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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 13:55:08 GMT
Dems MAKE calls. RUpublicans buy calls. "The Republican National Committee paid to generate thousands of calls to the congressional offices of nearly three dozen House Democrats in recent weeks, an effort that was aimed at both shaping opinion around the impeachment inquiry and tying up the phone lines of the elected officials, according to two people briefed on the effort. The calls were part of a broader effort by Republicans to influence public opinion around the investigation into President Trump. The Trump campaign and the Republican committee have taken the lead on political messaging defending Mr. Trump at a moment of political vulnerability, using television and digital ads, as well as the phone calls. The fact that the calls to congressional offices, estimated to number 11,000, were partly intended to jam the phone lines of House Democrats — potentially thwarting access to government offices — was described at a recent dinner of more than a dozen Republican aides, advisers and elected officials, known as the “Off the Record” dinner. Officials with the Republican National Committee told others at the dinner about the calls, suggesting they were automated and indicating that the aim was to tie up the phones in Democratic offices, according to two people briefed on what was said." Buying their way out of any situation. GOP 101. It's not about people, it about greed and power that their bloated billions allow them to wield. www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/us/politics/impeachment-republican-national-committee.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 13:57:07 GMT
Gee, I wonder why the GOP hates education.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 14:03:43 GMT
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Post by kmcginn on Nov 5, 2019 14:51:42 GMT
It occurred to me that Eisenburg "hiding" the transcript of the Ukraine call on a secret server is analogous to the Nixon clan wiping the some minutes off the Watergate Tapes. That's what sunk Nixon.
Seems like this should be treated the same way. It's a coverup!
One can only hope that will sink the Trump team as well!
Hey a girl can wish, can't she!!
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Post by Merge on Nov 5, 2019 16:12:28 GMT
But ... but ... a progressive can’t win! No one will vote for them! 🙄
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 5, 2019 16:52:36 GMT
Has anyone asked the ones who don't vote what would motivate them to do so? How do you know that they aren't moderates who don't feel compelled to either side so they don't bother?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 17:22:12 GMT
Moderate here. Thanks for the insult. What a way to start the day by being insulted here and on a thread I started no less. But I want to thank you as well. I pounded out a couple of replies to the insult. One really wasn’t very nice , but in the end I deleted them. Earlier this morning, before I read the insult here, I was checking Twitter for the latest in the news and realized how weary I get reading all the shit surrounding trump And how it just never ends and at the same taken how frustrated I get when I see what I truly believe is the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot if they continue to go down the path Warren & Sanders are building on false promises. So I thought maybe I should step away for awhile, join millions of other Americans and stick my head in the sand and ignore what is happening. Stepping away would mean stepping away from here as well. But I didn’t and the first thing I read is I’m being insulted because I’m , like millions of other Democrats, a moderate. And by a another member, I assume, of the Democratic Party. Based on the response to the insult I deleted, I think I will take a break. I hope this thread continues, if not, I’ll start it up when I come back. Once I post this, I really will have to take a break. 😀
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 5, 2019 17:28:37 GMT
Moderate here. Thanks for the insult. What a way to start the day by being insulted here and on a thread I started no less. But I want to thank you as well. I pounded out a couple of replies to the insult. One really wasn’t very nice , but in the end I deleted them. Earlier this morning, before I read the insult here, I was checking Twitter for the latest in the news and realized how weary I get reading all the shit surrounding trump And how it just never ends and at the same taken how frustrated I get when I see what I truly believe is the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot if they continue to go down the path Warren & Sanders are building on false promises. So I thought maybe I should step away for awhile, join millions of other Americans and stick my head in the sand and ignore what is happening. Stepping away would mean stepping away from here as well. But I didn’t and the first thing I read is I’m being insulted because I’m , like millions of other Democrats, a moderate. And by a another member, I assume, of the Democratic Party. Based on the response to the insult I deleted, I think I will take a break. I hope this thread continues, if not, I’ll start it up when I come back. Once I post this, I really will have to take a break. 😀 I have to agree. The tone of some of the posters here--towards other Democrats--has really changed in the last 6 months or so. It is a turn off for me and making me want to lash out as well as become more dug in regarding supporting progressive candidates. I have always been one that said that Democrats shouldn't have to change their values in order to lure voters. However, turning people away isn't the answer, either.
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Post by lucyg on Nov 5, 2019 17:51:14 GMT
Or, as some of us prefer to think of it ... if the “progressives” would stop indulging themselves by refusing to vote for a perfectly well-qualified woman candidate and thereby helping to elect a crazed right-wing monster to the presidency, what a difference that would have made. And you can say it all you like, but the vast majority of moderate Democrats are nothing resembling “watered-down GOP trickle-down.” Moreover, the majority of the party is not required to vote the way the minority prefers. Sorry we don’t meet your standards.
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,355
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Nov 5, 2019 18:32:31 GMT
Moderate here. Thanks for the insult. What a way to start the day by being insulted here and on a thread I started no less. But I want to thank you as well. I pounded out a couple of replies to the insult. One really wasn’t very nice , but in the end I deleted them. Earlier this morning, before I read the insult here, I was checking Twitter for the latest in the news and realized how weary I get reading all the shit surrounding trump And how it just never ends and at the same taken how frustrated I get when I see what I truly believe is the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot if they continue to go down the path Warren & Sanders are building on false promises. So I thought maybe I should step away for awhile, join millions of other Americans and stick my head in the sand and ignore what is happening. Stepping away would mean stepping away from here as well. But I didn’t and the first thing I read is I’m being insulted because I’m , like millions of other Democrats, a moderate. And by a another member, I assume, of the Democratic Party. Based on the response to the insult I deleted, I think I will take a break. I hope this thread continues, if not, I’ll start it up when I come back. Once I post this, I really will have to take a break. 😀 I never post anything of substance on these threads, it is mostly trump snark. I want to tell you how much I appreciate your posting and keeping these threads going. What I see happening is frustration all around. We are absolutely bombarded with "all things trump". If you need to take a break, just know that you will be missed. You are appreciated.
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Post by kmcginn on Nov 5, 2019 18:54:00 GMT
I totally agree, fred. I understand how you feel but I'm sorry to see you go. I personally love that you keep me informed and up-to-date on all things political. Please enjoy your break, and I hope you don't stay away too long!
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Post by withapea on Nov 5, 2019 19:10:14 GMT
Democrats have a big tent party, it's good but it also makes things harder for them ( and us ). The negativity is certainly not one sided. I'm going to push and vote for the most progressive person I'm able to because that's what I truly believe in. I feel it's in the best interest of the party and country to run a progressive. Not everyone agrees with me. ( I don’t enjoy the condescension, being told I’m delusional, pie-in-the-sky, greedy, ignorant etc. by other liberals, so we’re all in good company in feeling slighted. )
None of us in this political climate have any idea what "reality" is or what will work because this situation we're in isn't like any other in history. On top of that, we’re on the short end of the stick for a multitude of reasons: the electoral college, gerrymandering, voter suppression, lack of election security , the media, social media .... on and on ( not to mention the criminal president and his criminal lackeys enabling him at every turn ).
I’ve been voting for people who are not my ideal candidate since I started voting. There are no perfect candidates. Primaries are for fighting it out, it’s what happens, every cycle. Regardless, when it comes down to it, we all have more in common with each other than we do with the GOP. I think we all want to oust the current resident of The White House. I'm going to vote for whomever is on the D ticket.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 5, 2019 19:22:38 GMT
MSNBC Sondland confirmed Ukraine quid pro quo in testimony. Sondland now remembers delivering quid pro quo message to Zelensky aide. He eventually became aware the that the military aid was dependent on the Biden investigation. ** A top diplomat appointed by President Trump revised his testimony to lawmakers in the House's impeachment inquiry, saying in the latest version that the president’s dealings with Ukraine amounted to a clear quid pro quo.U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland said Trump withheld U.S. military aid to Ukraine in an effort to secure investigations into the 2016 election and the president’s political adversaries, according to a transcript released Tuesday by Democrats conducting the impeachment investigation. ** In the revision, Sondland said he recalled a Sept. 1 meeting with Andriy Yermak, a top aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which the aid was contingent on a public statement from Zelensky regarding launching probes that would benefit Trump politically. “After a large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks,” Sondland said.** thehill.com/homenews/house/469064-sondland-trumps-appointee-changes-testimony-and-says-there-was-clear-quid-pro
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 19:33:49 GMT
I totally agree, fred. I understand how you feel but I'm sorry to see you go. I personally love that you keep me informed and up-to-date on all things political. Please enjoy your break, and I hope you don't stay away too long! I agree with this as well. You are a valuable member here Fred. Do what you need to do to recharge and get back in the fight!!!!
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,333
Member is Online
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Nov 5, 2019 19:48:33 GMT
MSNBC Sondland confirmed Ukraine quid pro quo in testimony. Sondland now remembers delivering quid pro quo message to Zelensky aide. He eventually became aware the that the military aid was dependent on the Biden investigation. ** A top diplomat appointed by President Trump revised his testimony to lawmakers in the House's impeachment inquiry, saying in the latest version that the president’s dealings with Ukraine amounted to a clear quid pro quo.U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland said Trump withheld U.S. military aid to Ukraine in an effort to secure investigations into the 2016 election and the president’s political adversaries, according to a transcript released Tuesday by Democrats conducting the impeachment investigation. ** In the revision, Sondland said he recalled a Sept. 1 meeting with Andriy Yermak, a top aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which the aid was contingent on a public statement from Zelensky regarding launching probes that would benefit Trump politically. “After a large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks,” Sondland said.** thehill.com/homenews/house/469064-sondland-trumps-appointee-changes-testimony-and-says-there-was-clear-quid-pro
Funny how the thought of federal prison will jog a persons memory.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 5, 2019 19:59:57 GMT
Funny how the thought of federal prison will jog a persons memory. yeah, lol! funny how that works, isn't it?!? Memory... it's a funny thing, isn't it? He now 'remembers' something that he didn't before, huh? like HE, HIMSELF SPEAKING WITH SOMEONE on the topic at hand?!?!? And that they had been discussing it FOR WEEKS?!? really, Sondland?!?!? You 'remember' now?? Maybe he needs medical assistance, if his memory is THAT impaired... I think he should still be held liable- in some fashion- for the fact that he LIED during his initial Committee testimony. Or does he get a pass now that he 'remembered' and actually told the truth?
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,333
Member is Online
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Post by amom23 on Nov 5, 2019 20:03:13 GMT
Funny how the thought of federal prison will jog a persons memory. yeah, lol! funny how that works, isn't it?!? Memory... it's a funny thing, isn't it? He now 'remembers' something that he didn't before, huh? like HE, HIMSELF SPEAKING WITH SOMEONE on the topic at hand?!?!? And that they had been discussing it FOR WEEKS?!? really, Sondland?!?!? You 'remember' now?? Maybe he needs medical assistance, if his memory is THAT impaired... I think he should still be held liable- in some fashion- for the fact that he LIED during his initial Committee testimony. Or does he get a pass now that he 'remembered' and actually told the truth?
Oh just wait until Trump and the rest of them get ahold of Sondland for actually being a truth teller. We all know how Trump feels about loyalty.
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Post by kmcginn on Nov 5, 2019 20:35:18 GMT
Trump will say that Shifty Adam Shift changed his deposition.
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Post by Merge on Nov 5, 2019 21:09:40 GMT
Ahem. If anyone goes back and actually reads Zingermack’s post, she was talking about moderate politicians, not moderate posters here. No one was insulting anyone here.
I know that there have been some ruffled feathers here and I own my part in that. I’ve felt “ruffled” at times, too. But I’d like to think that we as a group are able to handle robust disagreement with better grace than some other folks we’ve known. As others have pointed out, we are a big tent party. We are not Borg and we’re going to disagree. At the end of all this, however, it’s my sincere hope that we’ll all band together behind the nominee, whoever he or she may be.
One of the things I liked best about Beto’s campaign was his ability to disagree with people - even quite firmly - and still thank them for the ideas they brought to the discussion. And so I want to thank all the moderates and whoever else disagrees with me for continuing to discuss. I think we as a party are better because we don’t usually demand ideological purity.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 5, 2019 21:11:48 GMT
You 'remember' now?? Maybe he needs medical assistance, if his memory is THAT impaired... I think he should still be held liable- in some fashion- for the fact that he LIED during his initial Committee testimony. Or does he get a pass now that he 'remembered' and actually told the truth? Has he really told the whole truth as of today? Maybe not! He may remember more. To lie once makes it easier to lie again!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 21:44:10 GMT
Ahem. If anyone goes back and actually reads Zingermack’s post, she was talking about moderate politicians, not moderate posters here. No one was insulting anyone here. I know that there have been some ruffled feathers here and I own my part in that. I’ve felt “ruffled” at times, too. But I’d like to think that we as a group are able to handle robust disagreement with better grace than some other folks we’ve known. As others have pointed out, we are a big tent party. We are not Borg and we’re going to disagree. At the end of all this, however, it’s my sincere hope that we’ll all band together behind the nominee, whoever he or she may be. One of the things I liked best about Beto’s campaign was his ability to disagree with people - even quite firmly - and still thank them for the ideas they brought to the discussion. And so I want to thank all the moderates and whoever else disagrees with me for continuing to discuss. I think we as a party are better because we don’t usually demand ideological purity. Thanks for the shout out, Merge . I was actually speaking about 'moderate' voters (as in, 'moderate' in name only -- that's why I used the quotes). Interesting to me that people here took it as a personal insult. I wasn't actually thinking of ANYONE here as most of the moderates here ARE fairly moderate, vs. trickle-downers in 'moderates' clothing. But perhaps it's good for people to consider why they took a swipe leveled at trickle-downers as a personal affront. Also worth considering that extreme wealth and income inequality has galloped ahead over the last 3 decades, even when 'moderates' like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were in power. 'Moderate' is often just a euphemism for being unwilling to support meaningful challenges to existing structures that produce and sustain inequality.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 5, 2019 21:57:07 GMT
Interesting podcast today on The Daily. Looked at who is electable vs trump.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 5, 2019 21:58:31 GMT
Trump will say that Shifty Adam Shift changed his deposition. Or that the DRMs threatened or bribed them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 21:59:22 GMT
I totally agree, fred. I understand how you feel but I'm sorry to see you go. I personally love that you keep me informed and up-to-date on all things political. Please enjoy your break, and I hope you don't stay away too long! I agree. @fred, I appreciate the time and effort you put into these threads. I go right to them to quickly scan updates, but if you need a break, then take it. Whatever is best for you. We all get burned out by the politics and also by some not-too-nice people. I'm sorry.
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Post by dewryce on Nov 5, 2019 22:00:16 GMT
What I think is so great about Sondland now admitting there was quid pro quo, is that Lindsay Graham who iniially said
And now that quid pro quo has been established by multiple sources, is throwing a fit...taking his toys and refusing to play.
Convenient. Surely someone who will basically serve as part of the jury during the Senate Impeachment Trial needs to read the evidence? Apparently, not if the evidence will hurt your side.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 5, 2019 22:13:15 GMT
Ahem. If anyone goes back and actually reads Zingermack’s post, she was talking about moderate politicians, not moderate posters here. No one was insulting anyone here. I know that there have been some ruffled feathers here and I own my part in that. I’ve felt “ruffled” at times, too. But I’d like to think that we as a group are able to handle robust disagreement with better grace than some other folks we’ve known. As others have pointed out, we are a big tent party. We are not Borg and we’re going to disagree. At the end of all this, however, it’s my sincere hope that we’ll all band together behind the nominee, whoever he or she may be. One of the things I liked best about Beto’s campaign was his ability to disagree with people - even quite firmly - and still thank them for the ideas they brought to the discussion. And so I want to thank all the moderates and whoever else disagrees with me for continuing to discuss. I think we as a party are better because we don’t usually demand ideological purity. That is not how I read it at all, and not what the tone of her posts for quite awhile have suggested. She says in her post below that she was referring to moderate voters--which many of us here are. I agree that we all need to be respectful of each others opinions and ideas, and I will be careful to not be triggered by comments like hers. However, I was pointing out that the change in tone once the primary season got underway has been noticeable to me, and rather than feeling like we are all in one big tent like I did before, I feel that we are all in separate tents now. I do not believe that I have said derogatory things about progressive voters, or the politicians themselves other than they aren't my first choice, but rather their ideas being too lofty ("pie in the sky") or that IMO that is not what we need to get Trump out of office. In general, I hate when politicians from the same party talk poorly about the other candidates. I get that they need to set themselves apart, but it rubs me the wrong way since in the end we want to feel that we are voting for someone not voting against the other person. So maybe I am more sensitive to comments from non-politicians as well.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 5, 2019 22:14:17 GMT
And now that quid pro quo has been established by multiple sources, is throwing a fit...taking his toys and refusing to play. Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said that he will not read any of the transcripts released Tuesday by the House committees conducting the impeachment inquiry, telling CBS News: '"I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S." Convenient. Surely someone who will basically serve as part of the jury during the Senate Impeachment Trial needs to read the evidence? Apparently, not if the evidence will hurt your side.Nope. Plausible deniability, right? If I don't actually READ it, I don't have to actually process how bad it might be. Kinda like a little kid who covers up their face and says 'I can't see you, so you can't see me' lol. The latest I've heard is that the Republicans are now going to go with the defense of: 'well, yeah, okay- he did it-- but it's not really bad enough conduct to actually REMOVE him from office...'
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Post by Merge on Nov 5, 2019 22:23:08 GMT
Ahem. If anyone goes back and actually reads Zingermack’s post, she was talking about moderate politicians, not moderate posters here. No one was insulting anyone here. I know that there have been some ruffled feathers here and I own my part in that. I’ve felt “ruffled” at times, too. But I’d like to think that we as a group are able to handle robust disagreement with better grace than some other folks we’ve known. As others have pointed out, we are a big tent party. We are not Borg and we’re going to disagree. At the end of all this, however, it’s my sincere hope that we’ll all band together behind the nominee, whoever he or she may be. One of the things I liked best about Beto’s campaign was his ability to disagree with people - even quite firmly - and still thank them for the ideas they brought to the discussion. And so I want to thank all the moderates and whoever else disagrees with me for continuing to discuss. I think we as a party are better because we don’t usually demand ideological purity. That is not how I read it at all, and not what the tone of her posts for quite awhile have suggested. She says in her post below that she was referring to moderate voters--which many of us here are. I agree that we all need to be respectful of each others opinions and ideas, and I will be careful to not be triggered by comments like hers. However, I was pointing out that the change in tone once the primary season got underway has been noticeable to me, and rather than feeling like we are all in one big tent like I did before, I feel that we are all in separate tents now. I do not believe that I have said derogatory things about progressive voters, or the politicians themselves other than they aren't my first choice, but rather their ideas being too lofty ("pie in the sky") or that IMO that is not what we need to get Trump out of office. In general, I hate when politicians from the same party talk poorly about the other candidates. I get that they need to set themselves apart, but it rubs me the wrong way since in the end we want to feel that we are voting for someone not voting against the other person. So maybe I am more sensitive to comments from non-politicians as well. Well, I guess I misunderstood her intent. My bad. I do get very tired of the “pie in the sky” comments and some others which feel very condescending and dismissive to me. But whatever. People say crap here that makes me mad all the time and that’s just how it is. I’m not a grudge holder so I just move on.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 5, 2019 22:30:23 GMT
That is not how I read it at all, and not what the tone of her posts for quite awhile have suggested. She says in her post below that she was referring to moderate voters--which many of us here are. I agree that we all need to be respectful of each others opinions and ideas, and I will be careful to not be triggered by comments like hers. However, I was pointing out that the change in tone once the primary season got underway has been noticeable to me, and rather than feeling like we are all in one big tent like I did before, I feel that we are all in separate tents now. I do not believe that I have said derogatory things about progressive voters, or the politicians themselves other than they aren't my first choice, but rather their ideas being too lofty ("pie in the sky") or that IMO that is not what we need to get Trump out of office. In general, I hate when politicians from the same party talk poorly about the other candidates. I get that they need to set themselves apart, but it rubs me the wrong way since in the end we want to feel that we are voting for someone not voting against the other person. So maybe I am more sensitive to comments from non-politicians as well. Well, I guess I misunderstood her intent. My bad. I do get very tired of the “pie in the sky” comments and some others which feel very condescending and dismissive to me. But whatever. People say crap here that makes me mad all the time and that’s just how it is. I’m not a grudge holder so I just move on. I typically don’t even pay attention to who says what, but the change in tone is something I have noticed for some time. I don’t see “Pie in the sky” as being a derogatory term. To me it means something that seems like a really lofty goal or idea. But maybe I don’t use the term correctly.
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Post by dewryce on Nov 5, 2019 22:51:10 GMT
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