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Post by Skellinton on Jun 17, 2018 5:47:56 GMT
I don’t know if anyone here follows Chris Hardwick or knows who he is, but I am a fan of him from Nerdist stuff and of course Talking Dead. I follow him on Instagram because I love his house and am super jealous of all the amazing horror memorabilia he and his wife have collected. In any event he is the latest person accused of sexual harassment. He has been “scrubbed”from the Nerdist site, AMC has cancelled appearances by him and scheduled shows, and NBC is investigating since he is the host of a tv show for them as well. I get that if what the woman who accused him is telling the truth that all these cancellations are the right thing to do, and I hate his response (he denies the allegations but also accuses her of being unfaithful) but this one kind of reminds me more of the Aziz Anasi story, not by the circumstances, but by the fact that this just sounds like a crappy relationship and not sexual harassment. I have my flame proof suit on, but does it sometimes seem like any woman can make an accusation right now and her word will be taken as gospel truth? I know that people don’t come forward sometimes because they aren’t believed, and that is horrrible, but there have been baseless accusations made. I know there is no right answer, but what do you all think? Here is the link to the article I read about it, I know there are probably more, but I have been out all day and this is the first thing I saw about it. www.nbcnewyork.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Chris-Hardwick-Talk-Show-Pulled-by-AMC-Sexual-Assault-Claims-485749341.html |
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smginaz Suzy
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Jun 17, 2018 6:07:13 GMT
I've followed his career for eons, back to the MTV days and Night of 1000 Corpses, and in his book, he does talk about his very douchey days. There's a lot of room between being a douche and committing sexual assault, and I don't know that any employer is going to be able to strike the right balance between protecting their brand and supporting their employee in cases like this.
I see the difference here as a consensual relationship that was not part of an employment relationship, where the employer had a position of power. But I am also not the victim, and I know that as a fan, I have my evident bias.
I also know that in his case, it doesn't help that I know people who knew him well in his younger days, and he was a dick then. Although that probably holds true for a lot of twenty-ish year old dudes in the general LA area, so there's that.
I hope it's not true because I like his work.
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oaksong
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Jun 27, 2014 6:24:29 GMT
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Post by oaksong on Jun 17, 2018 6:07:33 GMT
I had the same thoughts when I read about this. It’s awful for a woman to tell a story like that and not be believed, but it would also be awful if it weren’t true. The stories that have previously been “tried in the press” about others have had a lot of investigating journalism to back up the public allegations. I hope that the truth will become more apparent in this case.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Jun 17, 2018 13:10:32 GMT
I really hope there is more to it than I read in that article. Basically, she writes serious allegations, didn’t even name him, “let him sexually assault her” (that makes no sense), he yelled at her and she didn’t get the affection she wanted. And he’s suspended from every job he has currently or lined up. WTF?!
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sweetpeasmom
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Post by sweetpeasmom on Jun 17, 2018 13:22:29 GMT
No flaming here. I completely agree. DH showed this article to me last night and we both said the same thing. It is a horrible thing when sexual assault happens. No victim should feel they can't come forward. But we have gotten to the point that every allegation is believed to be true and there is no innocent until proven guilty. It's setting up for a very dangerous culture. Someone gets pissed off and they will be able to make an allegation (true or not) and destroy someone's life.
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Post by annie on Jun 17, 2018 13:42:06 GMT
Definitely reminds me of the Aziz situation, too. (Other than that was a one night "date", and Hardwick had a longtime relationship with this woman.) I think it was a dysfunctional relationship, where he was clearly emotionally abusive, if her version is accurate, and he's a total tool. But I am not sure I get losing all his jobs over it.
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Post by chances on Jun 17, 2018 14:30:50 GMT
I have my flame proof suit on, but does it sometimes seem like any woman can make an accusation right now and her word will be taken as gospel truth? I know that people don’t come forward sometimes because they aren’t believed, and that is horrrible, but there have been baseless accusations made. I know there is no right answer, but what do you all think? No, I don't think so. In my field right now victims are still being intimidated, bullied, paid off when they confront their harassers. The only reason some allegations come to light is because of freedom of information requests where these assholes talk about their behavior freely over email. I think this is the norm for most victims. In entertainment, I also don't think accusers have all the power. Corporations are ridiculously risk adverse and are making similar firing decisions for political speach, jokes, etc. |
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Post by chances on Jun 17, 2018 14:40:47 GMT
I also think as a culture we are figuring out what are acceptable consequences for sexual harassment and assault. I'm reading Roxanne Gay's book, "it could have been worse" which deals with the stigma against people who are raped. In one section a woman talks about how difficult it is to convince women that just because they wore revealing clothes doesn't mean they weren't raped. She says women often victim blame because they want to believe if they just follow a certain set of rules (don't drink, be modest, etc.) they will be safe.
If as a culture we can't decide on the definition of that crime, I think we're really far from agreeing and setting norms on the line between a bad relationship and harassment.
Also, journalism is so scarce on details and clarity. From the article it sounds like he yelled at her. Is that the extent of the allegations?
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Post by heather on Jun 17, 2018 14:40:57 GMT
People he has worked with have come out and said that he’s a horrible person and that these allegations do not surprise them. And there is proof that he did prevent her from getting other jobs.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 17, 2018 14:52:20 GMT
I don’t know him, but have been reading about the allegations with interest. I am firmly in the camp that any and all allegations should be investigated. If he is found to be guilty, then of course there should be repercussions. But not before.
I dislike the idea punishing someone before we have all of the information. I believe that sets a dangerous precedent.
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Post by Skellinton on Jun 17, 2018 14:56:31 GMT
People he has worked with have come out and said that he’s a horrible person and that these allegations do not surprise them. And there is proof that he did prevent her from getting other jobs. I have not seen any of those statements. I seriously didn’t read anything any different then the original link I posted. Everything I read just seems to be a rehash of that. I did see the stuff Patty Hearst (his mother in law) posted accusing the woman of being vindictive, which I don’t think helps or is necessary at all. Do you have links? And is it that he is just a jerk, or do they believe he sexually assaulted her? |
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Post by Skellinton on Jun 17, 2018 14:57:46 GMT
I really appreciate everyone taking the time to comment, many of you are saying exactly what I am thinking and are able to articulate it much better. Thank you!
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Post by mom on Jun 17, 2018 15:38:39 GMT
As a mom of boys, this sort of thing scares me (specifically the guilty verdict before all evidence has been investigated). If there is more to it that includes sexual assault , then yes, he deserves to lose his jobs and career. But what if there isn't more? What if he is being punished just because he was a jerk? That isn't right either.
And for those saying he prevented her from getting jobs? Well that is a very jerk thing to do. But it isn't sexual assault.
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Post by myshelly on Jun 17, 2018 16:18:28 GMT
I’ll put my flame proof suit on with you.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
We have gone too far when one word from one person can destroy and erase a man’s career in one fell swoop without any investigation or proof.
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janeliz
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Post by janeliz on Jun 17, 2018 16:27:13 GMT
I can’t remember specifics, but I remember reading (before Ms. Dykstra’s allegations) that he had a reputation of being an insufferable prick. So it didn’t surprise me to read now that he is, at the very least, a bully.
Is he guilty of any sexual misconduct that warrants the loss of jobs, etc.? I don’t know the answer to that, but I do wonder if the powers that be at Nerdist and AMC may be privy to damaging information that hasn’t yet been reported. I’m sure he has capable legal representation, so I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
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likescarrots
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Post by likescarrots on Jun 17, 2018 16:39:02 GMT
“let him sexually assault her” (that makes no sense), I just want to address this. This is actually very common terminology for women that have been sexually assaulted by their partners or people they have close relationships with. Women often have the notion that if they didn't 'fight back' hard enough or weren't able to stop it from happening, that they 'let it happen'... especially if the situation was not 'violent'. I have seen women be told after telling their story (including a conversation between me and my best friend when we were teenagers) that they were sexually assaulted and they were surprised because they 'let it happen' or didn't fight back, even though the person committing the assault would not take no for an answer. |
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likescarrots
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Post by likescarrots on Jun 17, 2018 16:46:54 GMT
Also wanted to just say this about the situation:
Obviously I was not present when the situation occurred, so I'm not going to say anything about the sexual assault. But to me, I'm perfectly comfortable with him losing his jobs, regardless of whether he committed the assault or not, if he was using his power to have her blacklisted in the industry.
It is NOT ok for a man (or a woman for that matter) to use his power to threaten or ruin a woman's life or career because he had a bad relationship with her or she didn't have sex with him or what ever other reason that implies a woman's only use is to please men in some way and if she doesn't she will have to face some sort of consequences.
And NBC, Nerdist, AMC, etc. are NOT a court of law, there is no innocent until proven guilty when you are a company deciding whether or not to fire an employee.
ETA: For the record, I was actually a huge fan of Chris Hardwick from @midnight, I watched that show every night.
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Post by myshelly on Jun 17, 2018 16:49:04 GMT
Also wanted to just say this about the situation: Obviously I was not present when the situation occurred, so I'm not going to say anything about the sexual assault. But to me, I'm perfectly comfortable with him losing his jobs, regardless of whether he committed the assault or not, if he was using his power to have her blacklisted in the industry. It is NOT ok for a man (or a woman for that matter) to use his power to threaten or ruin a woman's life or career because he had a bad relationship with her or she didn't have sex with him or what ever other reason that implies a woman's only use is to please men in some way and if she doesn't she will have to face some sort of consequences. And NBC, Nerdist, AMC, etc. are NOT a court of law, there is no innocent until proven guilty when you are a company deciding whether or not to fire an employee. No there’s not and I take issue with that. American labor laws and employment laws suck. |
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by likescarrots on Jun 17, 2018 16:50:46 GMT
As a mom of boys, this sort of thing scares me (specifically the guilty verdict before all evidence has been investigated). If there is more to it that includes sexual assault , then yes, he deserves to lose his jobs and career. But what if there isn't more? What if he is being punished just because he was a jerk? That isn't right either. And for those saying he prevented her from getting jobs? Well that is a very jerk thing to do. But it isn't sexual assault. I feel really sad for your sons, or more importantly women that have to deal with your sons, that your baseline is 'being a jerk or wielding your power to control women is OK, just don't rape them'. |
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Post by myshelly on Jun 17, 2018 17:05:07 GMT
As a mom of boys, this sort of thing scares me (specifically the guilty verdict before all evidence has been investigated). If there is more to it that includes sexual assault , then yes, he deserves to lose his jobs and career. But what if there isn't more? What if he is being punished just because he was a jerk? That isn't right either. And for those saying he prevented her from getting jobs? Well that is a very jerk thing to do. But it isn't sexual assault. I feel really sad for your sons, or more importantly women that have to deal with your sons, that your baseline is 'being a jerk or wielding your power to control women is OK, just don't rape them'. You’re being ridiculous. She didn’t say or even imply that it’s ok. She said it’s not assault. Which is absolutely true. |
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by likescarrots on Jun 17, 2018 17:08:55 GMT
I feel really sad for your sons, or more importantly women that have to deal with your sons, that your baseline is 'being a jerk or wielding your power to control women is OK, just don't rape them'. You’re being ridiculous. She didn’t say or even imply that it’s ok. She said it’s not assault. Which is absolutely true. She LITERALLY said that, let me break it down for you: 1. What if he is being punished just because he was a jerk? That isn't right either. [Being a jerk is OK. You shouldn't lose your job for it]. 2. And for those saying he prevented her from getting jobs? Well that is a very jerk thing to do. [See point 1.] |
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Post by myshelly on Jun 17, 2018 17:13:03 GMT
You’re being ridiculous. She didn’t say or even imply that it’s ok. She said it’s not assault. Which is absolutely true. She LITERALLY said that, let me break it down for you: 1. What if he is being punished just because he was a jerk? That isn't right either. [Being a jerk is OK. You shouldn't lose your job for it]. 2. And for those saying he prevented her from getting jobs? Well that is a very jerk thing to do. [See point 1.] No, she did not literally say “it’s ok”. Maybe you don’t know what literally means. She said maybe he shouldn’t be punished for it the same way he should for assault. She said it’s not assault. That’s true, it’s not assault. She said if that’s true he’s a jerk. If that’s true it’s a jerky thing to do. I don’t understand why you think that means the same thing as it’s ok. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 17, 2018 18:20:29 GMT
Also wanted to just say this about the situation: Obviously I was not present when the situation occurred, so I'm not going to say anything about the sexual assault. But to me, I'm perfectly comfortable with him losing his jobs, regardless of whether he committed the assault or not, if he was using his power to have her blacklisted in the industry. It is NOT ok for a man (or a woman for that matter) to use his power to threaten or ruin a woman's life or career because he had a bad relationship with her or she didn't have sex with him or what ever other reason that implies a woman's only use is to please men in some way and if she doesn't she will have to face some sort of consequences. And NBC, Nerdist, AMC, etc. are NOT a court of law, there is no innocent until proven guilty when you are a company deciding whether or not to fire an employee. ETA: For the record, I was actually a huge fan of Chris Hardwick from @midnight, I watched that show every night. If he had her blacklisted, I would be fine with him losing his job as well. I don’t like or approve of controlling others in this way. My only point is that before we ruin someone’s life, we need to be sure that the allegations are true. And they may very well be true. But right now, only 2 people know the truth for sure. There may be a pattern of abuse with other women, and that is important to learn too. |
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Jun 17, 2018 18:36:29 GMT
I know someone who was in the BDSM scene in the early 2000's and apparently it was well known that he would be seen at BDSM Dungeons and such.
If that's what he's into, a lot of what she described sounds like a BDSM relationship that she would have entered into willingly.
My first thought when I read the article was it sounded like Aziz Ansari as well. Sometimes a crappy relationship is a crappy relationship. And maybe he is a jerk. I don't know. But considering that all of this is based on an op-ed by this girl where she makes all sorts of accusations and doesn't name names, it all seems off to me at this point.
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JustTricia
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Post by JustTricia on Jun 17, 2018 18:58:01 GMT
She may not have named names, but she sure as hell made it clear who she was discussing.
I’m reserving judgment on anything else until there’s an investigation. She (and the guy who I believe is her current boyfriend) said she has video and audio proof. But being an asshole in a relationship isn’t a crime. Sexually assault of course is, but again, I’m waiting for the investigation results.
Hardwick and Nerdist has already parted ways before this. His contract had ended in December. Don’t hold these allegations against Nerdist.
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Post by elaine on Jun 17, 2018 19:21:55 GMT
Also wanted to just say this about the situation: Obviously I was not present when the situation occurred, so I'm not going to say anything about the sexual assault. But to me, I'm perfectly comfortable with him losing his jobs, regardless of whether he committed the assault or not, if he was using his power to have her blacklisted in the industry. It is NOT ok for a man (or a woman for that matter) to use his power to threaten or ruin a woman's life or career because he had a bad relationship with her or she didn't have sex with him or what ever other reason that implies a woman's only use is to please men in some way and if she doesn't she will have to face some sort of consequences. And NBC, Nerdist, AMC, etc. are NOT a court of law, there is no innocent until proven guilty when you are a company deciding whether or not to fire an employee. ETA: For the record, I was actually a huge fan of Chris Hardwick from @midnight, I watched that show every night. If he had her blacklisted, I would be fine with him losing his job as well. I don’t like or approve of controlling others in this way. My only point is that before we ruin someone’s life, we need to be sure that the allegations are true. And they may very well be true. But right now, only 2 people know the truth for sure. There may be a pattern of abuse with other women, and that is important to learn too. I guess that I would want to add that NBC and AMC may well have more information than simply what is discussed in the one piece. Just like there ended up being more and more revealed with time - after his firing from NBC - about Matt Lauer and his escapades. |
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Post by mom on Jun 17, 2018 19:44:06 GMT
As a mom of boys, this sort of thing scares me (specifically the guilty verdict before all evidence has been investigated). If there is more to it that includes sexual assault , then yes, he deserves to lose his jobs and career. But what if there isn't more? What if he is being punished just because he was a jerk? That isn't right either. And for those saying he prevented her from getting jobs? Well that is a very jerk thing to do. But it isn't sexual assault. I feel really sad for your sons, or more importantly women that have to deal with your sons, that your baseline is 'being a jerk or wielding your power to control women is OK, just don't rape them'. I’m ok with that. I, nor they, need your approval in their lives. I am absolutely proud of the way I have raised my men to treat women (and other men) and how to conduct themselves. |
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Post by malibou on Jun 17, 2018 20:01:22 GMT
I know someone who was in the BDSM scene in the early 2000's and apparently it was well known that he would be seen at BDSM Dungeons and such. If that's what he's into, a lot of what she described sounds like a BDSM relationship that she would have entered into willingly. M I heard that too thru a friend that was pretty hardcore into it. He always emphasized that it was consensual. Relaying it to someone unaware of that sexual predilection, it's going to sound bad. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 17, 2018 20:18:45 GMT
If he had her blacklisted, I would be fine with him losing his job as well. I don’t like or approve of controlling others in this way. My only point is that before we ruin someone’s life, we need to be sure that the allegations are true. And they may very well be true. But right now, only 2 people know the truth for sure. There may be a pattern of abuse with other women, and that is important to learn too. I guess that I would want to add that NBC and AMC may well have more information than simply what is discussed in the one piece. Just like there ended up being more and more revealed with time - after his firing from NBC - about Matt Lauer and his escapades. That may well be true, and it is good that he is stepping aside while the allegations are being investigated. I feel conflicted about this; on one hand, I am happy that abusers are being called out and penalized. On the other hand, I am wary of trial by media and all of the repercussions that might happen as a result. Elaine, hope that all is going well.  |
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Post by Night Owl on Jun 17, 2018 20:25:05 GMT
I agree that some of the awkward date/bad boyfriend stories seem to dilute the #metoo movement. But if he blacklisted her from getting jobs that is definitely wrong.
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