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Post by cajeanne on Jun 29, 2019 19:35:34 GMT
My kids worked their butts off both in high school and college at multiple jobs to pay their own way with a little help from DH and me. They went to community college then 4-year schools to complete their degrees. Many students do this and I find it unfair that Congress could just wipe away student debt without some strings attached. But maybe I'm just a heartless witch.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,955
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Jun 29, 2019 19:37:42 GMT
I'm amazed at the difference in loans for same education. Some $80 grand, some $10 grand. There has to be some fairness because wiping both of those out is not fair in my eyes as the one that is $10K did a whole lot more work contributing to the cost of their education that the one with $80K
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:58:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 19:42:06 GMT
I do think college is very overpriced. I also think corporate America needs to do more to dedicated, collaborative classroom training of their employees, too. Completely knocking out student loan debt? It's not a black and white situation for me - there would have to be some give and take/stipulations associated with loan forgiveness. I cannot support a complete wipe the slate clean situation.
What about those of us who already paid the balance of their student loans - how would we benefit with student loan dismissal after being productive members of society for 5, 10, 15+ years? Maybe provide "credits" of some sort for our children who go to college and keep a certain GPA is one way to balance the past with the present.
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Post by scraphop on Jun 29, 2019 19:46:21 GMT
Absolutely not! I paid my student loan back myself. I see too many students that can’t find a job after college turn around and get a masters to defer having to make payments on their student loans. They dig themselves a deeper hole. My neighbor told me that if student loans weren’t so easy to get fewer people would be able to go to college which would drive college tuition down. I don’t disagree with that theory.
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Post by papersilly on Jun 29, 2019 20:24:49 GMT
No. I know people who used student loans as their personal ATM and not so much for school. Not right to wipe that out outright.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 29, 2019 20:54:56 GMT
No, but I wouldn't be against lower interest rates for student loans.
I'm also against free college
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Dani-Mani
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Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jun 29, 2019 20:55:52 GMT
I'm amazed at the difference in loans for same education. Some $80 grand, some $10 grand. There has to be some fairness because wiping both of those out is not fair in my eyes as the one that is $10K did a whole lot more work contributing to the cost of their education that the one with $80K Except $10 grand can be an AA, full cost in state, and $80 grand could be 1/3 of an MBA out of state. So your theory makes zero sense.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:58:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 21:11:25 GMT
Hell no.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:58:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 21:16:22 GMT
Absolutely not. Your college debt is for your benefit and future earnings. You took out that debt with full knowledge that you would be required to pay it back. If college is too expensive, then find another way but don't expect those that found a way to pay for it or had to work their way through college to pay for your college education.
I've seen way too many of my son's friends take out loan after loan to party their way through 4 or more years of college.
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Post by Merge on Jun 29, 2019 21:25:03 GMT
I find a lot of things unfair, especially the fact that the middle class gets screwed on student loans. The poor get grants and the wealthy can pay their way, but the kids of the middle class end up saddled with enormous loans. It’s one of the things destroying the middle class in this country, to the detriment of our whole society and our economy.
I’d be for forgiving student loans in certain circumstances. I think limits should be placed on the cost of college if the college wants to have its students qualify for federal loans. I think loans should be forgiven only if the student maintains a good GPA and completes a full course load each semester. And I think that programs to forgive loans in exchange for service should be expanded - for example, doctors who work in areas where medical care is scarce, teachers who teach in hard to staff positions, people who serve in the military or even join some kind of domestic peace corps that hasn’t been invented yet.
I also think colleges should be required to bring down costs while simultaneously improving instruction. K-12 education has had to do this and now it’s time for higher ed to do the same if they want to keep getting tuition paid for by federal funds. No more underpaid TAs and adjuncts teaching survey courses. Stop forcing professors to publish and prioritize teaching ability - put them back in the lecture hall.
College tuition has far outpaced inflation and unskilled wages, so it’s much more difficult than it was even ten years ago for a student to “work his way through.” It’s time to stop thinking about what seems fair because of our own experience and look to the future. We need an educated population to fill certain jobs, period. Let’s make sure our brightest and most motivated can become our next generation of doctors, teachers, etc. without crippling loans that prevent them from contributing to the economy.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jun 29, 2019 21:32:39 GMT
I think wiping out student debt would cause a lot of bitterness in our country.
The students who worked two and three jobs to go to a so-so college, who paid off their debt and had really struggled...
Versus...
The students who grew up with parents that could send them to private high schools, then guide them to elite universities. Their student debt could easily be $100,000.
Versus...
The high schoolers who didn't feel they could make it in college, but went to trade school, and paid for it themselves...
Versus...
The single teen mom that just was so overwhelmed with balancing life raising a baby and working a crummy job, and couldn't afford paying for college in the mix.
How many people would be angry, because if they knew they could incur a lot more debt, then have it wiped, their whole life could have been better, because they could have gone to a more expensive college, etc.
Honestly, I think if Congress wants to give a stipend or payment to better the lives of Americans, it should be a voucher towards payment of a home.
It would need to be given to everyone 18+.
A set amount, let's say $25K.
You could use it towards a down payment.
You could use it towards your mortgage.
If you already own your home outright, you could use it toward your taxes, or toward a home repair, or toward buying a different home.
Everyone would have this amount in a designated home account, which couldn't be withdrawn from for odds and ends, but was explicitly theirs forever. They could wait to use it until they were ready.
I know my idea isn't water tight, but I think it would be fairer than only wiping out the debt of college students that still have debt.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jun 29, 2019 21:44:31 GMT
So while it may seem “unfair” to just wipe out debt, consider this...
How many folks near retirement age have money tied up in their house? At some point, they or their heirs will want to sell. If the bulk of college grads can’t afford to buy because of student loans, what will the retirees do? Who will they sell to?
There needs to be reform for sure. You can’t get out of student debt via bankruptcy. But the shady businessman can run multiple businesses into the ground, declare bankruptcy, and repeat. People with medical issues and credit card debt can declare bankruptcy. But student loans are forever.
Having a huge chunk of citizens working full time but not able to afford things due to student debt is going to have a major effect on our economy. What happens when the birth rate plummets because people can’t afford children? Who will pay for social security if the population shrinks?
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scrappinmama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Jun 29, 2019 21:59:03 GMT
I think there should be strings attached, like work in a field where there is a shortage, or in a location where they might be trying to revitalize the area. Something also needs to be done about the cost of a college education.
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Post by papersilly on Jun 29, 2019 22:01:16 GMT
Yesterday my friend told me she will encourage her niece and nephew to fund their college with student loans in the hopes the government will wipe them out.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 29, 2019 22:03:25 GMT
Full disclosure: DH and I have large amounts of student loans still. We went back to school later in life and used loans to help pay our living expenses while I went to school full time. We pay almost $1000 per month just in student loans.
I still don't think the government has any business paying off our loans. We took them out knowing we would have to pay them back.
I think wiping out student loans completely is a burden that our gov't shouldn't take on.
Now, if they wanted to forgive x amount of loan for x amount of legitimate volunteer work, then I could be more on board. Or as I stated above, lower the interest rate. I think the rate on some of ours is 6.5%. Cut that in half and we could pay our loans off much faster.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 29, 2019 22:06:00 GMT
Yesterday my friend told me she will encourage her niece and nephew to fund their college with student loans in the hopes the government will wipe them out. see that isn't right. I also knew people during my undergrad time that used the left over from their loans to take a trip for spring break. Although they may be more stingy in their loans now. Ds only qualified for the minimum which was about $5000. Apparently they think we should be able to afford $23,000 per year on our own. (Which we probably could have saved for had we not had $1000/month loan payments of our own)
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Post by Pahina722 on Jun 29, 2019 22:06:55 GMT
With stipulations.
Going forward, before getting a loan, student would have to contract for X# of years service with an approved business or government entity for every Y$ to be forgiven. This could include military service. For those who have already accumulated the debt, again, there would be some sort of trade off of service for forgiveness—not simply erasing the debt.
If it were set up so that the service would develop salable job skills, that would benefit both society and the students.
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Post by disneypal on Jun 29, 2019 22:10:26 GMT
I worked full time and went to college part time just to ensure I didn't need to take out student loans. It was hard and took me longer than 4 years, but I did it. I didn't have to go to the most prestigious college, I went to State college because I could afford it. While I do agree that college costs are far too high and outrageous, I also feel like you make choices in life and if you choose to take out a loan (of any kind) you should have to repay it.
I wish college was free or at least reasonably priced but I don't ever see that happening in the USA. Instead of forgiving student debt, congress should work on making college affordable!
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,544
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Jun 29, 2019 22:17:07 GMT
see that isn't right. I also knew people during my undergrad time that used the left over from their loans to take a trip for spring break. Wow. I don't understand this. Both of my daughters had loans to go to college. My oldest daughter had a full scholarship thanks to sports along with a scholarship in her major area of study. It didn't cover room and board, and she still graduated with debt because of loans for that. My younger daughter is going to a state school to be an elementary teacher. The least expensive state school in our state, and she is still going to have about $50,000 in loans. And she will be a teacher. She never has money left over. In fact, her loans don't cover everything, and she has to work 2 jobs in the summer and a job during the school year to help with the costs. She sure doesn't have money left over to go on vacation. I worked full time and went to college part time just to ensure I didn't need to take out student loans. It was hard and took me longer than 4 years, but I did it. I didn't have to go to the most prestigious college, I went to State college because I could afford it. While I do agree that college costs are far too high and outrageous, I also feel like you make choices in life and if you choose to take out a loan (of any kind) you should have to repay it. I agree, you should have to pay back your loans. I just wish college wasn't soooo expensive. Even community college costs so much these days. My husband and I both paid our way through a state college by working and taking out very minimal loans. Combined, we had $6,000 in loans. Things were clearly much different back then. My youngest daughter's school, like I said, is the least expensive state school in MO. And there is still no way she would be able to pay her own way without loans.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 29, 2019 22:31:08 GMT
I also think high school guidance counselors should give students options other than college. Not everyone belongs in college. They need to bring trades people to high schools to talk to kids.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,955
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Jun 29, 2019 22:37:48 GMT
I'm amazed at the difference in loans for same education. Some $80 grand, some $10 grand. There has to be some fairness because wiping both of those out is not fair in my eyes as the one that is $10K did a whole lot more work contributing to the cost of their education that the one with $80K Except $10 grand can be an AA, full cost in state, and $80 grand could be 1/3 of an MBA out of state. So your theory makes zero sense. There would definitely have to have stipulations to be fair. I didn't spell it out in my post, but thought the article was speaking of 4 year degrees. To me out of state tuition should not be allowed in the computation. Possible reimbursement of what state tuition would have cost and the rest they are on their own. Oveall, I don't think the government should be bailing them out at all.
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Post by Merge on Jun 29, 2019 22:48:45 GMT
Yesterday my friend told me she will encourage her niece and nephew to fund their college with student loans in the hopes the government will wipe them out. see that isn't right. I also knew people during my undergrad time that used the left over from their loans to take a trip for spring break. Although they may be more stingy in their loans now. Ds only qualified for the minimum which was about $5000. Apparently they think we should be able to afford $23,000 per year on our own. (Which we probably could have saved for had we not had $1000/month loan payments of our own) Our EFC is $60K/year. Can you even imagine? That's my entire salary before taxes and insurance - AND we have another kid starting college in two years. The problem with our FAFSA system is that it doesn't take into account if you spent the first fifteen years of your marriage busting your asses to pay off student loans instead of saving for your own kids' college. It seems to assume that what you make now, you've been making for decades, debt-free. And that's laughable in our case. We were Goodwill shopping only and eating beans and rice POOR when our kids were small, in large part due to student loan debt - and no, we didn't go to any fancy schools and we both worked multiple jobs during grad school, where the bulk of our loans came from. So now my kid gets to go to the lower-cost state school we can actually afford, because I'll be damned if I let her take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans and mortgage her entire young adulthood to pay them off. I know we are very lucky that we can pay for her to go even to local state U, as many can't, but I admit it's frustrating to see many of her friends swan off to fancy private school on a need-based aid package. Something has to give. Not every person is suited for the trades, and hardworking kids who want to pursue professional careers should be able to make that happen without signing over their twenties and thirties (or longer) to pay off the government. This needs to be addressed. All the boomers screaming about how unfair it is should consider that you and I are working not only to pay our own kids' college but to make sure their social security checks keep coming long after they've run through their own contributions. Gen X is getting screwed from both ends these days.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:58:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 23:07:54 GMT
While I feel college (2 yr JC, 4 yr state and 4 yr Uni) is over priced, NO way should the debt be erased!
You (general) went knowing the cost. It is on you to pay for it.
Dh and I have paid close to $150,000 in medical debt between 2 kids ($120k for just ds alone). We gave up a lot and buckled down to do so.
It was our duty and responsibility to do so.
Just pisses me off that all these grads want a now free education. Hell no
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Post by birukitty on Jun 29, 2019 23:08:26 GMT
No I don't think Congress should erase or forgive student loan debt. When you take out a loan you should pay it back-all of it. When DS went to college he spent the first 2 years at community college-it was much cheaper and we knew he'd get a wonderful education of the first 2 years-the basics. He then transferred all of his credits to an in state University that has the degree program he was looking for (film and video), had a great reputation and was very reasonable in cost. Would he have preferred to go to a California school for film? Absolutely. But it wasn't in our budget and we and my ex had planned to pay for his college education without loans if we could. By DS going to the in state school we were able to do that.
It all turned out in the end. DS has a great job editing commercials now and he loves it. Is it his dream job? No, he'd rather be editing film. But he's young and he's just starting in his career. The best part is he doesn't have any student loans. Had he gone to an out of state school he would have. His in state school was around $10,000 a year, so it was 20,000 for the last 2 years. And much less than that for the first 2 years.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 29, 2019 23:16:02 GMT
$1.2 trillion - with a t. Let's be real here. This is not a feasible idea. And frankly it will do absolutely nothing to actually fix the skyrocketing cost of higher education. I absolutely support expanding the programs to forgive loans in exchange for working in under-served areas. I also think we should increase funding of community college and state schools - which can vary tremendously - and probably more importantly end the prestige rat race that has made college admissions a nightmare. In too many cases, the student would be much, much better served at their local state flagship obtaining an excellent, affordable education - but instead they're drowning themselves in debt for a private university that has negligible, if any actual benefit. Our total cost of attendance for our excellent flagship university is less than $30,000. Our neighboring state is actually even cheaper with a tuition exchange program bringing it to just about $20,000. The reality is because education is state run, the costs, quality etc varies tremendously across the country. And too often students and/parents are making really unfortunate financial decisions.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 29, 2019 23:41:16 GMT
I also think high school guidance counselors should give students options other than college. Not everyone belongs in college. They need to bring trades people to high schools to talk to kids. We try. Trust me. We even have a technical school kids can opt to attend for partial days that focus on things like electrical work, autos, homeland security/law enforcement/fire protection, cosmetology, child care, nursing/healthcare, media production. However, almost NO parents encourage their students to enter a trade, so it's an uphill battle. The college culture/expectation is extremely powerful.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jun 29, 2019 23:53:25 GMT
Yes. The costs of college have outpaced inflation while wages have remained flat. If a whole generation delays marriage, children, major purchases the economy is going to suffer. They can't afford to marry, buy homes, have children. Without their participation the economy will not grow. We are middle class. My eldest is attending community college so she can avoid debt. She got into a few schools and got a few scholarships but our portion and the loans were large and her love of the schools was not. My youngest will also go to community. She has opted to spend some of her college savings for junior year of high school abroad. If she likes it she will try to go to school in Europe where things are much cheaper.
Also, I was shocked to see that the FAFSA is required until age 24. When do my children get to be adults? The whole system seems designed to extract as much money as possible from the students and their families.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
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Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Jun 29, 2019 23:57:59 GMT
I think it is a lot more complex than a yes or no answer would cover.
They need to do something(s) though.
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Post by nlwilkins on Jun 30, 2019 0:15:07 GMT
For various reasons USA college students spend twice as much as college students in other countries. Do a Google search on why college is so expensive and you will find some outstanding facts. Gone are the days when a college student can work his or her way through without incurring huge debts.
Another problem I see are college students graduating with degrees that do not prepare them for the work force. My own daughter graduated with a business degree in environmental management. She has yet worked in that field. Instead, she eventually went back to school and got a RN license. She makes more in that job that most. There should be a link between tuition loans and the area the student is getting their degree in. How can you pay off a huge student loan if your degree is in an area that does not pay?
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Post by beebee on Jun 30, 2019 1:14:26 GMT
No I don't think Congress should erase or forgive student loan debt. When you take out a loan you should pay it back-all of it. When DS went to college he spent the first 2 years at community college-it was much cheaper and we knew he'd get a wonderful education of the first 2 years-the basics. He then transferred all of his credits to an in state University that has the degree program he was looking for (film and video), had a great reputation and was very reasonable in cost. Would he have preferred to go to a California school for film? Absolutely. But it wasn't in our budget and we and my ex had planned to pay for his college education without loans if we could. By DS going to the in state school we were able to do that. It all turned out in the end. DS has a great job editing commercials now and he loves it. Is it his dream job? No, he'd rather be editing film. But he's young and he's just starting in his career. The best part is he doesn't have any student loans. Had he gone to an out of state school he would have. His in state school was around $10,000 a year, so it was 20,000 for the last 2 years. And much less than that for the first 2 years. I admire you for this approach. I am in an area where many parents I know think their kids "deserve" the 4 year college experience and seem to be willing to take on debt to do it. I think it is ridiculous when there are local colleges near us that would save these parents a ton of money. So no, I do not think the Govt should erase student loans.
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