bethany102399
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Post by bethany102399 on Sept 14, 2019 1:23:30 GMT
This came up today, and it's one I'm curious as to the peas opinion on it. This is a totally hypothetical situation, I'm fine and did not enjoy the culinary delights of Taco Bell for dinner, though now i'm craving a burrito.
Lets say you walk into Taco Bell. Your blood sugar is low, and before you can do anything, you briefly pass out hitting the floor. You're able to get up, under your own power. The manager comes over and asks if you need assistance. You decline.
Later, it's found that when you passed out, your neurological functions were impaired. Medically speaking, you weren't able to advocate for yourself at the time you declined care. Lets say there were injuries that happened when you passed out.
What is Taco Bell's responsibility in this matter? To over-ride your decision to decline care? Is it reasonable to expect someone managing a taco bell to NOT take someone at their word when they fall on their property and then decline care?
discuss
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 14, 2019 1:26:13 GMT
You always have the option to decline care.
I would not interfere except to call 911 if a person said they did not want/need help.
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Post by nlwilkins on Sept 14, 2019 1:36:42 GMT
Some of my thoughts about the scenario:
1.Taco Bell should not have to hire RN's or other medical personnel to be on hand to evaluate customers who might pass out and then decline assistance.
2.But, it might be reasonable for the manager to insist on having the customer taken to closest ER for evaluation.
3. It would be reckless for the customer to drive after such an incident without being checked out.
4.By refusing any assistance the customer then took on full responsibility for what happened because . . .
5. If the manager tried to over ride the customer's refusal, the customer might make a huge scene.
6. Manager should then call 911 and let them take over - possibly have police come in to keep customer from driving, or whatever.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Sept 14, 2019 1:48:51 GMT
You, as the person who collapsed, have the right to decline care from EMTs.
It is the responsibility of a business/ manager on duty to call 911, if for no other reason as they need to be able to prove to their insurance provider that they took all reasonable steps.
The manager also should have asked you to fill out an incident report.
I hope you are okay now.
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Post by littlemama on Sept 14, 2019 1:54:26 GMT
The manager is under no obligation to call 911 for someone who is conscious, lucid, and declining care. The manager should have completed an incident report that included the fact that the person declined care. Ultimately, any injuries were not caused by any negligence on the part of taco bell, they were caused by the patron's medical condition.
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Post by myshelly on Sept 14, 2019 1:59:29 GMT
The manager of Taco Bell has a duty to Taco Bell. He should follow Taco Bell’s corporate policy for handling slips, falls, and medical situations. If that policy includes calling 911 and letting a professional evaluate the situation so that it does not come back as a liability on Taco Bell, that seems perfectly reasonable.
The person who fell has the right to refuse help from the EMTs (or to leave the premises before the EMTs arrive). You should always have the right to refuse treatment. You do not have the right to keep a business from calling 911 for assistance.
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Post by papersilly on Sept 14, 2019 2:01:45 GMT
I don't expect the manager or any employees to have enough medical knowledge, training, or experience to override your refusal of medical care if it appears that you are lucid and in control of your body. They did the obligatory, "are you ok?". Unless you are under obvious medical distress, I think they've done what they are probably trained to do.
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NoWomanNoCry
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Sept 14, 2019 2:11:33 GMT
You always have the option to decline care. I would not interfere except to call 911 if a person said they did not want/need help. I agree, everyone is so lawsuit happy these days so if you say “I'm ok” im going to move on. |
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bethany102399
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Post by bethany102399 on Sept 14, 2019 2:35:56 GMT
Even if it's later proven that you're not lucid enough to make the call that you don't need assistance?
Again, this is purely hypothetical.This was a topic of conversation today, and those with a medical background felt differently because to them, the person who passed out was not lucid enough to say I'm ok. The fact that the average Taco Bell employee, or manager for that matter would not have . the medical background to tell that the person who fell isn't capable of giving their own ok. To the rest of us, Taco Bell did what it was supposed to do by offering assistance, but taking the decline at face value.
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smcast
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Post by smcast on Sept 14, 2019 2:40:06 GMT
Even if it's later proven that you're not lucid enough to make the call that you don't need assistance? Again, this is purely hypothetical.This was a topic of conversation today, and those with a medical background felt differently because to them, the person who passed out was not lucid enough to say I'm ok. The fact that the average Taco Bell employee, or manager for that matter would not have . the medical background to tell that the person who fell isn't capable of giving their own ok. To the rest of us, Taco Bell did what it was supposed to do by offering assistance, but taking the decline at face value. That would be up to the medical professionals to decide at that point, once they arrive and assess you. |
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bethany102399
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Post by bethany102399 on Sept 14, 2019 2:47:51 GMT
That would be up to the medical professionals to decide at that point, once they arrive and assess you. Right, but if you're saying I don't need assistance, is it Taco Bell's responsibility to say ok. or to say I'm going to override you. Can you come back and say, clearly I was not ok and now I'm injured because you didn't call for assistance when I fell? Or did you wave that right when you declined assistance even though you weren't in your right mind at the time you did it? Does that make sense? Basically, I'm saying are you still accepting liability, in saying you're fine, when you're not fine. How is it Taco Bell's responsibility to assess your mental state at the time? |
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Post by ~summer~ on Sept 14, 2019 2:52:26 GMT
Did you actually lose consciousness? or hit your head? if so they probably should have called 911. If you just got faint and fell to the floor then refused treatment I think they were in the right.
I'm curious who said your "neurological functions were impaired"?
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 14, 2019 3:00:10 GMT
I don't get to override a person's denial of their own body. Every red cross first aid training video starts with asking the person if you can help
I can call 911 and let the customer know that I did. I should give aid if a customer declines.
Friends or family, I'll do whatever, but strangers and customers? No way.
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bethany102399
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Post by bethany102399 on Sept 14, 2019 3:02:40 GMT
Did you actually lose consciousness? or hit your head? if so they probably should have called 911. If you just got faint and fell to the floor then refused treatment I think they were in the right. I'm curious who said your "neurological functions were impaired"? This is a hypothetical conversation I had with a group of people today. Some of them in the group had a medical background, which led us down an interesting rabbit hole. The phrasing is mine, trying to describe how someone may not be lucid after passing out. The key point we were debating was the expectation on the restaurant to override the customer saying they didn't need help. those with a medical background were basing that expectation on their own knowledge that the person may not be lucid. I question here that I keep coming back to is whether or not declining care is absolute. By declining care, are you effectively letting Taco Bell off the hook? Can you come back later and say it doesn't count because i was impaired? How is it up to a fast food worker to make that decision? |
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Deleted
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May 1, 2024 21:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2019 3:03:39 GMT
If someone fell because of a medical condition and not a hazard on the property and that person declines medical assistance, I think the manager did the right thing to not call 911 unless it was 1) obvious that person sustained a physical injury, 2) isn't stable enough to walk, or 3) speech is impaired.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 14, 2019 3:14:54 GMT
Taco bell is off the hook as long as there was no hazard that causes the woman to fall.
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Deleted
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May 1, 2024 21:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2019 12:35:10 GMT
Taco bell is off the hook as long as there was no hazard that causes the woman to fall. I agree. One can't insist on calling for help when the person has specifically decine and it's not up to Taco bell to evaluate how mentally capable that person is in making that decision IMO.They should however record the incident and the conversation in their accident book so that there is a record of what happened at the time, to clear themselves in case anything comes up in the future. |
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 14, 2019 13:17:02 GMT
You, as the person who collapsed, have the right to decline care from EMTs. It is the responsibility of a business/ manager on duty to call 911, if for no other reason as they need to be able to prove to their insurance provider that they took all reasonable steps. The manager also should have asked you to fill out an incident report. I hope you are okay now. All of that. |
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Sept 14, 2019 13:41:01 GMT
The thing is, it's NOT up to a fast food worker to make that call. It's up to, most likely, TB's corporate legal department who will almost certainly have laid out as a policy what to do in the case of a medical incident/injury. It's only up to the fast food worker to follow the process they're told to. And, when in doubt, always call 911. There's no charge if treatment is refused, and as others have said, if the "patient" is able to get up and leave before they get there, then that would pretty well absolve TB and its employeee, because they certainly can't be expected to hold someone who had a medical incident against their will.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Sept 14, 2019 14:47:22 GMT
This is a common occurrence at my work. Guests are older and pretty sedentary and have issues like uncontrolled diabetes, on oxygen, and general decline due to age. We always call 911 for assistance if the guest loses consciousness. However, if they wake up and decline care, we call to let 911 know so they can stop the assistance from arriving if they aren't here yet. Typically, the ambulance shows up, the guest declines care and goes home with a safe driver. We cannot force not force someone to accept medical help.
ETA: I want Taco Bell now too...
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Deleted
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May 1, 2024 21:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2019 15:19:07 GMT
This has actually happened to me. I have natural healthy low blood pressure and immediately after eating a meal, it can drop severely. This happens to a lot of people, not unique to me.
I was with DH, we paid our bill at the table and were walking out of the restaurant when we spotted some friends at a table near the entrance. We stopped to talk to them and I passed out cold in a heap on the floor. I came to in less than a minute, with a whole crowd hovering over me. 😲 Management wanted to call 911, but I knew I was fine, refused and we left. I would have been mortified if they had tried to make a scene and make me wait for an ambulance. If I found out later that I had suffered an injury during my incident I wouldn’t have even thought of holding the restaurant responsible.
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on Sept 14, 2019 15:49:12 GMT
This type of situation happened to Actress Natasha Richardson. I just googled her story.
She fell while skiing. Medics assessed her. She said she was fine. Was lucid, cognizant, and no indications of anything being wrong. She refused any further medical treatment.
Since she appeared to be fine with no obvious issues or impairment, there would have been no way to know she was hemorrhaging inside her brain.
Two hours later, an extremely painful headache. She was transported to hospital, and it was determined that she was hemorrhaging inside her brain. She passed away,
The first responders/assessment medics are not at fault (nor would Taco Bell be in that similar situation). If a person appears to be okay, and the person refuses any further medical assistance or treatment then all responsibilities are on them, not the first responders and not the establishment where the incident occurred.
If an incident happened and the person involved was acting in an unusual manner, not fully cognizant, appeared to be lacking normal functioning capabilities or any other red flags appeared to indicate that were not okay, then emergency personal should be called and they would take it from there.
If an incident happened and the person involved claim they were fine, but someone who came to render aid thought otherwise (because of red flags) they should discreetly(or not) ask for emergency assistance to be called. In most cases, emergency personal usually arrive fairly quickly. If necessary, one can always make the injured party car keys temporarily go missing so that they cannot leave the premises, until the emergency personal arrives and can make an assessment.
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Sept 16, 2019 0:22:34 GMT
I don't think Taco Bell can be expected to know that the person isn't lucid unless they're presenting symptoms. Ergo, I wouldn't think the peeps on who refused treatment should have a case.
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