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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 20, 2018 22:56:33 GMT
My non binary teen is on the swim team. They wear a binder. What a binder is.
They have swam at several practices, with the binder on, no negative feedback from the coach. Medically, it is safe to wear a binder while swimming and playing sports. The coach is now questioning whether my child is allowed to wear a binder to swim meets & competitions. Please help me word a clear letter to state that it is medically safe to swim in a binder, and that it would be discriminatory to deny my LGBTQ non binary teen to wear a binder during swim meets. Thank you to any and all that can help. |
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Post by Pahina722 on Dec 20, 2018 23:00:56 GMT
I THINK the coach is questioning whether competition rules will allow it. Have you asked for clarification?
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,752
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Dec 20, 2018 23:02:32 GMT
I THINK the coach is questioning whether competition rules will allow it. Have you asked for clarification? I would guess this as well. If that’s the case, the letter needs to go the competition officials. |
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Post by flanz on Dec 20, 2018 23:03:32 GMT
Congratulations on being an awesome mom and strong support system for your non-binary kiddo!! Sooo many kids have no parental support, and are harmed by their parents reactions to their true gender identities. You're already doing a great job.
I think the wording you used in your post is very good already, with the grammatical correction of this part slightly (I've corrected):
"It is medically safe to swim in a binder, and I (or we, if you're writing from both parents) feel it would be discriminatory to deny my/our LGBTQ non-binary teen the right to wear a binder during swim meets."
Good luck!
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 8:02:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 23:09:32 GMT
Your child my not be able to at meets due to rules and regulations, not because of discrimination or safety.
Has your teen thought about speedo one piece suits or the long leg (look like bike shorts) that also go with the tank top?
Those are allowed around here.
Can I ask why your teen needs to wear that top during meets?
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Post by *Shannon on Dec 20, 2018 23:14:15 GMT
LLL - Not help with a letter at this point, but hopefully helping to think things through.... my first thought is that swim attire is usually strictly dictated in competition by officials. I do not know if what is allowed is different depending on whether the swimmer is on a boys team or a girls team. What type of team are they on? Boys/Girls/Co-Ed? If their binder fits well under a one piece full body suit (assuming a full body suit is allowed for both boys and girls) I don't see that the coach could have an issue. I guess the issue comes in if they are on a boys team and their attire is more of the Speedo variety. Maybe after I understand more details I might could offer some suggestions.
P.S. When I say full body suit, I mean the type that covers the torso, arms (short sleeve) and part of the legs (like shorts).
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Post by christine58 on Dec 20, 2018 23:35:09 GMT
The coach is now questioning whether my child is allowed to wear a binder to swim meets & competitions. It's probably not the coach questioning you....I am going to bet it has to do with whoever oversees the meets and competitions. Talk to the coach first. |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 20, 2018 23:41:26 GMT
Your child my not be able to at meets due to rules and regulations, not because of discrimination or safety. Has your teen thought about speedo one piece suits or the long leg (look like bike shorts) that also go with the tank top? Those are allowed around here. Can I ask why your teen needs to wear that top during meets? My teen years the binder under the one piece Speedo swimsuit. They wear a binder any time they are out in public to achieve the look of a flat chest. |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 20, 2018 23:44:00 GMT
LLL - Not help with a letter at this point, but hopefully helping to think things through.... my first thought is that swim attire is usually strictly dictated in competition by officials. I do not know if what is allowed is different depending on whether the swimmer is on a boys team or a girls team. What type of team are they on? Boys/Girls/Co-Ed? If their binder fits well under a one piece full body suit (assuming a full body suit is allowed for both boys and girls) I don't see that the coach could have an issue. I guess the issue comes in if they are on a boys team and their attire is more of the Speedo variety. Maybe after I understand more details I might could offer some suggestions. P.S. When I say full body suit, I mean the type that covers the torso, arms (short sleeve) and part of the legs (like shorts). They are on a co-ed team. They wear the half tank binder under the one piece female swimsuit. |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 20, 2018 23:45:41 GMT
Congratulations on being an awesome mom and strong support system for your non-binary kiddo!! Sooo many kids have no parental support, and are harmed by their parents reactions to their true gender identities. You're already doing a great job. I think the wording you used in your post is very good already, with the grammatical correction of this part slightly (I've corrected): "It is medically safe to swim in a binder, and I (or we, if you're writing from both parents) feel it would be discriminatory to deny my/our LGBTQ non-binary teen the right to wear a binder during swim meets." Good luck! Thanks so much! |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 20, 2018 23:49:09 GMT
With those who say it is the officials that would question, and not the coach, you are correct. The coach has had no qualms with my teen wearing a binder to swim practices.
Does anyone know why there would be a rule against ftm transitioning devices?
I do know that there is an alternative swimsuit for Muslim swimmers to prevent discrimination towards them, as there should be.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 8:02:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 0:15:10 GMT
With those who say it is the officials that would question, and not the coach, you are correct. The coach has had no qualms with my teen wearing a binder to swim practices. Does anyone know why there would be a rule against ftm transitioning devices? I do know that there is an alternative swimsuit for Muslim swimmers to prevent discrimination towards them, as there should be. The only thing I can think of is the device, flattening them, could make the swimmer more streamlined which could make them slicker and faster in the water. Males typically shave so their skin is slicker. You would have to look in the rule book under the league your teen swims in to see what, if anything, it says about added attire and alternative swimwear. |
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Post by *Shannon on Dec 21, 2018 0:43:14 GMT
I don't think there would be a rule RE mtf transitions devices. I think the concern would be if any device/material/whatever could possibly give the swimmer an advantage. I personally don't see how a binder would be an advantage. If anything, it might hinder them a little - constriction of movement, added bulk, etc. With a co-ed team chest sizes and shapes are going to vary wildly, so I don't think creating a more flat-chested silhouette would be a problem, but then again... maybe that is the problem your teen's coach is afraid of.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by MerryMom on Dec 21, 2018 0:51:29 GMT
If this is for a swim team related to a middle or high school team, the matter would be decided by the high school sports association in your state. Your letter should go there, request a ruling that your child is permitted to wear it. The letter authorizing it would need to be presented at each meet. If the team is with a swim “club”, then the decision is up to each meet’s head official or meet director. Get the schedule and name of director and send the request permission. What shouldn’t happen is to expect the meet director or head official to make the decision in five minutes, the day of the race ETA you might to call or email the NFHS.org here’s the link to latest uniform rule www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/swimming-and-diving-uniform-rules/ I think the concern might be the aiding buoyancy issue or adding to body compression per article 4. That provides a competitive advantage. I think the route would be requesting accommodation. |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 21, 2018 1:04:24 GMT
If this is for a swim team related to a middle or high school team, the matter would be decided by the high school sports association in your state. Your letter should go there, request a ruling that your child is permitted to wear it. The letter authorizing it would need to be presented at each meet. If the team is with a swim “club”, then the decision is up yo each meet’s head official or meet director. Get the schedule and name of director and send the request permission. What shouldn’t happen is to expect the meet director or head official to make the decision in five minutes, the day of the race It is a public high school. The issue has only been broached just this evening. The coach is looking into whether or not they will be allowed to wear a binder. I just want to be prepared. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 21, 2018 1:55:18 GMT
It may help to provide some background on why this may be an issue completely separate from LGBTQ. There is quantifiable advantages to various swimwear in a competition. As technology has improved, the advantage proved to be so dramatic that the various swim bodies all agreed on standardizing what is acceptable for different competitions. Our high school (and I'm quite sure the vast majority of all high schools) adhere to the FINA standards of approved swimwear. If it is not FINA approved it does not go on the swimmer period. There have been two different instances where this has been an issues that I'm aware of in our region. One was a girl who preferred to wear a boy style jammer swimsuit under her tank suit for summer swim league. In our summer swim league non-tech suits are NOT allowed (most girl/women tech suits are knee length and that style is FASTER than a traditional girl's tank suit). The rules clearly state that a girl's suit is not allowed to extend to the knee. She was not allowed to wear a boy's jammer (which would extend her suit to the knee) at our county level meet despite extensive lobbying by her parents. The other issue was a high school swimmer who wanted to wear a knee brace during an injury. Despite having a verified injury, he was not allowed to wear a brace during our state meet as absolutely no non-FINA approved swimwear is allowed.
I completely and totally understand your desire to support your child, I'm trying to provide some background on why I would anticipate issues. I'll also say that as compression is absolutely an advantage the fact that this device provides additional compression will probably make it very difficult to overturn - particularly if they are competitive and people are looking for reasons to disqualify them.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 21, 2018 2:03:23 GMT
I'll also add - tech suits are extremely tight - much tighter than your typical practice suit. Your teen may find that the compression achieved from a FINA approved tech suit is greater than their binder. Just something to consider, although the expense of a tech suit for every dual meet would be a PITA, it may be an easier solution within the framework of the existing high school rules.
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Post by christine58 on Dec 21, 2018 2:17:02 GMT
The issue has only been broached just this evening. The coach is looking into whether or not they will be allowed to wear a binder. I just want to be prepared. He might just be being proactive so that they don't get to a meet and have an issue. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 21, 2018 18:53:39 GMT
I had another thought this morning. You might have your teen try an aquablade at least two sizes too small. It's still a traditional tank suit and less expensive than a tech suit. It will provide good compression. My son wore it two sizes smaller than his practice suit (the male version obviously). I know several of the girls wear them even smaller for the extra compression. www.swimoutlet.com/p/speedo-aquablade-female-recordbreaker-tech-suit-swimsuit-1400/?color=9343 |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Dec 21, 2018 19:06:51 GMT
Can I ask a question (respectfully)? What is a non-binary teen? A teen who does not identify as male or female? The binder seems to be something either male or female swimmers could wear - so unless it gave the swimmer an advantage, I do not understand what it is used for...
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Post by brina on Dec 22, 2018 4:02:01 GMT
Your child my not be able to at meets due to rules and regulations, not because of discrimination or safety. Has your teen thought about speedo one piece suits or the long leg (look like bike shorts) that also go with the tank top? Those are allowed around here. Can I ask why your teen needs to wear that top during meets? My teen years the binder under the one piece Speedo swimsuit. They wear a binder any time they are out in public to achieve the look of a flat chest. I was a swimming official for many years. I can tell you what the rules say: a swimmer is allowed to wear one suit, with no additional layers. This is to prevent kids from gaining advantage by wearing multiple levels of compression. There are many girls who want to wear a regular, speedo style suit ounder their lazer, or similar, completion suit. This is not allowed. I realize your child's reason for wearing a binder is different, but it still in violation of the USA Swimming rules. I know there are exceptions that are made due to disabilities, so it is possible that an exception can be made in this case as well. However, I can understand the coach wanting to have this clarified and squared away before dealing with it in a competition. i stopped officiating two years ago, so would check whether the rules about this have changed, or whether a ruling or interpretation of the rule has been made based upon a similar situation. |
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