Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:47:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 22:46:22 GMT
When you're defending those who wear MAGA hats, you might go back and look through some of the video of campaign rallies at which people were wearing them. Rallies at which people chanted for Trump to lock up a political opponent, cheered when he described immigrants as rapists and murderers, cheered when he mocked a disabled reporter, surrounded and threatened media members doing their jobs, cheered and laughed when he used racist and sexist language to describe opponents, and cheered when he told blatant and obvious lies. Not just once, but over and over again until these things were a feature at every rally he led. 1) I said that there is a difference in perspectives between many people who wear the clothing and those who denigrate them. If you consider that as defending them, whatever. I really don't care. 2) "Lock her up!" has not resulted in Hillary Clinton being illegally seized and held, despite the calamity that is being portrayed in your statement. Hillary Clinton is as free as she ever has been. Therefore, the chants have had zero effect on any political opponents. There is no threat of her being arrested, or locked up, without due legal proceedings, so the outrage is very hollow to my ears. 3) You win. No criminals, drug dealers or rapists cross our southern border. Mexico does encourage doctors and scientists to defy our laws and cross our border illegally. The Mexican government hands out the old 31 page pamphlet, "Guide for the Mexican Migrant" to these high level achievers just to help them along. 4) All 7 seconds of the horror of Trump's mockery on display, never to be forgotten. Joe Biden's comments about not being allowed go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts without having a slight Indian accent. No one remembers. No one cares. I give them about the same rating of inappropriateness and they are roughly equivalent in length. Hardly representative of actual policies created or supported by either man. And if they aren't discriminating against the disabled or the foreign-born (respectively), neither their private opinions nor my assumptions of their private opinions really matter. 5) Sexist language. He has said truly terrible things. And this is actually a fairly good summation of the fallacy that people support Donald Trump or parts of Trump's agenda because they agree with any or all of these terrible things that you listed. The truth is that people support Donald Trump or parts of his agenda despite those shortcomings because they see him as a man of action trying to implement the policies that they voted him into office to implement. There is a difference between the two that is clear as day to me and as murky as swamp to so many others. I believe “lock her up” had more to do with the fact certain individuals did not like the fact the FBI/DOJ did not file charges against her after they completed the investigation. It seems these individuals did understand the word “intent” when it comes to filing criminal charges.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 26, 2019 23:23:58 GMT
I know I am late, but no way. Those hats were never meant to be a symbol of unity and if they had, the people wearing them now would not be wearing them. Everything about those hats is to piss off those damn snowflake dems and they like that it does. There are plenty of right leaning Republicans who would never wear a MAGA hat because it does not represent their beliefs. I think that they were worn for positive reasons by many and I believe that there are those who continue to wear those clothes for the same reasons they had to begin with. Perhaps unity isn't the most accurate term, so I will agree that particular word choice could have been better. As for not wearing that label now, do you prefer that people may be bullied into not wearing particular clothing? You are a teacher, so please, stop and think about this for a moment. Do you think a young man would be made the brunt of public humiliation & possibly receive aggressive physical assault if he wore this T shirt instead of a MAGA hat? That's a photo of Joseph Stalin with the caption, "Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem." If we are to publicly humiliate people for offensive ideas, is not the lethality of Stalin's regime more offensive than the idea of making America great (again or otherwise)? We both know the answer. Nobody would publicly harass a kid wearing this shirt. Someone of later middle-age might say something, but harassment that ends up on the news? Nah. And if it did; if there were an escalation where a kid wearing a Stalin T shirt was surrounded and screamed at just for wearing the shirt, who believes that the kid would be considered responsible for the behavior of those who were screaming? The reasoning of the public at large flips a switch as soon as Donald Trump is applied and all the old acceptable rules of behavior are deemed inconsequential. That is not a healthy trend. It is disturbing. It is not OK. The best way, IMO, to handle the situation where you encounter someone wearing a MAGA hat, even if they are holding up an explicitly worded sign that leaves no doubt as to their point, is to walk on by. How about that. Just walk on by. Or maybe just have a simple conversation with that person and find out a little bit about them. The rush to judgement by people of any political persuasion is not helpful. I would never consider you a snowflake, FC! I don't think that's a term I have ever used anywhere at any time, but on the off chance that I did, it would have been years ago and long before this current political climate.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 26, 2019 23:37:02 GMT
excuse me, but plain yellow mustard is good enough for the blue collar workers of this land. Spicy mustard is for elitists. The plot has twisted in my behindedness! I am never gonna get caught up with this thread. I accept that now as a fact. I call UNCLE! Mustard? I love mustard! I love the yellow. I love spicy. I have even made my own (but not for a long time). I guess that makes me a braless hippie blue color elitist. <looking down at what I'm wearing right now and only the elitist part could be in doubt if it weren't for the spicy mustard, which cinches the deal> Again. I am never gonna get caught up with this thread. Real life and all that jazz awaits my attention. So, I guess I am bralessly hairflipping my way out. Mustard may be involved in a near-future meal, but I'm just gonna leave y'all hanging as to which of the selections currently in the fridge will make the cut. Try to carry on without me. I'm sure the loss will be greatly felt.
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Post by teach4u on Jan 26, 2019 23:59:44 GMT
People rightfully state women never deserve to r assaulted regardless of what they wear or don’t wear. Don’t make assumptions of character. But if you’re wearing a hat( representing someone 1/2 the voters chose) then you can assume the person is horrible. And you know assuming is always a fair way of judging someone.. not.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 0:34:12 GMT
Making an assumption about a person's political or racist views w/o harming them <> making an assumption about a woman's clothing TO THE EXTENT THAT SOMEONE USES THEIR CLOTHING CHOICES TO SEXUALLY ASSAULT THEM.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 27, 2019 0:34:58 GMT
People rightfully state women never deserve to r assaulted regardless of what they wear or don’t wear. Don’t make assumptions of character. But if you’re wearing a hat( representing someone 1/2 the voters chose) then you can assume the person is horrible. And you know assuming is always a fair way of judging someone.. not. I think there is a vast difference making assumptions about someone based on an article of clothing, than it is making assumptions about someone wearing an item of clothing with a political slogan, associated with people who have done some fairly reprehensible things. And really, NOW you have a problem with judging people based on assumptions? Okay.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 27, 2019 0:41:23 GMT
People rightfully state women never deserve to r assaulted regardless of what they wear or don’t wear. Don’t make assumptions of character. But if you’re wearing a hat( representing someone 1/2 the voters chose) then you can assume the person is horrible. And you know assuming is always a fair way of judging someone.. not. You’re reaching. And your comparison sucks. Blaming a woman for being raped because of what she wore (many who are raped are in sweats, t shirts, jackets, pajamas, jeans, business suits, everyday clothing...) is not the same as judging a person for wearing a “symbol” of who/what they are or who they support. And no, it’s not always assumed that people are horrible for JUST a hat. The kids behaviors were awful. That’s what I noticed first, I wasn’t even zoned in in their hats. It was more of a “it figures”!once the hat was mentioned for me.
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 27, 2019 0:52:41 GMT
I know I am late, but no way. Those hats were never meant to be a symbol of unity and if they had, the people wearing them now would not be wearing them. Everything about those hats is to piss off those damn snowflake dems and they like that it does. There are plenty of right leaning Republicans who would never wear a MAGA hat because it does not represent their beliefs. I think that they were worn for positive reasons by many and I believe that there are those who continue to wear those clothes for the same reasons they had to begin with. Perhaps unity isn't the most accurate term, so I will agree that particular word choice could have been better. As for not wearing that label now, do you prefer that people may be bullied into not wearing particular clothing? You are a teacher, so please, stop and think about this for a moment. ] Do you think a young man would be made the brunt of public humiliation & possibly receive aggressive physical assault if he wore this T shirt instead of a MAGA hat? That's a photo of Joseph Stalin with the caption, "Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem." If we are to publicly humiliate people for offensive ideas, is not the lethality of Stalin's regime more offensive than the idea of making America great (again or otherwise)? We both know the answer. Nobody would publicly harass a kid wearing this shirt. Someone of later middle-age might say something, but harassment that ends up on the news? Nah. And if it did; if there were an escalation where a kid wearing a Stalin T shirt was surrounded and screamed at just for wearing the shirt, who believes that the kid would be considered responsible for the behavior of those who were screaming? The reasoning of the public at large flips a switch as soon as Donald Trump is applied and all the old acceptable rules of behavior are deemed inconsequential. That is not a healthy trend. It is disturbing. It is not OK. The best way, IMO, to handle the situation where you encounter someone wearing a MAGA hat, even if they are holding up an explicitly worded sign that leaves no doubt as to their point, is to walk on by. How about that. Just walk on by. Or maybe just have a simple conversation with that person and find out a little bit about them. The rush to judgement by people of any political persuasion is not helpful. I would never consider you a snowflake, FC! I don't think that's a term I have ever used anywhere at any time, but on the off chance that I did, it would have been years ago and long before this current political climate. Remember I teach in a rural, very conservative area. My student do own MAGA hats and some even think Trump is the best thing to have ever happened. When trump was elected we had students yelling at our Hispanic students that now they'd have to go back to mexico. It was a tense time. Now you can tell the trump lovers make many of the students uncomfortable, but they ignore it or laugh it off. It makes it seem as though they agree or approve when they don't. I do not and will not treat my students differently based on their views. The biggest student trump supporter i know is also the sweetest, kindest, gentlest student I know. He's a football player and our team is diverse. I don't think he notices that his teammates may be hispanic. I think he delineates between friends and the bad hombres from Mexico. He believe Hillary is the biggest criminal ever. He has a very narrow view because that is his world. I doubt he will change, be I don't think it is because he has hate in his heart. I do absolutely judge the public if they wear a MAGA hat. It is a symbol and a negative one at that. There is nothing redeeming about that hat. I know people who wear that or have trump stickers on their vehicles and I know how they think in general. I also socialize with these people as again...small town. I would also judge someone wearing a Stalin shirt probably more harshly than the hat. I didn't think you called me a snowflake (or anyone else), but rather those who wear that hat are doing it to piss off the people they snowflakes.
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 27, 2019 0:57:27 GMT
Making an assumption about a person's political or racist views w/o harming them <> making an assumption about a woman's clothing TO THE EXTENT THAT SOMEONE USES THEIR CLOTHING CHOICES TO SEXUALLY ASSAULT THEM. you might have a case if you alluded to a person going up and having a physical altercation with someone based on a hat, but just judgement? Wtf-ever. However, and I completely own this, I judge often based on how someone is dressed. I'm okay with that.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 27, 2019 1:06:22 GMT
Lefty, I’m just gonna comment on this: "Rainbow's big Neener-Neener-Walkaway campaign" - you have personalized a group to someone on this board whom you don't respect. That's not rational. Of course there are people who stopped being on board with the Democratic Party. Some of them took to social media and used the same hash tag. Big F'n deal. So.much.drama over other people's beliefs. To quote a present day poet, "I ain't got time for that, yo." It’s true that I have little respect for Rainbow. Not because of her beliefs so much(a little, it’s true), but mostly because of how she participates on threads. In her #walkaway thread, she posted video after video of this stuff. Now, that’s her right, but actions have consequences; in this instance, people form judgements. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I generally suspect that she just enjoys baiting people and then disappearing from threads. I'm going to agree with Mollycoddle. I find it very hard to respect Rainbow, because of *how* she goes about posting. It absolutely feels like a one way baiting and walk away, she is not alone in feeling that way, most assuredly. Its not designed to be thought provoking or challenging how others think - its merely baiting for an expected outcome. I feel like teach4u is doing exactly the same thing. Where as even if I might not agree 100% with Lefty and a few others, I will read their posts - even if I don't end up agreeing with them. They often challenge me to think or give me a perspective that I hadn't thought of. And at times I agree with them. Rainbow (and now teach4u) are their own worst enemy because of *how* they approached things. Its different.
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Post by elaine on Jan 27, 2019 1:28:54 GMT
So, we are now to believe that people who wear MAGA hats in the USA are as brutalized as women who are sexually assualted and persecuted as the Jews in Nazi Germany?
Really?
The War-on-Christmas mentality on steroids.
There is all kinds of crazy on this thread.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 27, 2019 1:37:42 GMT
The biggest student trump supporter i know is also the sweetest, kindest, gentlest student I know. He's a football player and our team is diverse. I don't think he notices that his teammates may be hispanic. I think he delineates between friends and the bad hombres from Mexico. He believe Hillary is the biggest criminal ever. He has a very narrow view because that is his world. I doubt he will change, be I don't think it is because he has hate in his heart. I'm responding to this directly from a notice while dinner is getting ready. I really do not have time to read the thread or respond to other notices, but FC and I go way back and I haven't had a decent talk with her in forever and a day. FC, I'm not understanding here what narrow view your student has if he is kind, gentle and inclusive of those from cultures unlike his own while still keeping a distance from those who may engage in criminal behavior. He certainly does not sound like someone who is hateful. What in the world is there that needs changing about that? Doesn't he disprove your statements that the people who support Donald Trump where you are of all of a certain type? And from the way you worded your post, it doesn't sound like he is even someone you include in those in your area who wear MAGA hats for provocation (no telling what he would wear in his own home in privacy, so we'll just stick with being provocative here), so I truly am failing to see the need for him to change anything. If you think his opinion of Hillary Clinton needing to face legal consequences for her past behavior/activities is the problem, than I hope you also extend this opinion to those who state that they want to see the impeachment of President Trump. And... my time is up. Gotta go.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 27, 2019 2:34:00 GMT
The biggest student trump supporter i know is also the sweetest, kindest, gentlest student I know. He's a football player and our team is diverse. I don't think he notices that his teammates may be hispanic. I think he delineates between friends and the bad hombres from Mexico. He believe Hillary is the biggest criminal ever. He has a very narrow view because that is his world. I doubt he will change, be I don't think it is because he has hate in his heart. I'm responding to this directly from a notice while dinner is getting ready. I really do not have time to read the thread or respond to other notices, but FC and I go way back and I haven't had a decent talk with her in forever and a day. FC, I'm not understanding here what narrow view your student has if he is kind, gentle and inclusive of those from cultures unlike his own while still keeping a distance from those who may engage in criminal behavior. He certainly does not sound like someone who is hateful. What in the world is there that needs changing about that? Doesn't he disprove your statements that the people who support Donald Trump where you are of all of a certain type? And from the way you worded your post, it doesn't sound like he is even someone you include in those in your area who wear MAGA hats for provocation (no telling what he would wear in his own home in privacy, so we'll just stick with being provocative here), so I truly am failing to see the need for him to change anything. If you think his opinion of Hillary Clinton needing to face legal consequences for her past behavior/activities is the problem, than I hope you also extend this opinion to those who state that they want to see the impeachment of President Trump. And... my time is up. Gotta go. See, here’s the thing.... HRC was put to the rest, investigated multiple times (and by Republicans) and was found not to be *guilty* of what she was accused. People refuse to understand that. That’s not on the democrats—that’s all on those who believe differently. Trump/campaign is being investigated now and all the results are not in. He’s already committed impeachable offenses, and nothing. He lies as everyone breathes. So he’s already receiving courtesies that HRC was not. And what I see/read that needs to change with her student is that he should educate on facts, vs follow a party blindly, and seek out facts vs following one line of thought. The truth is out there, not just propaganda put out by his party. If he can’t seek out facts because it’s part of the community in which he resides it become a cult where one cannot think for themselves. (Examples my religion was that if my parents, until I grew up and sought out religion for myself, my politics were shaped by my parents; same thing—)
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 2:53:49 GMT
Daily lies and division created and inflamed by Fox news The exact same thing can be said about CNN I don't condone or justify death threats towards the teens wearing the MAGA hats. Nor do I think that the hats are the reason for people being upset with them. The hats were the reason people went looking for a reason and came up with extremely flimsy excuses to back up the narrative they had already decided on because of the hats. That's backed up by your next statement... Whether you like it or not, MAGA hats or clothing do say something about someone and their values. I wouldn't compare it to a swastika at this point, but more like a confederate flag--maybe a step up from that in regards to how offensive it is since it is a newer symbol that is more relevant to today's issues.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 27, 2019 3:20:53 GMT
Daily lies and division created and inflamed by Fox news The exact same thing can be said about CNN I don't condone or justify death threats towards the teens wearing the MAGA hats. Nor do I think that the hats are the reason for people being upset with them. The hats were the reason people went looking for a reason and came up with extremely flimsy excuses to back up the narrative they had already decided on because of the hats. That's backed up by your next statement... Whether you like it or not, MAGA hats or clothing do say something about someone and their values. I wouldn't compare it to a swastika at this point, but more like a confederate flag--maybe a step up from that in regards to how offensive it is since it is a newer symbol that is more relevant to today's issues. No, it really cannot. Fox surpasses CNN in lies and misinformation. “Fox News: Fox News was established on October 7, 1996 as a subsidiary of Fox Entertainment Group, itself a property of Rupert Murdoch’s Twentieth Century Fox. Murdoch appointed veteran Republican political strategist Rodger Ailes as its CEO, and he, along with fellow political hack Bill O’Reilly, transformed the network into the propaganda arm of the Republican Party with Murdoch’s tacit consent. Fox News has the largest number of “opinion anchors” of any major news network, though in reality the line between “opinion” and “news” on Fox is semi-existent at best. No liberal has their own opinion show on Fox. In fact, all of them skew far to the right of the mean of American public opinion. Among them are ethno-nationalist in all but name Tucker Carson, hyperpartisan hypocrite Sean Hannity and, formerly, pontificating lunatic Glenn Beck, whose well documented history of false and inflammatory rhetoric precedes him. There is also the brain-cell killing stupidity of Fox and Friends, which is what would happen if Good Morning America was raped by TMZ and TheBlaze. The “journalism” wing of Fox is little better, with Chris Wallace being the only halfway decent member of the bunch. Fox has lowered the expectations for how a news station should operate to such an extent that their competitors have also begun to stoop to their level, focusing on yellow journalism and abandoning the Cronkitean objectivity of the past by going after stories that attract viewership over those that are important. In many ways, CNN’s own decline in quality can be attributed to their attempts to race Fox to the bottom. This network has done more than any other segment of the media to show chaos, misinformation and division into the fabric of American democracy. It embodies a toxic culture of homophobia, islamophobia, atheist-bashing and, most of all, sexism. The business culture of Fox News has been likened to a frat house. While I am not saying that other news outlets don’t have problems with sexual harassment, but it has become something of an art in Fox. Both CEO Rodger Ailes and Bill O’Reilly (who, by the time of the allegations, was the top rated anchorman in the country) were forced out due to well documented accusations of sexual misbehavior by multiple women. Fox’s complaints department failed catastrophically to act on these. At least two other anchors, Robert Payne and Eric Bolling, have had their jobs suspended after accusations of harassment from various women. But that’s just the worst of it. There have been no shortage of embarrassing incidents in which Fox has found itself under fire, but among them are deliberate manipulation of photographs to get a fallacious point across, pretending to cover events that their competitors don’t when they do (the 9/12/2009 protests are the best example of this), deliberately misrepresenting video footage to make crowd sizes at conservative events look larger, using the continued existence of snow as a means to “disprove” climate change, airing fake statistics supposedly showing that more than 100% of Americans disapprove of Obama, lying about nonexistent “no go zones” in the United Kingdom, attributing falsified quotes to John Kerry and dedicating an entire segment to talking about how the Lego Movie is part of an anti-capitalist agenda because Lord Business, the villein “looks a bit like Mitt Romney.” In conclusion, there is simply no contest. CNN began as a highly respectable company but devolved into what it is today, and even then they still contribute a valuable story from time to time. Fox was never meant to be anything more than a de-facto appendage of the Republican Party, spewing misinformation that has poisoned the rhetoric in this country and turned the political and journalistic industries of the United States into perpetual mud slinging fights.” —Quora Statements made on FOX Click on the ruling to see all of the statements made on FOX. True (10%)(17) Mostly True (12%)(20) Half True (19%)(32) Mostly False (21%)(36) False (29%)(50) Pants on Fire (9%)(16)
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Post by Merge on Jan 27, 2019 4:50:39 GMT
I feel like this whole promotion of bralessness is discriminating against those of us who have not been able to go braless, except at bedtime, since the late 80s.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jan 27, 2019 5:08:49 GMT
I feel like this whole promotion of bralessness is discriminating against those of us who have not been able to go braless, except at bedtime, since the late 80s. I'd accessorize my bralessness with a sad pink SAG(A) hat 😂
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Post by Merge on Jan 27, 2019 5:36:17 GMT
I feel like this whole promotion of bralessness is discriminating against those of us who have not been able to go braless, except at bedtime, since the late 80s. I'd accessorize my bralessness with a sad pink SAG(A) hat 😂
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 27, 2019 6:02:34 GMT
The biggest student trump supporter i know is also the sweetest, kindest, gentlest student I know. He's a football player and our team is diverse. I don't think he notices that his teammates may be hispanic. I think he delineates between friends and the bad hombres from Mexico. He believe Hillary is the biggest criminal ever. He has a very narrow view because that is his world. I doubt he will change, be I don't think it is because he has hate in his heart. I'm responding to this directly from a notice while dinner is getting ready. I really do not have time to read the thread or respond to other notices, but FC and I go way back and I haven't had a decent talk with her in forever and a day. FC, I'm not understanding here what narrow view your student has if he is kind, gentle and inclusive of those from cultures unlike his own while still keeping a distance from those who may engage in criminal behavior. He certainly does not sound like someone who is hateful. What in the world is there that needs changing about that? Doesn't he disprove your statements that the people who support Donald Trump where you are of all of a certain type? And from the way you worded your post, it doesn't sound like he is even someone you include in those in your area who wear MAGA hats for provocation (no telling what he would wear in his own home in privacy, so we'll just stick with being provocative here), so I truly am failing to see the need for him to change anything. If you think his opinion of Hillary Clinton needing to face legal consequences for her past behavior/activities is the problem, than I hope you also extend this opinion to those who state that they want to see the impeachment of President Trump. And... my time is up. Gotta go. for me, he does disprove it, but it wouldn't stop me from judging a stranger for having the same thoughts/speach. The narrowness is that he hasn't been exposed to a lot and his opinions are based on a very narrow view of the world. He doesn't have the experience to generalize or look beyond his little world. He is idealistic and perhaps naive This kid would never stand their with that smirk the other kid did. He is a respectful young man and has been taught to respect his elders. I also know other students, at my school and my kids' school that fit the generalized trump supporter to a t.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 6:14:33 GMT
Finally, a point of order - can you and everyone else who does it please, please stop including long-ass quotes from news articles. Link to the article, mention a point of interest, and let us go down the rabbit hole ourselves. Those of us who read mostly on our phones cannot easily follow a long post that also includes long quotes. Pull out shorter quotes, make your point and move on. Anyone interested in context can open the actual article. | |
I can't tell you how many times I've seen peas swiped at for doing just that. Some people really really don't like that and will use it to dismiss the anything you have to say because you couldn't possibly know what you're talking about if you don't include everything in context.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 27, 2019 6:39:39 GMT
for me, he does disprove it, but it wouldn't stop me from judging a stranger for having the same thoughts/speach. The narrowness is that he hasn't been exposed to a lot and his opinions are based on a very narrow view of the world. He doesn't have the experience to generalize or look beyond his little world. He is idealistic and perhaps naive This kid would never stand their with that smirk the other kid did. He is a respectful young man and has been taught to respect his elders. I also know other students, at my school and my kids' school that fit the generalized trump supporter to a t. And the kids who were for Hillary and who denigrate people who support any part of the current agenda do not have very narrow views of the world? They have the experience to generalize or look beyond their own little worlds? They are not still wet behind the ears and naive in their own rights? <These are real, snarkless questions, but you do not need to respond. It's OK. We're talking about kids that you know. I'm content to leave these thoughts here as something for any person who may be reading along to ponder. > Yes, there are all kinds of people with crazy ideas and I've no doubt that there are a number of these groups near you. I don't agree with them any more than you do. The very real problem is that these radical and hate-inspired groups are not intermixed with the typical, everyday person who may support at least some portion of the current agenda. It isn't rational to judge innocent people by the actions or beliefs of others just because they voted for the same 1 of 2 serious presidential candidates. Let me repeat that. There were 2 presidential candidates that had any chance of winning the presidency on election night in Nov 2016. All of the people who voted for or who in some way are happy now for the election of the 1 are not alike. Again, FC, I know you know this and I know that you try very hard to remain calm, reasonable and open. It must be trying to be around some of the people you are around and it would wear on me as well. Thank you for still being you after all these years. I appreciate it.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 7:05:01 GMT
I do not believe that I, or most liberals I personally know, have over-the-top, reactionary, skewed comprehension or interpretation...perspectives. There are enough here on this board that do, that it affects the number of right leaning participants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 7:09:55 GMT
And the kids who were for Hillary and who denigrate people who support any part of the current agenda do not have very narrow views of the world? They have the experience to generalize or look beyond their own little worlds? They are not still wet behind the ears and naive in their own rights? <These are real, snarkless questions, but you do not need to respond. It's OK. We're talking about kids that you know. I'm content to leave these thoughts here as something for any person who may be reading along to ponder. > Yes, there are all kinds of people with crazy ideas and I've no doubt that there are a number of these groups near you. I don't agree with them any more than you do. The very real problem is that these radical and hate-inspired groups are not intermixed with the typical, everyday person who may support at least some portion of the current agenda. It isn't rational to judge innocent people by the actions or beliefs of others just because they voted for the same 1 of 2 serious presidential candidates. Let me repeat that. There were 2 presidential candidates that had any chance of winning the presidency on election night in Nov 2016. All of the people who voted for or who in some way are happy now for the election of the 1 are not alike. Again, FC, I know you know this and I know that you try very hard to remain calm, reasonable and open. It must be trying to be around some of the people you are around and it would wear on me as well. Thank you for still being you after all these years. I appreciate it. Regardless of their reasons for supporting trump, ultimately you can judge them by the fact they elected an unfit person to be president. Some actually did it twice, first in the primaries and then again in the general election. You could almost forgive them for this lapse of judgement on their part if trump had somehow hide how unfit he was, but he didn’t. It was up front and in your face. Let’s be clear here, his fitness is separate from his agenda. There are no innocents when it comes to those who voted for trump, regardless of why they claim they supported/voted for him in the first place. They all share in the blame.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 7:16:29 GMT
Right back at ya! You absolutely refuse—after YOU ASKED—to see the truth that your liberal counterparts have provided. They WERE NOT attacks towards nor were they “hate” as you’ve labeled it. They are real, bonafide facts and a Then you got your panties in a twist and stomped off declaring us deaf—no one has disputed the examples you’ve given, they answered YOUR question with examples in return.
Heed your own advice—“if you’re not hearing it, then it’s simply not registering being wrong to you. Which means you agree with it.”As someone who would be classified as quite liberal, comments like these are a big part of the problem. Mom26 did not get her panties in a twist and did not stomp off. I have read up to this post that I am quoting and she did nothing but state her responses, examples, and opinions and why she has them. Those on the other side refuted them, asked for clarification, requested others examples also, etc, etc. That is completely acceptable and is what discussion is about. However to be a little exasperated and disengage from the conversation, knowing that it is just going to go around and around is by no means getting your panties in a twist and stomping off. And classifying it as such does absolutely nothing to help the divisiveness and in turn looks like maybe you have your panties in a twist also. For full disclosure: I am a liberal, I lean to the left, I am an independent, I am agnostic at best but probably more of an atheist who has no problem with religion, I absolutely can not stand Trump, I am non-confrontational, I am pro choice, I am for gay marriage, I am against discrimination, and I voted for a Republican governor in my state over the democrat, who consequently was the first transgender person running for governor. And not because I was discriminating against her but because I thought her opponent would do a better job. This.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 7:26:13 GMT
No, they don't 'owe' it but isn't it reasonable to expect someone to be able to (or to want to) further discuss what they've put forward as an argument or their opinion, to be able to expand on their thoughts, to add their reasoning etc? What we've been told here repeatedly, when the "mean liberals" accusations start flying, is that they want to just have everyone state their opinions without anyone else disagreeing or questioning. No, what you've been repeatedly told is that many people now feel that whenever they give their thoughts it becomes a pile on that ends with liberals abandoning the topic in favor of personal attacks.
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May 17, 2024 21:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 7:58:10 GMT
Making an assumption about a person's political or racist views w/o harming them <> making an assumption about a woman's clothing TO THE EXTENT THAT SOMEONE USES THEIR CLOTHING CHOICES TO SEXUALLY ASSAULT THEM. Many people have been assaulted for wearing a MAGA hat.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jan 27, 2019 10:11:49 GMT
I feel that voting for Trump falls into a completely different category than voting for another Republican. I did not like or approve of GW Bush when he was President. But I never felt this nervous or apprehensive while he was in office. I feel that Trump is not up to the job, does not understand the job, and does not have the best interests of the country at heart. I have lived through many presidential elections,including Nixon and Reagan, and I have never felt this way about a president before.
I feel that Trump does not think things through, that he enjoys winning at all costs-I mean, let’s face it, he only caved on the shutdown because his ratings went into the toilet-and maybe worst of all, he has no idea what he’s doing. As Fred noted, although I dislike and disagree with his agenda, at the end of the day my chief concern is that he is unfit for the office. And I marvel that some don’t see that.
One of my brothers voted for Trump, because he hates Hillary. So yeah, even though I love my brother, I lost a lot of respect for him because of that vote. He probably feels the same way about me.
I live in a red state, and know many nice conservatives. We do not discuss politics, because there is no point, and I have to live here. But I DO judge them for their vote, because I believe that they have made this country unsafe by voting for this know-nothing narcissist.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 27, 2019 11:42:30 GMT
Finally, a point of order - can you and everyone else who does it please, please stop including long-ass quotes from news articles. Link to the article, mention a point of interest, and let us go down the rabbit hole ourselves. Those of us who read mostly on our phones cannot easily follow a long post that also includes long quotes. Pull out shorter quotes, make your point and move on. Anyone interested in context can open the actual article. | |
I can't tell you how many times I've seen peas swiped at for doing just that. Some people really really don't like that and will use it to dismiss the anything you have to say because you couldn't possibly know what you're talking about if you don't include everything in context. Providing the link would do that.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 12:58:17 GMT
Making an assumption about a person's political or racist views w/o harming them <> making an assumption about a woman's clothing TO THE EXTENT THAT SOMEONE USES THEIR CLOTHING CHOICES TO SEXUALLY ASSAULT THEM. Many people have been assaulted for wearing a MAGA hat. Then that is WRONG. Just as it is WRONG to assault someone for wearing a pussy hat. Again BOTH SIDES do everything. The question is always IN WHAT PERCENTAGES.
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 27, 2019 15:29:19 GMT
I do not believe that I, or most liberals I personally know, have over-the-top, reactionary, skewed comprehension or interpretation...perspectives. There are enough here on this board that do, that it affects the number of right leaning participants. oh I do. I see it all the time. But what I see as reactionary and over the top, those just see it as right. Because that is who they are. And I believe it widens the divide and makes people dig their heels in and sometimes turn even further because of it
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