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Post by betty on Jan 26, 2019 16:45:17 GMT
It's as if the I hear as "I like chocolate ice cream," is heard by others as "I want to murder innocent women and children!!!!!!!" (Ice cream chosen here because the last I checked, it was not headline news.) Just skimming thru some of this thread and I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that you don't know about the big CNN 2 Scoops scandal. Ice cream is indeed headline news when it comes to President Trump!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 26, 2019 16:51:29 GMT
As someone who would be classified as quite liberal, comments like these are a big part of the problem. “Mom26 did not get her panties in a twist and did not stomp off. I have read up to this post that I am quoting and she did nothing but state her responses, examples, and opinions and why she has them. Those on the other side refuted them, asked for clarification, requested others examples also, etc, etc. That is completely acceptable and is what discussion is about. However to be a little exasperated and disengage from the conversation, knowing that it is just going to to around and around is by no means getting your panties in a twist and stomping off. And classifying it as such does absolutely nothing to help the divisiveness and in turn looks like maybe you have your panties in a twist also. For full disclosure: I am a liberal, I lean to the left, I am an independent, I am agnostic at best but probably more of an atheist who has no problem with religion, I absolutely can not stand Trump, I am non-confrontational, I am pro choice, I am for gay marriage, I am against discrimination, and I voted for a Republican governor in my state over the democrat, who consequently was the first transgender person running for governor. not because I was discriminating against her but because I thought her opponent would do a better job. That's not what happened. No, she was the one who asked for examples. And then left when she was given them. IOP she did get her panties in a twist and left. ❤️ Thank you. I truly felt what I posted.
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smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,303
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
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Post by smcast on Jan 26, 2019 17:01:28 GMT
This is at least the third time I’m specifically asking you this: ideologically, what characterizes the “radical left”? I haven’t gotten any answer before, so if any of the 11 of you who LIKEd this stance is willing, I would appreciate learning what you considered “radical left” to mean when you agreed with it. I’m honestly curious - and this is not the only poster here I have asked this question of who hasn’t replied. (Carp, that was a radically bad sentence.) I’ve asked it of at least four people here and none has ever replied. I’ve also asked what people mean when they write that the Democratic Party has moved alarmingly Left - and also not received any reply. (Note: normally wouldn’t interrupt a thread like this, but I am mystified why this continues to be a claim without explanation, so thought I’d try here. Full disclosure, I have more than once written here about my beliefs about the history and progression of Rightward movement in the Republican Party since the 1970s, but again: wrong thread for that. I just wanted to establish that I am personally willing to explain my own claims about shifting political ideology.) Don't hold your breath waiting for an explanation. People who believe this stuff are incapable of putting together an actual well reasoned out justification for their opinions. Very insulting! "Those" people don't owe you or anyone else an explanation.
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Post by elaine on Jan 26, 2019 17:11:06 GMT
You’re on fire today, Amelia Bloomer! Heh. Thanks? Sorry? Blame my fiery, unleashed, untethered, unanchored B-cups. I know that there was a reason I was begging for them to reduce and reconstruct me at a B-cup (still not there yet)! I want to be as eloquent and astute as you are this morning (and most days).
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 26, 2019 17:11:16 GMT
Mags hats are the current version of the confederate flag. In your opinion, but not in the opinion of a lot of people who wear those hats. There is an enormous difference there between what you think people stand for and what they actually do stand for. The confederate flag was created in the 1860's as a symbol of division. The Make America Great Again hats were created in the 2016's as a symbol of unity. Whether you see it that way or not, please understand that there are millions of your fellow Americans who do. I know I am late, but no way. Those hats were never meant to be a symbol of unity and if they had, the people wearing them now would not be wearing them. Everything about those hats is to piss off those damn snowflake dems and they like that it does. There are plenty of right leaning Republicans who would never wear a MAGA hat because it does not represent their beliefs.
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 26, 2019 17:14:49 GMT
Maybe someone already addressed this, but if Trump and Republicans want a wall so much, why didn’t they do it when they had the House? Honest question; I don’t know the answer. because they know it is a clusterfuck and don't want to admit it. This way they can blame the Democrats and accuse them of being soft on immigration when the election rolls around
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Post by elaine on Jan 26, 2019 17:23:33 GMT
In your opinion, but not in the opinion of a lot of people who wear those hats. There is an enormous difference there between what you think people stand for and what they actually do stand for. The confederate flag was created in the 1860's as a symbol of division. The Make America Great Again hats were created in the 2016's as a symbol of unity. Whether you see it that way or not, please understand that there are millions of your fellow Americans who do. I know I am late, but no way. Those hats were never meant to be a symbol of unity and if they had, the people wearing them now would not be wearing them. Everything about those hats is to piss off those damn snowflake dems and they like that it does. There are plenty of right leaning Republicans who would never wear a MAGA hat because it does not represent their beliefs. Yes! By the logic you are responding to, Pussy hats are a much stronger symbol of unity. I have yet to see Trump, Melanie, or any GOP leaders wearing one of those. I think that much more accurately is to say that BOTH hats are worn to express unity with only part of this society. I find it naive/blindly ignorant to claim that either of those hats were ever created to express or promote unity amongst Americans of all colors, genders, sexual orientation and identity, or political leanings.
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Post by gar on Jan 26, 2019 17:25:02 GMT
"Those" people don't owe you or anyone else an explanation. No, they don't 'owe' it but isn't it reasonable to expect someone to be able to (or to want to) further discuss what they've put forward as an argument or their opinion, to be able to expand on their thoughts, to add their reasoning etc?
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Post by Merge on Jan 26, 2019 17:54:09 GMT
"Those" people don't owe you or anyone else an explanation. No, they don't 'owe' it but isn't it reasonable to expect someone to be able to (or to want to) further discuss what they've put forward as an argument or their opinion, to be able to expand on their thoughts, to add their reasoning etc? What we've been told here repeatedly, when the "mean liberals" accusations start flying, is that they want to just have everyone state their opinions without anyone else disagreeing or questioning.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 26, 2019 17:59:22 GMT
No, they don't 'owe' it but isn't it reasonable to expect someone to be able to (or to want to) further discuss what they've put forward as an argument or their opinion, to be able to expand on their thoughts, to add their reasoning etc? What we've been told here repeatedly, when the "mean liberals" accusations start flying, is that they want to just have everyone state their opinions without anyone else disagreeing or questioning. The republican/conservatives just seem to want to say "because I said so" and have it be at that and that only---that we are to take it as 100% truth and fact. Done deal. period. Never question, blindly follow and agree.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 26, 2019 18:10:25 GMT
Right back at ya! You absolutely refuse—after YOU ASKED—to see the truth that your liberal counterparts have provided. They WERE NOT attacks towards nor were they “hate” as you’ve labeled it. They are real, bonafide facts and a Then you got your panties in a twist and stomped off declaring us deaf—no one has disputed the examples you’ve given, they answered YOUR question with examples in return.
Heed your own advice—“if you’re not hearing it, then it’s simply not registering being wrong to you. Which means you agree with it.”As someone who would be classified as quite liberal, comments like these are a big part of the problem. Mom26 did not get her panties in a twist and did not stomp off. I have read up to this post that I am quoting and she did nothing but state her responses, examples, and opinions and why she has them. Those on the other side refuted them, asked for clarification, requested others examples also, etc, etc. That is completely acceptable and is what discussion is about. However to be a little exasperated and disengage from the conversation, knowing that it is just going to go around and around is by no means getting your panties in a twist and stomping off. And classifying it as such does absolutely nothing to help the divisiveness and in turn looks like maybe you have your panties in a twist also. For full disclosure: I am a liberal, I lean to the left, I am an independent, I am agnostic at best but probably more of an atheist who has no problem with religion, I absolutely can not stand Trump, I am non-confrontational, I am pro choice, I am for gay marriage, I am against discrimination, and I voted for a Republican governor in my state over the democrat, who consequently was the first transgender person running for governor. And not because I was discriminating against her but because I thought her opponent would do a better job. I'm going to beg to differ. And thank you for singling me out as "part of the problem" when in fact I was responding to the comments that the OP made herself. You don't see comments as part of the problem??? WOW.
She did NOT just "do nothing" try going back and reading again.
1. she herself stated on the thread that "she was out" and done after someone else responded to her post in which she did not like the response.
2. Her opening statements about the "radical left is ruining this country" as well as her other inflammatory statements directed at liberals.
3. then, she DID ask for examples. so they were given.
I went back to read the entire thread to see if I missed something or if I did not read what I thought that I had read. Nope, it's all there. Her words.
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Post by gar on Jan 26, 2019 18:13:03 GMT
No, they don't 'owe' it but isn't it reasonable to expect someone to be able to (or to want to) further discuss what they've put forward as an argument or their opinion, to be able to expand on their thoughts, to add their reasoning etc? What we've been told here repeatedly, when the "mean liberals" accusations start flying, is that they want to just have everyone state their opinions without anyone else disagreeing or questioning. Mmm, true. The problem with that is that it makes it seem that they can't back up their ideas or explore it any deeper or perhaps haven't thought through what they've said beyond the bald statement and that it doesn't stand up to questioning. Oh well
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smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,303
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
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Post by smcast on Jan 26, 2019 18:31:10 GMT
gar sure, that's reasonable. @anmore had already answered the OP and stated she didn't want to discuss her stance further.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 26, 2019 18:41:03 GMT
Don't hold your breath waiting for an explanation. People who believe this stuff are incapable of putting together an actual well reasoned out justification for their opinions. Very insulting! "Those" people don't owe you or anyone else an explanation. But that's NOT how public message boards work.. You don't get to put forth your opinion and have be "The End" without challenge. If you want that, start a blog. Of course you don't "owe" anyone an explanation, but its not really in the spirit of what a message board is, either.
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Post by gar on Jan 26, 2019 19:27:26 GMT
gar sure, that's reasonable. @anmore had already answered the OP and stated she didn't want to discuss her stance further. It’s good to see that you think that’s reasonable.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 26, 2019 19:43:47 GMT
I know that there was a reason I was begging for them to reduce and reconstruct me at a B-cup (still not there yet)! I want to be as eloquent and astute as you are this morning (and most days). It’s cause I’m unshackled. Frees the mind. I hope you convince them to B-ify you. Sadly, I have recently bought a couple C bras and it saddens me no end. If there was ever a reason to lose those ten pounds...
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 26, 2019 19:49:23 GMT
Very insulting! "Those" people don't owe you or anyone else an explanation. Jeepers. I know you’re also talking “tone” here, but it’s in the context of my request for explanation. I have read my post several times and I was definitely not demanding anything. I was confused that I never get an answer. Like others, I’m puzzled by a stance on a message board to ignore requests or to answer with charges of “demands.” I demanded nothing. Nobody owes me. I appreciate the answers from mom26 and leftturnonly and someone who PMed me. Can we please stop mischaracterizing this?
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 26, 2019 19:55:25 GMT
I know that there was a reason I was begging for them to reduce and reconstruct me at a B-cup (still not there yet)! I want to be as eloquent and astute as you are this morning (and most days). It’s cause I’m unshackled. Frees the mind. I hope you convince them to B-ify you. Sadly, I have recently bought a couple C bras and it saddens me no end. If there was ever a reason to lose those ten pounds... I didn't want to respond to this thread, being solidly left-leaning and not wanting to get into political debates on a thread for conservative Refupeas. But I'm just too amused/delighted that a political thread devolved into bra/boob chat. As happens here.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 26, 2019 20:24:00 GMT
4.75/5 stars. It would get the full 5 if it was a v-neck. - "A moment of instant attraction, when you see that shirt from across the room and know, somehow, it should be your own." - Lefty 2. So, if I understand, you’re equating radicalism with being reactionary. Interesting yet confusing. ‘Cause we can’t make a semantic change like that. No, as annoyingly pedantic as I know I can be, I think lots of folks would agree nobody can say “Sez YOU!” back to what I just claimed. I shall, of course, explain at greaaaaaaat length. The word “radical,” of course (!), can be be applied to a lot of things, but when it’s paired with “liberalism” or “leftist” (Lordy, I hate that word) or “conservative,” it is explicitly describing political ideology. Political theory. Political parties. Policy platforms. Can we just decide that, instead, it now means, “ Wow, those Democrats, right? Every last one of them has become a radical. Such radical, extreme, rude perspectives. Such unfathomable interpretations. Such radical listening?” ? Radical with reactionary. No, I did not comingle the two. A reaction occurs after an action. Reactions may be repeated and a new pattern of behavior may emerge in a habitual form. You touch a hot burner on the stove and pull your hand away, that's a reaction. You may do that once, you may do that several times, but eventually you make a point to not touch a hot burner on the stove. That's Reactionary Behavior. I just Googled reactionary behavior and the first thing to pop up was Merriam-Webster's definition of reactionary - "relating to, marked by, or favoring reaction --- especially: ultraconservative in politics" ------- Guess the entire "left" (same shorthand as before) is free from this charge then. <Don't look at me. I didn't add that meaning to the dictionary!> You may mean Reactive Behavior, where you react to life's events and not try to take proactive action to direct how your life will go? That doesn't apply to my thoughts either. To be radicalized is to have adopted radical positions on political or social issues, therefore Radicalized Behavior would be behavior that was based on a radical political or social ideal. This is exactly what I meant. The radical idea here is that heinous behavior may be meted out to a huge population of fellow Americans "because Trump". Because Donald Trump was elected and legally seated as the President of the United States, anyone who is so much as suspected of having one iota of unity with ANY of the agenda of this administration is fair game. The old rules do not apply. Innocent until proven guilty? - Hell to the no. You wear a hat, A MAGA HAT for God's sake!!!!, and you have proven yourself as one who could very well wear a NAZI armband at home or pick up several semi-automatic rifles and go shoot up a school. You want border security now, as you have wanted since long before the Democrat politicians jumped on and then off the bandwagon. You are a RACIST!!!! You don't care about children. You don't care about people with brown skin. You are the scum of the earth, lower than a snake's belly. You want a health care system that works? That is sustainable? - You want people to suffer and die! You only care about the rich. Again, you are RACIST! and probably also HOMOPHOBIC!. You NEVER, EVER, EVER disclose who you voted for in the last presidential election. People surmise how you voted based on your general, publicly stated political views, but you NEVER publicly support one candidate and you NEVER try to defend Trump - you are personally responsible for Trump being elected and you may be called every foul name in the book without apology. In the case of the school, in that public school, it is A-OK acceptable to deride the POTUS. It is absolutely fine to denigrate anyone you suspect may remotely be inclined to want any single part of this administration to succeed. How anyone attending that meeting of school personnel knew that the parents of the student they were discussing had come to be at a Trump rally is anyone's guess. If you let your mind wander, you can veer off into some pretty creepy territory all too easily, so best just to stipulate that the knowledge came by innocent means. The conclusion that this is what was creating the problem with the student is chilling. For all the talk that I have been subjected to of how comparative I (because Trump...) am to a NAZI under Hitler, the true comparison would be better found in a mirror. If you substituted the fact that the parents had sat at the front row of a Trump rally with "and the parents are Jewish," this is how that conversation would have sounded: "We are here to discuss the problems we are seeing with little Johnny in the classroom." "His parents are Jewish." Nods of agreement all around the table that this is the problem, or at least part of the problem. That most certainly is a radical position to the left. It is the very definition of one. Moreover, it is the reality of the denigration a great many of us must face if we reveal that we are conservative politically. Go back to November 8-10, 2016 and reread any social media, any news media, any correspondence with friends and acquaintances. And then read any from today. Listen to any late night talk show, any awards show.... really, the list is endless. And I am telling you, personally, as well as you, generally - It is not OK. I'm going to also assume here that you did not specifically include me in "Wow, those Democrats, right? They're getting so radical. Such radical, extreme, rude perspectives. Such unfathomable interpretations. Such radical, disordered listening?" even though this was part of your response to my explanation that specifically stated that if I interpreted or heard things the same way, I may come to the same conclusions. But, I do not hear or interpret things the same way. I don't know why. I do know that ever since I was a child, I, by nature, tend to hear or see both sides of a problem or argument. I'm the child grown into adult who throws the monkeywrench into set group beliefs. It's why nether the Catholic nor LDS Church would not want me to wish to convert, nor why any political party would be entirely happy with me. I agree with this, this, this, this, and this, but think they are entirely wrong about that. And so maybe you can begin to see how really shallow I see the reasoning is behind the application of such despise (because Trump...). The application of the denigration is done with hate. These are hate acts, and they are wildly popular. Do not even try to counter (general you here) with ... "How do you explain what the "right" (shorthand again) whatever it is," or any other comparison, for the simple reason that that is not being addressed in my posts. My posts have been focused in response to the question that you asked; "What characterizes the 'radical left'?" "Rainbow's big Neener-Neener-Walkaway campaign" - you have personalized a group to someone on this board whom you don't respect. That's not rational. Of course there are people who stopped being on board with the Democratic Party. Some of them took to social media and used the same hash tag. Big F'n deal. So.much.drama over other people's beliefs. To quote a present day poet, "I ain't got time for that, yo." "Call me rude, extreme, frothing, unwielding, hyperbolic, reactionary, unhinged, myopic, tone deaf." -- Not sure why you would want me to do that, and so I won't. "... don't tell me I've become a radical leftist or a socialist or that the Democratic Pary ( ) has moved dangerously Left." - OK. Never have, never planned to, so this is a pretty easy concession for me to make. "Anger does not equal socialism." - Another easy concession. Although I really would prefer to wear a t-shirt with Born Braless on it. (A shirt I may in reality actually create, FWIW) Do not hate on mom26. I have not read the vast majority of threads. I have bypassed the great give and takes. I've seen enough to have read the utter frustration she has tried to express in her posts only to have them torn apart without regard for her frustration. And now, you are naming her in your post? Frankly, I had more respect for you than that. First Rainbow and now Mom26. I am now squirming in my chair. I feel a bit sleazy, like you have crossed a line of polite and civil discourse that makes me very uncomfortable. I think this is a good place to end.
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Post by elaine on Jan 26, 2019 20:54:08 GMT
Radical with reactionary. No, I did not comingle the two. A reaction occurs after an action. Reactions may be repeated and a new pattern of behavior may emerge in a habitual form. You touch a hot burner on the stove and pull your hand away, that's a reaction. You may do that once, you may do that several times, but eventually you make a point to not touch a hot burner on the stove. That's Reactionary Behavior. I just Googled reactionary behavior and the first thing to pop up was Merriam-Webster's definition of reactionary - "relating to, marked by, or favoring reaction --- especially: ultraconservative in politics" ------- Guess the entire "left" (same shorthand as before) is free from this charge then. <Don't look at me. I didn't add that meaning to the dictionary!> You may mean Reactive Behavior, where you react to life's events and not try to take proactive action to direct how your life will go? That doesn't apply to my thoughts either. To be radicalized is to have adopted radical positions on political or social issues, therefore Radicalized Behavior would be behavior that was based on a radical political or social ideal. This is exactly what I meant. The radical idea here is that heinous behavior may be meted out to a huge population of fellow Americans "because Trump". Because Donald Trump was elected and legally seated as the President of the United States, anyone who is so much as suspected of having one iota of unity with ANY of the agenda of this administration is fair game. The old rules do not apply. Innocent until proven guilty? - Hell to the no. You wear a hat, A MAGA HAT for God's sake!!!!, and you have proven yourself as one who could very well wear a NAZI armband at home or pick up several semi-automatic rifles and go shoot up a school. You want border security now, as you have wanted since long before the Democrat politicians jumped on and then off the bandwagon. You are a RACIST!!!! You don't care about children. You don't care about people with brown skin. You are the scum of the earth, lower than a snake's belly. You want a health care system that works? That is sustainable? - You want people to suffer and die! You only care about the rich. Again, you are RACIST! and probably also HOMOPHOBIC!. You NEVER, EVER, EVER disclose who you voted for in the last presidential election. People surmise how you voted based on your general, publicly stated political views, but you NEVER publicly support one candidate and you NEVER try to defend Trump - you are personally responsible for Trump being elected and you may be called every foul name in the book without apology. In the case of the school, in that public school, it is A-OK acceptable to deride the POTUS. It is absolutely fine to denigrate anyone you suspect may remotely be inclined to want any single part of this administration to succeed. How anyone attending that meeting of school personnel knew that the parents of the student they were discussing had come to be at a Trump rally is anyone's guess. If you let your mind wander, you can veer off into some pretty creepy territory all too easily, so best just to stipulate that the knowledge came by innocent means. The conclusion that this is what was creating the problem with the student is chilling. For all the talk that I have been subjected to of how comparative I (because Trump...) am to a NAZI under Hitler, the true comparison would be better found in a mirror. If you substituted the fact that the parents had sat at the front row of a Trump rally with "and the parents are Jewish," this is how that conversation would have sounded: "We are here to discuss the problems we are seeing with little Johnny in the classroom." "His parents are Jewish." Nods of agreement all around the table that this is the problem, or at least part of the problem.That most certainly is a radical position to the left. It is the very definition of one. Moreover, it is the reality of the denigration a great many of us must face if we reveal that we are conservative politically. Go back to November 8-10, 2016 and reread any social media, any news media, any correspondence with friends and acquaintances. And then read any from today. Listen to any late night talk show, any awards show.... really, the list is endless. And I am telling you, personally, as well as you, generally - It is not OK. I'm going to also assume here that you did not specifically include me in "Wow, those Democrats, right? They're getting so radical. Such radical, extreme, rude perspectives. Such unfathomable interpretations. Such radical, disordered listening?" even though this was part of your response to my explanation that specifically stated that if I interpreted or heard things the same way, I may come to the same conclusions. But, I do not hear or interpret things the same way. I don't know why. I do know that ever since I was a child, I, by nature, tend to hear or see both sides of a problem or argument. I'm the child grown into adult who throws the monkeywrench into set group beliefs. It's why nether the Catholic nor LDS Church would not want me to wish to convert, nor why any political party would be entirely happy with me. I agree with this, this, this, this, and this, but think they are entirely wrong about that. And so maybe you can begin to see how really shallow I see the reasoning is behind the application of such despise (because Trump...). The application of the denigration is done with hate. These are hate acts, and they are wildly popular. Do not even try to counter (general you here) with ... "How do you explain what the "right" (shorthand again) whatever it is," or any other comparison, for the simple reason that that is not being addressed in my posts. My posts have been focused in response to the question that you asked; "What characterizes the 'radical left'?" "Rainbow's big Neener-Neener-Walkaway campaign" - you have personalized a group to someone on this board whom you don't respect. That's not rational. Of course there are people who stopped being on board with the Democratic Party. Some of them took to social media and used the same hash tag. Big F'n deal. So.much.drama over other people's beliefs. To quote a present day poet, "I ain't got time for that, yo." "Call me rude, extreme, frothing, unwielding, hyperbolic, reactionary, unhinged, myopic, tone deaf." -- Not sure why you would want me to do that, and so I won't. "... don't tell me I've become a radical leftist or a socialist or that the Democratic Pary ( ) has moved dangerously Left." - OK. Never have, never planned to, so this is a pretty easy concession for me to make. "Anger does not equal socialism." - Another easy concession. Although I really would prefer to wear a t-shirt with Born Braless on it. (A shirt I may in reality actually create, FWIW) Do not hate on mom26 . I have not read the vast majority of threads. I have bypassed the great give and takes. I've seen enough to have read the utter frustration she has tried to express in her posts only to have them torn apart without regard for her frustration. And now, you are naming her in your post? Frankly, I had more respect for you than that. First Rainbow and now Mom26. I am now squirming in my chair. I feel a bit sleazy, like you have crossed a line of polite and civil discourse that makes me very uncomfortable. I think this is a good place to end I think that you have gone beyond the pale in terms of people not supporting your political beliefs personally, leftturnonly. The line I bolded is utter crap. Crap. Hateful and spiteful. While I don’t agree with you politically, you don’t usually come off sounding as lunatic. But you really do here. You know much better than to compare someone’s ethnicity - Judaism being ethnic under Nazi Germany and according to White Supremacists - to someone choosing to go to a political rally. No one has been killed for sitting at the front row at a Trump rally, while millions were brutally murdered for being born Jewish. Your whole ramblings on this thread about these referenced school meetings and having a child’s behavior explained by saying that his/her parents sitting at a Trump rally sound unhinged. And then to compare someone choosing to go to a Trump rally with my ethnicity, that I didn’t choose, yet could be killed for, is crazy-speak. Your powers of thought are much better than to make such false comparisons when you are grounded.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:14:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 21:10:14 GMT
4.75/5 stars. It would get the full 5 if it was a v-neck. - "A moment of instant attraction, when you see that shirt from across the room and know, somehow, it should be your own." - Lefty 2. So, if I understand, you’re equating radicalism with being reactionary. Interesting yet confusing. ‘Cause we can’t make a semantic change like that. No, as annoyingly pedantic as I know I can be, I think lots of folks would agree nobody can say “Sez YOU!” back to what I just claimed. I shall, of course, explain at greaaaaaaat length. The word “radical,” of course (!), can be be applied to a lot of things, but when it’s paired with “liberalism” or “leftist” (Lordy, I hate that word) or “conservative,” it is explicitly describing political ideology. Political theory. Political parties. Policy platforms. Can we just decide that, instead, it now means, “ Wow, those Democrats, right? Every last one of them has become a radical. Such radical, extreme, rude perspectives. Such unfathomable interpretations. Such radical listening?” ? Radical with reactionary. No, I did not comingle the two. A reaction occurs after an action. Reactions may be repeated and a new pattern of behavior may emerge in a habitual form. You touch a hot burner on the stove and pull your hand away, that's a reaction. You may do that once, you may do that several times, but eventually you make a point to not touch a hot burner on the stove. That's Reactionary Behavior. I just Googled reactionary behavior and the first thing to pop up was Merriam-Webster's definition of reactionary - "relating to, marked by, or favoring reaction --- especially: ultraconservative in politics" ------- Guess the entire "left" (same shorthand as before) is free from this charge then. <Don't look at me. I didn't add that meaning to the dictionary!> You may mean Reactive Behavior, where you react to life's events and not try to take proactive action to direct how your life will go? That doesn't apply to my thoughts either. To be radicalized is to have adopted radical positions on political or social issues, therefore Radicalized Behavior would be behavior that was based on a radical political or social ideal. This is exactly what I meant. The radical idea here is that heinous behavior may be meted out to a huge population of fellow Americans "because Trump". Because Donald Trump was elected and legally seated as the President of the United States, anyone who is so much as suspected of having one iota of unity with ANY of the agenda of this administration is fair game. The old rules do not apply. Innocent until proven guilty? - Hell to the no. You wear a hat, A MAGA HAT for God's sake!!!!, and you have proven yourself as one who could very well wear a NAZI armband at home or pick up several semi-automatic rifles and go shoot up a school. You want border security now, as you have wanted since long before the Democrat politicians jumped on and then off the bandwagon. You are a RACIST!!!! You don't care about children. You don't care about people with brown skin. You are the scum of the earth, lower than a snake's belly. You want a health care system that works? That is sustainable? - You want people to suffer and die! You only care about the rich. Again, you are RACIST! and probably also HOMOPHOBIC!. You NEVER, EVER, EVER disclose who you voted for in the last presidential election. People surmise how you voted based on your general, publicly stated political views, but you NEVER publicly support one candidate and you NEVER try to defend Trump - you are personally responsible for Trump being elected and you may be called every foul name in the book without apology. In the case of the school, in that public school, it is A-OK acceptable to deride the POTUS. It is absolutely fine to denigrate anyone you suspect may remotely be inclined to want any single part of this administration to succeed. How anyone attending that meeting of school personnel knew that the parents of the student they were discussing had come to be at a Trump rally is anyone's guess. If you let your mind wander, you can veer off into some pretty creepy territory all too easily, so best just to stipulate that the knowledge came by innocent means. The conclusion that this is what was creating the problem with the student is chilling. For all the talk that I have been subjected to of how comparative I (because Trump...) am to a NAZI under Hitler, the true comparison would be better found in a mirror. If you substituted the fact that the parents had sat at the front row of a Trump rally with "and the parents are Jewish," this is how that conversation would have sounded: "We are here to discuss the problems we are seeing with little Johnny in the classroom." "His parents are Jewish." Nods of agreement all around the table that this is the problem, or at least part of the problem. That most certainly is a radical position to the left. It is the very definition of one. Moreover, it is the reality of the denigration a great many of us must face if we reveal that we are conservative politically. Go back to November 8-10, 2016 and reread any social media, any news media, any correspondence with friends and acquaintances. And then read any from today. Listen to any late night talk show, any awards show.... really, the list is endless. And I am telling you, personally, as well as you, generally - It is not OK. I'm going to also assume here that you did not specifically include me in "Wow, those Democrats, right? They're getting so radical. Such radical, extreme, rude perspectives. Such unfathomable interpretations. Such radical, disordered listening?" even though this was part of your response to my explanation that specifically stated that if I interpreted or heard things the same way, I may come to the same conclusions. But, I do not hear or interpret things the same way. I don't know why. I do know that ever since I was a child, I, by nature, tend to hear or see both sides of a problem or argument. I'm the child grown into adult who throws the monkeywrench into set group beliefs. It's why nether the Catholic nor LDS Church would not want me to wish to convert, nor why any political party would be entirely happy with me. I agree with this, this, this, this, and this, but think they are entirely wrong about that. And so maybe you can begin to see how really shallow I see the reasoning is behind the application of such despise (because Trump...). The application of the denigration is done with hate. These are hate acts, and they are wildly popular. Do not even try to counter (general you here) with ... "How do you explain what the "right" (shorthand again) whatever it is," or any other comparison, for the simple reason that that is not being addressed in my posts. My posts have been focused in response to the question that you asked; "What characterizes the 'radical left'?" "Rainbow's big Neener-Neener-Walkaway campaign" - you have personalized a group to someone on this board whom you don't respect. That's not rational. Of course there are people who stopped being on board with the Democratic Party. Some of them took to social media and used the same hash tag. Big F'n deal. So.much.drama over other people's beliefs. To quote a present day poet, "I ain't got time for that, yo." "Call me rude, extreme, frothing, unwielding, hyperbolic, reactionary, unhinged, myopic, tone deaf." -- Not sure why you would want me to do that, and so I won't. "... don't tell me I've become a radical leftist or a socialist or that the Democratic Pary ( ) has moved dangerously Left." - OK. Never have, never planned to, so this is a pretty easy concession for me to make. "Anger does not equal socialism." - Another easy concession. Although I really would prefer to wear a t-shirt with Born Braless on it. (A shirt I may in reality actually create, FWIW) Do not hate on mom26 . I have not read the vast majority of threads. I have bypassed the great give and takes. I've seen enough to have read the utter frustration she has tried to express in her posts only to have them torn apart without regard for her frustration. And now, you are naming her in your post? Frankly, I had more respect for you than that. First Rainbow and now Mom26. I am now squirming in my chair. I feel a bit sleazy, like you have crossed a line of polite and civil discourse that makes me very uncomfortable. I think this is a good place to end. “and you NEVER defend trump”Can anyone really defend trump and do it with a straight face? Seriously? Not being a smart ass, but can anyone seriously defend trump?
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 26, 2019 21:16:20 GMT
@fred (I didn't want to Quote the whole post.
Those who truly support trump can absolutely do it with a straight face.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 26, 2019 21:19:30 GMT
I think that you have gone beyond the pale in terms of people not supporting your political beliefs personally, leftturnonly. The line I bolded is utter crap. Crap. Hateful and spiteful. While I don’t agree with you politically, you don’t usually come off sounding as lunatic. But you really do here. You know much better than to compare someone’s ethnicity - Judaism being ethnic under Nazi Germany and according to White Supremacists - to someone choosing to go to a political rally. No one has been killed for sitting at the front row at a Trump rally, while millions were brutally murdered for being born Jewish. Your whole ramblings on this thread about these referenced school meetings and having a child’s behavior explained by saying that his/her parents sitting at a Trump rally sound unhinged. And then to compare someone choosing to go to a Trump rally with my ethnicity, that I didn’t choose, yet could be killed for, is crazy-speak. Your powers of thought are much better than to make such false comparisons when you are grounded. You may disagree with me, and I am OK with that. My reasoning is not fanatical. It is not crap. It is not political. And, it is not ethnically based. It is simple reasoning. It is NOT OK to say that the problems a child has are because the parents are Jewish. History (Still fairly recent history, I will add.) should be held as a constant reminder how wrong this generalization is and how extremely dangerous it can become. I am not the one who proclaimed that we have now entered into a racist society full of hate with the election of Donald Trump. I am not the one to compare those holding political power in America today to those who held power under the Third Reich. Yet, even in your post, I am compared to White Supremasists. No, Elaine. That is not OK. You may disagree with me, but you may not compare me to people who do support hate, bigotry and all the other ills that they represent. I gave an anecodotal story. I did not ramble. If it sounds unhinged, than maybe you have gotten the point more than you care to admit. YES. It is unhinged to treat people as if they are members of some White-Based hate group when they are not. It is not OK. It is dangerous, it is evil and it is wrong. Were the child's parents racist, homophobic...... (it's a long list)? I have not a clue and neither do you. You've no idea why they support Trump. None at all. They may be the kindest, most generous, loving and accepting people and still support Trump. I know this to be true because I know plenty of people who fall into this category. The only conclusion I can make is that you, like those gathered at the school meeting, have jumped to the assumption that because Trump, these parents deserve all the scorn and bad that can be mustered against them. And that is just not OK.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 26, 2019 22:15:15 GMT
FWIW, if, for some unfathomable reason, I would so much as attempt to join such a group as that made up of some form of White-Based Supremacy, I would be rejected, run out of the area, and a target to be scrutinized.
My hazy-at-best understanding of what constitutes just the word "race" would be a severe drawback for them.
My support of LGBTQA individuals wouldn't be counted as a plus, nor would my support for legal same-sex marriage. My standing up for a trans child would be an issue.
I do not espouse violence. I despise public denigration of individuals. Physically confronting someone in public over a difference of opinion is just not something I do. I wouldn't be of much use if that was on the White agenda.
My religious beliefs are my own. The church I am technically a member of was torn down and the last time I attended a service of that denomination was in the last century. The church that I sporadically attend I have not joined, am not technically of the same faith, and I have openly stated where I disagree with their doctrine. So, it would be very hard for me to be considered as pious or adherent enough on that scale to qualify.
I'd have to explain my friendships with people of varying shades of skin, socioeconomic levels, degree or lack thereof of education just on my friends list on FB.
But, I'd never get so far in an interview. I'd be tossed out from just one look at a photo from my last immediate family reunion alone.
The truth is that I have had far more comments made about the color of my skin than I have made about anyone else's in my entire lifetime. I have had far more attributes assigned to me based on the color of my skin than I have ever thought about others, let alone assert. And the assumptions made about me because of my politically conservative - literally, not radical, not extreme, middle-of-the-road - view of life occasionally, as in the climate of today, reach deep into farcical parody of everything that I hold as true.
All y'all who choose to continue as you've done for the past 2+ years... that is your choice to make.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 26, 2019 22:22:15 GMT
Just skimming thru some of this thread and I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that you don't know about the big CNN 2 Scoops scandal. Ice cream is indeed headline news when it comes to President Trump! OMG! I had completely suppressed the memory. I am, however, saved by the meager fact that it is no longer headline news. (Last I checked.)
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Jan 26, 2019 22:25:47 GMT
What I truly do not understand, do NOT understand, is *still* defending Trump. The man has been a dumpster fire. I understand voting Republican two years ago because one is/may have been a hardline Republican, vehemently anti-HRC, anti-choice, whatever. Have at it. But it boggles my mind the moral gymnastics Trump supporters -- NOT every Republican, but Trump supporters, and there is a difference -- are *still* willing to go through to stand by their man. How can anyone still think this man is presidential material, that he is good for this country? My husband is a die-hard Republican. He voted for Trump knowing what an asshole Trump was and what Trump had said and the decades of poor business (and, one could argue, personal) decisions, because there was no way he (DH) was going to vote for a Democrat, and certainly not for HRC (nor Sanders, had that been the choice). My DH is quick to point out he's a Republican, not a Trumper, and DH would never in a million years wear MAGA apparel because he knows it's Trump apparel, worn by Trump, the saying splashed all over the place by Trump, sold on Trump's website, etc. I would be willing to bet that you will not find an anti-Trump Republican (and there are many) wearing MAGA apparel. Footnote: Official Donald Trump Make America Great Again Hat on DonaldJTrump.com
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Post by mollycoddle on Jan 26, 2019 22:27:41 GMT
Lefty, I’m just gonna comment on this:
"Rainbow's big Neener-Neener-Walkaway campaign" - you have personalized a group to someone on this board whom you don't respect. That's not rational. Of course there are people who stopped being on board with the Democratic Party. Some of them took to social media and used the same hash tag. Big F'n deal. So.much.drama over other people's beliefs. To quote a present day poet, "I ain't got time for that, yo."
It’s true that I have little respect for Rainbow. Not because of her beliefs so much(a little, it’s true), but mostly because of how she participates on threads. In her #walkaway thread, she posted video after video of this stuff. Now, that’s her right, but actions have consequences; in this instance, people form judgements. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I generally suspect that she just enjoys baiting people and then disappearing from threads.
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Post by wezee on Jan 26, 2019 22:31:57 GMT
yes
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Jan 26, 2019 22:37:32 GMT
Just skimming thru some of this thread and I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that you don't know about the big CNN 2 Scoops scandal. Ice cream is indeed headline news when it comes to President Trump! OMG! I had completely suppressed the memory. I am, however, saved by the meager fact that it is no longer headline news. (Last I checked.) Obama dares ask for spicy mustard
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 26, 2019 22:44:04 GMT
OMG! I had completely suppressed the memory. I am, however, saved by the meager fact that it is no longer headline news. (Last I checked.) Obama dares ask for spicy mustardexcuse me, but plain yellow mustard is good enough for the blue collar workers of this land. Spicy mustard is for elitists.
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