|
Post by AussieMeg on Oct 12, 2014 0:27:50 GMT
A 47 year old teacher propositioned a 10 year old student for sex.
In a letter to the student, the teacher wrote:
Oh, did I mention that the teacher is a woman, a mother of 8?
The jury found her guilty of a single count of engaging in an indecent act with a child.
What do you think the penalty SHOULD be? What do you think the penalty actually WAS? What do you think the penalty would be where you live?
Link to story
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 6:24:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 0:32:04 GMT
Horrifying! And I'm ashamed to admit that I totally expected the teacher to be male and the student female. I have no idea what a suitable punishment would be... that's some kind of serious mental disturbance and sickness to behave that way. She should have to foot the therapy bill for that poor child, in addition to whatever else she should be punished with.
|
|
|
Post by PEArfect on Oct 12, 2014 0:42:20 GMT
"she must be assessed and treated for any mental health conditions."
This was my first thought. She needs to be evaluated. She should never be allowed to teach again. It really makes me wonder how she looks at her own children. I hope they are getting child protective services involved for them.
|
|
|
Post by 950nancy on Oct 12, 2014 0:48:38 GMT
It reminded me of the lady who chased after the 6th grader years ago. She went to jail and when she got out got caught having sex with him. These people have to have something wrong with them. Clearly she cannot put herself in her right mind.
|
|
PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
|
Post by PrettyInPeank on Oct 12, 2014 0:49:07 GMT
I didn't read the story, but I'm wondering how many years a sentence of an indecent act carries?
I must have assumed it was a man subconsciously, because as I read the notes, I thought, "This sounds like it was written by a woman. Wait, maybe it is a woman?" I'm not ashamed to admit that. Statistically sex crimes are overwhelmingly committed by men, so I don't look at that like it's discriminatory.-
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 6:24:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 0:58:21 GMT
Can a 10 year old boy even "do it?" That seems so young!
|
|
|
Post by bluepoprocks on Oct 12, 2014 0:58:55 GMT
I think getting help with what has to be a mental problem will be more helpful than jail time. It seems like when people who do this stuff only get jail time they come out and do the same thing. Hopefully a mental health professional can help her and stop her from do this again or something worse in the future.
|
|
|
Post by salem on Oct 12, 2014 1:06:39 GMT
I think that anyone who can look at a child and think romantic thoughts and want to have sex with that child, serves no purpose on this earth. It's disgusting and don't even play the mental health card. It's just wrong and if it was a male teacher there would be no evaluations. He would be strung up by his balls and people would be screaming for action. This woman should receive the same harsh punishment and hopefully a very long jail sentence as any man would receive.
|
|
|
Post by brina on Oct 12, 2014 1:06:46 GMT
switch the genders and I am sure the sentence would have been much harsher.
|
|
valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
|
Post by valleyview on Oct 12, 2014 1:13:09 GMT
I think that any guilty verdict like this should carry the loss of a teaching license.
It is very difficult to imagine having a student's name tattooed on oneself. Yikes! That is crazy!
Is there a permanent sexual predator status in Australia?
Legally, indecent exposure seems to be her crime, and that is a misdemeanor. Requiring mental health evaluation is to everyone's benefit, and she really seems to need that.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 6:24:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 1:22:29 GMT
I think getting help with what has to be a mental problem will be more helpful than jail time. It seems like when people who do this stuff only get jail time they come out and do the same thing. Hopefully a mental health professional can help her and stop her from do this again or something worse in the future. While I agree with this I also personally think that predators with a preference for children can never fully overcome their desires. Meds and therapy may help her not act out again, but I think it will be a constant struggle to not displace her affections in the future. IMO she needs a combination of judicial consequences as well as intense therapeutic intervention.
|
|
|
Post by scrapmaven on Oct 12, 2014 1:22:34 GMT
There is no cure for pedophilia. The same punishment should apply to both men and women and it should be a life sentence, since it's not something that can ever be controlled successfully. Sounds harsh and it is harsh. She's dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by AussieMeg on Oct 12, 2014 1:54:52 GMT
switch the genders and I am sure the sentence would have been much harsher.
I can't help but think this is true.
I think that any guilty verdict like this should carry the loss of a teaching license. It is very difficult to imagine having a student's name tattooed on oneself. Yikes! That is crazy! Is there a permanent sexual predator status in Australia? Legally, indecent exposure seems to be her crime, and that is a misdemeanor. Requiring mental health evaluation is to everyone's benefit, and she really seems to need that.
We have a sex offenders register, and I believe that once you're on it, you're on it forever. People on the register "must keep the police informed of their whereabouts, certain personal information, and the names of their own children or children they may have "unavoidable" contact with".
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 6:24:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 2:02:44 GMT
There is no cure for pedophilia. The same punishment should apply to both men and women and it should be a life sentence, since it's not something that can ever be controlled successfully. Sounds harsh and it is harsh. She's dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Oct 12, 2014 2:15:02 GMT
That is wrong. She should lose her kids and be ordered not to have contact with any children. I don't know what jail time she should receive as apparently there was no actual act and you can't jail for someone for what might have happened.
|
|
|
Post by corinne11 on Oct 12, 2014 2:57:21 GMT
When I saw this story, the first thing I thought should have happened, was that the judge should have ordered her to have the tattoo removed. How on earth did she even explain that tattoo to her husband?
I also want to know how she managed to take the child to her house? On the rare occasion I have had to take students home I ALWAYS take another adult in the car and the child sits in the back. I have also taken 3 children to a nearby school event, but once again, all of them sit in the back seat. As a teacher, being alone with any student is something you try hard to avoid.
I am pretty sure she will not teach again or gain any employment that involves her being around children.
We are having enough trouble finding male teachers prepared to teach in primary schools ( where so many kids need positive role models) and then cases like this occur. Children should be able to trust their teachers, male or female.
Corinne
.
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on Oct 12, 2014 3:02:54 GMT
We have a sex offenders register, and I believe that once you're on it, you're on it forever. People on the register "must keep the police informed of their whereabouts, certain personal information, and the names of their own children or children they may have "unavoidable" contact with". I couldn't open the original link, but the story I did find said she must register for 8 years I think. I'm assuming the two year corrective order would be the equivalent to probation. Clearly, she needs mental health treatment and hopefully gets it. This article also said suggested part of her defense was this happened because of her inexperience as a teacher!?! This definitely reminds me of Mary Kay Letourneau, who ended up in jail for 7 years because she couldn't stay away from Vili after serving her initial 3 month sentence.
|
|
|
Post by AussieMeg on Oct 12, 2014 3:22:55 GMT
We have a sex offenders register, and I believe that once you're on it, you're on it forever. People on the register "must keep the police informed of their whereabouts, certain personal information, and the names of their own children or children they may have "unavoidable" contact with". I couldn't open the original link, but the story I did find said she must register for 8 years I think. I'm assuming the two year corrective order would be the equivalent to probation. Clearly, she needs mental health treatment and hopefully gets it. This article also said suggested part of her defense was this happened because of her inexperience as a teacher!?!
Ah yes, it does say 8 years on the register. Hmmm. I thought it was (and it should be) for life.
And as for the defence that it may have been due to her inexperience as a teacher - give me a break! I have a 10yo son, and this is his teacher's first year teaching. I'm pretty sure, without having to ask her, that she hasn't propositioned my son or any of his mates.
Sickening.
I agree that she is clearly mentally ill and requires extensive treatment, but I wish there had been jail time as well.
|
|
AllieC
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,059
Jul 4, 2014 6:57:02 GMT
|
Post by AllieC on Oct 12, 2014 3:33:53 GMT
I couldn't open the original link, but the story I did find said she must register for 8 years I think. I'm assuming the two year corrective order would be the equivalent to probation. Clearly, she needs mental health treatment and hopefully gets it. This article also said suggested part of her defense was this happened because of her inexperience as a teacher!?!
Ah yes, it does say 8 years on the register. Hmmm. I thought it was (and it should be) for life.
And as for the defence that it may have been due to her inexperience as a teacher - give me a break! I have a 10yo son, and this is his teacher's first year teaching. I'm pretty sure, without having to ask her, that she hasn't propositioned my son or any of his mates.
Sickening.
I agree that she is clearly mentally ill and requires extensive treatment, but I wish there had been jail time as well.
The registers vary from state to state and I'm pretty sure it is up to the judge it impose the term that the offender is on the register for. Serious offenders I believe will be on for life or 20 years etc. I've done lots of education sessions for teens about sexting through my work and we talk about under 18's being able to be listed for 8 years on the Victorian register if found guilty of a child pornography offence. I think this teacher got off lightly and I think that if the genders had been reversed it would have been very different sentence wise. She obviously needs serious help but no jail terms feels wrong to me.
|
|
|
Post by my2apps2 on Oct 12, 2014 5:37:00 GMT
There is no cure for pedophilia. The same punishment should apply to both men and women and it should be a life sentence, since it's not something that can ever be controlled successfully. Sounds harsh and it is harsh. She's dangerous. I agree with this completely. I simply do not believe that pedophiles or sexual predators can be rehabilitated.
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Oct 12, 2014 6:26:57 GMT
Pedophilia is a difficult topic to discuss. People understandably have very deep reactions to it. I have many of those same reactions too.
However, in this case, I think the charge sounds reasonable. I mean she did attempt to engage but didn't actually molest him, correct? I don't think she can be charged for anything more when nothing more happened (even though that was not for trying). I truly hope she gets some help because this doesn't sound like just pedophilia. Keeping her in a treatment program, not allowing her to teach or work in an occupation where children are involved, and keeping her on a registry all sound like reasonable and necessary things.
I'm a firm believer in getting people help, even those who have disorders like pedophilia that make them vile and despicable to the rest of us. I want to protect children as much as anyone, but I also believe anyone with a mental health disorder deserves to be treated. Not to mention that many of these people suffered abuse as children themselves, developing this disorder as a result. That kind of breaks my heart. I don't think throwing them in prison for the rest of their lives is the answer, especially for a case like this woman. No, pedophilia probably can't be cured (the desire is probably always there) but it can be treated.
And as someone who was molested and propositioned as a child by my friend's father, this is not a subject I take lightly at all.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 6:24:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 12:20:22 GMT
I seriously want to vomit. That poor child. And the teachers family. I cant imagine how mortified they must be.
|
|
|
Post by anxiousmom on Oct 12, 2014 12:51:59 GMT
I just can't help but wonder why, in this case, there is a distinction between mental health issues and pedophilia? If we change the genders involved, a man saying and doing these things to a young girl, I am reasonably certain that the discussion and punishment would be different.
I understand that pedophilia is, at it's base, a mental health problem-but as a general rule, it is punishment first, counseling/mental health treatment second.
It seems so foreign to us that a woman would be attracted to a 10 year old boy sexually rather than maternally.
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Oct 12, 2014 15:07:25 GMT
I think getting help with what has to be a mental problem will be more helpful than jail time. It seems like when people who do this stuff only get jail time they come out and do the same thing. Hopefully a mental health professional can help her and stop her from do this again or something worse in the future. While I agree with this I also personally think that predators with a preference for children can never fully overcome their desires. Meds and therapy may help her not act out again, but I think it will be a constant struggle to not displace her affections in the future. IMO she needs a combination of judicial consequences as well as intense therapeutic intervention. I have a good friend who is a therapist working with sex offenders, intense therapeutic intervention, can work but for most it is a constant struggle. She says if they get caught early on and want to learn how to not act on desires and how to create negative associations with those desires they can go on to have fairly normal lives. I think this woman got of very easily! I do hope she has to remain on a sex offender list and stay away from schools. I feel sorry for her children.
|
|
|
Post by maryland on Oct 12, 2014 16:46:22 GMT
I think she should be held to the same standards a male teacher would be held too. I don't think genders should be treated differently. It's wrong for both.
|
|
|
Post by whipea on Oct 12, 2014 17:39:40 GMT
There have been many incidents of female teachers propositioning or having sexual relationships with students. Though most are high school, but a few are lower grades. Look at Mary Kay Laturneu(sp). She was married, had four children and was sexually active with a thirteen year old sixth grade student and got pregnant. She had two children from this boy before he finished middle school. She served seven years after failing to comply with the court's orders. She was about 35 at the time and once the boy reached age 18 they married. I think they are still married - creepy.
This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine but people throw the term Pedophilia around for any sexual offender where the offense involves a minor. It is a diagnosis done by a doctor just like any mental health disorder. Pedophilia is paraphillia which is a mental health disorder where the individual is sexually stimulated by persons or objects out of the norm. Many are legal and somewhat socially acceptable but some are very dangerous. The correct term unless you are a health professional is child molester or preferential child molester. We do not know if an individual is a pedophile unless labeled as such by a health professional.
With that in mind, generally treatment to eliminate the behavior is not successful. For example, if you are a heterosexual and I put you in treatment program to make you a homosexual, will your attraction to the opposite sex diminish and change you so you are attracted to people of the same sex? Not likely. You may be able to fake it, but that innate attraction to the opposite sex will not disappear.
So sex offenders must be managed by very intense supervision, support and incarceration. But can a person be incarcerated forever? No, so support/education is also important so if the offender is motivated to remain out of an institution they will recognize triggers and learn to avoid situations where they may offend. It is a conundrum.
Footnote; I have worked in the field and am a criminal justice professor.
|
|
tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
|
Post by tduby1 on Oct 12, 2014 22:31:39 GMT
I think getting help with what has to be a mental problem will be more helpful than jail time. It seems like when people who do this stuff only get jail time they come out and do the same thing. Hopefully a mental health professional can help her and stop her from do this again or something worse in the future. I really truly don't get this. Would you say the same if it was a male teacher with a 10 year old girl? Why is a man a pedophile and pervert (and he is) when he does this but I woman mentally ill. Granted, she sounds a little off balance but aren't all pedophiles and perverts?
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Oct 12, 2014 23:04:16 GMT
I think getting help with what has to be a mental problem will be more helpful than jail time. It seems like when people who do this stuff only get jail time they come out and do the same thing. Hopefully a mental health professional can help her and stop her from do this again or something worse in the future. I really truly don't get this. Would you say the same if it was a male teacher with a 10 year old girl? Why is a man a pedophile and pervert (and he is) when he does this but I woman mentally ill. Granted, she sounds a little off balance but aren't all pedophiles and perverts? You aren't quoting me, but my opinion wouldn't change at all if it were a man or a woman. Please don't assume that people who talk about pedophilia being a mental illness consider it different for men vs. women. That would be ridiculous--it's not different whatsoever. I'm not saying the woman in this post shouldn't get a prison sentence, if the law for her particular offense involves a prison sentence, then one should be served. What does the law say in your area OP about enticement of minors? I content that if they are true pedophiles (and as one poster pointed out, we can know that--that's for a mental health professional to determine) then they should get help as well. I was curious since the OP asked about what the laws in our area state. I looked mine up for the state of Ohio and found this: Criminal Child Enticement It is illegal for an adult to coax, solicit, or otherwise entice a child younger than 14 years old to accompany the adult (such as by entering a vehicle), even if the adult does not know the age of the child. Increased penalties apply if the adult does so with a sexual motivation. Criminal child enticement is a first degree misdemeanor, which incurs a fine, at least three (and up to 11) years in prison, or both. However, if the defendant has prior convictions involving a child younger than 17 years old, this crime is a fifth degree felony. Penalties include a fine, at least six months (and up to one year) in jail, or both. I'll admit, the sentencing part confused me; why do they get at least three years but if they have prior convictions they get at least 6 months? That sounds like a lesser sentence for a worse offender. Or am I not reading that right?
|
|
|
Post by bluepoprocks on Oct 13, 2014 1:08:14 GMT
I really truly don't get this. Would you say the same if it was a male teacher with a 10 year old girl? Why is a man a pedophile and pervert (and he is) when he does this but I woman mentally ill. Granted, she sounds a little off balance but aren't all pedophiles and perverts?
It doesn't matter to me if it's a man or a woman. All pedophiles and perverts have a mental health issue. I don't believe you can cure a pedophile but I do believe that a mental health professional may be able to help some of them learn how not to act on their urges. Since the prisons are already over crowded and people are released early for good behavior all the time including pedophiles and perverts wouldn't it be better if we at least attempt to control their mental illness with professional help. I promise you if we just put them in prison they will commit the same crime when release without help from a mental health professional.
|
|