zella
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Jun 9, 2018 3:03:03 GMT
I think died from suicide is fine if it's accurate. I agree not all suicides are due to mental illness. A google search brings up many articles talking about why the term "committed suicide" shouldn't be used. Fundamentally the word "commit" is only used for negative acts, for breaking laws or doing something horrible. While killing oneself certainly is horrible, it shouldn't have this language attached to it.
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AnotherPea
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Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jun 9, 2018 3:09:44 GMT
Unfortunately it is what it is, and softening the language doesn’t change reality. ITA. I won’t be eliminating the language from my vocabulary. The idea that “killed himself” is better is ludicrous to me. I also don’t think those who commit suicide are necessarily mentally ill. Some are, some are not.
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Post by peasapie on Jun 9, 2018 3:11:21 GMT
I’m a huge supporter of destigmatizing mental health issues and bringing them out in the open.
With that said, I will also say that I consider life to be a precious gift, and I don’t support seeking more socially acceptable language to normalize the act of suicide. We need to fight the impulse to end one’s own life and keep trying to find the tools to regain mental health.
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Post by laureljean on Jun 9, 2018 4:32:10 GMT
I am a Christian but I guess I never thought suicide equals Hell. I'm with you. I remember a classmate telling me that my dad was in hell because he died from suicide. It was probably the most hurtful thing that anyone has ever said to me. (Of course now I realize that we were children and she was probably just repeating what she had been hearing at home.) Not my finest hour, but I said," Then say hello to him when you see him because you are going there for being so mean." I remember that there was a big fuss with her mom calling mine, and my mom saying, "Your kid got what she deserved. Maybe you ought to try teaching her some tact."
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Post by canadianscrappergirl on Jun 9, 2018 4:37:05 GMT
I am a Christian but I guess I never thought suicide equals Hell. I'm with you. I remember a classmate telling me that my dad was in hell because he died from suicide. It was probably the most hurtful thing that anyone has ever said to me. (Of course now I realize that we were children and she was probably just repeating what she had been hearing at home.) Not my finest hour, but I said," Then say hello to him when you see him because you are going there for being so mean." I remember that there was a big fuss with her mom calling mine, and my mom saying, "Your kid got what she deserved. Maybe you ought to try teaching her some tact." Oh gosh that is so awful I'm so sorry someone was so hurtful to you during such a sad time. I can't even imagine how difficult the loss of your dad must have been. Good for you for saying that to her she deserved it lol! I honestly had no idea my husband believed that. He has no empathy towards mental illness he doesn't understand it.
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Post by fashionista on Jun 9, 2018 4:55:31 GMT
Anderson Cooper discussed this tonight.
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Post by dewryce on Jun 9, 2018 5:24:53 GMT
I don't particularly understand why this has become a "thing" recently. Perhaps because to me the term "committed" doesn't have an inherently negative connotation. I just hear it as a word to describe that someone took an action. It was only in the last post on this subject that I even became aware that the phrase is not liked by some. Since then, I have tried to pay more attention to my words. While I don't get it, I'm certainly not going to intentionally say something that may make a person struggling with this in any capacity feel worse.This is how I feel. Even as someone who once had suicidal thoughts, the term "committed" and reporting of details didn't particularly bother me, and I didn't identify with them. However, experts on the subject indicate that the use of them are problematic for some, and can trigger someone in crisis and cause it to "spread," I think the term they use is contagion. It's not about how I feel about the words and the information, but about how they can affect other people who are not in a good place mentally. For that reason, I am happy to trust the experts and modify my vocabulary.
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Post by lauradrumm on Jun 9, 2018 6:32:49 GMT
I always thought of committing suicide as meaning committed to dying.
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Post by tara on Jun 9, 2018 7:19:12 GMT
When I talk about my family members who have killed them selves, I always say committed suicide. For me it just sounds better and I can’t put my finger on why. I guess everyone is different and have different triggers.
I would also be careful of throwing around the term “mentally ill.” It reminds me when I lost a baby in the early 90’s. Depression and antidepressants weren’t talked about that much. I lost a whole year because of depression. My mom tried to get me to talk to my doctor about it. I remember saying but I’m not crazy. I’m just sad. It’s talked about a lot more now and people understand but still there’s people who think if you’re mentally ill you here voices or pick up a knife and stab them. I hope I’m making sense. It’s late here.
When I was flipping through the news article the other day, it showed a picture of Kate Spades body being wheeled out of their apartment building. Now who needs to see that? I can’t imagine her loved ones are devastated and there’s people taking pictures.
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Post by tara on Jun 9, 2018 7:35:57 GMT
I am a Christian but I guess I never thought suicide equals Hell. I'm with you. I remember a classmate telling me that my dad was in hell because he died from suicide. It was probably the most hurtful thing that anyone has ever said to me. (Of course now I realize that we were children and she was probably just repeating what she had been hearing at home.) Not my finest hour, but I said," Then say hello to him when you see him because you are going there for being so mean." I remember that there was a big fuss with her mom calling mine, and my mom saying, "Your kid got what she deserved. Maybe you ought to try teaching her some tact." I’m so sorry that little brat said that to you! Besides the point that I don’t believe in a burning hell, I believe our god is a loving god and he knows and understand the pain these people are in. He would never punish a person for something they cannot help.
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Post by lisae on Jun 9, 2018 11:25:57 GMT
While I see the point about saying 'committed suicide' carries a stigma, I don't think 'died from mental illness' explains what happened. If I had told my mother that the designer Kate Spade had 'died from mental illness' she would have either asked me what that meant (in other words, how did she die?) or thought that Kate had dementia. I know that Alzheimer's isn't a mental illness, but my mother certainly wouldn't make the distinction.
Personally I think the more frank we are about why people take their own lives, the more understanding and support those with mental illness will receive. The intensity of mental illness is so broad.
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naby64
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Jun 25, 2014 21:44:13 GMT
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Post by naby64 on Jun 9, 2018 12:13:52 GMT
But committed isn't always negative. I'm committed to my marriage. It's an action. When someone mentally ill or not, takes their life, it is an action. Whether they are quite lucid or in the worse depths of hell, they have taken a action that resulted in horrific results.
My grandmother tried to kill herself due to being married to a horrible alcoholic. Sadly she was tired of living that life and saw no other way out. I am thankful she wasn't successful. But she still committed an act.
I guess in my little world I don't see how changing a few words changes anything. I'm very sorry for individuals and families that have to deal with any of this.
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 9:11:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 12:15:43 GMT
I think died from suicide is fine if it's accurate. I agree not all suicides are due to mental illness. A google search brings up many articles talking about why the term "committed suicide" shouldn't be used. Fundamentally the word "commit" is only used for negative acts, for breaking laws or doing something horrible. While killing oneself certainly is horrible, it shouldn't have this language attached to it. I have to disagree with you zella I don't think the word commit is always used as breaking the law or doing something horrible. In different context it has different meanings. You committed a crime - means you carry out or perpetrate a crime. You're committed to do x number of hours per week as a volunteer - you've agreed to carry out some volunteering by pledging your time Committed suicide to me means you've carried out the act of "intentionally causing your own death" which is what suicide actually means. Changing the language isn't going to address the problem of why people decide to do so or address the lack of support for people that find themselves in that state of mind.
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Post by jenjie on Jun 9, 2018 12:53:25 GMT
I’m on my phone so I can’t quote correctly - but earlier you said you are always curious how someone killed themself. That is why it is included in newspapers - people are curious and especially when it’s unexpected. Yes, but I don't think sating that curiosity is the right thing to do when it's a suicide. I agree with that. I read the link posted about Kate Spade. I think it was TMZ? I felt it was very disrespectful to her family. They seemed a little too eager to provide details of how it happened.
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artbabe
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Jun 26, 2014 1:59:10 GMT
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Post by artbabe on Jun 9, 2018 13:19:39 GMT
I almost always agree with Jeremysgirl because we have the same illness and often the same experiences. But I don't agree with her on this one.
I've been bipolar as long as I can remember, even as a child. I tried to kill myself when I was 16 and still have a scar on my wrist. I have dealt with suicidal thoughts until I was around 40 and finally got the right combination of medicine.
I like "killed them self" or "died by suicide" much better than committed suicide. Committed just reminds me of the belief that you are going to hell. It has a very negative meaning to me. Suicide is horrible and obviously bad but I do think a great deal of it comes from mental illness, however, and until you live within that fog you have no understanding of the thought processes and distortion of thought processes involved.
I feel bad for people who kill themselves, I feel horribly sad for the people they leave behind that have to deal with the fallout, but I don't feel negatively about the person, and "committed suicide" just seems to be condemning the person.
But language means different things to different people. A lot of people think it is better to describe my condition as "a person with bipolar disorder". I have no problem saying "I'm bipolar". So your mileage may vary.
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Post by Dixie Lou on Jun 9, 2018 13:39:16 GMT
In my school district we have a class (for teachers staff development) called "Suicide: The Warning Signs." The teacher refers using the term "completed suicide." Someone can try but if they are successful she calls it "completed suicide." It's been a few years since I took that class but she explained it very well.
Anyone who immediately jumps to the belief that someone who has completed suicide is going to hell is flat out JUDGMENTAL. My daughter lost a friend to suicide and she struggled for a long time with the thought that Josh was in hell. She heard that from many people and could not deal with the thought of her friend in hell. I personally think that our God is a loving God and understands the deep pain and that his children (adults too) are not punished for their suffering. i believe He has a bigger problem with judgmental people who are gossiping about a suffering human being.
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Post by welshjenni on Jun 9, 2018 13:41:13 GMT
I think that he word “suicide” just sounds so harsh. Generally speaking anyone who contemplates it is in a very bad place and I have every sympathy for them.
I prefer to say that someone took their own life.
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 9, 2018 13:54:54 GMT
I do not have a problem with the term committed suicide.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jun 9, 2018 14:14:54 GMT
One of my dearest friends committed suicide and that's how his wife describes it. I run a mental health group home, we are both retired RNs and have no problems with the term. Commit means to perform the act and he committed the act of suicide by shooting himself in the head. Not everyone who ends their life has a psychiatric illness. Some have long term depression, some react in the heat of a traumatic event in their lives. I agree with both. Good Morning America just said that over half the people that die by suicide have not been diagnosed with mental illness.
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Post by gryroagain on Jun 9, 2018 14:41:09 GMT
One of my dearest friends committed suicide and that's how his wife describes it. I run a mental health group home, we are both retired RNs and have no problems with the term. Commit means to perform the act and he committed the act of suicide by shooting himself in the head. Not everyone who ends their life has a psychiatric illness. Some have long term depression, some react in the heat of a traumatic event in their lives. I agree with both. Good Morning America just said that over half the people that die by suicide have not been diagnosed with mental illness. Depression is a mental illness though, and not being diagnosed is not the same as a mental illness not being present. I have a hard time believing there are many suicides in mentally fully healthy people.
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jun 9, 2018 14:53:45 GMT
I agree with both. Good Morning America just said that over half the people that die by suicide have not been diagnosed with mental illness. Depression is a mental illness though, and not being diagnosed is not the same as a mental illness not being present. I have a hard time believing there are many suicides in mentally fully healthy people. I was using depression as my example of a mental illness. I know 2 people who took their life in the last 4 years. One was a newly diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic and the other was someone who got caught molesting his niece that afternoon. The first spent time as an inpatient trying to get it under control. The second was probably suffering something just due to the fact he molested his niece. I believe the second shot himself out of embarrassment, guilt. remorse, fear etc. but I am not sure we could "fix" him in the sense of mental health.
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rickmer
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Jul 1, 2014 20:20:18 GMT
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Post by rickmer on Jun 9, 2018 15:09:34 GMT
an 11 year old boy in our community took his own life a couple of weeks ago. my son goes to school with former classmates of his. people want to know what/how it happened and that was information was not shared. i think it's natural to want to know... people want explanations that they can rationalize something that just doesn't make sense.
DS came home from school and told me about his classmate's friend who "committed suicide because he got in a fight with his mom so he took a whole bunch of pills to die". i do not know how the child died. i didn't ask my friend who told me about it, knows the family and attended the memorial with her son.
the conversation i had with my son was about being careful about spreading rumours as truth and how hurtful that could be to his mom. i think unfortunately, in the case of famous people especially, the rumours and speculation can be *worse* for the family left behind as people's imaginations can run rampant.
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Post by melanell on Jun 9, 2018 18:16:43 GMT
Working with old newspapers, I get to see how things used to be worded, and I have more than once seen "Suicide of Mr. Weathers" and then a very graphic description of how he died. Or worse, the headline just reads "Mrs. Hatts dead by __________" with the means of suicide in the headline itself. So I do prefer "committed suicide" with no other details than either of those.
If the person passed away after a long battle with mental illness, then I do think it would be kinder and more truthful to say that. We already say someone passed away after a long battle with cancer or a long history of heart problems. We don't reduce their illness to just the day they died, kwim?
But as other mentioned, that doesn't work for people who opt to take their life without a history of mental illness. I don't know how to word it there.
Ultimately, I try to take my cue from the family members...whatever words they are using are what I will use in their presence if the need arises for me to say anything at all.
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Post by dewryce on Jun 9, 2018 19:11:12 GMT
So many people are saying they don't have a problem with the term and so won't stop using it, which is entirely their right. I guess what I don't understand is that since the experts in this area are saying it is harmful for a group of at risk people, shouldn't that be the priority? Not how we feel about the term, but how it can impact other's mental health and stability?
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 9, 2018 19:31:23 GMT
And I think that "died from mental illness" does that. No judgment, no unnecessary details, just the facts. What do you think? What language do you think we should use? And here's another thing: why with celebrities do we always hear reported the method of death? Is that necessary? I think it's intrusive and unneeded. Again, we don't expect that level of detail with other causes of death. My sister didn't actually die of cancer. She died of overwhelming infection secondary to a lack of immune system caused by chemotherapy. But you wouldn't see that reported in a newspaper. So why is it okay to give details of suicide? A lot to think about here! I don't think people are entitled to the details about someone's death just because they are well known. But... births, marriages and deaths are part of the public realm and we are a curious species. Reporting the details just seems to follow along with the publicity. If someone is on TV all the time and then suddenly they aren't because they died, people want to know what happened. I believe I could live with "died from mental illness" as an answer, but then again, I'm not one who usually reads deeper than the headlines looking for answers why someone felt so depressed. "Committed suicide" is a judgmental term. It's a dissuasive, intending people to realize that they will be harming others as well as themselves if they end their own lives. No matter how good an answer it may be (or seem to be) for the person who does it, the consequences of that act are exceptionally devastating for the survivors. That earns it the judgment.
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artbabe
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Jun 26, 2014 1:59:10 GMT
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Post by artbabe on Jun 9, 2018 19:33:49 GMT
Depression is a mental illness. I firmly believe that most people who kill themselves are suffering from mental illness.
I don’t have to hear voices. I don’t. Never have. I have a severe mental illness. Explaining mental illness to someone who hasn’t had it is damn near impossible.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 9, 2018 19:49:10 GMT
My MIL always said her father died from a nervous breakdown, which I took to mean his death was self induced. My Hubs has no other information but he was brought up to never ask questions. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that as death with dignity has become more accepted in cases of terminal illness, where our loved ones are in great physical pain, are we wrong to exclude emotional pain? I've not been depressed so I have no clue, but from what I read here, the pain equals or surpasses physical pain. To me suffering is suffering. My DD and I agree that if we are dying we each will choose death with dignity over languishing. I think that choosing death with dignity needs to be separated out from suicide. When you can tell those that you love that you are choosing to die now instead of next month after you go through enough pain to kill you, you give them a chance to understand. You can also choose a less terrible way for your body to end up. The horror of finding someone you love hanging from a rope, sealed into a car with a running engine, or lying in their own body parts and fluids is something the mind will never, ever forget. ^^^^^^^ Just a touch too graphic to be on open display.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 9, 2018 20:00:31 GMT
I first became aware of the problem that some people have with the term "committed suicide" earlier this year after eleezybeth posted about it a couple of times. She mentioned that "died by suicide" had been a language recommendation for years. That was the first time I'd heard about it. After that discussion I asked my daughter (who lost a friend to suicide a couple of years ago) about it and she confirmed what Eleezybeth said. Ever since that thread I have been very conscious about my language around this topic. Especially as a new colleague recently lost a family member to suicide. When you are speaking to someone about an individual, it is kinder to phrase it as death by suicide - if you have to mention how they died at all. On a broader scale, though, it is an act that has terrible ramifications on those who are left behind and as it is an act that is subject to being repeated in clusters, the act has earned and continues to earn the harsher attachment of commits to it.
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milocat
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Mar 18, 2015 4:10:31 GMT
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Post by milocat on Jun 9, 2018 21:58:56 GMT
And here's another thing: why with celebrities do we always hear reported the method of death? Is that necessary? I think it's intrusive and unneeded. Again, we don't expect that level of detail with other causes of death. My sister didn't actually die of cancer. She died of overwhelming infection secondary to a lack of immune system caused by chemotherapy. But you wouldn't see that reported in a newspaper. So why is it okay to give details of suicide? I just read this article "When celebrities die by suicide, how much detail should be reported?" www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4698325 I notice the title wasn't committed suicide it was die by. I hope you're doing ok Zella.
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georgiapea
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Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jun 9, 2018 23:07:04 GMT
If I had to tell someone of the suicide of a person we knew I'd say it was a self directed death. I don't like the word suicide and feel "committed suicide" sounds like they committed the crime of suicide.
A friends father delayed going to a Dr about something until it became painful, whereupon the Dr said he wouldn't live 6 months. The man drove immediately to a remote area and shot himself. It was a terrible experience for the family. That was before death with dignity which today he could have opted for.
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