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Post by peano on Jul 31, 2019 13:59:40 GMT
Suburban Chicago families are giving up custody of their kids to get need-based financial aid. linkAnd I didn't want to hate people today. |
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by likescarrots on Jul 31, 2019 14:08:56 GMT
I read about this yesterday and spent my whole day infuriated. I even read comments of people defending this because 'well it's a loophole, it's not illegal'.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jul 31, 2019 15:02:51 GMT
This isn’t new! My dad talked about it in 1986 as a way of paying for my college. It turns out that they hadn’t saved a dime. Not a dime. In spite of the fact that they talked about me going to college for years. They had the means to pay for my college—they just didn’t want to. Both he and my mom were spenders.
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Post by Merge on Jul 31, 2019 15:27:28 GMT
I am in no way condoning this action, and we have not done and would never do this.
BUT
This is the absolutely foreseeable outcome of our current financial aid system combined with the rising cost of even a state college education. The poor get grants and the wealthy can afford to pay outright, but the middle class is in danger of falling down the SES ladder in the next generation because they either take out huge loans which have to be paid back, or they don’t go to college and drastically reduce their lifetime earnings.
This is going to have significant long term impact on our economy as the middle class keeps shrinking and getting poorer.
Defrauding the system is obviously not the answer. But what is? We need to make college affordable for the middle class, for those who want to go.
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Montannie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,486
Location: Big Sky Country
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Post by Montannie on Jul 31, 2019 15:27:31 GMT
Stuff like this infuriates me. If you can afford to pay your own way, why take advantage of a "loophole" to foist the expense off on taxpayers? There's all sorts of examples of this, wealthy people keeping what's theirs while the "little people" pay.
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Post by Merge on Jul 31, 2019 16:00:32 GMT
Stuff like this infuriates me. If you can afford to pay your own way, why take advantage of a "loophole" to foist the expense off on taxpayers? There's all sorts of examples of this, wealthy people keeping what's theirs while the "little people" pay. It’s unclear to me from the article if the families could have afforded to pay outright or if they were in the very common position of making too much to qualify for grants, but not enough to have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars for their kids’ college. There’s a huge middle class gap in there. |
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gsquaredmom
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Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Jul 31, 2019 16:08:34 GMT
On the news last night, it was explained that one paid professional college admissions/ financial aid advisor and one lawyer were responsible for many of these. Many of the parents are doctors and lawyers in very wealthy suburbs. They turn over guardianship to a friend or relative and the kids geta lot of financial based aid while truly poor kids could not get things like MAP grants because the money ran out. Another way the rich are legally stealing from the poor. Legal but unethical.
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
Posts: 3,827
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Post by CeeScraps on Jul 31, 2019 16:38:22 GMT
YES the parents are living in multi/million dollar homes in very wealthy areas.
We have a part of town here that has those types of homes. Makes me wonder if former parents of mine have done this.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
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Post by LeaP on Jul 31, 2019 16:47:57 GMT
While I agree this is very, very wrong and dishonest, I also believe the system is broken. We are middle class and have one entering college in fall. We have saved for college, but we live and have always had to live in rather expensive cities due to work. Financial aid awards expect us to pay 1/4 of pre-tax income for one child plus student loans. In the end we decided that the love of the schools was not greater than the cost so she is going to community college and then to a state school or abroad.
The FAFSA is required until she is 24, so legally we are required to pay for her education long after she becomes an adult and probably after she finishes an undergraduate program. It also assumes she will graduate with debt. What troubles me is that the cost of tuition has outpaced inflation and that salaries have remained flat and health care co-pays have steadily increased. We are seeing what the debt means to recent grads and the reality is that they have no safety margin and will be dependent on their parents for years to come.
I want my kids to be independent and we are making our choice based on that goal.
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Post by just PEAchy on Jul 31, 2019 16:51:13 GMT
I read about this last night and it appears it’s wealthy families that are doing it. One family in particular had already spent $600K on 2 kids and now couldn’t afford to send their 3rd child. Maybe they should have chosen less expensive schools instead of commiting fraud and taking money from students who really needed it.
I do agree that college costs are outrageous and the middle class is being hurt the most. My parents were lower middle class & we didn’t qualify for any grants other than student loans. They really couldn’t afford it either, my grandparents paid for some & I took out loans/had scholarships. I was in Illinois where this happened. I would have loved to have gone to UoI, but went to the more affordable ISU instead.
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Post by Merge on Jul 31, 2019 16:55:15 GMT
I read about this last night and it appears it’s wealthy families that are doing it. One family in particular had already spent $600K on 2 kids and now couldn’t afford to send their 3rd child. Maybe they should have chosen less expensive schools instead of commiting fraud and taking money from students who really needed it. I do agree that college costs are outrageous and the middle class is being hurt the most. My parents were lower middle class & we didn’t qualify for any grants other than student loans. They really couldn’t afford it either, my grandparents paid for some & I took out loans/had scholarships. I was in Illinois where this happened. I would have loved to have gone to UoI, but went to the more affordable ISU instead. And even those state schools are out of reach for most families these days. What we are paying to send our oldest to local state university would give you chills. The tuition is only a tiny part of it. But we chose that because we could afford to pay it, rather than sending her to another school that would have been much more expensive and would have required loans. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 31, 2019 17:12:06 GMT
holy moly!! That's horrible!!
That's the area I used to live... the suburban town of Long Grove is one of the most affluent areas out there!! There should be NO reason a kid who lives THERE needs to get financial aid. People are just rotten.
ETA: the entire area they're talking about-- Grayslake, Vernon Hills, Libertyville, etc. is moderate-to-pretty affluent. Not Gold Coast affluent like Winnetka, Lake Forest, or Kenilworth, but no- those families would NOT have needed to get grants to send their kids to (a decent) college. Especially since one of the parents was a LAWYER, for gosh sakes. Or, here's a thought- your kid can go to college at a different school, or maybe, I don't know- go to community college and work to save some money to go to a 4-year university later? People can STILL be successful in life even if they don't go to a prestigious 4-yr university right out of high school.
from the article: "“I did wrestle with this,” said the man, who agreed to speak as long as he was not identified. He said his wife works at a university and “knows it from the other side,” he said. “And her comment was, ‘Is it going to deprive someone else of … financial aid?’ And so that’s the issue. I was told it does not.”"
^^^ and he believed that?!? How much of an idiot IS he? Of COURSE if you give one kid financial aid, it deprives someone else! Money doesn't grow on trees!!! [/a]
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Post by h2ohdog on Jul 31, 2019 17:16:33 GMT
"But many of those wealthy families are providing jobs...." (please note sarcasm font). This kind of stuff makes me sick.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 20:27:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 17:21:52 GMT
To go to those lengths is crazy. Of course, it's not just the wealthy and it can start early. I've heard of many stories of parents who use another address is order to get their school aged children into a certain school district.
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Post by mom on Jul 31, 2019 17:42:40 GMT
While I agree this is very, very wrong and dishonest, I also believe the system is broken. We are middle class and have one entering college in fall. We have saved for college, but we live and have always had to live in rather expensive cities due to work. Financial aid awards expect us to pay 1/4 of pre-tax income for one child plus student loans. In the end we decided that the love of the schools was not greater than the cost so she is going to community college and then to a state school or abroad. The FAFSA is required until she is 24, so legally we are required to pay for her education long after she becomes an adult and probably after she finishes an undergraduate program. It also assumes she will graduate with debt. What troubles me is that the cost of tuition has outpaced inflation and that salaries have remained flat and health care co-pays have steadily increased. We are seeing what the debt means to recent grads and the reality is that they have no safety margin and will be dependent on their parents for years to come. I want my kids to be independent and we are making our choice based on that goal. I agree with this. The system is broken. Is what they did wrong? Absolutely it is unethical. But it wasn't illegal. If you don't want people using loopholes, then close those loopholes. If you know about a problem but chose to ignore it, then don't be surprised when people use the problem to their advantage. |
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Post by LuvAgoodPaddle on Jul 31, 2019 18:01:24 GMT
I agree with this. The system is broken. Is what they did wrong? Absolutely it is unethical. But it wasn't illegal. If you don't want people using loopholes, then close those loopholes. If you know about a problem but chose to ignore it, then don't be surprised when people use the problem to their advantage. I feel the same with taxes. Want the wealthy and corporations to pay their share? Close the loopholes. I don't blame either for the tax advantages when the loopholes are legal. |
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breetheflea
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,919
Location: PNW
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Post by breetheflea on Jul 31, 2019 18:36:55 GMT
My parents did not help with my college tuition. They saved nothing. My mom is still (at 64) almost always broke. As soon as she has money she spends it.
My financial aid was based on their income though... When I'd go to the school asking for help the response was "ask your parents for money." My parents also separated while I was in school but didn't get divorced (too much work until they were about to remarry) so they were both on my FAFSA. To remove them from my financial aid, I had to be either 23 or married. Since I was already engaged to DH we might have pushed the wedding up...
I am still paying off my loans...
My kids will live at home, go to community college for two years and not be stuck paying loans until their own kids go to college.
The system kind of sucks.
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Post by nightnurse on Jul 31, 2019 18:57:41 GMT
My parents did not help with my college tuition. They saved nothing. My mom is still (at 64) almost always broke. As soon as she has money she spends it. My financial aid was based on their income though... When I'd go to the school asking for help the response was "ask your parents for money." My parents also separated while I was in school but didn't get divorced (too much work until they were about to remarry) so they were both on my FAFSA. To remove them from my financial aid, I had to be either 23 or married. Since I was already engaged to DH we might have pushed the wedding up... I am still paying off my loans... My kids will live at home, go to community college for two years and not be stuck paying loans until their own kids go to college. The system kind of sucks. And we have presidential candidates who say “can’t afford college? Borrow from your parents!” The whole system is horribly broken but continues to be tilted in favor of the wealthy. There is an opinion that if you’re smart enough to take advantage of these loopholes, you deserve them. I’m just so disgusted with the whining about socialism and the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” crap while the wealthy and well connected continue to do no such thing |
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Post by kernriver on Jul 31, 2019 19:05:06 GMT
I gotta admit it crossed my mind when our younger son went.
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Post by peano on Jul 31, 2019 21:07:42 GMT
I realize that college costs are astronomical and the middle class is struggling with costs. The general mood on my son's college Facebook page for parents is anger and frustration at the costs. I realize there may have been people part of this scam who legitimately cannot afford college. And even though it may be legal, the idealist in me that has not been crushed by the Trump presidency, wishes people didn’t need laws in order to act ethically.
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Post by bc2ca on Jul 31, 2019 21:33:13 GMT
I am not the least bit surprised by this.  |
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SweetieBsMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,612
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Jul 31, 2019 21:37:15 GMT
I am in no way condoning this action, and we have not done and would never do this. BUT This is the absolutely foreseeable outcome of our current financial aid system combined with the rising cost of even a state college education. The poor get grants and the wealthy can afford to pay outright, but the middle class is in danger of falling down the SES ladder in the next generation because they either take out huge loans which have to be paid back, or they don’t go to college and drastically reduce their lifetime earnings. This is going to have significant long term impact on our economy as the middle class keeps shrinking and getting poorer. Defrauding the system is obviously not the answer. But what is? We need to make college affordable for the middle class, for those who want to go. ITA. Desperate times.... |
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 31, 2019 23:26:23 GMT
I am in no way condoning this action, and we have not done and would never do this. BUT This is the absolutely foreseeable outcome of our current financial aid system combined with the rising cost of even a state college education. The poor get grants and the wealthy can afford to pay outright, but the middle class is in danger of falling down the SES ladder in the next generation because they either take out huge loans which have to be paid back, or they don’t go to college and drastically reduce their lifetime earnings. This is going to have significant long term impact on our economy as the middle class keeps shrinking and getting poorer. Defrauding the system is obviously not the answer. But what is? We need to make college affordable for the middle class, for those who want to go. I work in higher ed. We had a discussion about social mobility and college today. there are so many issues that it is scary. I think the misnomer that the "poor get grants" is also BS. YES increasingly a lot of high performing institutions are meeting full economic need in terms of grants and scholarships. But even the poor those earning at poverty level or less are being asked to pay $5-15K at state institutions... how can that possibly be affordable! I'm not disagreeing with but just emphasizing that the problem is systemic and all but the shrinking # of wealthy families are going to priced out of university degrees!!! |
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Post by Merge on Aug 1, 2019 0:16:16 GMT
I am in no way condoning this action, and we have not done and would never do this. BUT This is the absolutely foreseeable outcome of our current financial aid system combined with the rising cost of even a state college education. The poor get grants and the wealthy can afford to pay outright, but the middle class is in danger of falling down the SES ladder in the next generation because they either take out huge loans which have to be paid back, or they don’t go to college and drastically reduce their lifetime earnings. This is going to have significant long term impact on our economy as the middle class keeps shrinking and getting poorer. Defrauding the system is obviously not the answer. But what is? We need to make college affordable for the middle class, for those who want to go. I work in higher ed. We had a discussion about social mobility and college today. there are so many issues that it is scary. I think the misnomer that the "poor get grants" is also BS. YES increasingly a lot of high performing institutions are meeting full economic need in terms of grants and scholarships. But even the poor those earning at poverty level or less are being asked to pay $5-15K at state institutions... how can that possibly be affordable! I'm not disagreeing with but just emphasizing that the problem is systemic and all but the shrinking # of wealthy families are going to priced out of university degrees!!! You're absolutely correct. Thanks for sharing your first person experience. |
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Post by brina on Aug 1, 2019 0:36:13 GMT
I have never been so grateful to not see my kids' high school mentioned in an article.
Some of the schools mentioned, including Lake Forest HS, are attending by kids whose parents can afford college. They may not want to, they may have things they would rather send their money on, but make no mistake they COULD afford college for their kids.
This is in some ways more abhorrent then the parents who brided their kids way into the school, and then paid full board.
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Post by refugeepea on Aug 1, 2019 1:11:07 GMT
Honestly, I understand why they did it. My parents were not able to pay for most of our college. It doesn't make sense. By law, you are 18. You are no longer a minor. Yet, they look at your parent's finances until you are 25 (or 26). My older siblings did qualify for grants. I did not because I was the youngest. My parents didn't magically have more money after helping pay for marriages, colleges, and LDS missions.
You have to be extremely smart or athletic to get the good scholarships. I was neither but worked my ass off in leadership roles and got one very last minute. This is hurting the middle class and even the working class where the parents are not college graduates. You have to be at or near poverty level to get financial assistance.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's some sham marriages out there too.
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