Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,836 
Location: Kentucky
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Post by Kerri W on May 16, 2022 16:32:15 GMT
Yes, they’ve tested positive for salmonella and cronobacter. Not sure if they’ve tested positive for others. I have several family members who work at this plant. Perhaps the OP meant the shutdown was because of reports of illness linked to the salmonella and cronobacter? I have also heard the shortage is not *because* of Abbott, though it’s easy to see how it could have been worsened by the situation at Abbott. I thought the bacteria found wasn’t on the production line and that they were not the same strain as what was found in the children. It was a different strain. They never found it in any samples of formula they tested either. If so then where did it come from? My point was the initial reports were that the illness and death were linked to what was found at Abbott. They did in fact find salmonella and cronobacter at the Sturgis plant. I did not specifically ask what areas. Abbott denies those findings were linked to the deaths of those infants. I found this quote from a local media source interesting: Abbott also tweeted that “genetic sequencing on the two available samples from ill infants did not match strains of Cronobacter in our plant. Samples from ill infants did not match each other, meaning there was no connection between the two cases.” And, “in all four cases, the state, FDA, and/or CDC tested samples of the Abbott formula that was used by the child. In all four cases, all unopened containers tested negative.” It also states the FDA had 483 "observations" about that plant. I need to read further-I'm curious what the FDA "observations" are. |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:31:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 19:26:15 GMT
Yes, they’ve tested positive for salmonella and cronobacter. Not sure if they’ve tested positive for others. I have several family members who work at this plant. Perhaps the OP meant the shutdown was because of reports of illness linked to the salmonella and cronobacter? I have also heard the shortage is not *because* of Abbott, though it’s easy to see how it could have been worsened by the situation at Abbott. and they aren’t seeing the shortages like we are. This has been going on since February and I think more should have been done to try and alleviate shortages. I find it hard to believe the plant is still shut down 3 months later. Obviously if there is a danger to babies yes but if what Abbott claims is true then it seems like sone thing else is going on. It takes time and it's a little more complicated than just buying it from other countries, especially for food. Each country has different food standards of safety. As an example, there are many food we would not import from the US because of the additives/ process etc and the required labelling. Labelling comes up when looking at formula. I found this article in the Atlantic explaining why there is a shortage. It's made up of three reasons. A. the Abbott safety. B. Consumer hoarding during the 2020 pandemic leading to less production in 2021 that hasn't been increased to take into account the demand in 2022. C. the import of formula. The import part reason is :- |
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Post by scraphappy0501 on May 16, 2022 20:02:14 GMT
Here's a link to the FDA 483 issued for the Abbott Sturgis, MI plant: Abbott Sturgis 483 Edited to Add: Sorry, the quote feature didn't work right for me there! |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 16, 2022 20:11:16 GMT
FYI, an FDA "483" report is only the FDA Form # the report is filed on. So how you say it in the industry is that your company received an "FDA 483" report. It does NOT mean there were 483 audit observations. (just in case someone was thinking "OMG!! there were that many problems??" I have no idea how many, or how severe, the Abbott issues were at that plant... but 483 is not the # of observations.) eta: just skimmed the 483 report: - there were multiple instances of Abbott and the FDA finding Cronobacter on surfaces they swabbed in/around the equipment and in the areas
- It sounds like there were issues with water leaks over a LONG period of time- water can cause microbial growth
- cleaning / drying of the equipment didn't have a step to verify that it actually WAS totally dry before they used it again for another batch
- people walked in/out of the areas and didn't sanitize their shoes properly (this violated their own in-house procedure)
- they didn't investigate complaints according to the procedure they had in place (they didn't test their retain sample to see if it was positive/negative for microbial growth)
basically it sounds like they were really sloppy with following the rules, both their own and the FDA's. |
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Post by workingclassdog on May 16, 2022 20:48:44 GMT
It's scary.. My DD is due in a month.. even though she is going to breastfeed (or at least try to) I told her if she saw any to start getting a backup. You never know. Just can't believe in this day and age we have to worry about feeding our babies.
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,836
Location: Kentucky
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Post by Kerri W on May 16, 2022 21:04:14 GMT
FYI, an FDA "483" report is only the FDA Form # the report is filed on. So how you say it in the industry is that your company received an "FDA 483" report. It does NOT mean there were 483 audit observations. (just in case someone was thinking "OMG!! there were that many problems??" I have no idea how many, or how severe, the Abbott issues were at that plant... but 483 is not the # of observations.) eta: just skimmed the 483 report: - there were multiple instances of Abbott and the FDA finding Cronobacter on surfaces they swabbed in/around the equipment and in the areas
- It sounds like there were issues with water leaks over a LONG period of time- water can cause microbial growth
- cleaning / drying of the equipment didn't have a step to verify that it actually WAS totally dry before they used it again for another batch
- people walked in/out of the areas and didn't sanitize their shoes properly (this violated their own in-house procedure)
- they didn't investigate complaints according to the procedure they had in place (they didn't test their retain sample to see if it was positive/negative for microbial growth)
basically it sounds like they were really sloppy with following the rules, both their own and the FDA's. Thank you so much for explaining that! |
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Post by sleepingbooty on May 17, 2022 20:56:37 GMT
An update for the Americans stuck with the formula shortage: Nestlé just announced the company is emergency exporting 2 types of hypoallergenic formula from Europe (Switzerland and the Netherlands) to the US by plane ( source in French). The two formulas are already being exported from the Netherlands and Switzerland for 2 US companies in normal times, Gerber Good Start Extensive HA and Alfamino but Nestlé is now proceeding to direct exports considering the state of the crisis. I'm not aware of the US brands of hypoallergenic formulas so please look back States-side whether either of these could work for the children around you in need. There should be articles popping up in the US press right about now. |
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Post by teddyw on May 17, 2022 21:32:43 GMT
It's scary.. My DD is due in a month.. even though she is going to breastfeed (or at least try to) I told her if she saw any to start getting a backup. You never know. Just can't believe in this day and age we have to worry about feeding our babies. The issues at the plant were for powder formula not the liquid ready to feed. If she can have some of that on hand it would be better. Ready to feed is also sterile I believe. It does expire quicker though so you have to watch that. |
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Post by Scrapper100 on May 17, 2022 22:28:40 GMT
It's scary.. My DD is due in a month.. even though she is going to breastfeed (or at least try to) I told her if she saw any to start getting a backup. You never know. Just can't believe in this day and age we have to worry about feeding our babies. The issues at the plant were for powder formula not the liquid ready to feed. If she can have some of that on hand it would be better. Ready to feed is also sterile I believe. It does expire quicker though so you have to watch that. It’s also a lot more expensive. My son could only drink this. The powdered version of the same thing made him sick. No idea why but there was a difference. If you could get it though it would be nice for peace of mind. We had no idea what kind he would need. I planned to breast feed and that didn’t work snd then he was allergic to most snd it took a while to figure out what he could tolerate. Got many samples from the dr and hospital. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on May 18, 2022 12:40:15 GMT
Even if they don’t have the brand that some need, this post may help someone else. I understand the frustration with not having the formula you need, but if this site/hack is legit then it doesn’t hurt to post it. I wish I understood this way of thinking. We're basically advocating taking from Canada to serve ourselves. They aren't our food pantry. Obviously this isn’t a good long term solution. But if you haven’t noticed, people are desperate to feed their children. At least one pea was jumping on the OP for posting this because it didn’t include the kind of formula her child needs. I was simply supporting the OP in her intentions for posting the thread. |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:31:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 12:48:51 GMT
I wish I understood this way of thinking. We're basically advocating taking from Canada to serve ourselves. They aren't our food pantry. Obviously this isn’t a good long term solution. But if you haven’t noticed, people are desperate to feed their children. At least one pea was jumping on the OP for posting this because it didn’t include the kind of formula her child needs. I was simply supporting the OP in her intentions for posting the thread. The formulas I listed are OTC. Including mine. NONE of those can be found on Amazon Canada. Several GI moms tried that "trick". It went no where. I am not down for handing out false hope to parents who are desperately trying to find the specific formula their child needs. I said false. She said FFS. You bet I am going to defend it being false because it is. 🙄 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 13:15:37 GMT
Obviously this isn’t a good long term solution. But if you haven’t noticed, people are desperate to feed their children. At least one pea was jumping on the OP for posting this because it didn’t include the kind of formula her child needs. I was simply supporting the OP in her intentions for posting the thread. The formulas I listed are OTC. Including mine. NONE of those can be found on Amazon Canada. Several GI moms tried that "trick". It went no where. I am not down for handing out false hope to parents who are desperately trying to find the specific formula their child needs. I said false. She said FFS. You bet I am going to defend it being false because it is. 🙄 But you didn't give her the benefit of the doubt though. She obviously didn't know that Amazon Canada would not send goods to the US as she didn't go through as far as the checkout. You could have explained that to her in the same way as someone later down the thread did in a respectful way rather than say " false" so bluntly. The post was a general one about baby formula. Something millions of babies have, not just special needs people. She was only trying to be helpful. |
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
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Post by kibblesandbits on May 18, 2022 14:40:53 GMT
The formulas I listed are OTC. Including mine. NONE of those can be found on Amazon Canada. Several GI moms tried that "trick". It went no where. I am not down for handing out false hope to parents who are desperately trying to find the specific formula their child needs. I said false. She said FFS. You bet I am going to defend it being false because it is. 🙄 But you didn't give her the benefit of the doubt though. She obviously didn't know that Amazon Canada would not send goods to the US as she didn't go through as far as the checkout. You could have explained that to her in the same way as someone later down the thread did in a respectful way rather than say " false" so bluntly. The post was a general one about baby formula. Something millions of babies have, not just special needs people. She was only trying to be helpful. What she DID was post something here that has been circulating on FB and Reddit for the last week without doing too much research. Even a cursory glance would have indicated that shortages are across the borders, and that doesn't even take into account the differences in formula concentrations. Let's leave aside the fact that the "hack" is encouraging depleting Canada's resources for the benefit of ourselves. |
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
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Post by kibblesandbits on May 18, 2022 14:42:18 GMT
I wish I understood this way of thinking. We're basically advocating taking from Canada to serve ourselves. They aren't our food pantry. Obviously this isn’t a good long term solution. But if you haven’t noticed, people are desperate to feed their children. At least one pea was jumping on the OP for posting this because it didn’t include the kind of formula her child needs. I was simply supporting the OP in her intentions for posting the thread. This isn't a solution at all. Even Canadians are desperate to feed their children. Maybe not the same "desperate" as the US, but . . . |
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Post by MichyM on May 18, 2022 15:00:36 GMT
But you didn't give her the benefit of the doubt though. She obviously didn't know that Amazon Canada would not send goods to the US as she didn't go through as far as the checkout. You could have explained that to her in the same way as someone later down the thread did in a respectful way rather than say " false" so bluntly. The post was a general one about baby formula. Something millions of babies have, not just special needs people. She was only trying to be helpful. What she DID was post something here that has been circulating on FB and Reddit for the last week without doing too much research. Even a cursory glance would have indicated that shortages are across the borders, and that doesn't even take into account the differences in formula concentrations. Let's leave aside the fact that the "hack" is encouraging depleting Canada's resources for the benefit of ourselves. I pretty much agree with this. It’s important that we differentiate between erroneous info and helpful info. While the OP clearly posted to be helpful, the info she posted isn’t. Yes, her post was met with passion by someone who is living this struggle on a daily basis, but I personally understand why that was. |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:31:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 15:02:04 GMT
The formulas I listed are OTC. Including mine. NONE of those can be found on Amazon Canada. Several GI moms tried that "trick". It went no where. I am not down for handing out false hope to parents who are desperately trying to find the specific formula their child needs. I said false. She said FFS. You bet I am going to defend it being false because it is. 🙄 But you didn't give her the benefit of the doubt though. She obviously didn't know that Amazon Canada would not send goods to the US as she didn't go through as far as the checkout. You could have explained that to her in the same way as someone later down the thread did in a respectful way rather than say " false" so bluntly. The post was a general one about baby formula. Something millions of babies have, not just special needs people. She was only trying to be helpful. What do you not understand? There is no benefit of the doubt when I AM GOING TROUGH THIS. Moms in my close knit GI group tried it. 1. Our for years were not available. 2. Different formulation/regulation. 3. If found it was expensive. 4. It is not another countries responsibility to cover our US issues. Don't believe me still? Here are some private sellers on Amazon Canada. See the cost PER CAN? See it? Those are about $30-50 per can in the US.  So you expect parents to just go oh well I am going to pay a lot more for 1 can that isn't even like our formula? I FINALLY found 8 cans. I paid $21 MORE PER CAN just to have it!!! |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:31:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 15:03:30 GMT
Oh and for shits and giggles a private seller on Amazon Canada has my son's version in infant for this cost. Normal? About $36-41 per can.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 15:05:28 GMT
Aannndddd a GI mom tried to buy said $120 can of Puramino and it was canceled.
If there are parents living this nightmare who tell you (general you) that the Amazon trick doesn't work and local pediatricians and specialist tell you to NOT feed any baby the homemade version, you may want to listen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 15:09:11 GMT
What she DID was post something here that has been circulating on FB and Reddit for the last week without doing too much research. Even a cursory glance would have indicated that shortages are across the borders, and that doesn't even take into account the differences in formula concentrations. Let's leave aside the fact that the "hack" is encouraging depleting Canada's resources for the benefit of ourselves. I pretty much agree with this. It’s important that we differentiate between erroneous info and helpful info. While the OP clearly posted to be helpful, the info she posted isn’t. Yes, her post was met with passion by someone who is living this struggle on a daily basis, but I personally understand why that was. Thank you. It is beyond d frustrating that people who are not living this personally think they know what it's like, or what is helpful or that me being pissed off at false hope being spread throughout social media is not okay. I have every right to be pissed. I am pissed that my son's only source of food is not regulated. I am pissed any parent can buy his specialized medical food I am pissed at price gouging. I just spent $21 more per can just to get his food. Can I afford that? No. But he needs to eat. I am pissed that yet again Abbott had issues at their plant. Not the first time. My son previously had formula with metal in it. I am pissed that there is only a few GI formulas for kids like my son and no regulation. So yeah. I am pissed. |
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Post by sean&marysmommy on May 18, 2022 20:22:51 GMT
What a sad, scary situation! How long does a can of formula last? I know it depends on how much each baby eats, but roughly?
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:31:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 20:28:09 GMT
What a sad, scary situation! How long does a can of formula last? I know it depends on how much each baby eats, but roughly? Ds goes through 1.25 to 1.5 cans a day. Right now due to heat and growth spurt, its about 1.5 cans a day. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 20:28:55 GMT
He gets more scoops per serving due to age.
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Post by Scrapper100 on May 18, 2022 20:31:37 GMT
What a sad, scary situation! How long does a can of formula last? I know it depends on how much each baby eats, but roughly? Ds goes through 1.25 to 1.5 cans a day. Right now due to heat and growth spurt, its about 1.5 cans a day. Oh my that’s a lot. I can’t imagine your frustration then. Really hoping that things ease up soon. I can’t imagine that stress. |
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,635
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Post by amom23 on May 18, 2022 20:43:50 GMT
I pretty much agree with this. It’s important that we differentiate between erroneous info and helpful info. While the OP clearly posted to be helpful, the info she posted isn’t. Yes, her post was met with passion by someone who is living this struggle on a daily basis, but I personally understand why that was. Thank you. It is beyond d frustrating that people who are not living this personally think they know what it's like, or what is helpful or that me being pissed off at false hope being spread throughout social media is not okay. I have every right to be pissed. I am pissed that my son's only source of food is not regulated. I am pissed any parent can buy his specialized medical food I am pissed at price gouging. I just spent $21 more per can just to get his food. Can I afford that? No. But he needs to eat. I am pissed that yet again Abbott had issues at their plant. Not the first time. My son previously had formula with metal in it. I am pissed that there is only a few GI formulas for kids like my son and no regulation. So yeah. I am pissed. Everyone here feels really bad for your situation. However it is unfair to lash out at peas who mean you no ill will. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 20:54:46 GMT
Yeah. So when someone posts false info and comes at me for stating as such, I am not going to sit back and smile.
Be in this situation and then you can choose how you take false facts being spread around social media.
Be in this situation and worry about how to feed your child while deadly recipes are shared.
More power to you if you wouldn't get upset.
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Post by padresfan619 on May 18, 2022 21:15:06 GMT
It is really easy to sit back and tell people how to act when you’re not in the position of worrying about how you’re going to feed your vulnerable child. The posts, hacks, dangerous recipes, and memes being posted across various social media platforms are not helpful. It reeks of “hey moron why didn’t you think of this?” When there are people doing absolutely everything they can to get their hands on the right formula. Even if the intent wasn’t there, when you’re desperate and have been dealing with this for months it comes off that way.
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Post by MichyM on May 18, 2022 21:20:30 GMT
Thank you. It is beyond d frustrating that people who are not living this personally think they know what it's like, or what is helpful or that me being pissed off at false hope being spread throughout social media is not okay. I have every right to be pissed. I am pissed that my son's only source of food is not regulated. I am pissed any parent can buy his specialized medical food I am pissed at price gouging. I just spent $21 more per can just to get his food. Can I afford that? No. But he needs to eat. I am pissed that yet again Abbott had issues at their plant. Not the first time. My son previously had formula with metal in it. I am pissed that there is only a few GI formulas for kids like my son and no regulation. So yeah. I am pissed. Everyone here feels really bad for your situation. However it is unfair to lash out at peas who mean you no ill will. I’m going to hand slap for your hand slapping. Imagine, I mean TRULY IMAGINE the very real possibility of not being able to feed your child. Then imagine that someone (who is nearly always excessively blunt on this forum) reposting incorrect info without doing any fact checking whatsoever. The same BS that is being shared all over the internet…. I, for one, am giving @sunnycamom all the grace she clearly deserves. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 18, 2022 21:20:34 GMT
The posts, hacks, dangerous recipes, and memes being posted across various social media platforms are not helpful. It reeks of “hey moron why didn’t you think of this?” When there are people doing absolutely everything they can to get their hands on the right formula. Even if the intent wasn’t there, when you’re desperate and have been dealing with this for months it comes off that way. especially the 'this is what they used to feed babies' recipes, etc. Infant mortality has gone down since those times, right? And formula has a lot of nutrients in it that (I'm assuming) Karo syrup and those other ingredients do NOT have, right? People don't think that the availability of specialized, vitamin-mineral-nutrient rich infant formulas have ANYthing to do with that, at all?? really?!? I have to assume that some people really just don't *THINK* before they post those types of things. (or our society's ability to do critical thinking in general has really gone down the toilet a lot worse than I thought.) |
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Post by Scrapper100 on May 18, 2022 21:35:28 GMT
The posts, hacks, dangerous recipes, and memes being posted across various social media platforms are not helpful. It reeks of “hey moron why didn’t you think of this?” When there are people doing absolutely everything they can to get their hands on the right formula. Even if the intent wasn’t there, when you’re desperate and have been dealing with this for months it comes off that way. especially the 'this is what they used to feed babies' recipes, etc. Infant mortality has gone down since those times, right? And formula has a lot of nutrients in it that (I'm assuming) Karo syrup and those other ingredients do NOT have, right? People don't think that the availability of specialized, vitamin-mineral-nutrient rich infant formulas have ANYthing to do with that, at all?? really?!? I have to assume that some people really just don't *THINK* before they post those types of things. (or our society's ability to do critical thinking in general has really gone down the toilet a lot worse than I thought.) I’m wondering how many people will actually follow what has been posted and then end up with a sick malnourished child? It’s everywhere online. |
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,635
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Post by amom23 on May 18, 2022 21:41:18 GMT
Everyone here feels really bad for your situation. However it is unfair to lash out at peas who mean you no ill will. I’m going to hand slap for your hand slapping. Imagine, I mean TRULY IMAGINE the very real possibility of not being able to feed your child. Then imagine that someone (who is nearly always excessively blunt on this forum) reposting incorrect info without doing any fact checking whatsoever. The same BS that is being shared all over the internet…. I, for one, am giving @sunnycamom all the grace she clearly deserves. I wasn't hand slapping. I do have a grandchild that my son and DIL are searching high and low for formula to feed. I'm not ignorant to what is happening out there in the world. And with that I'm out of this thread. |
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