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Post by gar on Jan 31, 2018 9:05:55 GMT
I just can't imagine that scenario at all. If someone had said that to me in a restaurant I probably would have been struck dumb.
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,744
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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WWTPD?
Jan 31, 2018 10:07:44 GMT
Post by RedSquirrelUK on Jan 31, 2018 10:07:44 GMT
I'm still trying to work out what you mean by "shorts" in this context. In the UK, shorts are outer-wear, worn over underwear. But I realise that shorts on the other side of the pond can mean underwear for men, right? The OP doesn't mention that her DD had a skirt on, only a jumper, blouse and modesty shorts. I have no idea what modesty shorts are.
My school sports uniform was a top, gym skirt and what we called gym knickers underneath, that were worn over our underwear. Is that what these are?
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Jan 31, 2018 10:32:36 GMT
I imagine I would have said something snotty to the woman, and wouldn't have said anything to shame my daughter. Maybe not the right answer though...
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tuesdaysgone
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,832
Jun 26, 2014 18:26:03 GMT
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WWTPD?
Jan 31, 2018 10:41:12 GMT
Post by tuesdaysgone on Jan 31, 2018 10:41:12 GMT
However well intentioned, it was none of her business.
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Post by gar on Jan 31, 2018 10:45:21 GMT
I have no idea what modesty shorts are. Me neither, I assumed they were maybe lycra mid-thigh things? That was part of what made me unable to imagine the scenario along with the possibility of a perv holding a phone camera under the table?? Possible I guess but not something that would have crossed my mind I don't think.
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WWTPD?
Jan 31, 2018 11:01:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by julieinsweden on Jan 31, 2018 11:01:15 GMT
Another side of the change of mood.
When I was twelve we had visiting family. The mum (my cousin a few times removed) took me aside and told me that I should sit like a lady. The blank look on my face must have given me away. So she had to educate me what that meant....including telling me what cute blue hearts I had on my knickers that day.
I was mortified. But I was mostly pissed that my mother never told me. Still feel my face burn when I think about it. I was mad at my mother for a week over that one.......and the other lady like tips I learnt that weekend.
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,731
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Jan 31, 2018 12:38:43 GMT
I'm still trying to work out what you mean by "shorts" in this context. In the UK, shorts are outer-wear, worn over underwear. But I realise that shorts on the other side of the pond can mean underwear for men, right? The OP doesn't mention that her DD had a skirt on, only a jumper, blouse and modesty shorts. I have no idea what modesty shorts are. My school sports uniform was a top, gym skirt and what we called gym knickers underneath, that were worn over our underwear. Is that what these are? In this case she is talking about outerwear shorts worn over underwear, like your gym knickers. It's a thing here. When younger girls wear a dress or skirt, they wear a pair of shorts (they may be longer or short) to cover up a little more, usually fitted and made of lycra. It allows them to be a kid and run and play without without flashing their underwear to the world. My 23-year old daughter still wears them, especially if her skirt is a little short. She doesn't like to get caught with her skirt flipping up in the wind.
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Post by Judie in Oz on Jan 31, 2018 12:39:42 GMT
I'm still trying to work out what you mean by "shorts" in this context. In the UK, shorts are outer-wear, worn over underwear. But I realise that shorts on the other side of the pond can mean underwear for men, right? The OP doesn't mention that her DD had a skirt on, only a jumper, blouse and modesty shorts. I have no idea what modesty shorts are. My school sports uniform was a top, gym skirt and what we called gym knickers underneath, that were worn over our underwear. Is that what these are? Modesty shorts are kind of bike shorts worn over underwear and under dresses/skirts. They give girls a bit more freedom to play etc. whilst wearing dresses/skirts.
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Post by mikklynn on Jan 31, 2018 13:19:10 GMT
I would not have told my daughter anything if she had on shorts underneath but would have told the lady to stop looking. I am so not fond of people policing young girls’ attire and making them feel bad when they aren’t doing anything wrong. Your daughter was made to feel ashamed (or so it seems) by another person who probably could have minded her own business. . I agree. I think the woman was out of line to speak to you about it.
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smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,321
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
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Post by smcast on Jan 31, 2018 13:44:20 GMT
I wouldn't have said a word. Not her job to raise your dd. There are so many other things I'd like to say about loud, foul mouth behavior sometimes. Bigger fish to fry, so to speak, but I know my place.
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StephDRebel
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,666
Location: Ohio
Jul 5, 2014 1:53:49 GMT
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Post by StephDRebel on Jan 31, 2018 13:47:51 GMT
I would have struggled to not immediately whisper back "you need to close your lips and mind your business"
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 31, 2018 13:55:39 GMT
I'm still trying to work out what you mean by "shorts" in this context. In the UK, shorts are outer-wear, worn over underwear. But I realise that shorts on the other side of the pond can mean underwear for men, right? The OP doesn't mention that her DD had a skirt on, only a jumper, blouse and modesty shorts. I have no idea what modesty shorts are. My school sports uniform was a top, gym skirt and what we called gym knickers underneath, that were worn over our underwear. Is that what these are? Also in this case, when the OP says “uniform jumper” she probably means a skirt with an attached bib of some sort on the front. That was one of our options years ago when I went to private school. Some also have a full sleeveless top attached to the skirt that you would still wear a collared shirt underneath. Ours were made out of the most hideous blue plaid polyester fabric. Similar to THIS. And other posters are correct in that the modesty shorts mentioned are stretchy Lycra outerwear that girls can wear over their undies but under their skirts or dresses so they can climb and run around on the playground like the boys without worrying about anyone seeing their underwear. The ones my DD has are longer down the leg, like bike shorts.
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WWTPD?
Jan 31, 2018 14:14:44 GMT
Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 31, 2018 14:14:44 GMT
I'm not the dress police, either, but I do worry for girls who sit on the subway in their school uniform skirts with their legs apart. Some of the "modesty shorts" are so small that it's hard to tell whether they are underwear or shorts - and really, who wants to imagine some dude peering up the skirt long enough to tell WHAT is under there? Going up the stairs in the subway station is another cringe-worthy event during school commute times. Some of the girls will hold the back hem of their too-short skirts to make it less visible to those climbing the stairs behind them, but it's only marginally effective, and many girls don't bother. I have never said anything to a schoolgirl, but I do wonder if I'm doing the right thing by MYOB - are they unaware? I guess I would rather a nice lady say something to my DD than some pervy guy. I do worry about some jerk following her up the stairs on purpose... I guess I'll continue keeping my mouth shut, though - except to my own DD of course! I agree. Regardless of whether girls are wearing shorts under the skirt, IMO they should still be taught to be aware of what they are showing, how they are sitting when wearing a dress/skirt, etc.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 31, 2018 14:37:51 GMT
I think because the woman whispered it quietly and only to the mom, she didn’t mean to embarrass the girl or shame her publicly. It wasn’t like she said something out loud that everyone around could hear. And for as much as I really dislike confrontation and would likely never say anything if I noticed something like that myself, as the mother of a young girl myself it likely WOULD be something I’d probably notice even if I wasn’t specifically looking for it. That doesn’t make me a weirdo or a buttinski, it makes me the mom of a kid who needs constant reminding about those kinds of things so I notice.
And as I said before, I’m not anciently old myself but if I didn’t have a grade school aged daughter, I wouldn’t know that modesty shorts were a thing and I probably would think I was seeing underwear too.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 31, 2018 14:50:46 GMT
I'm not the dress police, either, but I do worry for girls who sit on the subway in their school uniform skirts with their legs apart. Some of the "modesty shorts" are so small that it's hard to tell whether they are underwear or shorts - and really, who wants to imagine some dude peering up the skirt long enough to tell WHAT is under there? Going up the stairs in the subway station is another cringe-worthy event during school commute times. Some of the girls will hold the back hem of their too-short skirts to make it less visible to those climbing the stairs behind them, but it's only marginally effective, and many girls don't bother. I have never said anything to a schoolgirl, but I do wonder if I'm doing the right thing by MYOB - are they unaware? I guess I would rather a nice lady say something to my DD than some pervy guy. I do worry about some jerk following her up the stairs on purpose... I guess I'll continue keeping my mouth shut, though - except to my own DD of course! A number of years ago when some of my older nieces were late middle school/high school age, modesty shorts weren’t yet a thing here. They attended private schools and I believe the dress code was that they were supposed to have skirts that came to the knee, or maybe just barely above the knee. Those girls would roll the waist of the skirt up so their knee length uniform skirt looked like a mini skirt. My sister was constantly yelling after them, “Roll your skirt down! I can see your underwear and so can EVERYONE ELSE!” There were even a few times when she was walking up the stairs behind them in the morning and made them go back to their rooms to change underwear because they were wearing thong underwear under their uniform skirts and nothing else!
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,618
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jan 31, 2018 15:01:50 GMT
I just would've said: "don't worry about it. She has shorts on."
No reason to create a scene and I wouldn't have said a word to my daughter.
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WWTPD?
Jan 31, 2018 16:08:57 GMT
Post by maryland on Jan 31, 2018 16:08:57 GMT
I would not have told my daughter anything if she had on shorts underneath but would have told the lady to stop looking. I am so not fond of people policing young girls’ attire and making them feel bad when they aren’t doing anything wrong. Your daughter was made to feel ashamed (or so it seems) by another person who probably could have minded her own business. . I agree! Maybe that lady doesn't realize that most girls and boys where shorts underneath certain articles of clothing. My girls wear dance shorts underneath skirts and my husband and my friends sons wear spandex type shorts under their longer gym shorts.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 14:41:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 16:29:32 GMT
Personally, I think the lady was rude. You handled it the best you could. ((HUGS)) to you and your daughter!
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Post by Sassy Sabrina SWZ on Jan 31, 2018 17:47:37 GMT
OK, I'm going to admit my age here: I just turned 73. I never heard of modesty shorts or any of the other names for this apparel, and, like the lady in the restaurant, I would have assumed the girl was just wearing underpants. I probably wouldn't have said anything, but I don't think the woman was being rude--certainly, not intentionally. Her heart was in the right place, and she was probably a mom herself who was feeling protective toward a child who was not aware that she was revealing too much.
I agree with the previous poster who said that the woman probably felt a sisterhood with other women. When I was a kid, we wore skirts over full-length slips (and underpants, of course) to school. Girls would always advise each other, discreetly, if their underwear was showing. "It's snowing down south" meant that your slip was showing. I don't think there was any euphemism for underpants, because the skirts were long enough to hide them, and girls didn't do cartwheels on the playground unless they were very reckless.
I do think the girl's mom could have spoken to her daughter later, but adolescents tend to be embarrassed by any discussion like that, so there is probably no way to phrase it that wouldn't have resulted in the same embarrassment. Still, it would have saved the day at the restaurant.
Today, when I see young teens displaying too much of their anatomy in public (usually, wearing a top that is very low-cut or wearing flesh-colored tights with nothing over them), I have to bite my tongue, not to say anything, but I realize that they are following the fashions of a culture I'm too old to participate in. But since I'm from a different generation, I feel that it's not my place to say anything; I'm not their mother or sister or their school friend, and even if I said anything, they would not feel they were revealing too much or doing anything wrong. There are no standards or "rules" anymore! So it's best to just dress the way I feel is appropriate for me and let those young girls learn, the hard way, from their mistakes.
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IAmUnoriginal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,894
Jun 25, 2014 23:27:45 GMT
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Post by IAmUnoriginal on Jan 31, 2018 18:02:27 GMT
I'm going to go completely against the grain, I guess. I would have thanked the woman and talked to DD about it later. I don't think she was judging your DD or you. She might have been trying prevent embarrassment rather than cause it. Maybe the woman wasn't the only one to notice? Maybe what drew the woman's attention to DD was a group of boys near her giggling that they could see up a girl's skirt? Maybe she is thinking that in the day and age of cell phones with excellent cameras, your DD needs to be aware that anyone could very slyly take a picture of her exposed like that and it will end up in the hands of others as equally pervy as the one who took it? The shorts my niece wears under her skirts are pretty much like a second skin and only cover a bit more of her than undies. Pervs won't differentiate. Maybe she thought better you talk to her privately rather than her be teased at school? I really don't think she was trying to be harmful. And, she's likely out of the loop on what is available to girls to wear under dresses and skirts.
A nosy old biddy from my hometown spoke to me directly when I was sitting at a program in our gym and whispered to me to sit like a lady. I was probably 10-12 years old. My mom had never said a word to me about it. It was time someone told me that I was no longer a little girl and flashing my underoos was no longer cute, even if accidental. I was embarrassed, but to this day, old Gladys (Anderson, not Kravitz) comes to mind when I am in a skirt or dress. I make sure she can't see my undies. She didn't mean any harm. She knew my mom and that my mom wouldn't take care of it, so she did. She was really watching out for me, even if I blushed a deep shade of red when it happened.
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Post by merry on Jan 31, 2018 18:09:08 GMT
I used to stand daily behind a gaggle of private high school girls at Starbucks that would do the "roll the skirt up to make it shorter" thing before and after school. And they weren't wearing modesty shorts. This was within the last five years. It was like a walking Victoria's Secret commercial. Especially when they would bend over to pick things out of the cooler case in the front of the store. Needless to say, there were a lot of men that drank coffee there in the mornings...
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Jan 31, 2018 21:02:47 GMT
I'm still trying to work out what you mean by "shorts" in this context. In the UK, shorts are outer-wear, worn over underwear. But I realise that shorts on the other side of the pond can mean underwear for men, right? The OP doesn't mention that her DD had a skirt on, only a jumper, blouse and modesty shorts. I have no idea what modesty shorts are. My school sports uniform was a top, gym skirt and what we called gym knickers underneath, that were worn over our underwear. Is that what these are? In this case she is talking about outerwear shorts worn over underwear, like your gym knickers. It's a thing here. When younger girls wear a dress or skirt, they wear a pair of shorts (they may be longer or short) to cover up a little more, usually fitted and made of lycra. It allows them to be a kid and run and play without without flashing their underwear to the world. My 23-year old daughter still wears them, especially if her skirt is a little short. She doesn't like to get caught with her skirt flipping up in the wind. I wear them. All of my girls wear them. I started wearing them in kindergarten, back in the day when little girls always wore dresses to school. My teacher told the girls that we could not play on the playground equipment because the boys could see our underwear. Five year old me went home and thought about it and realized that if I wore shorts under my dress, the problem was solved. I can still remember that teacher's anger when she yelled at me the next day and I flipped up my dress to show her my shorts. LOL She called my parents to tell them that I was insubordinate. My mother told her that showing her how I solved the problem was not insubordinate and asked why she wasn't yelling at the boys for looking at our underwear. Also LOL So when my girls were little, from a very young age, I always put them in shorts. My one girl has very sensitive skin and she found that when moved to FL, if she wasn't wearing shorts under her dress/skirt, she would end up with a heat rash where her legs touched. So she always always wears them.
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kate
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Location: The city that doesn't sleep
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Feb 1, 2018 3:54:17 GMT
Those girls would roll the waist of the skirt up so their knee length uniform skirt looked like a mini skirt. The SKIRT ROLLING! I was breakfasting with some other moms from DD's school who were alumnae of that school. They talked about how they used to "roll their skirts" and how they knew their DDs were doing it, too. Having gone to public school with a free-n-easy dress code, this was news to me. I don't *think* my own DD does it, but she threatens to when I try to buy her uniform skirts that she deems "granny length."
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