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Post by Bridget in MD on Oct 18, 2019 12:34:02 GMT
I've been following this story on FB. I knew something like this was going to happen. Some of the comments towards the girl are downright disgusting, but I am trying to ignore all that and focus on the real story - is she the first female Eagle? patch.com/new-york/southampton/young-woman-takes-next-step-eagle-scout-rank-despite-pushback?fbclid=IwAR1XSI6jeTHtqy4BlazAHJNhau-7hzHQnZKvannCH832lAsiBj6kMJh9K2AI guess this girl in NY has been participating in Scouts Canada and has earned their top award. She joined BSA Feb 1 (when all girls were allowed to join), and there's a section in the Guide to Advancement that states how to correlate time in a foreign scouting program to the BSA program. However, she's not Canadian, she's a US Citizen, who lived in NY and I guess participated in the Canadian Scout program. I can't figure out if she actually was given the Life rank from the BSA, or is stating that her time in the Canada program counts and that's how she's Life. Regardless, she held an EBOR so she can be the first female Eagle - which goes against a policy that BSA set there would be no "first" female Eagle - there will be a first class of female Eagles, which they did so no one would race just to be the first Eagle... Per the article, this is how I'm leaning: The BSA gave an analogy: "If you regularly sit in on classes at Columbia University, but aren't matriculated in the school, after auditing a full course load and after the traditional four year college experience, you unfortunately still are not eligible for a Columbia diploma if you were not officially enrolled. Traditionally, BSA rules say a young person can no longer earn Eagle once they turn 18. Because many new Scouts BSA members are only able to join for the first time on Feb. 1, 2019, that rule would have unfairly excluded those members who were beyond a certain age threshold from having the opportunity to earn Eagle. By offering this one-time extension, everyone who is willing to work for it will have a fair opportunity to earn Eagle." Bet there will be a lawsuit! UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Thoughts? As a mom of a (Boy) Life Scout, I kind of feel like she's looking for a loophole to be first - even though BSA doesn't want a first female Eagle just for this reason... |
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by peppermintpatty on Oct 18, 2019 12:55:42 GMT
Your link doesn't work.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Oct 18, 2019 14:18:22 GMT
Fixed it! I think.... thanks! |
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 1:38:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 14:34:43 GMT
I don't understand why we as women want to support an organization that has ignored us for over 100 years. The only reason why they are letting women in is because their membership numbers have fallen so harshly over the past 10 that BSA cannot support themselves unless they open their doors. Opening doors is one thing. Pushing for something where BSA continues to push back says this is something I should spend my time, money or effort on. Girl Scouts has the Gold award. Why not dedicate our time to an organization specifically empowering women, to make the award better, more highly recognized, and let BSA lie in the bed they have made for themselves?
Is this a glass ceiling we really want to break? What about creating and strengthening our own opportunities?
Sorry, I've had to deal with too much testosterone the past three days. I feel like I'm back in 1978 when the Baptist church sent me home from vacation bible school because my mom dressed me in a tank top and shorts during the summer Texas was experiencing 117 degree temps.
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 18, 2019 15:12:58 GMT
I don't understand why we as women want to support an organization that has ignored us for over 100 years. The only reason why they are letting women in is because their membership numbers have fallen so harshly over the past 10 that BSA cannot support themselves unless they open their doors. Opening doors is one thing. Pushing for something where BSA continues to push back says this is something I should spend my time, money or effort on. Girl Scouts has the Gold award. Why not dedicate our time to an organization specifically empowering women, to make the award better, more highly recognized, and let BSA lie in the bed they have made for themselves? Is this a glass ceiling we really want to break? What about creating and strengthening our own opportunities? Sorry, I've had to deal with too much testosterone the past three days. I feel like I'm back in 1978 when the Baptist church sent me home from vacation bible school because my mom dressed me in a tank top and shorts during the summer Texas was experiencing 117 degree temps. I agree they are only letting women in because of their terrible history of sexual abuse and homophobia. However, I'm glad they made the changes. Virtually, every other country has scouts where male and female are included. It took the U.S. way too long.
As a girl, I would have preferred doing boy scout activities. I went on one activity with my friend and her boy scout leader dad. We hiked a mountain! We also volunteered at a boy scout camp working in the kitchen. We got to go zip lining, shoot a musket (she beat every boy!), and do other fun things. I know the girl scouts have vastly improved their program over the years. Also, the boy scout program is much stronger where I live. There were very few opportunities for girls.
I'd personally love it if the girl scouts would now be more inclusive and allow boys to join. It's my understanding they let trans girls join.
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Post by mikewozowski on Oct 18, 2019 15:24:25 GMT
most "boy scout activities" are not exclusive to boy scouts. a girl scout troop can do whatever activities they choose to do. it has to do with the leader seeking out those opportunities and being interested/able to make those things happen. my girl scout troop did, backpacking, overnight canoe trips, tons of camping, a trip to colorado, sailing and more.
i guess i am old school. i don't see the need for girls to join boy scouts or boys to join girl scouts.
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Post by busy on Oct 18, 2019 15:47:55 GMT
i don't see the need for girls to join boy scouts or boys to join girl scouts. So where are gender non-conforming kids supposed to belong? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 16:13:30 GMT
Our Girl Scout troop leaders are phenomenal! We camp minimum four times a year. Our girls have accumulated ~60 hiking miles since their Junior days...they just joined Senior rank this year. My daughter has zip lined - upside down - across the canyons near Garden of the Gods, been white water rafting along the Colorado River, canoed the Arkansas River, swam with sting rays in the Cayman Islands, climbed Dunns River Falls in Jamaica, and many other smaller, weekend, outdoor activities. Summer 2020 they are going to Tennessee and will be hiking part of the Appalachian Trail. She has done more cool outdoor activities in her GS troop that I have my entire lifetime. Our troop is not the norm. We are very blessed.
Another way I think about BSA, SA (or whatever the hell they are called now)...BSA are only letting women/girls into their organization as a last resort. Do we want to teach our girls to be a last resort? Not me.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 18, 2019 19:30:52 GMT
This part of the article confuses me:
"Sydney joined the Boy Scouts at the age of four, following her older brother, Eagle Scout Bryan and has become a face for change."
Is it just poorly written, and trying to say that she'd "hang out and do Boy Scouty stuff even though she wasn't a member?"
I would think, generally, that to qualify as an Eagle Scout, all your work specific to attaining that rank would need to be done after you had formally joined BSA. If you did some other Eagle-worthy project, good for you - but part of the rules require supervision and consultation along the way, don't they?
And yes, my daughter is a Girl Scout and they do lots of camping and physical and outdoorsy things - they're not a gung ho outdoors group, but they definitely don't just sit around and make cute crafts for nursing homes, either.
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Post by ntsf on Oct 18, 2019 19:37:11 GMT
girl scouts and boy scouts are just such different organizations. one is hierarchical... there is a path, you earn ranks to progress.. etc. one is led by the participants and there is no defined path, for good or for bad. so girl scouts don't feel they "have to " earn anything, they have the opportunity to... they can also just spend their time camping or robotics, or engineering.. or whatever. climbing and skiing and tree climbing are new badges. I am taking a group of older GS to London next summer, and they will camp out for a week with 7000 other girl guides, girl scouts, and boy scouts. not a bad adventure. my own son has an eagle award.. and I worked at boy scout camp way back when they had girls in explorers..
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 18, 2019 19:53:11 GMT
And yes, my daughter is a Girl Scout and they do lots of camping and physical and outdoorsy things - they're not a gung ho outdoors group, but they definitely don't just sit around and make cute crafts for nursing homes, either. I agree. The problem is there aren't strong programs in my area for girl scouts. There's more opportunities if a girl does boy scouts. |
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 18, 2019 20:04:05 GMT
The problem is there aren't strong programs in my area for girl scouts. There's more opportunities if a girl does boy scouts. Oh, I agree, it depends on what is available, and I think it's great to be able to have the option! |
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mich5481
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Post by mich5481 on Oct 18, 2019 20:16:44 GMT
I don't understand why we as women want to support an organization that has ignored us for over 100 years. The only reason why they are letting women in is because their membership numbers have fallen so harshly over the past 10 that BSA cannot support themselves unless they open their doors. Opening doors is one thing. Pushing for something where BSA continues to push back says this is something I should spend my time, money or effort on. Girl Scouts has the Gold award. Why not dedicate our time to an organization specifically empowering women, to make the award better, more highly recognized, and let BSA lie in the bed they have made for themselves? Is this a glass ceiling we really want to break? What about creating and strengthening our own opportunities? Sorry, I've had to deal with too much testosterone the past three days. I feel like I'm back in 1978 when the Baptist church sent me home from vacation bible school because my mom dressed me in a tank top and shorts during the summer Texas was experiencing 117 degree temps. Why not go for the Gold Award and be satisfied? Because it doesn't have the same cachet as Eagle Scout. I have 3 brothers, all of whom participated in Boy Scouts at some point. I was in Girl Scouts until middle school, when I was placed in a new troop with people I didn't know (as there was a huge drop off in girls participating at that age). If the Gold Award was as universally regarded as the Eagle Scout rank, I would have pursued it. My mom said it was a pity the one child of hers that would have completed the Eagle Scout requirements was ineligible for it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 3:37:58 GMT
The Gold award is becoming more well known as more women join the ranks of leadership. I agree that GS Gold doesn't hold the same mystique as Eagle but it won't get any better if we (women in general) don't start stepping in and helping to make it better.
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mich5481
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Post by mich5481 on Oct 19, 2019 3:43:09 GMT
The Gold award is becoming more well known as more women join the ranks of leadership. I agree that GS Gold doesn't hold the same mystique as Eagle but it won't get any better if we (women in general) don't start stepping in and helping to make it better. I guess, but it wasn't helpful 20+ years ago when I was applying for college. It was a super big deal if a guy was an Eagle Scout, but it felt like no one knew what the Gold Award was about. I guess I'm frustrated by one more example of women having to work harder than men for recognition. |
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NoWomanNoCry
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Oct 19, 2019 3:47:24 GMT
I don't understand why we as women want to support an organization that has ignored us for over 100 years. The only reason why they are letting women in is because their membership numbers have fallen so harshly over the past 10 that BSA cannot support themselves unless they open their doors. Opening doors is one thing. Pushing for something where BSA continues to push back says this is something I should spend my time, money or effort on. Girl Scouts has the Gold award. Why not dedicate our time to an organization specifically empowering women, to make the award better, more highly recognized, and let BSA lie in the bed they have made for themselves? Is this a glass ceiling we really want to break? What about creating and strengthening our own opportunities? Sorry, I've had to deal with too much testosterone the past three days. I feel like I'm back in 1978 when the Baptist church sent me home from vacation bible school because my mom dressed me in a tank top and shorts during the summer Texas was experiencing 117 degree temps. Omg same thing happened to me at a Pentecostal Church in Texas (southeast Texas). It was the summer and my friend and I went there for vacation bible school type thing (we didn’t belong to the church they came by our apt complex inviting all the kids there) anyways we wore shorts..nothing short for me because I was a fat kid who had body issues, when we got there a lady told us we were dressed like whores and need to cover. I’ll never ever forget that and every time I hear about that church or would drive by it I get mad. It’s one of the many reasons I refuse to attend church. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 11:37:55 GMT
The Gold award is becoming more well known as more women join the ranks of leadership. I agree that GS Gold doesn't hold the same mystique as Eagle but it won't get any better if we (women in general) don't start stepping in and helping to make it better. I guess, but it wasn't helpful 20+ years ago when I was applying for college. It was a super big deal if a guy was an Eagle Scout, but it felt like no one knew what the Gold Award was about. I guess I'm frustrated by one more example of women having to work harder than men for recognition. I agree that 20 years ago it would not have helped because there were very few women in leadership. I can say these past five years as I have watched Ambassador girls graduate from high school I have also watched them receive numerous scholarships due to their Girl Scout activities - community service and Bronze/Silver/Gold awards - be the deciding factor. The tides are changing for this generation of young ladies and those coming behind them. |
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 19, 2019 13:00:32 GMT
It was my understanding their would be a mass awarding so that no one girl could be "the first."
BSA made this move in order to save itself due to declining enrollment. I don't think it will work.
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Post by Basket1lady on Oct 19, 2019 13:05:37 GMT
I don't understand why we as women want to support an organization that has ignored us for over 100 years. The only reason why they are letting women in is because their membership numbers have fallen so harshly over the past 10 that BSA cannot support themselves unless they open their doors. Opening doors is one thing. Pushing for something where BSA continues to push back says this is something I should spend my time, money or effort on. Girl Scouts has the Gold award. Why not dedicate our time to an organization specifically empowering women, to make the award better, more highly recognized, and let BSA lie in the bed they have made for themselves? Is this a glass ceiling we really want to break? What about creating and strengthening our own opportunities? Sorry, I've had to deal with too much testosterone the past three days. I feel like I'm back in 1978 when the Baptist church sent me home from vacation bible school because my mom dressed me in a tank top and shorts during the summer Texas was experiencing 117 degree temps. This seems reminiscent of a “separate but equal” mentality. I get what you are saying, but I’m not going to choose what another is willing to fight for. We could say this about women who fought for the right to attend colleges, service academies, have bank accounts in their own name, etc. So much of what we take for granted now, someone fought for the right to do it. I will also also say that I’m a fan of same-gender activities, especially for teens. There’s a lot to be gained when they aren’t trying to impress the opposite sex. My DD attended a same-gender program for middle school and attends an all women college. I don’t mind that BSA now allows girls to join, but I do support the continuation of same gender troops or activities. |
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Post by ntsf on Oct 19, 2019 17:19:13 GMT
I got my first class award, the highest award in Girl Scouts at the time. I didn't get it for scholarships, for brownie points, for whatever. I got it because I wanted to challenge myself. I learned new skills and became more confident.
in the end, I didn't really care that not many had heard of it. the skills I developed last my lifetime and have been far more important than any kudos for the award. this is what gets lost in the discussion.. why get the award? is it for having a shiny badge or for your personal development? my daughters got their silver awards and put them on their resume. did it help? who knows. they got skills and learned a lot doing their project. 10 yrs later, it is really a non issue.
my dh always says to my son, the eagle scout. if you murder someone, the paper will mention that you were an eagle scout. btw, the gold award, to me, is harder than an eagle award.
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