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Post by lucyg on Oct 22, 2014 16:55:20 GMT
I would like to see some murder accusations being retracted now. But I doubt that will happen.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 4,209
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Oct 22, 2014 17:00:04 GMT
Very interesting.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 17:08:39 GMT
I know its a pipe dream but I wish the crowds would have waited for the independent findings before rioting.....
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 17:16:24 GMT
I would like to see some murder accusations being retracted now. But I doubt that will happen. There has never been a dispute that there was an altercation in the vehicle. It's interesting that they aren't saying anything about the distance between Wilson and Brown for the remaining 6 gun shot wounds, including the fatal shot. This still does not really tell us what happened.
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Post by annabella on Oct 22, 2014 17:28:07 GMT
I always thought Michael Brown was at fault.
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Post by whopea on Oct 22, 2014 17:33:02 GMT
I would like to see some murder accusations being retracted now. But I doubt that will happen. There has never been a dispute that there was an altercation in the vehicle. It's interesting that they aren't saying anything about the distance between Wilson and Brown for the remaining 6 gun shot wounds, including the fatal shot. This still does not really tell us what happened. You're right, it doesn't tell the whole story of what happened. But what do you think the officer's reaction should have been when he knows that he's already fought for his gun with the suspect, that the suspect has been shot once and now is coming towards him again? With the little bits of evidence that have been released so far, it seems that the officer realistically feared for his life. What should he have done?
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Oct 22, 2014 17:41:42 GMT
The article the OP linked does go on to explain the remaining six gunshot wounds. I'd copy/paste but my damn iPad won't let me. Anyway, if someone can copy/paste that portion from the original article that would be great!
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Post by ukfan on Oct 22, 2014 17:45:31 GMT
There has never been a dispute that there was an altercation in the vehicle. It's interesting that they aren't saying anything about the distance between Wilson and Brown for the remaining 6 gun shot wounds, including the fatal shot. This still does not really tell us what happened. You're right, it doesn't tell the whole story of what happened. But what do you think the officer's reaction should have been when he knows that he's already fought for his gun with the suspect, that the suspect has been shot once and now is coming towards him again? With the little bits of evidence that have been released so far, it seems that the officer realistically feared for his life. What should he have done? I agree whopea - I am not sure what else would be expected?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 17:46:34 GMT
The article the OP linked does go on to explain the remaining six gunshot wounds. I'd copy/paste but my damn iPad won't let me. Anyway, if someone can copy/paste that portion from the original article that would be great! Unless I missed it, it describes the location of the wounds, but not the distance.
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scrapgirl
Junior Member

Posts: 90
Oct 22, 2014 17:34:49 GMT
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Post by scrapgirl on Oct 22, 2014 17:46:48 GMT
I would really like to know what the general public expects a police officer to do when someone is fighting them for control of their gun. Seriously. I think that the second an altercation begins for control of a weapon the only logical outcome is to kill or be killed. I can not blame any police officer for firing their weapon in such a situation.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 17:54:07 GMT
There has never been a dispute that there was an altercation in the vehicle. It's interesting that they aren't saying anything about the distance between Wilson and Brown for the remaining 6 gun shot wounds, including the fatal shot. This still does not really tell us what happened. You're right, it doesn't tell the whole story of what happened. But what do you think the officer's reaction should have been when he knows that he's already fought for his gun with the suspect, that the suspect has been shot once and now is coming towards him again? With the little bits of evidence that have been released so far, it seems that the officer realistically feared for his life. What should he have done? Six independent witnesses say that he fled from the car after the incident there, then after Wilson fired multiple shots, Brown turned around and was surrendering and was about 30 feet away. Wilson continued to fire. None of the witnesses say he was lunging at him. Of course Wilson has a right to defend himself and firing the gun in response to someone trying to grab it is totally reasonable. I am not sure that the continued shooting as he was retreating and once he stopped at a distance was reasonable.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 17:59:41 GMT
I would like to see some murder accusations being retracted now. But I doubt that will happen. I doubt it, too. I'll be interested to see what the Dept of Justice's independent autopsy says, as well. It hasn't been released to the public yet.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Oct 22, 2014 18:01:10 GMT
The article the OP linked does go on to explain the remaining six gunshot wounds. I'd copy/paste but my damn iPad won't let me. Anyway, if someone can copy/paste that portion from the original article that would be great! Unless I missed it, it describes the location of the wounds, but not the distance. It said Brown was facing Wilson when he sustained shots to the forehead and chest. The shot to the head was sustained while Brown was in a lunging position. The shot to the back of the arm does not support witness statements that he had his hands outstretched in surrender. It does not specify the distance but it also goes against what witnesses were saying about Wilson.
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Post by snowsilver on Oct 22, 2014 18:04:19 GMT
What I'd like to believe is that it will make a difference to those who were so gun-ho ready to convict the officer and the police department as a whole. But I doubt it will. Too many people don't want to let facts get in their way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 18:08:28 GMT
Unless I missed it, it describes the location of the wounds, but not the distance. It said Brown was facing Wilson when he sustained shots to the forehead and chest. The shot to the head was sustained while Brown was in a lunging position. The shot to the back of the arm does not support witness statements that he had his hands outstretched in surrender. It does not specify the distance but it also goes against what witnesses were saying about Wilson. No, that's not quite what it said. FALLING FORWARD or lunging. A shot in the forehead, two in the chest and one in the upper arm - seems unlikely (though of course not impossible) that he was "lunging." Falling down does seem likely. And again, the lack of mention of distance is troublesome. If he was "lunging" from 5 feet, that's quite different than lunging from 40 feet.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 18:12:12 GMT
What I'd like to believe is that it will make a difference to those who were so gun-ho ready to convict the officer and the police department as a whole. But I doubt it will. Too many people don't want to let facts get in their way. We still don't have all the facts! The consistent delays, misinformation, flat out lies, and so on that have surrounded this case have made people extremely skeptical. The obfuscation and lack of transparency from the very beginning is troublesome. I am not saying, at all, that Officer Wilson is guilty of anything but protecting himself. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. We don't know. What we do know is that the police have been acting like they have something to hide. If they were more forthcoming, I don't think people would be so quick to believe the worst.
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Post by whopea on Oct 22, 2014 18:14:54 GMT
You're right, it doesn't tell the whole story of what happened. But what do you think the officer's reaction should have been when he knows that he's already fought for his gun with the suspect, that the suspect has been shot once and now is coming towards him again? With the little bits of evidence that have been released so far, it seems that the officer realistically feared for his life. What should he have done? Six independent witnesses say that he fled from the car after the incident there, then after Wilson fired multiple shots, Brown turned around and was surrendering and was about 30 feet away. Wilson continued to fire. None of the witnesses say he was lunging at him. Of course Wilson has a right to defend himself and firing the gun in response to someone trying to grab it is totally reasonable. I am not sure that the continued shooting as he was retreating and once he stopped at a distance was reasonable. So I'll ask again, what should this officer have done? We know through a leak that the officer sustained facial injuries from the altercation in the vehicle. He knows that the suspect has been shot once and is fleeing. His vision may be partially impaired due to his injuries. He fires two more shots and the suspect is still standing and witness accounts vary here, say he was approaching toward the officer. What should he have done?
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Post by whopea on Oct 22, 2014 18:17:14 GMT
What I'd like to believe is that it will make a difference to those who were so gun-ho ready to convict the officer and the police department as a whole. But I doubt it will. Too many people don't want to let facts get in their way. We still don't have all the facts! The consistent delays, misinformation, flat out lies, and so on that have surrounded this case have made people extremely skeptical. The obfuscation and lack of transparency from the very beginning is troublesome. I am not saying, at all, that Officer Wilson is guilty of anything but protecting himself. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. We don't know. What we do know is that the police have been acting like they have something to hide. If they were more forthcoming, I don't think people would be so quick to believe the worst. I think the police department has acted correctly given the situation. They had riots on their hands and no matter what was said or done it would not have stopped them. They've let the criminal justice system take it's deliberate course. The ones responsible for whipping up the frenzy are the media. They've been the ones to report misinformation and lies.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 18:17:57 GMT
Six independent witnesses say that he fled from the car after the incident there, then after Wilson fired multiple shots, Brown turned around and was surrendering and was about 30 feet away. Wilson continued to fire. None of the witnesses say he was lunging at him. Of course Wilson has a right to defend himself and firing the gun in response to someone trying to grab it is totally reasonable. I am not sure that the continued shooting as he was retreating and once he stopped at a distance was reasonable. So I'll ask again, what should this officer have done? We know through a leak that the officer sustained facial injuries from the altercation in the vehicle. He knows that the suspect has been shot once and is fleeing. His vision may be partially impaired due to his injuries. He fires two more shots and the suspect is still standing and witness accounts vary here, say he was approaching toward the officer. What should he have done? I don't know what he should have done because I don't know what actually happened. And I also don't know that he sustained facial injuries. That "leak" is unsubstantiated. If they would actually release a police report on the investigation, we would all be in a better position to know whether the continued firing was appropriate. But they refuse to release a report. So, all any of us have to go on is what has been reported in the media.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Oct 22, 2014 18:20:30 GMT
It said Brown was facing Wilson when he sustained shots to the forehead and chest. The shot to the head was sustained while Brown was in a lunging position. The shot to the back of the arm does not support witness statements that he had his hands outstretched in surrender. It does not specify the distance but it also goes against what witnesses were saying about Wilson. No, that's not quite what it said. FALLING FORWARD or lunging. A shot in the forehead, two in the chest and one in the upper arm - seems unlikely (though of course not impossible) that he was "lunging." Falling down does seem likely. And again, the lack of mention of distance is troublesome. If he was "lunging" from 5 feet, that's quite different than lunging from 40 feet. Okay, he was falling down OR lunging forward according to the autopsy. It definitely rules out that he was running away or had his hands outstretched in surrender. Lunging is just as likely as falling forward. If you don't trust the officers in this case you should also not trust the eyewitness accounts or (edited to add) the media either.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:35:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 18:25:57 GMT
He ran away, then turned. That is the story that is consistent among all the witnesses AND the officer.
When six INDEPENDENT witnesses who do not know each other and were not together give largely the same account of what happens, I give credence to their story.
And again, we still have NO official police report so we do not know what the officer really says happened.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama

La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 22, 2014 18:32:00 GMT
No, that's not quite what it said. FALLING FORWARD or lunging. A shot in the forehead, two in the chest and one in the upper arm - seems unlikely (though of course not impossible) that he was "lunging." Falling down does seem likely. And again, the lack of mention of distance is troublesome. If he was "lunging" from 5 feet, that's quite different than lunging from 40 feet. Okay, he was falling down OR lunging forward according to the autopsy. It definitely rules out that he was running away or had his hands outstretched in surrender. Lunging is just as likely as falling forward. If you don't trust the officers in this case you should also not trust the eyewitness accounts or (edited to add) the media either. Just so that I'm clear on what you are saying - we should hold the accounts of independent witnesses who all agree with each other at a lower level of trust than that of a police department that has something to lose if one of their officers actually did what those independent witnesses say that he did? Why?
I'm with busypea, we don't have all of the facts. The autopsy tells us very little other than that one bullet that didn't kill him was shot at close range.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Oct 22, 2014 18:34:23 GMT
I would really like to know what the general public expects a police officer to do when someone is fighting them for control of their gun. Seriously. I think that the second an altercation begins for control of a weapon the only logical outcome is to kill or be killed. I can not blame any police officer for firing their weapon in such a situation. Thank you for this. I keep seeing arm chair quarterbacking from people after the fact and outside the heat of the moment. It is very easy to say after the fact that someone didn't have a gun, they weren't armed, etc. But when these men and women are being confronted or attacked by someone they don't always know that and they are defending themselves and doing what they can in the moment to keep the public safe.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Oct 22, 2014 19:04:02 GMT
Okay, he was falling down OR lunging forward according to the autopsy. It definitely rules out that he was running away or had his hands outstretched in surrender. Lunging is just as likely as falling forward. If you don't trust the officers in this case you should also not trust the eyewitness accounts or (edited to add) the media either. Just so that I'm clear on what you are saying - we should hold the accounts of independent witnesses who all agree with each other at a lower level of trust than that of a police department that has something to lose if one of their officers actually did what those independent witnesses say that he did? Why?
I'm with busypea, we don't have all of the facts. The autopsy tells us very little other than that one bullet that didn't kill him was shot at close range.
No, that's not what I said. I'm saying that the autopsy reports have contradicted eyewitness accounts. I was also directly responding to Busypea saying she didn't trust the cops. I think taking the autopsy report into account that those eyewitness reports aren't entirely accurate either. And neither is what the media has been reporting.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama

La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 22, 2014 19:08:23 GMT
Just so that I'm clear on what you are saying - we should hold the accounts of independent witnesses who all agree with each other at a lower level of trust than that of a police department that has something to lose if one of their officers actually did what those independent witnesses say that he did? Why?
I'm with busypea, we don't have all of the facts. The autopsy tells us very little other than that one bullet that didn't kill him was shot at close range.
No, that's not what I said. I'm saying that the autopsy reports have contradicted eyewitness accounts. I was also directly responding to Busypea saying she didn't trust the cops. I think taking the autopsy report into account that those eyewitness reports aren't entirely accurate either. And neither is what the media has been reporting. Which ones do they contradict? Every one that I read say that there was a struggle through the window of the car, at least one shot was fired, Brown took off on foot, the officer fired some shots, Brown turned around with his hands in the air and the officer shot him a few more times, killing him.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,963
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Oct 22, 2014 19:12:49 GMT
You're right, it doesn't tell the whole story of what happened. But what do you think the officer's reaction should have been when he knows that he's already fought for his gun with the suspect, that the suspect has been shot once and now is coming towards him again? With the little bits of evidence that have been released so far, it seems that the officer realistically feared for his life. What should he have done? Six independent witnesses say that he fled from the car after the incident there, then after Wilson fired multiple shots, Brown turned around and was surrendering and was about 30 feet away. Wilson continued to fire. None of the witnesses say he was lunging at him. Of course Wilson has a right to defend himself and firing the gun in response to someone trying to grab it is totally reasonable. I am not sure that the continued shooting as he was retreating and once he stopped at a distance was reasonable. Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist not involved in the autopsy, told the newspaper that the finding “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.” Melinek also told the newspaper that the autopsy did not support witness accounts that the fatal shot, later, was fired while Brown was running away from the officer or had his hands up.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama

La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 22, 2014 19:15:15 GMT
Six independent witnesses say that he fled from the car after the incident there, then after Wilson fired multiple shots, Brown turned around and was surrendering and was about 30 feet away. Wilson continued to fire. None of the witnesses say he was lunging at him. Of course Wilson has a right to defend himself and firing the gun in response to someone trying to grab it is totally reasonable. I am not sure that the continued shooting as he was retreating and once he stopped at a distance was reasonable. Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist not involved in the autopsy, told the newspaper that the finding “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.” Melinek also told the newspaper that the autopsy did not support witness accounts that the fatal shot, later, was fired while Brown was running away from the officer or had his hands up.
Nobody said that the fatal shot came while he was running away. Why would anyone run away with their freaking hands in the air? Where is the logic in that?
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Post by pierogi on Oct 22, 2014 19:15:56 GMT
The autopsy does not contradict witness accounts at all.
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Post by beebee on Oct 22, 2014 19:38:48 GMT
At some point, I saw a video that was supposedly taken right after the shooting and a guy on the street said that Brown started running at the officer. Did anyone else see that video? I only saw it that one time.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,963
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Oct 22, 2014 19:40:39 GMT
At some point, I saw a video that was supposedly taken right after the shooting and a guy on the street said that Brown started running at the officer. Did anyone else see that video? I only saw it that one time. I saw it once immediately after, but not since.
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