kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Apr 28, 2018 14:29:02 GMT
Dogs that behave this way are always in a constant state of anxiety and heightened response. They are not necessarily having a good life. I know it's hard, but it may be time to put him down.
Sometimes #adoptdontshop doesn't work out. It's sad. I'm sorry.
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Post by gillyp on Apr 28, 2018 14:29:24 GMT
No matter how much you love him and he loves you, you are the wrong family for him imvho. I would think his best hope is with someone who CAN watch him all the time, in the same way you watch a toddler. Someone who will provide consistent commands so the dog knows where he stands. Our current GSD hates anyone walking past the house. HATES it. He goes ballistic yet if we were walking down the street and that same person passes us, the dog doesnt give them a second glance or if the person wants to pet him he will stand beautifully and quietly. He is always with an adult in the house or yard. We are always on hand to check him if necessary. It’s not as onerous as it sounds as, as his pack, that’s how it would be anyway. He does get left on his own but rarely. I admit Jack Russells are one of my least favourite breeds. I have never yet met one who wasn’t snappy or snarly and I wouldn’t have one as a family pet. I also think he’s picking up in your anxiety about him and feeding off this. My suggestions, as I don’t believe you will ever get your DH on board as he’s not interested, is baby gates on the doors, a large, enclosed outdoor run and a muzzle. Give it a few months and see how it goes.
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Post by Leone on Apr 28, 2018 14:29:32 GMT
Well, I dealt with a cat who would run in from the back yard to pee on the rug in front of me. Finally decided it was no longer something I would put up with...Freddie went to cat purgatory as he didn't earn his way to cat heaven. I am actually tired of the rescue dog movement. It has become a virtue signal. My sister ended up with a dog that was very similiar to your problem. Finally had to put it down.
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,418
Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Apr 28, 2018 14:32:24 GMT
Have you tried some medications? If it's so anxiety driven (being left in a crate) some of that might come out in his temperament too. I know you are working through a tough decision and only you can decide this. Nobody will judge you for doing what's right for you, your family and the people that come in contact with your dog.
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Post by mamakoala on Apr 28, 2018 14:50:47 GMT
Have you tried some medications? If it's so anxiety driven (being left in a crate) some of that might come out in his temperament too. I know you are working through a tough decision and only you can decide this. Nobody will judge you for doing what's right for you, your family and the people that come in contact with your dog. yes, he is on prozac and trazadone. the prozac helps his anciety and he doesnt pee and poop 10 times a day on it, so there's less mess in the house. the trazadone doesn't help.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 28, 2018 14:56:48 GMT
Why not try a large cage indoors?
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Post by Delta Dawn on Apr 28, 2018 15:05:13 GMT
My girl standard hated people coming into our yard. Canada Post sent us a letter that she was not to be in the yard ever again and we had to pick up our mail at the mail station. That was a disaster right there. She was volitile. You may be ordered to do something about your dog regardless.
I am sorry. It just sucks. Talk to your very and see what he/she thinks is best.
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pancakes
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,993
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on Apr 28, 2018 15:06:29 GMT
I would look to rescues that take dogs with problems. He needs someone who has the time to work out his behavioral issues and train him the way he really needs to be trained.
I think a dog that has nipped the postmen twice isn’t hopeless. He isn’t being aggressive to anything and everything that isn’t you. I don’t think dogs should be put down without a college try (and I mean from someone with the time to dedicate to fixing his issues) and I think you’re understanding that he needs help beyond you. On a separate note, I get angry when people subscribe pits or pit mixes to the being bad dogs — some of them are the sweetest, gentlest souls I know.
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Post by mamakoala on Apr 28, 2018 15:29:39 GMT
I would look to rescues that take dogs with problems. He needs someone who has the time to work out his behavioral issues and train him the way he really needs to be trained. I think a dog that has nipped the postmen twice isn’t hopeless. He isn’t being aggressive to anything and everything that isn’t you. I don’t think dogs should be put down without a college try (and I mean from someone with the time to dedicate to fixing his issues) and I think you’re understanding that he needs help beyond you. On a separate note, I get angry when people subscribe pits or pit mixes to the being bad dogs — some of them are the sweetest, gentlest souls I know. I contacted a local rescue that works with problem dogs. I will see what they have to say.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 28, 2018 15:33:57 GMT
Thank you all. I have a call into our vet to have a discussion this afternoon. I’m sorry you are going through this The fact that you’ve already involved a behaviorist tells me you’ve tried many different things. I don’t feel rehoming him is the right thing to do (as others have suggested, not you). Sometimes a dog can not be rehabilitated. A co-worker had one of those dogs and had to put him to sleep. She also had a behaviorist come out and his was determined to be neurological and he would never be right. He was very much like your dog and situation. As much as it hurts and feels wrong, I do believe the best thing for everyone, including your dog would be to put him down
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Post by elaine on Apr 28, 2018 15:42:28 GMT
I would look to rescues that take dogs with problems. He needs someone who has the time to work out his behavioral issues and train him the way he really needs to be trained. I think a dog that has nipped the postmen twice isn’t hopeless. He isn’t being aggressive to anything and everything that isn’t you. I don’t think dogs should be put down without a college try (and I mean from someone with the time to dedicate to fixing his issues) and I think you’re understanding that he needs help beyond you. On a separate note, I get angry when people subscribe pits or pit mixes to the being bad dogs — some of them are the sweetest, gentlest souls I know. I contacted a local rescue that works with problem dogs. I will see what they have to say. If the local rescue that works with problem dogs will not take him, I would put him down. As much as I love dogs, it doesn’t sound like he has a good quality of life - not for your lack of trying, but that even with medication he is so anxious. You can’t make your family members have the same level of commitment to the dog, and it doesn’t appear that they will do it on their own. Because of that, the dog will never be safe from attacking people while in your home. I hope that the local rescue can and will take him.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 28, 2018 15:53:10 GMT
I get a little tired of the pass society gives small dogs when their behavior is bad. If it had been one bite and my pitbull every single pea would be in agreement that it's time to put the dog down.
Two bites here with a dog that has no discipline, is already on Prozac, and is having no supervision when you aren't around? How long before he bites someone else? Maybe even one of your kids, cats, or your other dog.
My dog was bit twice by a jack Russell in our neighborhood while we were walking her on a leash. The owners were not apologetic at all. I was like they were lucky my dog didn't bite back because she's a big dog and could have killed their dog.
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Post by gryroagain on Apr 28, 2018 16:03:06 GMT
Aw, I’m sorry.
First off- the biting is bad, yes. But it seems not to be to the dangerous dog stage, and the fact that he is manageable (if the humans manage) is a factor. Management like crafting or muzzling when you are gone may be an option.
But.
He is on meds already, and you have tried behaviorist for his anxiety and fear, and it is t helping. You cannot realistically move to a cabin in the woods just you and him with no visitors ever. And your family situation is what it is- so you need to accept and work with that, and if it will work for the dog.
There are problem dog rescues, yes. But what happens will be totally out of your hands and he will face the trauma of losing you. And on some level you are passing a problem dog off to be someone else’s problem, rather than yours.
Euthanasia is gentle and painless, and he can be with you to the end. He will not feel abandoned or alone, because you will be there.
There are so many worse things than being put to sleep...I do a lot of dog rescue so I see them. If you cannot keep him and people safe, it is truly the best option. The magical “perfect new home” for problem dogs rarely arises, rather they just bounce from place to place and ultimately the outcome is the same or they stay caged forever. It’s not easy but it is probably best for your dogs well being to put him down.
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,765
Jun 25, 2014 23:21:30 GMT
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Post by scrapngranny on Apr 28, 2018 16:14:54 GMT
We had a rescue boxer, who was also a fear biter. We were on twenty acres and had people coming and going all the time. Our dog nipped a neighbor who went by on a quad. After that incident we fenced in a small portion of our yard, so the dog could be outside, but could not come in contact with anyone on the property unless one of us was with him. That worked really well and we could relax knowing he and everyone else were safe. He was such a sweet loving boy, but he did not trust strangers, especially men.
I hope you can find a solution too. I did not want to let guy down after I promised him a forever home.
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Post by scrapmaven on Apr 28, 2018 16:32:26 GMT
I can hear your love for the dog, but also your anxiety. If you put this dog down, will you forgive your husband for not making an effort? I think you need to think through all of the feelings that may arise. I think the first thing I would do is see if you can get your dh more on board. If that won't happen, I'd look into rehoming at a place that takes difficult dogs. I know these places exist. But I would really try to work with my dh first - because I think you may resent him for not helping at all. I couldn't agree more!
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Post by missbennet on Apr 28, 2018 17:20:31 GMT
I'll just agree with what Peabay said, and add that I'm sorry you're in this situation. It would suck to also have the husband part of the problem pressing - ugh. I hope you can feel at peace with whatever you decide - you are certainly being a responsible pet owner trying a lot of different approaches.
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Post by auntkelly on Apr 28, 2018 17:21:36 GMT
You can probably tell from my avatar how I feel about my 16 year old Jack Russell mix. I love him to death, but if he ever bit anyone I would put him down immediately, because of the liability issues and because I would feel so guilty if he seriously hurt anyone.
I'm so sorry you are going through this.
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Post by peasapie on Apr 28, 2018 17:47:58 GMT
My friend has a relatively tame, and older, Jack Russell. I don't know if this is typical of the breed, but he has twice attacked another dog without obvious provocation. She loves him dearly, but I feel like I never know when he is going to snap.
I would try to adopt him out, perhaps to someone who is mainly housebound and who understands his strengths and weaknesses. Consider putting to sleep only as a last resort.
ETA: for the short term, could you put a mailbox on a stand at the end of your property, rather than mailman coming up to the house?
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 28, 2018 18:00:19 GMT
Is it possible to take him to a trainer ? One that will keep him for a week or more and really work with him and then with your family?
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,738
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Apr 28, 2018 18:08:12 GMT
First off, I will say that it sounds like you genuinely love your Kippy dog (I had a Kippy once, too) and you are trying hard to solve the problem and give him a good life with you and your family.
My first suggestion was going to be a good sized, chain-link dog run with sides too high to jump, and concrete footings,so he can't dig out, with a comfy dog house for him to go in. And to keep him there when you are not at home. But it sounds like he would likely freak out even more, even with a large run area. Maybe that combined with a soft muzzle would keep him from hurting himself trying to bite or chew his way out? I don't think you are going to be able to achieve the level of cooperation you need from your family, simply because they are not as attached to the dog as you are.
I know how difficult it is to have to consider putting him down, but I am afraid that will be your best option. You need to think about his quality of life. Yes he loves you, you are his alpha person, but he sounds so anxious and hyper, and really can't be allowed to run at large again to possibly bite someone else. If he was sick, with cancer or failing health, it would be hard (I've BTDT with my little Poodle) to face that decision, but he IS suffering from a disorder that is probably not going to get any better. Yeah, you could drug him to the point that he would not be an escape risk, but to what end?
I think you know what you have to do as a responsible, loving pet Mom, and I wish you peace and comfort with your decision making process. Hugs, I know it is hard.
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Post by txdancermom on Apr 28, 2018 18:32:35 GMT
is there someone who can help you train him? It sounds like that there was a big man in his prior life that abused or hurt him and he is lashing out at others who appear to be the same to him.
However, if your family won't cooperate and reinforce the training, keeping him kenneled or giving him up may be the only way to go.
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Post by Chips on Apr 28, 2018 18:44:36 GMT
Oh, I am sorry and can tell how much you love your dog. I try muzzling him and look to rehome with a family who is trained to deal with a dog that behaves this way. Since your dh and son are not helping I am afraid your home is not the best best for your dog.
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gina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,228
Jun 26, 2014 1:59:16 GMT
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Post by gina on Apr 28, 2018 18:47:59 GMT
I grew up with a Jack Russel and she was nasty and would nip. Sorry you are dealing with this. Best of luck in whatever you decide. I don't have any great advice. I just know this is hard.
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Post by trixiecat on Apr 28, 2018 18:48:40 GMT
I have been there before. We had our American Eskimo for one year. When she would walk on a leash and see other dogs she was great. But on our property she was so protective and would go after people in our house and bark fiercly. One day a friend came over and she had her pinned against her car. She said, "I am not afraid of dogs, but yours I am". That was it for me. I knew that it was a ticking time bomb before he bit someone (she had already slightly bit another kid).
We found someone in our neighborhood whose parents used to have this breed and had 10 acres. They took her since it was just the two of them. A much calmer setting. I have no idea what happened to her all of these years later. I will say that one thing we could not do in our house without her being vicious was hug each other or our kids. The people that took her said that never changed, but she did seem to be doing alot better in their environment.
I hate to say this, but if you can't find someone or a rescue to take her, I would have the dog put down. You don't need the anxiety or liability.
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Post by SallyPA on Apr 28, 2018 19:18:29 GMT
I’m very sorry. I agree with putting him down, as hard as that is.
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Post by katlaw on Apr 28, 2018 19:31:56 GMT
I would research natural remedies for him. Dog massage. Pheromones. Talk to your vet about medications that can calm him down. If he is anxious or high strung he could really benefit from something to help him calm down. Do you have something like a Bark Busters near you? I know they are costly but they can do amazing things with your dog. And also help train your family on how to deal with the dog. I am an animal lover, it would be really hard for me to give up without doing everything I could to help him.
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Post by mamakoala on Apr 28, 2018 19:32:26 GMT
spoke to vet; she agrees we should put him dow, but also thinks it's not cut and dry.
we just had a family meeting. it did not go well. 15 year refuses to accept that we may have to put him down. flat out refuses. i am at a loss.
eta: finally lost it on my hubby. he was cracking jokes about oo, now i can get the german shepherd i've always wanted and cracking jokes with my son. I brought him to our bedroom and i told him he wasn't being supportive, that he has NEVER UNDERSTOOD how big a deal our dogs misbehavior was, and the liability it brings to us, both emotionally and financially. Joking at this moment undermines just how serious this is, and the fact that he has always refused to put a leash on kippy sends the message that his biting or potential to bite just 'isnt' that big a deal'. I am shaking.
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Post by trixiecat on Apr 28, 2018 19:50:37 GMT
My kids were 11 and 9 at the time. You tell them you are doing it, let them greive, explain why (which they won't completely understand) and the next day you take the dog to the vet. My kids were hysterical for a day or two and then calmed down. We promised them from the beginning we would get them a better dog. And maybe two months later we rescued at dog that we still have.
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Post by Basket1lady on Apr 28, 2018 19:52:02 GMT
Our first dog was a lab/JR/chow mix. She was loyal to our family to a fault. Never once did I fear for children around her. But men? Men wearing a hat? Or a black dog walking outside with it's owner? It was dicey. She would break through a screen door to get at him or the dog. And it only got worse as she got older. She was 7 when we had our first child and was so protective of DS that we had to kennel the dog if we had a sitter.
We did keep her and she died at 11 from a tumor. But I'll admit, it was almost a bit of a relief not to worry about her. If we had people over or other kids, we would kennel her because I just didn't trust her. If I answered the door, I had a hold of her collar (which was pretty tight on her.)
If you cannot use a stronger medication, and other family members are not on board with restraining the dog, realistically you cannot keep your JR. Whether that means you put the dog down or rehome it, I don't know. But the dog is a danger to others and has proven itself so. I'm so very sorry. I think we almost love the troubled ones more because they need the love the most.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 2:57:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 19:55:30 GMT
finally lost it on my hubby. he was cracking jokes about oo, now i can get the german shepherd i've always wanted and cracking jokes with my son. I brought him to our bedroom and i told him he wasn't being supportive, that he has NEVER UNDERSTOOD how big a deal our dogs misbehavior was, and the liability it brings to us, both emotionally and financially. Joking at this moment undermines just how serious this is, and the fact that he has always refused to put a leash on kippy sends the message that his biting or potential to bite just 'isnt' that big a deal'. I am shaking. I'm sorry he's being an arse about this, he must know how heartbreaking this is for you
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