Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 23:10:51 GMT
www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/legislators-in-ohio-and-pennsylvania-are-proposing-incredibly-restrictive-anti-abortion-legislation-919928/" In Pennsylvania, anti-choice legislators have passed a bill that would require burials or cremation for fetal remains from any time in a pregnancy after conception. The law currently requires burials or cremation for fetuses after 16 weeks of gestation, but the new law would apply to “expulsion or extraction from its mother of a product of conception, which shows no evidence of life after the expulsion or extraction,” meaning it could effectively apply to fertilized eggs that are not yet a fetus, including frozen fertilized eggs from IVF. The law would put the onus on medical providers to properly dispose of the remains, unless the mother states she will dispose of them on her own, or face fines ranging from $50-300 or up to 30 days in prison. But, like Ohio’s bill, it’s a somewhat absurd proposition when you look at the science. Most of the time, fertilized eggs do not implant and are passed without the person even knowing it’s happening. While the Pennsylvania bill does not state a death certificate is required for a fetus or un-implanted egg, Christine Castro, staff attorney at the Women’s Law Project in Pennsylvania, told Vice it implicitly does, saying, “The bill is written in a misleading way. No, it does not explicitly mandate a death certificate. [But] it explicitly mandates a burial permit, and you need a death certificate to obtain a burial permit.” Castro likened the bill to a Russian nesting doll, saying, “You have to keep unpacking it to see what’s really inside.” Those death certificates would then be filed in a state database." Given that God or nature (depending on your belief system) aborts as many as 50-80% of all "conceptions" and often the woman has no idea that a "baby" is present on her pad or tampon, what are women supposed to do to comply w/the law? If they get their period in a hospital or health care facility (doctor's office, etc.), are they supposed to have someone scope out the pad or tampon for a "baby", just in case? so they can pull a burial permit for it? OMFG.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,684
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Nov 30, 2019 23:17:09 GMT
While I would never wish a miscarriage on anyone, the people behind these proposed laws obviously have never experienced such a loss. If they had they would never propose something that would cause additional heartache to another human.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 23:31:28 GMT
And before someone starts spouting the sponsors "it's voluntary for the woman..." bs.... "The sponsor of the bill, Pennsylvania Rep. Francis Ryan, a Republican, maintains that the provisions in HB 1890 are “strictly voluntary for women” who want to be able to bury their own fetal remains, and don’t require a death certificate. But reproductive health advocates say those claims are misleading. They argue that the language of the bill is deliberately vague, obfuscating an extreme proposal: that providers and hospitals treat fertilized eggs as they would the remains of pregnancies that end in the second trimester.“The bill is written in a misleading way,” said Christine Castro, a staff attorney at the Pennsylvania-based Women’s Law Project. ”No, it does not explicitly mandate a death certificate. [But] it explicitly mandates a burial permit, and you need a death certificate to obtain a burial permit.” “HB1890 is like a Russian doll,” she continued. “You have to keep unpacking it to see what’s really inside.” To continue Castro’s metaphor, the smallest doll, nested within all of the others, might be the bill’s new definition of fetal death. Currently, Pennsylvania defines fetal death as the “expulsion or extraction” of a product of conception after 16 weeks' gestation. Ryan’s legislation, however, gets rid of the 16-week threshold, proposing that fetal death be any “expulsion or extraction from its mother of a product of conception, which shows no evidence of life after the expulsion or extraction.” The absence of any time marker, Castro said, means that the legal definition of “fetal death” would include fertilized eggs that don't implant if HB 1890 passed into law." www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xwyng/pennsylvania-fetal-burial-bill-death-certificates-for-miscarriage-abortion-fertilized-eggs-hb1890
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Nov 30, 2019 23:33:38 GMT
My sister had the (somewhat) sense of closure of being able to bury my stillborn nephew. I never had that same type of closure after any of my miscarriages.
This just adds mindblowing insult to already unbearable grief.
The people behind this law belong in the 9th Circle of Hell.
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Post by pierkiss on Nov 30, 2019 23:39:34 GMT
Yes. I’d love to have had a funeral for the bloody pad that captured my miscarriage I had at 6 weeks. Also, I for sure should have scooped my hand into the toilet and put those contents into a mason jar to bury them as well. Makes perfect sense. And is absolutely the logical thing I should have done.
WHAT FUCKING ASSHOLES ARE MAKING UP THESE SHITTY LAWS!?!?! This is completely insane!!!!
ETA: If you want to have a burial (or cremation) after your miscarriage I fully support you being able to make that decision. Saying goodbye in a formal manner can absolutely help with the healing process. But to mandate it, especially in such an extreme way is beyond the pale.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Nov 30, 2019 23:42:50 GMT
These people are hardly human.
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Post by lucyg on Nov 30, 2019 23:44:46 GMT
I can’t believe I live in the same country and share many cultural beliefs with these people. They are monsters.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 23:59:22 GMT
Yes. I’d love to have had a funeral for the bloody pad that captured my miscarriage I had at 6 weeks. Also, I for sure should have scooped my hand into the toilet and put those contents into a mason jar to bury them as well. Makes perfect sense. And is absolutely the logical thing I should have done. WHAT FUCKING ASSHOLES ARE MAKING UP THESE SHITTY LAWS!?!?! This is completely insane!!!! ETA: If you want to have a burial (or cremation) after your miscarriage I fully support you being able to make that decision. Saying goodbye in a formal manner can absolutely help with the healing process. But to mandate it, especially in such an extreme way is beyond the pale. Exactly!!! Stay out of our bodies, GOP. Stay out of our organs, our medical decisions and our loss decisions.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 0:00:22 GMT
My sister had the (somewhat) sense of closure of being able to bury my stillborn nephew. I never had that same type of closure after any of my miscarriages. This just adds mindblowing insult to already unbearable grief. The people behind this law belong in the 9th Circle of Hell. I am sorry for your losses. sassyangel.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,147
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Dec 1, 2019 0:21:28 GMT
While I would never wish a miscarriage on anyone, the people behind these proposed laws obviously have never experienced such a loss. If they had they would never propose something that would cause additional heartache to another human. Yes, they would because they are a bunch of misogynists.
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Post by nlwilkins on Dec 1, 2019 0:26:03 GMT
This would have never been possible when I had my two miscarriages. Both times there was no warning and I was so young (early 20'a) I did not even realize what was happening. In addition, the cost of burial would have meant financial hardship for us in a big way. I wonder what the mortuary businesses think of this.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 1:11:18 GMT
This would have never been possible when I had my two miscarriages. Both times there was no warning and I was so young (early 20'a) I did not even realize what was happening. In addition, the cost of burial would have meant financial hardship for us in a big way. I wonder what the mortuary businesses think of this. I am sorry for your loss, nlwilkins.
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Post by SockMonkey on Dec 1, 2019 1:36:47 GMT
This is four thousand kinds of fucked up and anyone who supports this should be ashamed of themselves. Ashamed.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Dec 1, 2019 1:58:11 GMT
Yes. I’d love to have had a funeral for the bloody pad that captured my miscarriage I had at 6 weeks. Also, I for sure should have scooped my hand into the toilet and put those contents into a mason jar to bury them as well. Makes perfect sense. And is absolutely the logical thing I should have done. WHAT FUCKING ASSHOLES ARE MAKING UP THESE SHITTY LAWS!?!?! This is completely insane!!!! ETA: If you want to have a burial (or cremation) after your miscarriage I fully support you being able to make that decision. Saying goodbye in a formal manner can absolutely help with the healing process. But to mandate it, especially in such an extreme way is beyond the pale. Yeah that. And I’m really relieved I’m not alone in my thinking on this. Wtf is this something that needs legislation? Meaning: money.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,798
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Dec 1, 2019 3:14:26 GMT
Wow! I’d be broke! Multiple miscarriages, ectopic. I had a D&C for one, guess the bloody tissue could be buried? Cytotec to force a missed miscarriage, sift it out of the bloody toilet water, I guess I could have buried the piece of placenta my doctor pulled from my cervix. D&C for another that I apparently miscarried into a toilet at some point since there were no “products of conception”. Arthroscopic surgery and a mashed up mass of cells that the doctor had to make so he could remove it inside one of my Fallopian tubes. Gee... I for sure want to be forced to bury those awful and sad (memories) pieces of tissue.
Fucktards!
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Post by lucyg on Dec 1, 2019 3:21:30 GMT
Yes. I’d love to have had a funeral for the bloody pad that captured my miscarriage I had at 6 weeks. Also, I for sure should have scooped my hand into the toilet and put those contents into a mason jar to bury them as well. Makes perfect sense. And is absolutely the logical thing I should have done. WHAT FUCKING ASSHOLES ARE MAKING UP THESE SHITTY LAWS!?!?! This is completely insane!!!! ETA: If you want to have a burial (or cremation) after your miscarriage I fully support you being able to make that decision. Saying goodbye in a formal manner can absolutely help with the healing process. But to mandate it, especially in such an extreme way is beyond the pale. Yeah that. And I’m really relieved I’m not alone in my thinking on this. Wtf is this something that needs legislation? Meaning: money. Not money. Controlling women's reproductive parts.
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Post by Merge on Dec 1, 2019 3:25:07 GMT
Guess I was supposed to drop out of college to work full time and pay for a funeral for my six-week miscarriage as a 19-year-old college sophomore.
The GOP are monsters.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 10:14:01 GMT
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Post by scrapsotime on Dec 1, 2019 13:56:41 GMT
My daughter is doing IVF. She just had 2 embryos transferred on the 21st. Friday she had blood work that showed the embryos did not implant. There is no sign that they did not implant. There is no bloody product. There is no way to tell when or if they are expelled because they can only be seen with a microscope at the stage they are at.
How do you bury or cremate something you can't even see?
Bloody bastards.
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sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,417
Location: Munich
Member is Online
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Dec 1, 2019 14:07:54 GMT
My daughter is doing IVF. She just had 2 embryos transferred on the 21st. Friday she had blood work that showed the embryos did not implant. There is no sign that they did not implant. There is no bloody product. There is no way to tell when or if they are expelled because they can only be seen with a microscope at the stage they are at. How do you bury or cremate something you can't even see? Bloody bastards. My DiL also so did IVF, and had one ectopic pregnancy and one transfer that didn’t implant. I can’t imagine her distress if she was told she had to hold funerals for both of these. I will keep your daughter in my prayers. We were so lucky to be blessed with a darling granddaughter in March, after IVF transfer #3, and I pray your daughter will also be successful in achieving a pregnancy soon.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 14:56:58 GMT
Wow! I’d be broke! Multiple miscarriages, ectopic. I had a D&C for one, guess the bloody tissue could be buried? Cytotec to force a missed miscarriage, sift it out of the bloody toilet water, I guess I could have buried the piece of placenta my doctor pulled from my cervix. D&C for another that I apparently miscarried into a toilet at some point since there were no “products of conception”. Arthroscopic surgery and a mashed up mass of cells that the doctor had to make so he could remove it inside one of my Fallopian tubes. Gee... I for sure want to be forced to bury those awful and sad (memories) pieces of tissue. Fucktards! I am sorry for your loss, seaexplore.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 14:57:24 GMT
Guess I was supposed to drop out of college to work full time and pay for a funeral for my six-week miscarriage as a 19-year-old college sophomore. The GOP are monsters. I am sorry for your loss, Merge
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 15:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 14:58:55 GMT
My daughter is doing IVF. She just had 2 embryos transferred on the 21st. Friday she had blood work that showed the embryos did not implant. There is no sign that they did not implant. There is no bloody product. There is no way to tell when or if they are expelled because they can only be seen with a microscope at the stage they are at. How do you bury or cremate something you can't even see? Bloody bastards. Exactly. I am sorry for your daughter and your loss, @scrapsoftime.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 1, 2019 15:58:03 GMT
I want to know WHY this bill even came up. What asshole went, you know what would show I am really pro life and anti women? Making them do something if they abort an egg AND just to show I am pro all conception I'll make women who miscarry naturally do it too.
That will teach those dirty women for having sex.
Good, that's written, now my side piece is waiting for me in a sleazy hotel and I have to vote tomorrow to end any government help to the babies and children that were born into poor families.
Assholes
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,798
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Dec 1, 2019 16:13:59 GMT
I want to know WHY this bill even came up. What asshole went, you know what would show I am really pro life and anti women? Making them do something if they abort an egg AND just to show I am pro all conception I'll make women who miscarry naturally do it too. That will teach those dirty women for having sex. Good, that's written, now my side piece is waiting for me in a sleazy hotel and I have to vote tomorrow to end any government help to the babies and children that were born into poor families. Assholes All of that!
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 1, 2019 16:18:46 GMT
This speaks to me of someone who was trying to figure out ways to reduce abortions or punish those who have them, without thinking about all of the other ramifications that would come with it. Seems like that is a common theme among the GOP. Critical thinking doesn't seem to be their strong suit these days.
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Post by Merge on Dec 1, 2019 16:41:42 GMT
Guess I was supposed to drop out of college to work full time and pay for a funeral for my six-week miscarriage as a 19-year-old college sophomore. The GOP are monsters. I am sorry for your loss, Merge Oh hon, I was 19 and thoroughly relieved when a positive pregnancy test and a week of absolute terror ended in what was basically a heavy and very crampy period. The thought that I would have had to try to explain that to my parents to pay for a "funeral" is unthinkable, though. Who would even have known? I told no one except my boyfriend and my roommate. I would never try to minimize someone else's loss by acting like mine was anything but a relief. I was NOT ready to be a mom at that time.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Dec 1, 2019 16:47:08 GMT
I love a lot of people and a lot of places and a lot of history in PA, but this right here is yet another reason why I will never move there to add to my tally. Of course, who knows, MD may turn around tomorrow and do something equally stupid and damaging to women.
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Post by scrappintoee on Dec 1, 2019 18:31:53 GMT
This is horrible, annnd----I just want to say I am SO SORRY to all of you who've had such heartbreaking losses !!!!! ((( hugs ))))
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Post by Scrapper100 on Dec 1, 2019 19:54:34 GMT
What the heck is wrong with these people? If a woman has a miscarriage she is supposed to keep the parts. Most are early on and there really isn’t anything to even bury. If doing ivf like others have said it’s microscopic and no way to recover it. Infertility sucks and no way we should make it even harder and more traumatic than it already is.
I understand later in a pregnancy but in the first few weeks the embryo is too small.
I really hope that these morons are voted out and sanity is voted in.
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