and Michelin stars when health care is discussed, which is why I was dismissive of the first person who mentioned that. Perhaps I misread her intent, but it seemed she was trying to dismiss real complaints because someone, somewhere, once complained about their hospital not being posh enough. Most of us just want access to decent health care that won't bankrupt our families. |
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,649
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Post by valincal on Sept 28, 2017 17:10:31 GMT
I guess if I paid $20,000 a year for health insurance I'd want Sprite and a room with a view too. 😄
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Post by compwalla on Sept 28, 2017 17:32:24 GMT
Have to say I know someone that complained that her hospital room didn't have a view of Lake Michigan vs. the rooftop view she had, and she complained the hospital had Sprite instead of 7-Up. She sure doesn't complain about the ridiculous premiums though because she has been on Medicaid her entire life, choosing to never work. I know not everyone is like her, but they are definitely out there. I understand that some people complain about stupid things. But it's facile to write off the dissatisfaction with our broken health care system because of those people. Some people will complain about anything. The vast majority of Americans are drowning in, or afraid of drowning in, medical debt. I don't see people demanding private beds and Michelin stars when health care is discussed, which is why I was dismissive of the first person who mentioned that. Perhaps I misread her intent, but it seemed she was trying to dismiss real complaints because someone, somewhere, once complained about their hospital not being posh enough. Most of us just want access to decent health care that won't bankrupt our families. I agree. I think people who complain about the view see that they are paying luxury prices for their healthcare so they expect luxury services. US healthcare is the most expensive in the world and when your premiums cost more than your mortgage, why wouldn't someone expect the room to be as nice as their house? HCAHPS data is a very small piece of the puzzle when it comes to hospital compare but because we've never effectively measured it before, the new focus on patient satisfaction is bound to chafe the professionals who've never before been compelled to focus on it. If healthcare was truly affordable I honestly believe peoples' expectations would be moderated. And no matter what, there will always be whiners who bitch and complain about everything. (I'm looking at you, Mom.) |
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Post by bratkar on Sept 28, 2017 17:39:15 GMT
Ok, so its ok for a hospital to charge 78k just for the KNEE in a knee replacement. Not any other charges, not the hospital stay, not the doctors charges, that was just the fee on the bill from the hospital for the 'new' knee. When all charges were totaled for the first week (hospital, rehab, drs etc) of the surgery that happened 3 years years ago the bills totaled closed 500k.
I rarely complain anymore about the prices of health insurance after seeing bills for a new knee, new hip, repaired fractured replacement hip, two spine fusions and a cancer diagnosis.
There is a lot that needs to be repaired right along with the health insurance industry.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2017 18:58:08 GMT
I hate hearing these stories of all of you who are paying astronomical prices for healthcare. I can’t imagine. DH was in the hospital for 5 days, had surgery, an ambulance ride and treated with heavy drugs, Cost to us? Zero. Yes we pay in taxes, but I did not have to sit in hospital with DH last week and worry about the bill or if I could pay it. So thankful for our system here. I don't want to dig into your finances, but could you share what percentage of your monthly income goes towards taxes/healthcare? About 15-17% DH said. That includes property taxes, income tax and tax on products. (Provincial sales tax) |
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Post by jennyap on Sept 28, 2017 19:01:10 GMT
Not the one you asked, but I don't mind sharing - my last month's pay (I'm salaried, so it doesn't really vary) I paid a total of 23.5% in taxes. Jenny, does that include all taxes; ie, state and local? Everything except our council tax which is somewhere in between a local and property tax. For me that's about another 2%. |
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 28, 2017 19:03:03 GMT
Well, if all of my taxes together was 25% and if everyone paid the same percentage of their income into the pool (right now one-half of Americans pay no federal taxes at all), I could live with that.
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Post by compwalla on Sept 28, 2017 19:24:42 GMT
Well, if all of my taxes together was 25% and if everyone paid the same percentage of their income into the pool (right now one-half of Americans pay no federal taxes at all), I could live with that. The reason we have graduated taxes is that it's very hard to live on 75% of $30,000 and much easier to live on 75% of $100,000. A larger share is taken from those with higher incomes because it makes a smaller practical dent in their lifestyle than it would for someone earning a smaller income. Low income families do pay taxes; they pay consumption taxes on gas, property, goods, and services. They pay into social security and medicare. They pay little or no income tax because they don't have much income. |
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 28, 2017 19:30:42 GMT
Well, if all of my taxes together was 25% and if everyone paid the same percentage of their income into the pool (right now one-half of Americans pay no federal taxes at all), I could live with that. The reason we have graduated taxes is that it's very hard to live on 75% of $30,000 and much easier to live on 75% of $100,000. A larger share is taken from those with higher incomes because it makes a smaller practical dent in their lifestyle than it would for someone earning a smaller income. Low income families do pay taxes; they pay consumption taxes on gas, property, goods, and services. They pay into social security and medicare. They pay little or no income tax because they don't have much income. While that sounds great in theory, the reality is that when one half pays all the taxes and the other half pays none (because those who do pay federal taxes ALSO pay consumption taxes) and the half that pays none screams about how others aren't paying their "fair share" there ends up being a whole lot of resentment all around. Every adult in this country needs to have a financial stake in making things better. If you pay nothing, you have no financial interest. So, even if we have a progressive tax, everyone should be paying "something". |
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Post by megop on Sept 28, 2017 19:31:54 GMT
I'm not familiar with this particular insurance provider, but I do really caution people to investigate, investigate, investigate. Not all are on the up and up. These entities are not regulated and you are literally placing your "premiums" into entities who do not have to have the back end insurance to shore up coverage. Many of them are not large enough to have enough members to stratify the risk for the pool of those they claim to cover even going bankrupt over one significant catastrophic claim. A.) it's not insurance. It's a health share. Biblically we have vowed to help each other. B.) CHM has been around for like 30-40 years. If they went under because of one cancer claim they'd have been out a long time ago. Many people get help with their cancer treatment. C.) Yes, you should investigate any company you work with. Although this is not a company, it's a non-profit. I get what you are saying. Correct, it's not insurance, but it is taking the place of it and operating on basically the same risk stratification principles that insurance does. I have no doubt, this is legit. I was merely pointing out that not all are what they seem. Non-profits are essentially companies, too. Non-profit doesn't mean not making any profit, it is an IRS classification. All non-profits have administrative and operational costs associated around whatever services or activity they are involved in. |
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She sure doesn't complain about the ridiculous premiums though because she has been on Medicaid her entire life, choosing to never work.
