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Post by myshelly on Jan 19, 2018 16:46:34 GMT
But now Annie's post has me wondering if there is some cultural difference between the word college and the word university? That's the only explanation I can think of for the way she's describing a college experience. There is, we don't typically refer to university as college, in everyday use the latter usually (although not exclusively) means 6th form college: post-secondary and pre-university, so ages 16-18. Thank you. Americans tend to use the words college and university interchangeably. 16-18 yr olds would typically be in high school.
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Post by mrssmith on Jan 19, 2018 16:53:49 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 17:06:56 GMT
We were talking about this case this morning. My daughter made an observation this morning that really cut through to the core for me. She noted that everyday, no matter how hungry I am, before I feed myself, I feed my dogs. She asked why I do that and I told her "I do it because it would be cruel not to feed them and eat in front of them. " My dogs. I never thought of doing otherwise -- wasn't ever a thought in my head. She said, "That's my point. And yet, these people not only thought of starving their kids, they thought of torturing them and then actually tortured them by having food in front of them, eating in front of them." I read an account that they had two dogs who were healthy and trained. And yet, these people not only did not feed their children, they TORTURED them by having food out that they were not allowed to eat. It's not just the starving them, it's the deep horrifying cruelty of showing them food and eating in front of them. What gets me especially is that photo of the perps sitting at their arraignment and the man has a serious paunch. While he was STARVING and torturing his kids by showing them food they were not allowed to eat, he was eating enough to be overweight. Honestly, their behavior reminds me of accounts I've read of Nazi concentration camps and some Vietnamese POW camps. At what point, do your children become the enemy, the "other", less than human, less than....dogs? I think this stems from the control and 'obey' parts of many fundamentalists faiths. It's all about the dad being in control of the mom, the mom being in control of the kids. Everybody needs to obey the dad. The kids need to obey the mom. A way to test it is to put out food to starving kids, and say "This is for me ONLY" and expect the kids to OBEY. Obeisance is big w/the mind-f#($'ers and cult leaders. Control is paramount.
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
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Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Jan 19, 2018 17:10:49 GMT
I've hung out at community college with my son before he could drive himself. His clarinet teacher taught there, so I'd wait out in the hall in a comfy chair and read until his lesson was over. Nobody ever looked at me twice. If she or he was in their early 20s but looked very young, how would anyone even know? There are plenty of younger kids there taking classes -- some of them homeschooled.
I wouldn't see that behaviour (in a community college) as being odd.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 19, 2018 17:16:38 GMT
last night I was talking about this case with my boyfriend-- he said I seemed really worked up about it, which is unusual for me, to be following a news story so closely and be affected by it-- but I guess it's just the horror of it, and my philosophical outlook of 'I believe people are basically good' which is somewhat shaken after reading a story like this. But if this happened for years to these kids and no one could do anything about it, what else is happening out there that we don't know about?? Also, my upbringing was SO different from this (for which I am extremely thankful), it's such a stark contrast. One of the very good news stories I read last night was about survivors of this kind of thing- the girls held prisoner in Ohio, Jaycee Dugard, etc. and it's hopeful to think they will probably be able to make some kind of a life after this, but man- it shakes my faith in humanity to read about stuff like this happening. CNN-- Victims of Long-Term Captivity Often Rebound
ETA: the story about them living in a different house and just dropping off food once in a while? We make sure our PETS are better taken care of than that when we go on vacation-- to treat your children as less than human, as somehow not needing nurturing from their parents, is horrific.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 17:35:36 GMT
There is, we don't typically refer to university as college, in everyday use the latter usually (although not exclusively) means 6th form college: post-secondary and pre-university, so ages 16-18. Thank you. Americans tend to use the words college and university interchangeably. 16-18 yr olds would typically be in high school. I also think that this is where the misunderstanding came from. The earlier reports I read and I'm assuming Annie did too, was that it was the 17 year old daughter that attended college and yet she didn't know what medicine was.Giving the belief that she wasn't that well educated, together with being a minor but none of her teachers noticed that there was anything wrong. Now it seems that it was the adult son that went to college which obviously gives everyone a different picture.
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Jan 19, 2018 17:54:27 GMT
last night I was talking about this case with my boyfriend-- he said I seemed really worked up about it, which is unusual for me, to be following a news story so closely and be affected by it-- but I guess it's just the horror of it, and my philosophical outlook of 'I believe people are basically good' which is somewhat shaken after reading a story like this. But if this happened for years to these kids and no one could do anything about it, what else is happening out there that we don't know about?? Also, my upbringing was SO different from this (for which I am extremely thankful), it's such a stark contrast. One of the very good news stories I read last night was about survivors of this kind of thing- the girls held prisoner in Ohio, Jaycee Dugard, etc. and it's hopeful to think they will probably be able to make some kind of a life after this, but man- it shakes my faith in humanity to read about stuff like this happening. CNN-- Victims of Long-Term Captivity Often Rebound
ETA: the story about them living in a different house and just dropping off food once in a while? We make sure our PETS are better taken care of than that when we go on vacation-- to treat your children as less than human, as somehow not needing nurturing from their parents, is horrific. I didn't see that bit about them living in a different house. That's horrendous...well, it's all horrendous but that's another level. I read the LA Times article linked and it said that the 2 year old was being adequately fed? So at some point, they must stop feeding their children? I just can't get my head around it.
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Post by librarylady on Jan 19, 2018 17:55:52 GMT
I'd like to see an interview with a coworker of the husband. Was he weird at work also?
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 19, 2018 17:57:28 GMT
I didn't see that bit about them living in a different house I think the story I read said that happened when they were living in TX.
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Post by Lexica on Jan 19, 2018 18:43:24 GMT
I wonder if the mother was a willing participant in the abuse of the kids. I am not defending her at all, I'm just wondering because I cannot see myself, as a mother, ever hurting my children. And most of the mothers I know would not be able to abuse their kids. I feel the same as a mother, BUT, my husband feels the same way as a father. and most of the fathers we know would not hurt their children either. *** Anytime I hear of some horrid acts against children, the tears fall. Prison is too good for anyone who abuses a child. I wasn't intending to intimate that a man could do this to his own children any easier than a woman could. I'm not married, so I just spoke as a woman. I guess I am just struggling to try to understand how these people could do what they did. I would not be opposed to them having a televised death so that it sends a message to anyone else out there who is abusing their children. SaveSave
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Post by LisaDV on Jan 19, 2018 18:44:52 GMT
I feel the same as a mother, BUT, my husband feels the same way as a father. and most of the fathers we know would not hurt their children either. *** Anytime I hear of some horrid acts against children, the tears fall. Prison is too good for anyone who abuses a child. I wasn't intending to intimate that a man could do this to his own children any easier than a woman could. I'm not married, so I just spoke as a woman. I guess I am just struggling to try to understand how these people could do what they did. I would not be opposed to them having a televised death so that it sends a message to anyone else out there who is abusing their children. SaveSaveWell, I’ll agree complete on the last point.
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Post by sabrinae on Jan 19, 2018 18:55:20 GMT
I feel the same as a mother, BUT, my husband feels the same way as a father. and most of the fathers we know would not hurt their children either. *** Anytime I hear of some horrid acts against children, the tears fall. Prison is too good for anyone who abuses a child. I wasn't intending to intimate that a man could do this to his own children any easier than a woman could. I'm not married, so I just spoke as a woman. I guess I am just struggling to try to understand how these people could do what they did. I would not be opposed to them having a televised death so that it sends a message to anyone else out there who is abusing their children. SaveSaveWhile this story is horrific and goes beyond a “standard” case of abuse/neglect/ dependency, it is unfortunately not all that unusual to have similar behaviors on a lesser scale. And neither mother nor fathers are immune from abusing and neglecting their kids. I see equal complicity from both genders and mothers shockingly often fail to protect their children from boyfriends/husbands
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Post by papersilly on Jan 19, 2018 19:07:28 GMT
I feel the same as a mother, BUT, my husband feels the same way as a father. and most of the fathers we know would not hurt their children either. *** Anytime I hear of some horrid acts against children, the tears fall. Prison is too good for anyone who abuses a child. prison will be far from too good for them. "prison justice" will kick in for child abusers like them once word gets out among the prison population. we've all heard about how prisoners can overlook many things but child abuse is not one of them. prison justice awaits.
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Post by bc2ca on Jan 19, 2018 19:08:28 GMT
last night I was talking about this case with my boyfriend-- he said I seemed really worked up about it, which is unusual for me, to be following a news story so closely and be affected by it-- but I guess it's just the horror of it, and my philosophical outlook of 'I believe people are basically good' which is somewhat shaken after reading a story like this. But if this happened for years to these kids and no one could do anything about it, what else is happening out there that we don't know about?? Also, my upbringing was SO different from this (for which I am extremely thankful), it's such a stark contrast. One of the very good news stories I read last night was about survivors of this kind of thing- the girls held prisoner in Ohio, Jaycee Dugard, etc. and it's hopeful to think they will probably be able to make some kind of a life after this, but man- it shakes my faith in humanity to read about stuff like this happening. CNN-- Victims of Long-Term Captivity Often Rebound
ETA: the story about them living in a different house and just dropping off food once in a while? We make sure our PETS are better taken care of than that when we go on vacation-- to treat your children as less than human, as somehow not needing nurturing from their parents, is horrific. I didn't see that bit about them living in a different house. That's horrendous...well, it's all horrendous but that's another level. I read the LA Times article linked and it said that the 2 year old was being adequately fed? So at some point, they must stop feeding their children? I just can't get my head around it.We were talking about this last night and wondered if the baby was treated differently. I know of cases where a mother continues to have babies because of a need to be needed, but once the kids move into toddler/preschool age and exhibit any independence they disconnect. It's a struggle to try make any sense of this horrific situation.
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Post by candleangie on Jan 19, 2018 19:40:38 GMT
I didn't see that bit about them living in a different house. That's horrendous...well, it's all horrendous but that's another level. I read the LA Times article linked and it said that the 2 year old was being adequately fed? So at some point, they must stop feeding their children? I just can't get my head around it.We were talking about this last night and wondered if the baby was treated differently. I know of cases where a mother continues to have babies because of a need to be needed, but once the kids move into toddler/preschool age and exhibit any independence they disconnect. It's a struggle to try make any sense of this horrific situation. Or the baby is nursing, so her food is currently free
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Post by bc2ca on Jan 19, 2018 19:55:44 GMT
We were talking about this last night and wondered if the baby was treated differently. I know of cases where a mother continues to have babies because of a need to be needed, but once the kids move into toddler/preschool age and exhibit any independence they disconnect. It's a struggle to try make any sense of this horrific situation. Or the baby is nursing, so her food is currently free I assumed she was nursing.
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Post by annabella on Jan 19, 2018 19:57:56 GMT
I see we have another thread on this. I read the LA Times article linked and it said that the 2 year old was being adequately fed? So at some point, they must stop feeding their children? I just can't get my head around it. My guess is for some reason the mother couldn't let the adult child leave the house. She liked the status quo as is with the extra help or whatever purpose they served. I have a hard time believing one attended college, how could the mother leave the house with the kids home alone? IT looks like food was used as a weapon - behave and be fed. There was no reason to do that with non-talking children. I think if the mother had no contact without outside society (friends, family, etc) she could be easily spun into her own paranoid reality of what is normal. Or perhaps the mother has a mental illness that the father took advantage of? Who were all the people posting on their facebook page? They obviously weren't attending neighborhood bbqs. I'm really mad at the neighbors who never thought to call child protective services.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 19, 2018 20:37:43 GMT
I have a hard time believing one attended college, how could the mother leave the house with the kids home alone? situations like this is where the 'chaining them to the bed' thing came in, I'm assuming...
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Post by snugglebutter on Jan 19, 2018 21:16:30 GMT
If they lived at separate location from the kids when they were in Texas, I doubt she minded leaving them for a class or two.
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 11:48:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 0:20:53 GMT
But now Annie's post has me wondering if there is some cultural difference between the word college and the word university? That's the only explanation I can think of for the way she's describing a college experience. There is, we don't typically refer to university as college, in everyday use the latter usually (although not exclusively) means 6th form college: post-secondary and pre-university, so ages 16-18. In the US the word college and university are used interchangeably. Most universities start out as colleges and develop into universities. Both colleges and universities are targeted to adult learners over age 18. Our educational ladder is for primary grades to be primary/elementary which consists of kindergarten, grades 1 to grade 5, then comes middle school to be years 6-8 and high school (secondary school) to be grades 9-12 which is around age 18 for most students. A few will graduate from secondary school at 17 and a few at 19 depending on the birthdate cut off of when they entered primary education. "College" applies to a post secondary educational institution that grants no higher than a bachelor degree. Students are typically 18 and older, although there has been a growing acceptance of younger students for part time study who need/want more challenging academics than the secondary school can provide. THe word can also indicate a division within a university such as State University's college of business. The designation of university indicates the institution is allowed to grant degrees higher than a bachelor.
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 11:48:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 0:31:55 GMT
You are making wild assumptions here about their lack of education. Legitimate colleges DO have ways to admit homeschooled students. We also admit high school students as "concurrent enrollment" meaning they are taking classes in their normal school and one or two at the college so having 14 -17 year olds on campus is common enough. As an admission person if an 18+ showed up in my office with a home school transcript and appropriate ACT/SAT scores they will be admitted. These kids may have gotten more education than you want to credit their parents for providing. YOu don't know. YOu assume. I am not expected or allowed to comment on the appearance of any student seeking admission. I see plenty of young adults who are 1) just naturally very thin and 2) those with eating disorders. It is not my place to report them to anyone. I also see a lot of "ashen" young adults who aren't sun seekers. It is way more common than you might imagine. Nothing wrong; then just prefer to sleep all day and play video games all night. Professors get a list of students enrolled in their class. It shows the photo id of the student and their name. Nothing else. There is no birthdate or educational back ground. If a young LOOKING student is in a class the prof doesn't know if it is a 14 year old or a very young looking 19 year old. For the under 18 it is common for someone else to drive them and wait for class to end to take them back to their school. So a parent waiting in the hall is only slightly odd. It isn't some kind of screaming red flag about abuse... it just means this student doesn't drive and doesn't take public transportation (for which there are many legitimate reasons to not take public transportation such as timing of the bus route or lack of public transport) Nothing about the kid in college would raise a flag as being wildly out of place on a college campus. No reason for heads to roll. I am only mandated to report sexual abuse. Nothing about a student with signs of anorexia is something I am required to report. My 'assumptions' as you are pleased to call them, are based on what we have read so far. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Maybe things are different in the US, but in the UK if children turn up to school obviously emaciated, unkempt and with such odd behaviour from a parent, it would trigger alarm bells and a safeguarding case review would be triggered. In fact I can think of no school or college which would allow any parent to loiter all day in a corridor. The wellbeing and protection of ALL pupils would be put at risk by having an unauthorised person hanging around. All adults have to be DAB (Disclosure and Barring) checked. That would be true for secondary/high school in the US. But a college is ADULT education, not childhood education. We do in certain conditions allow teens to participate part time in adult education. Loitering in the halls of colleges is normal behavior. Campuses for both colleges and universities are open. Anyone can walk on at any time. Buildings are typically also open. Classes may start at an time on the quarter hour and officially end in segments of 60, 90 or 180 minutes. There are no bells to signal class change times so it is normal to see people in the hall at any time. Room 101 may have a class that starts are 2 pm and ends at 5pm. Room 102 across the hall may start at 2:15 and end at 3:15. In the meantime a second class may meet in room 102 starting at 3:30, so those students will start showing up around 3-3:25 to wait for the first class to leave so they can enter for their class. People of all ages are very common in the hall as they wait for their classroom to clear of students from a previous class. The age range of any given college class is easily be 15 to 65 years old with the bulk between the ages of 18 & 24. If an adult appears dirty or emancipated who do you report them to? How do you tell if that young person is 15 or a very young looking 19 year old (professors aren't given birth dates of the students)
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Post by laureljean on Jan 20, 2018 0:48:35 GMT
They allowed the kids to write in journals? Hundreds of them? How odd. Why would they allow that? And keep all of them knowing what they contained? Unless they made them write things that weren't true. I just thought of that as I was typing. Maybe they enjoyed reading the kids' journals. Kind of like a trophy thing.
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Post by Drew on Jan 20, 2018 0:49:59 GMT
Like many of you, I can't stop thinking about this tragedy. I've realized that we're never going to have answers that we can understand. No closure... Not for us, for the victims, for the numerous law enforcement folks and medical staff... The 'why' regarding so many aspects will never be something we can get our brains around. This will go down in the books as one of the most horrific cases of American child abuse and we are watching it unfold.
I'm donating to their fund, kissing my kids, and making a vow to be more aware of the children I encounter, and if I see something I'll say something.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 20, 2018 0:56:31 GMT
But now Annie's post has me wondering if there is some cultural difference between the word college and the word university? That's the only explanation I can think of for the way she's describing a college experience. There is, we don't typically refer to university as college, in everyday use the latter usually (although not exclusively) means 6th form college: post-secondary and pre-university, so ages 16-18. That makes a big difference. College here generally students start at some 17 but mostly 18 and up. Some high school students 15-17 or so might go to Colleges classes. I took my DS but dropped him off and waited and went back for him. There are some kids who are VERY young going to college... like they finish high school at 10 and up...........
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Post by Zee on Jan 20, 2018 0:57:34 GMT
All sorts of other safeguarding issues are thrown into sharp focus here. What sort of cockamamie college was the older child attending, that they didn't notice that she was malnourished, ashen, probably struggling academically, given the standard of education she had received so far, and that her nutcase of a mother was hovering outside the door? Other heads need to roll here. Probably a community college class, as anyone can take those and it's not the instructor's job to determine the health of a student. Maybe they assumed she had an eating disorder...not their place to interfere at the college level. Sad though it is, who is going to assume that a college student attending class gets locked up every night?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 20, 2018 1:04:53 GMT
ETA: the story about them living in a different house and just dropping off food once in a while? We make sure our PETS are better taken care of than that when we go on vacation-- to treat your children as less than human, as somehow not needing nurturing from their parents, is horrific. Fort Worth Texas. They were in Texas for 17 years, I don't know if it was the same house, which BTW was badly damaged.
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Post by Laurie on Jan 20, 2018 1:56:31 GMT
I just watched the video of them renewing their vows with an Elvis impersonator. The kids are in the video and while this video is a couple of years old I can see how they didn't raise a flag to people. Knowing what has happened I can see that their arms look small but in all honestly I think I may have just thought they had a small frame. I wonder if the abuse has been worse the last 2 years. Idk I just can't wrap my mind around how two parents could treat their own children like this. Death is too good for them. Sitting in jail is too good for them. I would like them to be in solitary confinement the rest of their lives and given food only once a day.
Last night as I was laying in bed I kept thinking how every night I go to bed and there are kids out there being mistreated. Just sickening and makes my heart hurt so much.
ETA: none of the kids looked over 18 in the video. Knowing the now 29 year old is a male narrowed it down and I just can't believe that when this video was taken one of the boys was around 27. Just sickening.
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Post by Lexica on Jan 20, 2018 2:02:59 GMT
I just now read that they had dogs that were well fed. Thank God the baby and the dogs, who cannot speak for themselves were fed, but damn them to eternal hell for starving the other children. I know we don't do this in the US, but I would love to see some of the same things they did to their children done to them. Put them in solitary and barely feed them, while feeding the other prisoners around them well. I can imagine the mother is more than distraught right now without the husband to tell her what to do. At least I hope so. I have never been a vengeance seeking person, but this case is hitting me so very hard, and I want vengeance for those offspring. I originally typed " those children" but that isn't correct since some are adults. I don't like that they are rehoming the dogs. I would like to think they asked all the family first if they wanted them for themselves. I know the dogs can't wait forever for these people to be settled enough to take them in, but it just seems like another stab in the heart for them.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Jan 20, 2018 2:24:52 GMT
I just now read that they had dogs that were well fed. Thank God the baby and the dogs, who cannot speak for themselves were fed, but damn them to eternal hell for starving the other children. I know we don't do this in the US, but I would love to see some of the same things they did to their children done to them. Put them in solitary and barely feed them, while feeding the other prisoners around them well. I can imagine the mother is more than distraught right now without the husband to tell her what to do. At least I hope so. I have never been a vengeance seeking person, but this case is hitting me so very hard, and I want vengeance for those offspring. I originally typed " those children" but that isn't correct since some are adults. I don't like that they are rehoming the dogs. I would like to think they asked all the family first if they wanted them for themselves. I know the dogs can't wait forever for these people to be settled enough to take them in, but it just seems like another stab in the heart for them. Me too and the only comfort in any of this madness is I keep reading the ones of the abuse getting more severe when they moved to Texas. So they had to know other things and places? And how did the girls know how to escape? I am afraid to read to far into it besides what has been posted here and I follow a lot of news. But this just hits to everyone and to the heart. It's so very hard to comprehend. I just hope they had some ease from being outside or going to the classes? I can't even go there in my own head. It's a tragedy but glad they are seeking help and hope there is a chance for them! eta: I am also very small in frame and size for my age. I get asked it A LOT. many times at the store I am mistaken for Dh's daughter rather than wife. At church kids ask me why I'm as small as them. I have a heart condition but it if you didn't know me you wouldn't know the why? I get they didn't get out and I'm sure if they were seen more it might have lead to more ?? but thats only some reasoning I have in my head too.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 20, 2018 3:29:56 GMT
They allowed the kids to write in journals? Hundreds of them? How odd. Why would they allow that? And keep all of them knowing what they contained? Unless they made them write things that weren't true. I just thought of that as I was typing. Maybe they enjoyed reading the kids' journals. Kind of like a trophy thing. my thoughts were along these lines as well... anything in the journals would be fair game for using against the kids in some way in the future (in a disciplinary / blackmailing sort of way), if they actually DID write personal thoughts in their journals.
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