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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 20:32:47 GMT
You are absolutely right! Amazon doesn't need the tax breaks, it's incentive to get them to choose your town/state in order to provide your constituents thousands of jobs and trickle down jobs, bringing even more commerce to your town/state and the taxes raised from all of that. Except that’s not what often happens. Instead the company sucks up local resources without paying for those resources through taxes. People from outside the community are brought in for the jobs. Housing prices sky rocket. Community members are priced out of their own communities. The community is not getting the tax money from the business because of the incentives. Many communities end up not being able to find the extra community resources that are needed because they aren’t collecting tax money to provide them There are multiple issues both good and bad with having a company like Amazon locate in your area And let's not forget how many times companies overinflate the "job creation" numbers and then end up w/far less. Like the Foxconn bait and switch in Walker's WI: www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/jan/31/foxconn-reneging-on-plans-for-factory-2/"A major jobs deal that President Donald Trump has touted with former Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker now looks uncertain. Foxconn, a supplier for Apple and other technology firms, said it's scrapping plans to build a new factory in Wisconsin, opting to hire American engineers and researchers instead of thousands of blue-collar workers.... The Taiwanese technology juggernaut initially pledged in 2017 to construct a $10 billion liquid-crystal display-panel plant and create up to 13,000 factory jobs in the state's southeastern corner over the next 15 years. The positions would pay an average annual wage of $53,000, the firm said -- a solid salary in the manufacturing realm. Under the contract, however, Wisconsin would cancel some payouts if Foxconn did not stick to its word.
It had already fallen short last year, hiring 178 full-time employees rather than the 260 targeted, and failed to earn a state tax credit worth up to $9.5 million. Wisconsin state and local governments promised roughly $4 billion to Foxconn, the largest incentive in state history and the biggest pledged by a state to a foreign corporation in U.S. history. The deal drew criticism at the time after it emerged that Wisconsin would not make money for 25 years." Meanwhile to accommodate these new facilities, the govts need to improve the roads, add schools, add staffing/facilities for add'l court cases, etc - all stuff the rest of us pay for. At least Wisconsin'd deal looks like it reneges on the credits when/if Foxconn reneges on the jobs promised.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 1, 2019 20:47:27 GMT
I think that many are applying her comments to far across the board with what she said, instead of in the context of which the were said. When she made those comments, she was speaking to detractors —those having the “too big for her britches” attitude— who were all being negative, criticizing her, saying this won’t work, that won’t work, yet not offering anything towards addressing it. Within those same conversations she challenged others to come up with a plan. It’s not like she’s running around telling everyone to shut up, she’s the boss, she knows best. She’s not doing that. You know she’s getting under the conservatives skin when the Mercer’s pay for billboards in Times Square attacking her! I’m in the wait and see with her, see how effective she is, she’s definitely got a desire to get things moving along going for her. SHE hasn't even come up with a plan, just a list of fairy tale ideas with no plans on how to make them work and yet she's telling them to either come up with a plan or shut up, she's the boss in charge. Literally saying that. That's not a one off problem. Can you examine that and some of the other issues and understand why so many, even in her own party, have such a problem with her? Yep, it’s clear you’re not willing to even try to grasp it. Or actually read what I’ve commented on here. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 I’ll even go further —AOC is correct in the aspect that if you’re not offering up a plan, or something constructive—then you can just take a seat. Let those who want to work to make things better, solve some serious issues, anything in the direction of progress take the lead. Otherwise it’s going to continue to be ignored and suppressed. Conservatives are doing NOTHING. Absolutely ZERO on what she’s brought up so far. I don’t see you complaining about trump’s big tax cut for the wealthy—he didn’t (still doesn’t) have any idea how those funds are going to be made up/recovered, and it resulted in fucking over the middle class. Bernie is another one. His ideas are way out there, yet look how many supported him. Maybe it is a woman thing. Attacking her because she is a bold outspoken woman. And for the zillionth time—she stated “we’re in charge” meaning CONGRESS and the boss comments were tongue in cheek to a group of detractors who were attacking her, being negative, and doing nothing but criticizing. She did not give a blanket statement claiming that she was the boss over everything or that she knows better than anyone else or that she not open to suggestions input or help—she said as much. You really need to read the entire thing IN CONTEXT. And I’m aware that people don’t like her. She still has time to learn. And that’s a good thing, she’s shown she’s open to listening to her constituents—something most Republican congresspersons won’t do anymore. She’s not driven/funded/owned by corporate. I’ve stated she’s a wait and see/too soon to tell with me yet—but if she is effective—I’ll drive her bus!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 1, 2019 20:48:23 GMT
I think that many are applying her comments to far across the board with what she said, instead of in the context of which the were said. When she made those comments, she was speaking to detractors —those having the “too big for her britches” attitude— who were all being negative, criticizing her, saying this won’t work, that won’t work, yet not offering anything towards addressing it. Within those same conversations she challenged others to come up with a plan. It’s not like she’s running around telling everyone to shut up, she’s the boss, she knows best. She’s not doing that. You know she’s getting under the conservatives skin when the Mercer’s pay for billboards in Times Square attacking her! I’m in the wait and see with her, see how effective she is, she’s definitely got a desire to get things moving along going for her. SHE hasn't even come up with a plan, just a list of fairy tale ideas with no plans on how to make them work and yet she's telling them to either come up with a plan or shut up, she's the boss in charge. Literally saying that. That's not a one off problem. Can you examine that and some of the other issues and understand why so many, even in her own party, have such a problem with her? SHE has come up with more than Republicans in office have on this right now.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 1, 2019 20:53:14 GMT
If they are going to give tax breaks to corporate America, it should be based on the number of full time jobs offered with quality health insurance and they should be dependent on the median wage. If we want to talk about "job creation" and what a win adding jobs to the economy is, let's make sure companies are rewarded for good jobs. I’d like to explore a “performance based” type of incentive, instead of giving away the farm at the get go. You say you’re going to bring new 25,000 jobs into the community? We will give you $$$ tax break for each hire from within the community. Or something along those lines.
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Post by angel97701 on Mar 1, 2019 22:32:15 GMT
I believe that if someone, male or female made the statements that AOC has been making they would get the same type of press and reactions. As a freshman Representative she is making waves, and sometimes not doing her research before she speaks. Her statement in the videos was "I'm the boss" because she came up with the Green New Deal and no one else was addressing the issue. Her problem is that "We the people" are her boss, not the other way around. Some of the pundits of the plan have state it would cost every family in the US $65,000 per year for the next 10 years. This is above and beyond what we already pay in taxes . . . I know our family could not bear that tax burden. The Democrats need to be very careful about who and what they get behind.
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Post by Sharon on Mar 1, 2019 23:52:46 GMT
The sales tax goes to your state, not the location of the company making the sale (when you order from out of state). I know that but she was talking about Houston. Houston is in Texas and we pay sales tax on Amazon.
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Post by SockMonkey on Mar 2, 2019 0:39:30 GMT
I believe that if someone, male or female made the statements that AOC has been making they would get the same type of press and reactions. As a freshman Representative she is making waves, and sometimes not doing her research before she speaks. If you really want to be irritated, find out how many reps and senators actually read the bills that they're voting on... When it comes to "doing research," let's make sure we're holding her to the same standard that everyone else is being held to. Some of these folks just vote without even having info on bills, let alone reading them (as they're often HUNDREDS of pages long and apparently they can't be bothered).
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 2, 2019 0:53:13 GMT
This is true. The taxes they'd make off Amazon being located in their state, were exactly the things they were being asked to give up, in order to entice them there. Taxes that would also help the local/state economy, as much as jobs. I love Amazon, but the thought of a billion dollar company demanding those kind of enticements to locate their HQ somewhere, kind of doesn't sit real well with me either. They’re not a billion dollar company... they are nearly a $814 billion company (by market cap) and were a trillion dollar company toward the end of last year! Of course market cap is not cash, but they did spend over $22 billion on R&D in 2017 - way more than other tech giants. They can afford their HQ wherever they want it without the taxpayers having to give them huge tax breaks. Infrastructure, etc. will be required wherever they are and that will be on the taxpayers. That’s enough. I’m tired of the huge incentives to huge companies, frankly. LOL. Point conceded. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/MNrJDkDuSwqIMVw33MdD.jpg) I did mean multi-billion dollar company when I said, that - but putting the actual figures there in black and white - does really drive home just how insidious requests like that really are.
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Post by verdepea on Mar 2, 2019 18:37:29 GMT
The sales tax goes to your state, not the location of the company making the sale (when you order from out of state). I know that but she was talking about Houston. Houston is in Texas and we pay sales tax on Amazon. I am in Houston and I forgot we pay taxes now. This was my error.
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Post by verdepea on Mar 2, 2019 18:43:17 GMT
They’re not a billion dollar company... they are nearly a $814 billion company (by market cap) and were a trillion dollar company toward the end of last year! Of course market cap is not cash, but they did spend over $22 billion on R&D in 2017 - way more than other tech giants. They can afford their HQ wherever they want it without the taxpayers having to give them huge tax breaks. Infrastructure, etc. will be required wherever they are and that will be on the taxpayers. That’s enough. I’m tired of the huge incentives to huge companies, frankly. LOL. Point conceded. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/MNrJDkDuSwqIMVw33MdD.jpg) I did mean multi-billion dollar company when I said, that - but putting the actual figures there in black and white - does really drive home just how insidious requests like that really are. Thank you. If you are a 800 billion dollar company it's not okay to make the layperson pay all the taxes.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Mar 2, 2019 19:33:16 GMT
My feeling about the Amazon HQ location is that Amazon could do something really positive and put that huge complex in a city that needs jobs and NOT require the state and local governments to subsidize it. Choose a non-traditional (not on a coast or in New England) location, embrace its unique attributes, and help it transform into the global headquarters it needs to be. Amazon can afford to build whatever it wants and even help the local community build the roads, schools, etc. it'll need to support the HQ. Being a decent corporate citizen would create a great environment for the thousands of employees living locally (and posting globally), and would surely make finding cities for subsequent locations much easier. As for AOC, the Right needs to make up its mind. Either she's a ditzy, fluffy, dancing, newbie who doesn't know what she's doing and should keep her mouth shut till she's learned from her betters, or she's a big ol' badass who singlehandedly scared off the Amazon Corporation. Make up your damn mind, people. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Q_m8lDOvc_3Le3r1GKdf.jpg)
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Mar 2, 2019 19:52:04 GMT
And yes, I know corporations owe it to their stockholders to make as much money as possible, and that's why they should take advantage of tax breaks & loopholes. (Much of my retirement is in stocks. I get it.)
But here's an example that irritates me. I live in a relatively small semi-rural area that's between two large cities. FedEx choose us for a distribution center a few years ago. Yay us! Of course, we gave them lots of those tax breaks and zoning variances and probably other things. At some point, FedEx will start paying local tax and the moolah will come rolling in. Waiting...
In the mean time, we're still putting school levies and police levies and fire levies and such on just about every ballot. (Levies we might not need if FedEx were paying us taxes on the money its making in our city.)
The huge FedEx trucks trash the roads they use in & out of their center on the way to the interstate. The city roads get repaired by our crews (we had local street repair levy a year or two ago, BTW) and the ones outside our city get repaired by the county.
And, coincidentally, we're getting an Amazon distribution center about 45 minutes away. So, not in our city, but close enough that I can try Amazon Grocery or whatever it is that you need to be within 2 hours of a distribution center to use.
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Deleted
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Jun 16, 2024 8:03:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 20:04:07 GMT
My feeling about the Amazon HQ location is that Amazon could do something really positive and put that huge complex in a city that needs jobs and NOT require the state and local governments to subsidize it. Choose a non-traditional (not on a coast or in New England) location, embrace its unique attributes, and help it transform into the global headquarters it needs to be. Amazon can afford to build whatever it wants and even help the local community build the roads, schools, etc. it'll need to support the HQ. Being a decent corporate citizen would create a great environment for the thousands of employees living locally (and posting globally), and would surely make finding cities for subsequent locations much easier. As for AOC, the Right needs to make up its mind. Either she's a ditzy, fluffy, dancing, newbie who doesn't know what she's doing and should keep her mouth shut till she's learned from her betters, or she's a big ol' badass who singlehandedly scared off the Amazon Corporation. Make up your damn mind, people. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Q_m8lDOvc_3Le3r1GKdf.jpg) No one said she did it single handedly.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 2, 2019 20:26:16 GMT
My feeling about the Amazon HQ location is that Amazon could do something really positive and put that huge complex in a city that needs jobs and NOT require the state and local governments to subsidize it. Choose a non-traditional (not on a coast or in New England) location, embrace its unique attributes, and help it transform into the global headquarters it needs to be. Amazon can afford to build whatever it wants and even help the local community build the roads, schools, etc. it'll need to support the HQ. Being a decent corporate citizen would create a great environment for the thousands of employees living locally (and posting globally), and would surely make finding cities for subsequent locations much easier. As for AOC, the Right needs to make up its mind. Either she's a ditzy, fluffy, dancing, newbie who doesn't know what she's doing and should keep her mouth shut till she's learned from her betters, or she's a big ol' badass who singlehandedly scared off the Amazon Corporation. Make up your damn mind, people. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Q_m8lDOvc_3Le3r1GKdf.jpg) No one said she did it single handedly. It was state and local entities/law makers who first had issues with the Amazon deal.
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Post by smasonnc on Mar 2, 2019 23:22:39 GMT
$25 billion dollars comes into the community. Workers spend money for homes, entertainment, services, make charitable contributions and pay sales tax and state and federal income tax. The establishments with whom they do business prosper and they spend money and pay taxes in the community and so on. For this, Amazon gets a tax credit of $3 billion if the uphold their part of the bargain. Many other municipalities were courting this deal because they saw its value.
AOC displayed an alarming lack of understanding of how this all works. She seems to think there is some big pot of money with $3 billion that they can spend on other things. She doesn’t seem to have a solid grasp on how to pay for anything. I’d love to do some of the things she proposes, but where do we get the money and how do we get the rest of the world to cooperate?
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Post by gar on Mar 2, 2019 23:31:47 GMT
and how do we get the rest of the world to cooperate? What do you want us to cooperate with?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 0:15:21 GMT
I think you might have got that the wrong way round. It's not that the rest of the world needs to co-operate with the US but that the US needs to co-operate with the rest of the world. What exactly is the US government doing towards the environmental issues that are affecting everyone on this planet that you seem to think that the rest of the world are not doing?
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Post by smasonnc on Mar 3, 2019 2:20:47 GMT
[quoteWhat exactly is the US government doing towards the environmental issues that are affecting everyone on this planet that you seem to think that the rest of the world are not doing?[/quote]
The US isn’t doing nearly enough, but in a large part of the world the environmental challenges are really dire. We lived in Hong Kong and traveled through Asia. We tried not to eat anything from China because their soil and water are so polluted. We did massive beach cleanups and a week later, the beach would be full of debris washed up from mounds of trash in the ocean. Pollution from vehicles and manufacturing plants make it he air awful in big cities. Plastic waste, hazardous waste disposal and other environmental issues are not a priority because so many countries are just at subsistence level.
We can do the Green New Deal if we can figure out how to pay for it, but we’re spitting in the wind without worldwide cooperation.
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Post by katiejane on Mar 3, 2019 13:16:25 GMT
[quoteWhat exactly is the US government doing towards the environmental issues that are affecting everyone on this planet that you seem to think that the rest of the world are not doing? The US isn’t doing nearly enough, but in a large part of the world the environmental challenges are really dire. We lived in Hong Kong and traveled through Asia. We tried not to eat anything from China because their soil and water are so polluted. We did massive beach cleanups and a week later, the beach would be full of debris washed up from mounds of trash in the ocean. Pollution from vehicles and manufacturing plants make it he air awful in big cities. Plastic waste, hazardous waste disposal and other environmental issues are not a priority because so many countries are just at subsistence level. We can do the Green New Deal if we can figure out how to pay for it, but we’re spitting in the wind without worldwide cooperation. [/quote]I am still not sure what everyone else is not doing that US is doing? How are we holding you back?
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
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Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Mar 3, 2019 14:17:15 GMT
[quoteWhat exactly is the US government doing towards the environmental issues that are affecting everyone on this planet that you seem to think that the rest of the world are not doing? I believe it is the US who withdrew from the Paris Agreement, the climate agreement that has worldwide cooperation.
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Post by Merge on Mar 3, 2019 14:24:37 GMT
[quoteWhat exactly is the US government doing towards the environmental issues that are affecting everyone on this planet that you seem to think that the rest of the world are not doing? The US isn’t doing nearly enough, but in a large part of the world the environmental challenges are really dire. We lived in Hong Kong and traveled through Asia. We tried not to eat anything from China because their soil and water are so polluted. We did massive beach cleanups and a week later, the beach would be full of debris washed up from mounds of trash in the ocean. Pollution from vehicles and manufacturing plants make it he air awful in big cities. Plastic waste, hazardous waste disposal and other environmental issues are not a priority because so many countries are just at subsistence level. We can do the Green New Deal if we can figure out how to pay for it, but we’re spitting in the wind without worldwide cooperation. I am still not sure what everyone else is not doing that US is doing? How are we holding you back?[/quote] I'm guessing she's taking about big polluters like China and India. I think it's folly, though, to think that just because developing countries are not on board yet, that we in the developed world should just sit on our hands.
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Post by hop2 on Mar 3, 2019 14:28:55 GMT
The US isn’t doing nearly enough, but in a large part of the world the environmental challenges are really dire. We lived in Hong Kong and traveled through Asia. We tried not to eat anything from China because their soil and water are so polluted. We did massive beach cleanups and a week later, the beach would be full of debris washed up from mounds of trash in the ocean. Pollution from vehicles and manufacturing plants make it he air awful in big cities. Plastic waste, hazardous waste disposal and other environmental issues are not a priority because so many countries are just at subsistence level. We can do the Green New Deal if we can figure out how to pay for it, but we’re spitting in the wind without worldwide cooperation. Well China has even made steps to co-operate now. Especially since thecUS is taking many giant steps backwards and taking any steps forward makes China look good. So right now Europe is spitting into the wind because the USA won’t co-operate with them
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Post by katiejane on Mar 3, 2019 15:38:35 GMT
That's what I wondered, I think the UN is moving forward. It was the US, Kuwait and Russia who refused the Paris agreement. One other I can't remember who. But I certainly don't think from this side of the Atlantic that we are holding the US back. I kinda think we are working on it and the US is just refusing.
We might be spitting in the wind, but at least we are trying. The UK has had legislation looking at reducing climate change for a decade and we are aiming for the 2050 deadline. Things have changed here. Not as quick as I would like. But changing, none the less. And individually as a family we are campaigning and doing our bit.
Yes the green deal is a list of ideas, but it's time to find ways to get there. We need to be ambitious now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 16:22:40 GMT
I can't seem to get the quote button to work smasonnc The world is much larger than China and Asia and in no way can be referred to as " in a large part of the world"whilst I agree that China does have a pollution problem they are in fact actively addressing the problem. Unlike the US administration at the moment, who have withdrawn from the Paris Agreement( that even China is part of), actively promote the use of fossil fuel and who thinks the scientific evidence is a load of baloney and their plan to reverse the Clean Power Plan ( unless they have done so already). There's little wonder that the rest of the world isn't co-operating with their actions. You do realise that oceans don't have walls don't you? The trash you gather in one country isn't necessarily created by that country. It could very well be someone else's trash and very often is. Check out the reports of what is happening in Chester Pennsylvania regarding the disposal of plastic waste since China has put in place a ban on accepting/importing your plastic and contaminated waste. LINKSo "Plastic waste, hazardous waste disposal and other environmental issues are not a priority because so many countries are just at subsistence level" what is the excuse of one of the richest countries in the world?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 22:20:41 GMT
You don’t have to like her or agree with her but I am sick and goddamn tired of people talking about her like she’s a child. JFC she’s a grown woman who was rightfully elected. Speak of her as such, not like your bratty neighbor child. That is hilarious.
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Post by frenchie on Mar 7, 2019 13:34:24 GMT
I can't seem to get the quote button to work smasonnc The world is much larger than China and Asia and in no way can be referred to as " in a large part of the world"whilst I agree that China does have a pollution problem they are in fact actively addressing the problem. Unlike the US administration at the moment, who have withdrawn from the Paris Agreement( that even China is part of), actively promote the use of fossil fuel and who thinks the scientific evidence is a load of baloney and their plan to reverse the Clean Power Plan ( unless they have done so already). There's little wonder that the rest of the world isn't co-operating with their actions. You do realise that oceans don't have walls don't you? The trash you gather in one country isn't necessarily created by that country. It could very well be someone else's trash and very often is. Check out the reports of what is happening in Chester Pennsylvania regarding the disposal of plastic waste since China has put in place a ban on accepting/importing your plastic and contaminated waste. LINKSo "Plastic waste, hazardous waste disposal and other environmental issues are not a priority because so many countries are just at subsistence level" what is the excuse of one of the richest countries in the world? China has banned the import of plastics and contaminated waste from the U.K. and other countries as well. It's obviously a huge problem-other countries, like Turkey for example, are importing it, but it will catch up with them eventually. Incinerating it is a whole other issue, as shown in the article you linked. Certain states here have been able to ban certain plastics, hopefully we can keep that trend going.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 15:14:34 GMT
Her problem is that "We the people" are her boss, not the other way around. Some of the pundits of the plan have state it would cost every family in the US $65,000 per year for the next 10 years. This is above and beyond what we already pay in taxes . . . I know our family could not bear that tax burden. The Democrats need to be very careful about who and what they get behind. That is how I feel. Was she promoting similar ideas while running? Is she supporting what her constituents want? Honest question.
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Deleted
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Jun 16, 2024 8:03:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 16:16:10 GMT
Her problem is that "We the people" are her boss, not the other way around. Some of the pundits of the plan have state it would cost every family in the US $65,000 per year for the next 10 years. This is above and beyond what we already pay in taxes . . . I know our family could not bear that tax burden. The Democrats need to be very careful about who and what they get behind. That is how I feel. Was she promoting similar ideas while running? Is she supporting what her constituents want? Honest question. No, she doesn't appear to be. The majority were in favor of Amazon headquarters and she appears to be taking the "Nevermind what you want, I know what's best for you." way of representing her constituents.
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