trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 30, 2019 1:22:27 GMT
Absolutely not! I paid my student loan back myself. I see too many students that can’t find a job after college turn around and get a masters to defer having to make payments on their student loans. They dig themselves a deeper hole. My neighbor told me that if student loans weren’t so easy to get fewer people would be able to go to college which would drive college tuition down. I don’t disagree with that theory. This doesn't make sense. Less students would mean higher tuition rates. Supply/Demand.
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Post by mom on Jun 30, 2019 1:23:02 GMT
No way should the government wipe out student loans. I would support giving community colleges more federal money to encourage students to go there first to get their basics or learn a trade.
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Post by chaosisapony on Jun 30, 2019 1:40:44 GMT
Absolutely not. To be honest, just the fact that this has come up as an issue has pissed me off.
It makes me sick to my stomach watching people get out of debt they agreed to simply because it's not convenient to pay it back. Meanwhile, people that work their butts off and actually need help get the shaft time and time again.
I remember back in 2009 watching 2 friends voluntarily entering the foreclosure process because they would MAKE MONEY doing it through all the programs that were going on at that time. They lived in their house for just over a year without making a single mortgage payment. At the end, when they turned their keys in they were given $3,000 from the bank for not destroying the house.
A coworker a couple of years ago filed bankruptcy. She had thousands of dollars in credit card debt. All of which was department store cards because she "had to" (her words) have specific brands of clothing and make up. So she got all that stuff for free and within just a couple months of the bankruptcy finishing she got new cards and the boxes of clothes and make up and shoes started rolling in again.
College is not a necessity and it is not a right. If you cannot afford it then you don't go or you figure it out. Get a job, take a few classes here or there, don't go out of state, live at home not at a dorm, etc. If taking out a loan is part of your plan then you MAKE YOUR PAYMENTS. Yes, the costs have gotten astronomically high and I do think something should be done about that. But bottom line is, the student chose to take out the loan(s) and they need to be responsible and pay them back.
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Post by scraphop on Jun 30, 2019 1:42:45 GMT
What I meant is that if it was harder to get student loans, fewer people would go to college and demand would decrease. With decreased demand the prices (tuition) would decrease as colleges have to get more competitive to get those dollars.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 15, 2024 18:23:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 2:00:03 GMT
My advice, avoid going out of state and avoid going to a state "flagship" Why? Because the undergraduate tuition is used to support the doctoral level research. You aren't supporting a better college education for your undergrad. You are supporting a better research facility for doctoral candidates. University standings are largely tied to the number of doctorates they produce.
Yes, tuition has gotten very high. But expectations on what services must be provided and at what pace has increased exponentially as well. Most faculty isn't paid an exorbitant salary. I know in some states the state funding has been heavily cut as well. When I started my job in 2007 the state provided 75% of the cost of running the university so tuition was low. This past year the state only provided 23% of our budget.
For people willing to serve in the military there already Is a student debt forgiveness program. That is how my ex got his student loans paid off. Or serve first and have a GI bill to pay it later along with a stipend for living expenses. That is how my kids have paid for college. I think it could be expanded to students willing to work in rural/low income areas where their degree is needed (health care, social work, teaching)
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 30, 2019 2:43:24 GMT
I have mixed feelings. Part of me knows that student debt is crushing people, but for the people who did pay and did without for years get nothing?
If we decide to make colleges free, will they turn into high schools where almost everyone gets a diploma? Lots of things to ponder.
Today my kid got his college diploma in the mail. I told my husband it was one of the most expensive pieces of paper ever to come in the mail. But the money he will make in a year or two that he wouldn't be able to make without that diploma will pay for the education. We made him live in the dorms his first year, but after that, he said he'd rather save the money and live at home. Years 2-4 were half of what it would have cost to live away from home.
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Post by chaosisapony on Jun 30, 2019 3:18:10 GMT
For people willing to serve in the military there already Is a student debt forgiveness program. That is how my ex got his student loans paid off. Or serve first and have a GI bill to pay it later along with a stipend for living expenses. That is how my kids have paid for college. I think it could be expanded to students willing to work in rural/low income areas where their degree is needed (health care, social work, teaching) I think this is a great option that gets overlooked. A previous client of mine actually just enlisted. It was shocking to hear. She is in her early 30s with two small children. But, she has $160,000 in student loans and her family has run out of options. After four years of service the military said her loans will be paid in full and she goes in as an officer. I'm curious to see how everything works out for her.
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SabrinaP
Pearl Clutcher
Busy Teacher Pea
Posts: 4,360
Location: Dallas Texas
Jun 26, 2014 12:16:22 GMT
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Post by SabrinaP on Jun 30, 2019 3:38:05 GMT
No, let’s focus our attention and money into making college more affordable, funding more federal grants, work study programs, and low interest (or no interest) loans. Let’s put more money into vocational programs as well. There are much better uses for the government’s money that erasing student loan debt!
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Post by BSnyder on Jun 30, 2019 4:29:17 GMT
see that isn't right. I also knew people during my undergrad time that used the left over from their loans to take a trip for spring break. Although they may be more stingy in their loans now. Ds only qualified for the minimum which was about $5000. Apparently they think we should be able to afford $23,000 per year on our own. (Which we probably could have saved for had we not had $1000/month loan payments of our own) Our EFC is $60K/year. Can you even imagine? That's my entire salary before taxes and insurance - AND we have another kid starting college in two years. The problem with our FAFSA system is that it doesn't take into account if you spent the first fifteen years of your marriage busting your asses to pay off student loans instead of saving for your own kids' college. It seems to assume that what you make now, you've been making for decades, debt-free. And that's laughable in our case. We were Goodwill shopping only and eating beans and rice POOR when our kids were small, in large part due to student loan debt - and no, we didn't go to any fancy schools and we both worked multiple jobs during grad school, where the bulk of our loans came from. So now my kid gets to go to the lower-cost state school we can actually afford, because I'll be damned if I let her take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans and mortgage her entire young adulthood to pay them off. I know we are very lucky that we can pay for her to go even to local state U, as many can't, but I admit it's frustrating to see many of her friends swan off to fancy private school on a need-based aid package. Something has to give. Not every person is suited for the trades, and hardworking kids who want to pursue professional careers should be able to make that happen without signing over their twenties and thirties (or longer) to pay off the government. This needs to be addressed. All the boomers screaming about how unfair it is should consider that you and I are working not only to pay our own kids' college but to make sure their social security checks keep coming long after they've run through their own contributions. Gen X is getting screwed from both ends these days. Everything you said is our story too. The only upside for us was that we only had my loans. DH went into the military under the GI bill to pay for his college. It took us almost 15 years to pay off my loans and we spent the first 10 years of our marriage scraping paycheck to paycheck. My parents didn’t pay a penny of my college. My mom was single and struggling (no father in the picture) through most of my childhood, but got remarried when I was in HS, just in time to screw me on financial aid because now I had to claim my stepfather’s income but he wasn’t going to be contributing to paying tuition. He had 2 kids of his own my age entering college and child support. Too bad for me! DH and I did manage to buy a small house and raise 2 kids, one made it through college without loans through us using the MD 529 program. She is now applying to med school. That will be on her to pay as we need to get DS through school and begin saving for retirement. DS is in an early college program through his HS and will graduate HS with his associates degree, so the rest of the college savings we have in place will cover him going to a state school. So hopefully no loans for him. This is good news fir our kids because in the last 5 years we finally got to a place that we feel financially sturdy, but they don’t qualify for financial aid. Between my student loans, beginning payments into the early tuition program for the kids, a mortgage, and life, we have virtually no retirement saved beyond our 401k. Gen x had been royally screwed, but it never gets discussed. Between stagnant wages as we came out of school, the housing bubble, social security being robbed by our government, a recession, etc. I feel like we are the overlooked generation that just shut up, buckled down, and got forgotten. BTW: Some people believe that state institutions are good for anyone wanting a college education, but state college is not fit everyone. Acceptance is extremely competitive, class sizes are very large, and housing is usually only available your freshman year (and depending on acceptance, not even then). And, it still costs about >$18,000/year with tuition, housing, and other expenses included.
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 30, 2019 4:42:51 GMT
No. I think it would be better if the loan rates were decreased and if college tuitions were brought back into the realm of reality. I don’t think the debt should be erased.
I will be really mad if that happens. I know a lot of people who took out student loans while we were in grad school together. Even though we all had full tuition waivers and assistantships that actually paid the bills. One person bought a car with her student loans. Another one bought purses (not kidding, she bought several Chanel bags and told us how she afforded it). Another one took out the max amount she could every year to pad her income “because she could”. And those are just the stories that I remember.
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Post by ExpatBackHome on Jun 30, 2019 4:53:55 GMT
In order to do that, they would have to stop the government backed student loan program going forward. How does it fix the problem if they are still adding to the problem? But I still think they shouldn’t just do away with the debt all together.
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Post by stampinchick on Jun 30, 2019 5:00:00 GMT
So while it may seem “unfair” to just wipe out debt, consider this... How many folks near retirement age have money tied up in their house? At some point, they or their heirs will want to sell. If the bulk of college grads can’t afford to buy because of student loans, what will the retirees do? Who will they sell to? There needs to be reform for sure. You can’t get out of student debt via bankruptcy. But the shady businessman can run multiple businesses into the ground, declare bankruptcy, and repeat. People with medical issues and credit card debt can declare bankruptcy. But student loans are forever. Having a huge chunk of citizens working full time but not able to afford things due to student debt is going to have a major effect on our economy. What happens when the birth rate plummets because people can’t afford children? Who will pay for social security if the population shrinks? Are student loans forever? I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly asking because I had somebody tell me recently that she makes her minimum payments every month for her student loans. She said as long as she makes the minimum payment every month her loan will be forgiven after 25 years. She said it's cheaper for her to pay her loans this way so that she doesn't have to pay the entire loan. I have no idea if this is true.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 15, 2024 18:23:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 5:02:02 GMT
For various reasons USA college students spend twice as much as college students in other countries. Do a Google search on why college is so expensive and you will find some outstanding facts. Gone are the days when a college student can work his or her way through without incurring huge debts. Another problem I see are college students graduating with degrees that do not prepare them for the work force. My own daughter graduated with a business degree in environmental management. She has yet worked in that field. Instead, she eventually went back to school and got a RN license. She makes more in that job that most. There should be a link between tuition loans and the area the student is getting their degree in. How can you pay off a huge student loan if your degree is in an area that does not pay? I tend to agree with this. I currently have six female lawyer friends who got the law degree using student loans in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, practiced for less than ten years (2 less than 5), got married and had children and stopped practicing law. Should they just get a free pass because they decided to have children and be stay at home mommies after they and their parents took on that kind of time and monetary investment? Believe me, I’m all in for the choice to have children, and I want there to always be many many women in the legal field but this is an all-too-common scenario. It’s irresponsible expect someone else (or the taxpayers) to carry that burden because you changed your mind. I have one friend who spent $150000 of her parents money to earn a masters in social work! Social work! A social worker in our state earns $41,000 a year. Maybe she will become a professor? If so, she will be lucky to top out at $84,000 when she has teaching experience under her belt! It’s shortsighted and selfish.
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Post by holly on Jun 30, 2019 5:54:17 GMT
We couldn’t afford to save for retirement and college over the years. Our financial advisor always recommended saving for retirement first so that’s what we did. We had no idea tuition cost would increase as much as they have. DS started at CC. He did his two years, couldn’t pass his math class so he didn’t get his AA yet so they wouldn’t transfer most of his classes when he transfer to a state college last year. He is in summer school (at twice the tuition rate during the regular school year $2300 for 1 8wk class!) retaking his math class for the 3rd time (looks like he’ll pass this time 🤞🏻). His tuition is approx $11,500 a year plus another probably $500 for books. We had agreed to pay his tuition while at CC which was about $6500 a year. When he when to state he had to get an apt so there was that expense, luckily not as much as a dorm. We paid his living expenses and he had money from working to pay tuition. He has enough left for one more semester and then will have to start taking loans, he is going to probably work part time during the school year to help with living expenses too.
DD is starting in the fall at the same state school. She has enough money saved up to basically pay her first year. She is doing a 2 and 2 program where she is at the main campus for 2 years and then back in our city for 2 years. So she will be able to save on housing after her first year of being in the dorm. But her degree requires a Masters (speech pathologist) soni assume she will be working at some point.
We are trying to help them out as much as we can but at the same time they are the ones potentially that are going to be getting the jobs to be able to pay them back more easily than I can.
I agree that the govt should not wipe out debt. There is so much broken with the system. FASFA is a complete joke. The fact that just because you are need based basically gets you a full ride (and sooo many scholarships are based on need instead of achievements) kills me. I don’t understand giving scholarships and grants to mediocre students. What do you think will happen in college? FASFA says my kids can get a loan for $4500 a year and I’m expected to pay $21k cuz I just have that laying around, per kid. Oh but I can get a parent plus loan and be on the hook and have loans, no thanks.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 15, 2024 18:23:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 6:18:38 GMT
I'm amazed at the difference in loans for same education. Some $80 grand, some $10 grand. There has to be some fairness because wiping both of those out is not fair in my eyes as the one that is $10K did a whole lot more work contributing to the cost of their education that the one with $80K Except $10 grand can be an AA, full cost in state, and $80 grand could be 1/3 of an MBA out of state. So your theory makes zero sense. I think she means that one student only has a $10 grand loan, because they money for the rest. The other student has an $80 grand loan ( same school same degree), but didnt have parents who helped, or time for a job. My daughter has a big debt. She wasn’t able to work because dance was her life.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2019 11:54:28 GMT
For various reasons USA college students spend twice as much as college students in other countries. Do a Google search on why college is so expensive and you will find some outstanding facts. Gone are the days when a college student can work his or her way through without incurring huge debts. Another problem I see are college students graduating with degrees that do not prepare them for the work force. My own daughter graduated with a business degree in environmental management. She has yet worked in that field. Instead, she eventually went back to school and got a RN license. She makes more in that job that most. There should be a link between tuition loans and the area the student is getting their degree in. How can you pay off a huge student loan if your degree is in an area that does not pay? I tend to agree with this. I currently have six female lawyer friends who got the law degree using student loans in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, practiced for less than ten years (2 less than 5), got married and had children and stopped practicing law. Should they just get a free pass because they decided to have children and be stay at home mommies after they and their parents took on that kind of time and monetary investment? Believe me, I’m all in for the choice to have children, and I want there to always be many many women in the legal field but this is an all-too-common scenario. It’s irresponsible expect someone else (or the taxpayers) to carry that burden because you changed your mind. I have one friend who spent $150000 of her parents money to earn a masters in social work! Social work! A social worker in our state earns $41,000 a year. Maybe she will become a professor? If so, she will be lucky to top out at $84,000 when she has teaching experience under her belt! It’s shortsighted and selfish. I’m not sure anyone has proposed reducing/eliminating debt for graduate and professional degrees, so this would be moot.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2019 11:56:55 GMT
So while it may seem “unfair” to just wipe out debt, consider this... How many folks near retirement age have money tied up in their house? At some point, they or their heirs will want to sell. If the bulk of college grads can’t afford to buy because of student loans, what will the retirees do? Who will they sell to? There needs to be reform for sure. You can’t get out of student debt via bankruptcy. But the shady businessman can run multiple businesses into the ground, declare bankruptcy, and repeat. People with medical issues and credit card debt can declare bankruptcy. But student loans are forever. Having a huge chunk of citizens working full time but not able to afford things due to student debt is going to have a major effect on our economy. What happens when the birth rate plummets because people can’t afford children? Who will pay for social security if the population shrinks? Are student loans forever? I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly asking because I had somebody tell me recently that she makes her minimum payments every month for her student loans. She said as long as she makes the minimum payment every month her loan will be forgiven after 25 years. She said it's cheaper for her to pay her loans this way so that she doesn't have to pay the entire loan. I have no idea if this is true. I think it depends on the loan and its terms. I know we were responsible for the entire amount, period, and I have friends in their 50s still paying off loans.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2019 12:29:36 GMT
Our EFC is $60K/year. Can you even imagine? That's my entire salary before taxes and insurance - AND we have another kid starting college in two years. The problem with our FAFSA system is that it doesn't take into account if you spent the first fifteen years of your marriage busting your asses to pay off student loans instead of saving for your own kids' college. It seems to assume that what you make now, you've been making for decades, debt-free. And that's laughable in our case. We were Goodwill shopping only and eating beans and rice POOR when our kids were small, in large part due to student loan debt - and no, we didn't go to any fancy schools and we both worked multiple jobs during grad school, where the bulk of our loans came from. So now my kid gets to go to the lower-cost state school we can actually afford, because I'll be damned if I let her take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans and mortgage her entire young adulthood to pay them off. I know we are very lucky that we can pay for her to go even to local state U, as many can't, but I admit it's frustrating to see many of her friends swan off to fancy private school on a need-based aid package. Something has to give. Not every person is suited for the trades, and hardworking kids who want to pursue professional careers should be able to make that happen without signing over their twenties and thirties (or longer) to pay off the government. This needs to be addressed. All the boomers screaming about how unfair it is should consider that you and I are working not only to pay our own kids' college but to make sure their social security checks keep coming long after they've run through their own contributions. Gen X is getting screwed from both ends these days. Everything you said is our story too. The only upside for us was that we only had my loans. DH went into the military under the GI bill to pay for his college. It took us almost 15 years to pay off my loans and we spent the first 10 years of our marriage scraping paycheck to paycheck. My parents didn’t pay a penny of my college. My mom was single and struggling (no father in the picture) through most of my childhood, but got remarried when I was in HS, just in time to screw me on financial aid because now I had to claim my stepfather’s income but he wasn’t going to be contributing to paying tuition. He had 2 kids of his own my age entering college and child support. Too bad for me! DH and I did manage to buy a small house and raise 2 kids, one made it through college without loans through us using the MD 529 program. She is now applying to med school. That will be on her to pay as we need to get DS through school and begin saving for retirement. DS is in an early college program through his HS and will graduate HS with his associates degree, so the rest of the college savings we have in place will cover him going to a state school. So hopefully no loans for him. This is good news fir our kids because in the last 5 years we finally got to a place that we feel financially sturdy, but they don’t qualify for financial aid. Between my student loans, beginning payments into the early tuition program for the kids, a mortgage, and life, we have virtually no retirement saved beyond our 401k. Gen x had been royally screwed, but it never gets discussed. Between stagnant wages as we came out of school, the housing bubble, social security being robbed by our government, a recession, etc. I feel like we are the overlooked generation that just shut up, buckled down, and got forgotten. BTW: Some people believe that state institutions are good for anyone wanting a college education, but state college is not fit everyone. Acceptance is extremely competitive, class sizes are very large, and housing is usually only available your freshman year (and depending on acceptance, not even then). And, it still costs about >$18,000/year with tuition, housing, and other expenses included. DH tried to do the military route to pay for school. He got through Marines basic training and halfway through OTS he shattered his knee in a training exercise. They patched him up in a very basic way, discharged him, and sent him home. So over his life we’ve borne the cost of additional treatment for his knee so he can stay mobile, and we’ll likely pay for a full replacement before he turns 60. The military ended up costing us money. We graduated with our masters degrees in 1996 and moved to Texas in 1997 because there were no jobs and we could not afford to live in Colorado at that time. As you’ve said - bubbles bursting, recessions, wars, etc. and now we’re told that we should have saved better for college and that our kids don’t deserve college or professional degrees unless they’re willing to sink themselves in debt they cannot hope to pay off. Fast forward 22 years, and we live in a state with multiple public universities, but yeah, the flagship university is extremely competitive and sits in an expensive town to live in. We’re lucky that the large public university in our own city is more affordable, and probably a better option for our particular kid. But it’s still not cheap - even with her half-tuition scholarship we’ll pay about $17K per year. She’ll attend CC classes in the summer to get some of her gen eds out of the way and hopefully actually finish in 4 years. DH and I are well aware that our generation will never see our social security contributions. Our money is being used to pay for the golden years of boomers who felt entitled to retire at 65, but will live well into their 90s, and will use up their own contributions long before that and rely on ours instead. Personally, I think we should get to exempt our SS contributions to help pay for our own kids’ college, and let all those “bootstrap” boomers figure out how to pay for their Florida retirement communities themselves. If they’re well and able enough to float around attending Trump rallies and telling the rest of us how lazy and entitled we are, they’re well enough to go back to work and pay their own way.
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Post by monklady123 on Jun 30, 2019 12:50:46 GMT
I find a lot of things unfair, especially the fact that the middle class gets screwed on student loans. The poor get grants and the wealthy can pay their way, but the kids of the middle class end up saddled with enormous loans. It’s one of the things destroying the middle class in this country, to the detriment of our whole society and our economy. I’d be for forgiving student loans in certain circumstances. I think limits should be placed on the cost of college if the college wants to have its students qualify for federal loans. I think loans should be forgiven only if the student maintains a good GPA and completes a full course load each semester. And I think that programs to forgive loans in exchange for service should be expanded - for example, doctors who work in areas where medical care is scarce, teachers who teach in hard to staff positions, people who serve in the military or even join some kind of domestic peace corps that hasn’t been invented yet. I also think colleges should be required to bring down costs while simultaneously improving instruction. K-12 education has had to do this and now it’s time for higher ed to do the same if they want to keep getting tuition paid for by federal funds. No more underpaid TAs and adjuncts teaching survey courses. Stop forcing professors to publish and prioritize teaching ability - put them back in the lecture hall. College tuition has far outpaced inflation and unskilled wages, so it’s much more difficult than it was even ten years ago for a student to “work his way through.” It’s time to stop thinking about what seems fair because of our own experience and look to the future. We need an educated population to fill certain jobs, period. Let’s make sure our brightest and most motivated can become our next generation of doctors, teachers, etc. without crippling loans that prevent them from contributing to the economy. Well I was going to type out a long-ish reply but Merge got here first so I'll just say yeah, that.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 30, 2019 14:10:04 GMT
What I meant is that if it was harder to get student loans, fewer people would go to college and demand would decrease. With decreased demand the prices (tuition) would decrease as colleges have to get more competitive to get those dollars. I understood your initial post. Less students would mean higher tuition. It cannot mean lower tuition. It just does not make sense. Simple economics.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2019 14:18:52 GMT
$1.2 trillion - with a t. Let's be real here. This is not a feasible idea. And frankly it will do absolutely nothing to actually fix the skyrocketing cost of higher education. I absolutely support expanding the programs to forgive loans in exchange for working in under-served areas. I also think we should increase funding of community college and state schools - which can vary tremendously - and probably more importantly end the prestige rat race that has made college admissions a nightmare. In too many cases, the student would be much, much better served at their local state flagship obtaining an excellent, affordable education - but instead they're drowning themselves in debt for a private university that has negligible, if any actual benefit. Our total cost of attendance for our excellent flagship university is less than $30,000. Our neighboring state is actually even cheaper with a tuition exchange program bringing it to just about $20,000. The reality is because education is state run, the costs, quality etc varies tremendously across the country. And too often students and/parents are making really unfortunate financial decisions. All of what you say is true - but, for argument's sake - the Trump tax cuts for the rich will cost between $1.5 trillion and $2.3 trillion (depending on who you ask) and deficit hawks didn't blink an eye. If you're a supply-sider, it seems to me that the argument of putting the money currently being spent on loan payments back into the economy might actually be a good thing. It's funny to me how different priorities are. Anyway. What's obvious to me from this thread is that the Democrats who are pushing this plan have a lot of work to do to educate the general public about the realities of student loan debt and our economy. Everyone operating on "I paid mine off" or "my kids paid theirs off after they finished college 25 years ago" I think is not aware of the cost of even a basic undergraduate degree today. And I do wonder who they think is going to care for them and provide services in their old age if the next generation can't afford college.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Jun 30, 2019 14:21:51 GMT
My kids worked their butts off both in high school and college at multiple jobs to pay their own way with a little help from DH and me. They went to community college then 4-year schools to complete their degrees. Many students do this and I find it unfair that Congress could just wipe away student debt without some strings attached. But maybe I'm just a heartless witch. I feel the same way! It can be done affordably so why pay off the debt of someone who chose to take on the debt? My kids did much the same as yours, went to state schools, lived at home. The benefit to them was they were loan free. If you don't want heavy debt from college you choose a path that doesn't create it. With that said, I do think college costs are out of control, but again you can choose a more cost effective way to attend.
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Post by mustlovecats on Jun 30, 2019 14:26:55 GMT
Forgive loan debt no.
Create more accessible loan forgiveness service programs yes. Find ways to make public college more affordable yes. Expand funding to community college and trade school yes.
I participated in loan forgiveness by teaching in a designated school after finishing my undergrad degree, but it was hard for some to access and it felt like you had to jump through a lot of hoops and were always in peril of losing your service credits toward loan forgiveness. I think we would have a lot more great teachers in our district if they could afford to live here, and I think loan forgiveness would play a big role in that. As it is it’s hard to pay a mortgage here, if you have a large loan payment on a teacher salary you’ll go somewhere they pay better or it’s cheaper to live. I’m in favor of expanding these kinds of programs.
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Jun 30, 2019 14:28:17 GMT
I'm undecided. If the economy goes in the toilet and our government bails out corporations and CEOs who should go to jail again over middle-Americans, I'll lose it. But to just write it off today seems like an unstable remedy with too much red tape to make it work.
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Post by cannmom on Jun 30, 2019 15:19:21 GMT
No, I don’t think college debt forgiveness is a good idea. I believe that parents and children need to start being more realistic in their college choices. Opt for the affordable choice instead of the most prestigious, quit taking on huge amounts of debt for a degree in a low paying field, and stop pushing the idea that everyone must go to college.
I have a college-aged DS so I’m very aware of the cost of college now. DH and I have worked very hard to be able to afford to send our son to school debt free. We made this a priority through out our life and have sacrificed to make it happen. We have seen several different scenarios from DS’s friends regarding college this past year. A few have gone to our local CC for free under a program our county has that requires them to do 40 hours of service per semester. One went to a private school and didn’t make very good grades and I’m not sure what he is doing next. Another went to the same school as DS and made poor grades first semester and did badly in the spring and ending up leaving towards the end of the semester. He is not going back and probably shouldn’t have gone in the first place. He wasn’t ready and didn’t have the maturity to handle being away from home. The point is everyone is different and needs to do what is right for them. Attending a 4 year university and living away from home isn’t the right choice for everyone.
i don’t understand why our society has no problem thinking that anyone should be able to spend a fortune and take on huge debt for a college education. We wouldn’t support the idea that anyone should be able to finance any amount of money for a home or a car. We need to get back in the mindset of doing what we can afford. And yes, I know a college education is different than a house or a car, but we still need to look at it realistically. Going into debt for 150k to go into a field that pays 40k a year is ludicrous. A lot of college debt money is going towards the college experience rather than the college education.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 30, 2019 15:26:49 GMT
What I meant is that if it was harder to get student loans, fewer people would go to college and demand would decrease. With decreased demand the prices (tuition) would decrease as colleges have to get more competitive to get those dollars. I understood your initial post. Less students would mean higher tuition. It cannot mean lower tuition. It just does not make sense. Simple economics. Actually the simply supply/demand economic theory is the opposite. Less consumers mean less demand and lower prices to attract more consumers. When many, many students apply demand is high and prices go up. Now the reality is pricing for higher education is more complicated than a simple supply and demand curve as there are many other factors including state/federal funding, student aid etc. that will distort the curve.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 30, 2019 15:28:08 GMT
$1.2 trillion - with a t. Let's be real here. This is not a feasible idea. And frankly it will do absolutely nothing to actually fix the skyrocketing cost of higher education. I absolutely support expanding the programs to forgive loans in exchange for working in under-served areas. I also think we should increase funding of community college and state schools - which can vary tremendously - and probably more importantly end the prestige rat race that has made college admissions a nightmare. In too many cases, the student would be much, much better served at their local state flagship obtaining an excellent, affordable education - but instead they're drowning themselves in debt for a private university that has negligible, if any actual benefit. Our total cost of attendance for our excellent flagship university is less than $30,000. Our neighboring state is actually even cheaper with a tuition exchange program bringing it to just about $20,000. The reality is because education is state run, the costs, quality etc varies tremendously across the country. And too often students and/parents are making really unfortunate financial decisions. All of what you say is true - but, for argument's sake - the Trump tax cuts for the rich will cost between $1.5 trillion and $2.3 trillion (depending on who you ask) and deficit hawks didn't blink an eye. If you're a supply-sider, it seems to me that the argument of putting the money currently being spent on loan payments back into the economy might actually be a good thing. It's funny to me how different priorities are. Anyway. What's obvious to me from this thread is that the Democrats who are pushing this plan have a lot of work to do to educate the general public about the realities of student loan debt and our economy. Everyone operating on "I paid mine off" or "my kids paid theirs off after they finished college 25 years ago" I think is not aware of the cost of even a basic undergraduate degree today. And I do wonder who they think is going to care for them and provide services in their old age if the next generation can't afford college. I'd actually argue few deficit hawks remain as too many politicians have figured out it's easier to sell non-viable economic plans and then letting the next generation figure out what to do (on BOTH sides) than deal with the reality.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 15, 2024 18:23:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 15:30:59 GMT
All of what you say is true - but, for argument's sake - the Trump tax cuts for the rich will cost between $1.5 trillion and $2.3 trillion (depending on who you ask) and deficit hawks didn't blink an eye. If you're a supply-sider, it seems to me that the argument of putting the money currently being spent on loan payments back into the economy might actually be a good thing. It's funny to me how different priorities are. Anyway. What's obvious to me from this thread is that the Democrats who are pushing this plan have a lot of work to do to educate the general public about the realities of student loan debt and our economy. Everyone operating on "I paid mine off" or "my kids paid theirs off after they finished college 25 years ago" I think is not aware of the cost of even a basic undergraduate degree today. And I do wonder who they think is going to care for them and provide services in their old age if the next generation can't afford college. Or maybe those pushing this plan need to step back and look at the big picture. On the old West Wing tv series there was this one episode where at a campaign event in the Mid-West Toby, Josh & Donna got left behind when Air Force One left without them. In the process of making their way back to DC they end up in a bar talking to a man who had taken his daughter to visit a college. In the course of the conversation the man talked about what he made a year along with what his wife made. They lived a simple life but it was hard to make ends meet and that he worried what would happen if he slipped and fell on his own steps and hurt himself. He went on that it should hard but it should be just a little bit easier to. Right now there here a lot of Americans, that don’t have student debt, that are struggling to make ends meet. In an earlier post the argument of people with student debts can’t buy a house. Right now there are a lot of folks , without student debt, that can’t buy homes either. There are a lot of people providing services for us old people that don’t have student debt or even a degree, that are struggling to make ends meet. So why are folks with student debt more special then all the other Americans that are struggling to make ends meet? The trillions that are being tossed out there as the cost to eliminate student debt, could help a lot more people then just those with student debt. That could be used to make things a little bit easier for a lot more Americans. I do not have any problem helping folks with student debt by lowering their interest rates to just a handling charge for the length of the loan. Or programs that if the new graduates worked in low income /poverty areas for a period of time , part or all of their loans are wiped out. The marines say “we leave no man behind”. The Democrats should say “we leave no person behind “ and instead of just singling out groups, they find ways to make things a bit easier for all struggling Americans. That is where my priority is.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2019 15:38:05 GMT
All of what you say is true - but, for argument's sake - the Trump tax cuts for the rich will cost between $1.5 trillion and $2.3 trillion (depending on who you ask) and deficit hawks didn't blink an eye. If you're a supply-sider, it seems to me that the argument of putting the money currently being spent on loan payments back into the economy might actually be a good thing. It's funny to me how different priorities are. Anyway. What's obvious to me from this thread is that the Democrats who are pushing this plan have a lot of work to do to educate the general public about the realities of student loan debt and our economy. Everyone operating on "I paid mine off" or "my kids paid theirs off after they finished college 25 years ago" I think is not aware of the cost of even a basic undergraduate degree today. And I do wonder who they think is going to care for them and provide services in their old age if the next generation can't afford college. Or maybe those pushing this plan need to step back and look at the big picture. On the old West Wing tv series there was this one episode where at a campaign event in the Mid-West Toby, Josh & Donna got left behind when Air Force One left without them. In the process of making their way back to DC they end up in a bar talking to a man who had taken his daughter to visit a college. In the course of the conversation the man talked about what he made a year along with what his wife made. They lived a simple life but it was hard to make ends meet and that he worried what would happen if he slipped and fell on his own steps and hurt himself. He went on that it should hard but it should be just a little bit easier to. Right now there here a lot of Americans, that don’t have student debt, that are struggling to make ends meet. In an earlier post the argument of people with student debts can’t buy a house. Right now there are a lot of folks , without student debt, that can’t buy homes either. There are a lot of people providing services for us old people that don’t have student debt or even a degree, that are struggling to make ends meet. So why are folks with student debt more special then all the other Americans that are struggling to make ends meet? The trillions that are being tossed out there as the cost to eliminate student debt, could help a lot more people then just those with student debt. That could be used to make things a little bit easier for a lot more Americans. I do not have any problem helping folks with student debt by lowering their interest rates to just a handling charge for the length of the loan. Or programs that if the new graduates worked in low income /poverty areas for a period of time , part or all of their loans are wiped out. The marines say “we leave no man behind”. The Democrats should say “we leave no person behind “ and instead of just singling out groups, they find ways to make things a bit easier for all struggling Americans. That is where my priority is. Do you feel this is the only program to help average Americans that Democrats are promoting right now? Or is it just one of many?
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Post by littlemama on Jun 30, 2019 15:44:19 GMT
Reduce, yes. Eliminate, no.
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