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Post by refugeepea on Apr 5, 2019 0:16:32 GMT
On a happy note, BYU students are protesting the honor code. They have an anonymous instagram account where people report their experiences. It's heart warming to see students go on camera and not be afraid.
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Post by lucyg on Apr 5, 2019 0:31:00 GMT
On a happy note, BYU students are protesting the honor code. They have an anonymous instagram account where people report their experiences. It's heart warming to see students go on camera and not be afraid. I don’t know what the honor code is. Like promising not to drink, smoke, have sex, etc.? |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 5, 2019 0:34:36 GMT
It is interesting to me that people would just accept this kind of “ban” for no real reason.
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 5, 2019 0:40:09 GMT
I don’t know what the honor code is. Like promising not to drink, smoke, have sex, etc. Yes. So if a woman is raped, then they are questioned about what happened. If alcohol or drugs are involved, that woman can be suspended or expelled. If it was an acquaintance rape and consensual sex had happened with that person before, the woman would be punished as well. The BYU police force was actually taken away by the state of Utah. This is what I found in a quick google search. aazor.com/unitedstates/utah-moves-police-at-brigham-young-university-the-school-will-appeal/ |
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 5, 2019 0:42:28 GMT
It is interesting to me that people would just accept this kind of “ban” for no real reason. It's really no different than other religions. Don't eat shellfish, don't eat pork, only eat kosher, refrain from eating meat during certain times of the year, never eat meat (because of religious doctrine) cover yourselves with religious garments. None of that makes sense. It's been happening for thousands of years. You either choose to have faith and believe there's a reason or you don't follow the practices. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 5, 2019 0:47:23 GMT
It is interesting to me that people would just accept this kind of “ban” for no real reason. It's really no different than other religions. Don't eat shellfish, don't eat pork, only eat kosher, refrain from eating meat during certain times of the year, never eat meat (because of religious doctrine) cover yourselves with religious garments. None of that makes sense. It's been happening for thousands of years. You either choose to have faith and believe there's a reason or you don't follow the practices. I don’t understand it for any of the religions. But it is easier to say, “who knows why that rule was made thousands of years ago” as opposed to something that is fairly new and seems arbitrary, when nobody can tell you why the rule is there. Is this something that god supposedly said? Or did the church leaders create this rule to make sure that people were falling in line? That is what I would ask about any of the “rules” that don’t make sense. |
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Post by lucyg on Apr 5, 2019 0:49:10 GMT
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 5, 2019 0:55:47 GMT
Is this something that god supposedly said? Or did the church leaders create this rule to make sure that people were falling in line? That is what I would ask about any of the “rules” that don’t make sense. It comes down to revelation with the Mormon church. They believe modern day prophets have the ability to have God speak directly to them. The word of wisdom started with Joseph Smith. What doesn't make sense in the early 1830's will make sense years later except when it does not. Too many "revelations" to list on that topic. I found this from a blog that basically summarizes what I was taught as a child teachldschildren.com/tag/joseph-smith/ |
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 5, 2019 1:10:27 GMT
There are a lot of things people follow because someone arbitrarily said it was healthy, even without the religious/faith aspect. Look at the various diet fads that are continually debunked. (No eggs. Only egg whites. Just kidding, whole eggs.)
As far as today’s announcement... it’s obvious that the fallout from the previous policy - wait, revelation - wait, policy was substantial. It’s too little, too late in my opinion.
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 5, 2019 1:19:46 GMT
As far as today’s announcement... it’s obvious that the fallout from the previous policy - wait, revelation - wait, policy was substantial. It’s too little, too late in my opinion. I got unbelievably emotional when the policy outed. I personally don't have anyone close to me like you do but it was heartbreaking. There was no mental shelf big enough to rationalize ostracizing children who did no "sinning" of their own and were being punished for their parents "transgressions". It went against the effing Articles of Faith. |
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Apr 5, 2019 1:42:13 GMT
“Revelation” in the Mormon church these latter-days usually comes about after marketing surveys, focus groups, and lots of bad press.
I won’t be surprised if the WoW is changed, and I’m not surprised they backtracked on the November Policy. They are hemorrhaging members, especially the younger generations now who won’t tolerate the bigotry and many of the arbitrary rules. It’s already a completely different church from the one I was raised in, which I still have some fond memories of from my youth.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 3:39:18 GMT
God walked back his 2015 LDS revelation that the children of same-sex marriages can't be baptized until they're adults and only then if they renounce their parents.
You'd think God would have maybe seen this coming, with the all-knowing and stuff.
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Apr 5, 2019 3:53:07 GMT
God walked back his 2015 LDS revelation that the children of same-sex marriages can't be baptized until they're adults and only then if they renounce their parents. You'd think God would have maybe seen this coming, with the all-knowing and stuff. It’s like the Mormon leaders are just... making stuff up or something, based on their own ignorance and bigotry. Either that or their god sure likes playing cruel games with his children. Seriously though, how many people were harmed by this “revelation”, how many families? I know me and my own LGBTQ children are definitely looked down upon by my LDS family. This policy just reinforced their belief that their disdain was justified by their god. I wonder what kind of apologetics they’ll come up with now? |
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pyccku
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Post by pyccku on Apr 5, 2019 12:16:13 GMT
I wonder what kind of apologetics they’ll come up with now? God saw the tithing income decreasing and young people leaving the church, which was confirmed by focus group and marketing studies. So he realized that the world "wasn't ready" for the harsh law yet, so he's willing to overlook it for a while. Kind of like the whole polygamy thing. And probably the black people thing. |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 12:28:15 GMT
I wonder what kind of apologetics they’ll come up with now? God saw the tithing income decreasing and young people leaving the church, which was confirmed by focus group and marketing studies. So he realized that the world "wasn't ready" for the harsh law yet, so he's willing to overlook it for a while. Kind of like the whole polygamy thing. And probably the black people thing. just curious: What is "the black people thing"... |
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pyccku
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Post by pyccku on Apr 5, 2019 12:36:33 GMT
The policy that said that black people had been rebellious in the pre-existence, therefore weren't worthy of the priesthood. They also believed that dark skin was the curse of Cain, so obviously black people weren't as good as whites. In 1978, God decided he was OK with black people and they were then allowed to hold the priesthood and participate in temple ordinances. After 1978, not only was God ok with black people, He also decided it was time for the church to start marketing itself in countries with mostly black populations. Brigham Young taught that it was a "true eternal principle the Lord Almighty has ordained" but God realized He was wrong, LOL.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 12:37:46 GMT
God saw the tithing income decreasing and young people leaving the church, which was confirmed by focus group and marketing studies. So he realized that the world "wasn't ready" for the harsh law yet, so he's willing to overlook it for a while. Kind of like the whole polygamy thing. And probably the black people thing. just curious: What is "the black people thing"... From 1849 to 1978, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) prohibited anyone with black ancestry from being ordained to the priesthood. In 1978, the church's First Presidency declared in a statement known as "Official Declaration 2" that the ban had been lifted. Before 1849, a few black men had been ordained to the priesthood under Joseph Smith. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormon_priesthood |
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Post by wholarmor on Apr 5, 2019 12:38:20 GMT
Funny thing is that the new "Revelation" caused more people to turn in their resignations. Not because it's a bad thing to let those previously rejected kids be baptized now, but just that it's too little, too late. The harm has been done. People have committed suicide. The policy gave people even more reason to draw the line in the sand against gay family members. And now they are telling them that it's no longer "apostasy" to get married as a gay person, but it is still a very serious sin.
Oh, and if you haven't heard of the "honorcodestories" Instagram account, you should check it out. Terrible stories of people getting ratted out like Mormon Gestapo.
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ashley
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Post by ashley on Apr 5, 2019 12:53:12 GMT
Oh, and if you haven't heard of the "honorcodestories" Instagram account, you should check it out. Terrible stories of people getting ratted out like Mormon Gestapo. Wow, that school seems to have perfected the act of victim-blaming! |
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Apr 5, 2019 15:01:01 GMT
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Post by Merge on Apr 5, 2019 15:09:55 GMT
Are they still baptizing dead Holocaust victims and dead people of other faiths? If so, these changes are pretty pointless.
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 5, 2019 15:16:23 GMT
Are they still baptizing dead Holocaust victims and dead people of other faiths? If so, these changes are pretty pointless. Probably. ETA: the system is set up to take names that people submit, so as long as individual members are still submitting those names, it’s probably happening. The church hasn’t taken steps to ensure it doesn’t happen, but will remove those that are brought to its attention. (Having said that, the church has billions of dollars at its disposal. They certainly could come up with a more efficient system, but have chosen not to. Sort of an “ask forgiveness, not permission” type of thing.) |
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 5, 2019 15:19:57 GMT
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 15:21:03 GMT
Maybe this is why there are so few Mormons in the south.
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oh yvonne
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Post by oh yvonne on Apr 5, 2019 15:33:07 GMT
Mormons aren’t the only religion that abstains from something. I don’t think it’s that uncommon... I agree. The problem with Mormonism is that it's a fairly "new" religion. It hasn't grown enough for some of it's more "odd" beliefs to be respected or accepted. Other religions don't eat pork, shellfish, eat kosher. None of that makes sense either, but it's been around for thousands of years. OmG that is such a good point! People mock the Mormons a lot and I find it so mean. I'm not Mormon but I known plenty and I have a lot of respect for their faithfulness and good works. The Missionaries especially. Always there to help. I know someone who lost his home recently and he was in such denial, he waited until the Sheriff put the sign on his door and gave him 3 days to leave. He had a whole 5 bedroom house and not a box packed. The neighbor was Mormon and called over the local Missionaries and those guys came and packed for those three days. Efficiently, without complaint and got it done. I told my friend he'd better make a nice donation to that church for the help. It was unreal, to see that nowadays. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 5, 2019 17:46:26 GMT
I have a friend who is LDS and her family does not drink anything with caffeine (soda, coffee, tea, etc.) or consume alcohol. I assumed the "hot drinks" ban really meant a caffeine ban? Maybe I'm wrong. I have LDS family who won't consume caffeine, either. I had no idea it was under a "hot drinks" umbrella. It is confusing to say the least. I believe you can find this in Chapter 3 in the Art of Manipulation.  What is the reasoning behind the hot drink ban? So no wives get burned when they all rush at the same time to get the man his drink.  |
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 5, 2019 18:06:52 GMT
I don't understand it. Do they think the hot beverage or caffeine will make people do unholy acts??? Mormons aren’t the only religion that abstains from something. I don’t think it’s that uncommon... That's very true. There's usually a very good reason why that dates back thousands of years. But even without a good reason, those rules tend to remain consistent. No pork includes bacon and ham. No shellfish includes shrimp. People who eat those items and believe in those food bans know they are violating their own bans. But this? You can't have "hot drinks" but you can have some hot drinks. You can't have caffeine but you can have caffeine. There's just no consistency and the rules change often enough to have obscured any original meaning. If the leaders openly stated that they are asking people to abstain from a particular food or drink in recognition of their faith to God, then it really doesn't matter what that item is and it can change over time. They are communally giving up "something" as a tribute. If that is the intention of LDS leadership, that "something" is given up in tribute, they should just state that in simple language. "This presidency, we are abstaining from pickles to help us remember that God is always true." "This presidency, we are abstaining from coffee in all it's forms." "This presidency, we are abstaining from caffeine. Non-caffeine coffee, soda or tea are fine." At least that is a pattern that makes sense. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 5, 2019 18:23:46 GMT
Other religions don't eat pork, shellfish, eat kosher. None of that makes sense either, but it's been around for thousands of years. Originally, I believe that many of these food bans were for general health. Pigs eat garbage. Pork infected with trichinella spiralis that isn't thoroughly cooked will give you worms when eaten. Shellfish are "bottom feeders." They are prone to bacteria which can make you ill if they are eaten raw. There are also quite a few people who are allergic to shellfish, so it's a possibility that shellfish made too many people within their small communities ill. What both of those groups have in common are the foods that these creatures eat. They aren't "pure." |
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Apr 5, 2019 18:47:36 GMT
I’m just wondering why gay parents would want to baptize their children into this particular religion, doesn’t seem very accepting.
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 5, 2019 22:33:20 GMT
I told my friend he'd better make a nice donation to that church for the help. It was unreal, to see that nowadays. Even when I was faithful LDS, my answer would be the same as now. It is not necessary to make any kind of donation.
I’m just wondering why gay parents would want to baptize their children into this particular religion, doesn’t seem very accepting. A lot of LDS members deny their homosexuality. They try to live the commandments, marry in the temple, have a family, and find they've done everything they can and it didn't work. They can no longer live a lie. So there's a divorce and if one spouse remains faithful LDS, those kids would have been punished under the old guidelines. |
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