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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Feb 2, 2019 22:47:40 GMT
Regardless of what the State Department says, I wouldn't be encouraging my DD to travel there. I say that as a seasoned expat who has lived in some rough spots. I wouldn't agree to DD traveling there. Not a safe spot.
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Post by kenziekeeper on Feb 2, 2019 22:59:33 GMT
I would absolutely encourage study abroad, but definitely not Morocco. Could you offer to look through other options with her and see if there is something that would be a better fit? A J-term or summer option would probably be more fesible for her both distance wise and financially.
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anniebeth24
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,546
Jun 26, 2014 14:12:17 GMT
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Post by anniebeth24 on Feb 2, 2019 23:37:20 GMT
DS is currently on a semester abroad. His fees for the semester were equal to an on-campus semester of tuition and room/board. His school includes several excursions, plane ticket, a SIM card for his phone. I was surprised at everything they included.
His scholarships and aid all applied as though he was on-campus.
Morocco? Yikes. But I wouldn't assume that it's going to be a great extra cost.
Best of luck with the situation.
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Post by hop2 on Feb 2, 2019 23:54:16 GMT
My DD studied abroad twice. She earned the money herself so it isn't like we paid extra for it. And as far as far away, my DD studied in Japan, literally the other side of the world. And she was fine, and she plans on going back to study again. ' As for Morocco itself i believe allipeas lives there, she could probably give you some insight
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Feb 3, 2019 0:01:01 GMT
My DD studied abroad twice. She earned the money herself so it isn't like we paid extra for it. And as far as far away, my DD studied in Japan, literally the other side of the world. And she was fine, and she plans on going back to study again. ' As for Morocco itself i believe allipeas lives there, she could probably give you some insight Huge difference between Japan and Morocco though. Japan is one of the safest countries in the world. 7 year olds travel on city trains by themselves. Morocco though - totally different story.
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Post by beaglemom on Feb 3, 2019 0:42:05 GMT
I have a good friend that went for a semester during her masters program and fell in love. With the country and her now husband. 1.5 kids later she has been living in Kenitra, Morocco since 2012. But she also did 2 years in the Peace Corps in Kiribati. I would be more worried about the fact that she couldn't deal with going to school far away than the destination that she picked.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Feb 3, 2019 1:40:04 GMT
Can you sell her on Japan? It’s so much safer. Even China is safer.
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Post by buddysmom on Feb 3, 2019 2:23:35 GMT
I would not recommend this for someone who does not have a lot of travel experience.
My DD did a semester abroad in Germany and loved it. She had traveled extensively prior to that and made the most of it--she went to another country almost every weekend!
I would suggest she study abroad but more of a mainstream country in Europe such as Spain, Germany, England, etc.
ETA--I went to Morocco for a day trip from southern Spain when I was 15. It was really cool, I rode a camel, got my photo taken with a giant snake around my neck! But that was in the 70's way before all the stuff that has happened since.
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Post by tallgirl on Feb 3, 2019 3:54:42 GMT
Just curious, on what basis does everyone feel Morocco is so unsafe? We are traveling there next month and frankly I feel safer doing that than heading into the US these days. Violent crime is extremely rare there.
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Post by Basket1lady on Feb 3, 2019 4:07:01 GMT
Just curious, on what basis does everyone feel Morocco is so unsafe? We are traveling there next month and frankly I feel safer doing that than heading into the US these days. Violent crime is extremely rare there. DH works with this everyday. He can’t really talk about it, but his immediate answer was “absolutely not.” If you click on the blog link that Darcy Collins posted, you get an idea of what a young, inexperienced woman would be up against. I might visit for a short time, but not for months on end. And I would never go anywhere alone. Anywhere. Half the population doesn’t respect a woman’s right to say no. That’s enough for me to know I wouldn’t want to live there for any length of time and I definitely don’t want to send my 19 year old DD there.
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Post by beanbuddymom on Feb 3, 2019 11:15:16 GMT
For those of you questioning, why Morocco, can I convince her of another country - it's because her school (University of New England) has a campus there. She would be able to take all of her classes for the semester there without losing any time.
I thank you for your responses. I feel badly that there is not another option for her. There are other countries offered in the school (Iceland, Spain, France) but her program of studies are not offered there so she wouldn't be able to take any of her classes there. This is the only one with a full campus and dorms. She insists the campus is safe, and while that I am sure is safe enough, the fact of the matter is that she won't be staying on campus the entire 4 months and in fact learning more about this, since they don't have classes Friday are encouraged to explore the city over the weekend or venture off to anywhere else, (with other students, not with any sort of guide) DH, though he called around to a few friends and found one whose nephew had attended the program over there but still agrees with me that he didn't want his daughter going there in the current state that it is in right now, safety wise. So that's where we stand, and I feel more confident now with my decision.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 2:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 14:18:59 GMT
Sorry for the late reply. DH and family run several schools here and we are soooooooooooooooooooo busy that I barely have a moment to spare. I think most of you know that I am not on TP as much as before. We are doing great with the businesses, but dang, sucks all of your time.
First, I am really, really curious as to where so many of you are getting your info that this is such a dangerous place to live? I see that one pea's DH works here, and honestly, I am curious as to where. As with ANY where you go in the world, there is certainly safety issues depending on WHERE you go. I have lived here 6 years now. All of our schools are in NON-tourist areas. Some of which are quite frankly in the hood. I always keep my wits about me, but I can only pinpoint one instance that I felt unsafe. That involved teenagers that kicked a soccer ball in the street that my car ran over and them running after my car yelling.
I absolutely had my own misconceptions of Morocco before moving here. Especially the people that covered and the men that had the long beards that looked like they came straight out of an ISIS camp. As a matter of fact, we have a couple of male Islamic teachers that we are required to hire, because Islamic education is a requirement in the schools here. The first time, I met "Y", I literally gasped because he had the typical long black beard. I didn't know at the time that he was only 24 years old. As I got to know "Y", he is the BIGGEST teddy bear of a person I have ever met. We have a good natured time trying to teach each other's language. My key point, is that even if you "think" you know someone or some place or a culture, until you are "IN" it, you simply cannot judge the appearance.
Let me also address that killings of the students that happened a couple of months ago. I have a very dear friend, American by the way, who runs a food tour business in Marrakech with her husband. She has been to the place where the students where killed many times. She knows people that live in that area as well and these people are devastated that this horrible incident happened. There is still quite a bit of speculation as to whether it was politically motivated. The "ISIS" word was thrown in pretty early because of how one of the guys looked. Please do not misinterpert my statement that I am victim blaming...but do understand that these two ladies went to a remote area not visited by tourists. Even for the time that I have lived here AND knowing the language pretty well, I would NOT put myself in that remote environment. I can think of some places in the States that would not be safe for two young girls to go, especially when there may be drugs involved.
I honestly feel quite safe here. We live in Rabat where the main palace is and all the embassies. There is quite a lot of security focused here because of that. But we have been so many places in Morocco and even if you don't see uniformed police, there are people watching. Morocco actually has helped some European countries in the battle against terrorism because they are good at the methods in which they employ. This is not to say that there isn't petty crime. Pick pocketing is a common occurence and people do have phones snatched out of their hands at times. Again, I don't find it to be anymore than any other place in the world.
Honestly, I am so tired of the "Middle Eastern males dominate females into horrible submisson" comments by people that simply don't live in the culture or countries. YES, YES, there are a FEW countries that this attitude might be more prevalant, but IMO it boils to a lack of education, poverty and enviromental factors that breed this attitude. I challange those of you that think this way to look in your own backyard. Do women get heckled here? Sure. Do they not get heckled in the US or other countries? Yep!
All of this boils down to using common sense on where you go.
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 3, 2019 14:19:46 GMT
For those of you questioning, why Morocco, can I convince her of another country - it's because her school (University of New England) has a campus there. She would be able to take all of her classes for the semester there without losing any time. I thank you for your responses. I feel badly that there is not another option for her. There are other countries offered in the school (Iceland, Spain, France) but her program of studies are not offered there so she wouldn't be able to take any of her classes there. This is the only one with a full campus and dorms. She insists the campus is safe, and while that I am sure is safe enough, the fact of the matter is that she won't be staying on campus the entire 4 months and in fact learning more about this, since they don't have classes Friday are encouraged to explore the city over the weekend or venture off to anywhere else, (with other students, not with any sort of guide) DH, though he called around to a few friends and found one whose nephew had attended the program over there but still agrees with me that he didn't want his daughter going there in the current state that it is in right now, safety wise. So that's where we stand, and I feel more confident now with my decision. Maybe she could still do some sort of study abroad program in the future, such as one-month language study or something like that. My ds went to the Alliance Française program in Lyon, France last summer...it's six weeks and it got him two semesters of language classes for his university. They're required to take four semesters so he took two in Georgia then got the two semesters by being in Lyon. The daughter of a friend of mine went to Scotland for some sort of 4-week computer class, also through her university. There are a lot of these out there.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 2:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 14:41:35 GMT
beanbuddymom I wanted to reply separately to you with more specific info. I believe you said the campus is in Tangier, no? Honestly, Tangier is a safe place. There is a high degree of tourism there, so it's not as if she will be out of place. I have friends that live there and honestly, I have not heard of problems there. The biggest concern that I would think your daughter would have is the language barrier. While you might find in the tourist places, people that have a better ability to speak some English, it is different than living here and having to get groceries and medicine and the like. Here in Rabat, we have access to decent medical facilities, but I would venture to say that it is certainly not the caliber you have in the States. Does she have any medical conditions that might need special attention? Again, most of the doctors here speak French, but you are lucky to find one that speaks English. Does she speak French? Most Moroccans speak French and Arabic. It is not uncommon to find people in the north, especially in Tangier that speak Spanish as well. I believe a pea mentioned about being harrassed in the "souk", these are the touristy market places. Absolutely, tourists get hassled to buy things, but in the six years that I have lived here, I have not heard of any of my expat friends being hassled for anything other than to come buy something. Even for myself, I always make sure to carry a pouch that goes over my shoulder that I can keep my money and phone and such close to my body. It is the same info that you would tell anyone travelling abroad. I am a big supporter of travelling abroad and opening oneself to other cultures. I am curious as to why you think your daughter is less safe here than on a university campus that might be located across country. Language is the one issue that I see might be a problem. I absolutely love living here and feel comfortable and safe. Guns are illegal here except for police and military. If you have more specific questions, please feel free to PM me or ask them here. I am more than happy to help you in any way and provide any information that you need.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 2:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 14:42:12 GMT
How experienced a traveller is your dd? Is she a bit streetwise or more naive? That would play into my decision and I'm a big believer in the benefits of travelling to other countries and cultures. She's only traveled a few road trips with family so not much at all. Not streetwise as far as I would like, though I've been working with her for years on this, I think she's more naive than I would feel necessary for that. She keeps telling me that the school wouldn't send them there if it were unsafe. Sigh. I think she has a point though don't you? It's the University's own campus attached to the American School of Tangiers. I doubt very much that they would send their students there if it was as unsafe as your perceived fears. According to google............. In January 2014, UNE opened a campus in Tangier, Morocco, within the campus of the American School of Tangier. The UNE campus consists of two buildings—one for academic programming and the other for student and staff housing. One needs to be vigilant and a bit " street wise" whichever foreign country one visits, heck I think we should all be vigilant in our own countries when out and about, especially in places that we are not familiar with. I would guess that the university has a talk with all their overseas students as to what not to do ,how not to behave and where not to go, in any country surely. Serious crime is relatively low in Morocco, petty crime such as pick pocketing goes on in the same way as in other large cities with a high number of tourists. Touting, I agree, is annoying but being firm in your " No thank you" and walking on confidently usually takes care of the matter. It's a way of life for them where they earn commission for either selling or directing them to a business. The abhorrent murder of the two Scandinavian girls recently was an act of terrorism that can, and has happened, in other countries, even the ones you think that are safe.In fact, according to most reports this is the first by terrorist that has happened in Morocco since the restaurant bomb in Marrakesh in 2011. Reading your earlier posts your daughter has no experience of travelling, not even in her own country, so maybe this coming year isn't the time for her to go abroad until she has gained a little more experience of travelling within her own country first, where everything is familiar to her. Would she be able to take a trip either on her own or with a friend, during her vacation, to somewhere in the US to see how she gets on and maybe go next year?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 3, 2019 15:03:19 GMT
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Post by auntkelly on Feb 3, 2019 15:40:01 GMT
Where exactly will she be traveling in Morocco and what are the arrangements, both for living and for any potential travel? I am a seasoned traveler and don't jump to putting my kids in a bubble, but I would be concerned if my daughter was planning to do any solo travel through Morocco. I've heard too many first hand accounts of behavior that can be very disruptive to any kind of enjoyment. It's also a big country, so I would be careful to not lump all experiences together - some cities seem to have more issues than others. I read a blog a while back about a solo travelers experience there and it repeated many of the issues friends have had - I'll see if I can find it. ETA found the article, I'd read the comments as well as it gives a sense of other people's experiences - both good and bad: www.neverendingfootsteps.com/travelling-morocco-solo-female/ After reading the blog post and the comments that follow, I wouldn’t feel comfortable letting my daughter study in Morocco. I would love to visit Morocco, but if I did, I’d go with a tour group. My husband and I like to travel on our own, but I wouldn’t do it in Morocco based on the comments of those travelers on that blog.
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Post by snowsilver on Feb 3, 2019 16:33:06 GMT
I have never been, but my DIL has. She is a very experienced traveler and she was there by herself. She absolutely loved the place but she DOES like haggling and she has so much experience the souk hagglers didn't bother her. She finds it fun. BUT she did have one disquieting experience and it was in a souk. She is a very pretty girl and was wandering around looking at things when a Moroccan woman suddenly attached herself to my DIL. She walked with her chatting for a bit and then quietly told her that she had not liked the way some men were eyeing my DIL and felt she was unsafe. So she came over and stayed with her until they disappeared finally. I thought it was so lovely of that lady, but even my DIL was a bit shook about it all and was more careful from then on.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,919
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Feb 3, 2019 16:54:58 GMT
I’m a seasoned traveler in my 50s. Back when I was in college I studied abroad in Spain and Italy. Great experiences. Lots of going out at night and drinking legal over 18. I have been to Morocco and enjoyed it. Would I be thrilled if my daughter wanted to go there? Nope! Try to steer her towards a European country. As a student she is going to want a place with good public transportation. My concern would not be terrorism but a young woman going out at night, perhaps drinking and getting into an unsafe situation. While women do wear western clothing I wouldn’t recommend wearing shorts or short skirts in order not to attract unwanted attention.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 2:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 18:01:48 GMT
People DO where shorts here! Maybe not the ones that have your fanny hanging out.
I wear a bathing suit to the beach even *GASP*
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 2:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 18:13:50 GMT
There are two things in particular that I really find in contrast to my experience here. First, covering is NOT required here and does not make a difference in how you are treated here. I really call BS on that. Lol @ “mama Africa”. That is not what they call women of color here. But whatever. The line about everyone here is sexually harassed is absolutely not true. I know some women here, that would beat the crap out of boys or young men that harassed them. What goes on here is not much different than you would find in the streets of other places in the world.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,613
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Feb 3, 2019 18:14:59 GMT
I understand your concerns - I have 4 daughters and they all have wanderlust. I was never bitten by that bug. Oldest studied abroad in Ireland (no big deal, right? No concerns there.) Daughter 2 has done trips to France, Panama, Ghana and Guatemala. Yeah, those last 3 had me holding my breath the entire time she was away.
The way I see it, you have two choices - research a whole lot more, talk to the professors and school about their safety protocols, talk to kids who've been on the program and find out facts about how things are for that program. Or two, forbid her to go without all that information. At least if you do the first, you'll be letting her know that you would like to give her the benefit of the doubt, are supporting her ideas and want to help. If you find, after researching it, that you just can't wrap your head around it, work with her on a summer away program or something like that in a place you feel better about.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 2:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 18:16:32 GMT
As I said before, I am more than happy to answer any specific questions you have.
It seems for some they already KNOW much more about the place than where I live.
Well, ok.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 3, 2019 18:22:18 GMT
I understand your concerns - I have 4 daughters and they all have wanderlust. I was never bitten by that bug. Oldest studied abroad in Ireland (no big deal, right? No concerns there.) Daughter 2 has done trips to France, Panama, Ghana and Guatemala. Yeah, those last 3 had me holding my breath the entire time she was away. The way I see it, you have two choices - research a whole lot more, talk to the professors and school about their safety protocols, talk to kids who've been on the program and find out facts about how things are for that program. Or two, forbid her to go without all that information. At least if you do the first, you'll be letting her know that you would like to give her the benefit of the doubt, are supporting her ideas and want to help. If you find, after researching it, that you just can't wrap your head around it, work with her on a summer away program or something like that in a place you feel better about. I think this is excellent advice. Get informed as much as you can from a variety of sources - including the ones from the school that will be directly involved in this specific scenario. Visiting as a tourist is different to living there and immersing yourself in it. I completely understand your concerns, although I think the point raised earlier that an American school wouldn't have an actual campus there if it wasn't vetted, is also valid.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 3, 2019 18:40:47 GMT
There are two things in particular that I really find in contrast to my experience here. First, covering is NOT required here and does not make a difference in how you are treated here. I really call BS on that. Lol @ “mama Africa”. That is not what they call women of color here. But whatever. The line about everyone here is sexually harassed is absolutely not true. I know some women here, that would beat the crap out of boys or young men that harassed them. What goes on here is not much different than you would find in the streets of other places in the world. I’ve several family members and friends who’ve traveled to Morocco - typically Tangiers as it’s so accessible to Spain although some traveled to other locations and extremely aggressive men is universally the biggest complaint. It was very consistent with the blog I posted on page 1 where they were heckled constantly and these are well traveled people. I wouldn’t be surprised if tourists are targeted more than residents and a 19 year old girl solo with zero travel experience would have a dramatically different experience than your daily life as a resident.
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 3, 2019 18:56:40 GMT
There are two things in particular that I really find in contrast to my experience here. First, covering is NOT required here and does not make a difference in how you are treated here. I really call BS on that. Lol @ “mama Africa”. That is not what they call women of color here. But whatever. The line about everyone here is sexually harassed is absolutely not true. I know some women here, that would beat the crap out of boys or young men that harassed them. What goes on here is not much different than you would find in the streets of other places in the world. It may be true that Moroccan women are not sexually harassed... but I remember my time in West Africa (yes, I understand that there is a distinct cultural different between West Africa and North Africa).... There was a stereotype about white western women, that we were "easy", party girls, etc. French tourists would come through wearing short shorts even in the rural areas where showing your legs was not a thing that was done, not ever. In the minds of rural Africans the only people who would ever show that much leg were the prostitutes in the capital. So seeing that was in the minds of *some* men when they saw a white woman. This meant that while African women were not harassed there were plenty of white women who were. So your experience as a resident there may be different from the experience of a young American college student who isn't very experienced in traveling.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 2:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 18:56:55 GMT
Ok, Darcy, you seem to be the expert.
I guess I will forgo my experiences of being in the souks AND seeing tourists and how they are treated.
What they are aggressive about in these places is getting people into their stalls to buy and make some money. I have been with my own friends and family that simply misinterpreted what was said because they don’t know the language.
Again, living here is a world of difference than a one week vacation.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 2:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 18:59:45 GMT
The majority of prostitutes here wear jalabas....definitely not short shorts.
Monk, where were you living in Morocco?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 3, 2019 19:43:38 GMT
Ok, Darcy, you seem to be the expert. I guess I will forgo my experiences of being in the souks AND seeing tourists and how they are treated. What they are aggressive about in these places is getting people into their stalls to buy and make some money. I have been with my own friends and family that simply misinterpreted what was said because they don’t know the language. Again, living here is a world of difference than a one week vacation. Of course it’s different - the question is would the the experience of a student staying for a few months be more like a tourist or a resident.
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Post by happymom on Feb 3, 2019 19:51:02 GMT
When my son studied abroad for a semester - his normal scholarship was in effect because it was a college program. Housing was a little more expensive and we gave him the same $ amount as if he was on a meal plan. He supplemented with his own savings and his spending money was high because he went out of the country almost every single weekend.
We visited him for a week while he was there so that was additional money.
1) he couldn’t work so lost income 2) his gpa dropped a little because he had so much fun
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