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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 20:20:47 GMT
"What was your first reaction when you saw the video of the white cop kneeling on George Floyd’s neck while Floyd croaked, “I can’t breathe”? If you’re white, you probably muttered a horrified, “Oh, my God” while shaking your head at the cruel injustice. If you’re black, you probably leapt to your feet, cursed, maybe threw something (certainly wanted to throw something), while shouting, “Not @#$%! again!” Then you remember the two white vigilantes accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery as he jogged through their neighborhood in February, and how if it wasn’t for that video emerging a few weeks ago, they would have gotten away with it. And how those Minneapolis cops claimed Floyd was resisting arrest but a store’s video showed he wasn’t. And how the cop on Floyd’s neck wasn’t an enraged redneck stereotype, but a sworn officer who looked calm and entitled and devoid of pity: the banality of evil incarnate. Maybe you also are thinking about the Karen in Central Park who called 911 claiming the black man who asked her to put a leash on her dog was threatening her. Or the black Yale University grad student napping in the common room of her dorm who was reported by a white student. Because you realize it’s not just a supposed “black criminal” who is targeted, it’s the whole spectrum of black faces from Yonkers to Yale. You start to wonder if it should be all black people who wear body cams, not the cops.... You’re not wrong — but you’re not right, either. The black community is used to the institutional racism inherent in education, the justice system and jobs. And even though we do all the conventional things to raise public and political awareness — write articulate and insightful pieces in the Atlantic, explain the continued devastation on CNN, support candidates who promise change — the needle hardly budges... Yes, protests often are used as an excuse for some to take advantage, just as when fans celebrating a hometown sports team championship burn cars and destroy storefronts. I don’t want to see stores looted or even buildings burn. But African Americans have been living in a burning building for many years, choking on the smoke as the flames burn closer and closer. Racism in America is like dust in the air. It seems invisible — even if you’re choking on it — until you let the sun in. Then you see it’s everywhere. As long as we keep shining that light, we have a chance of cleaning it wherever it lands. But we have to stay vigilant, because it’s always still in the air." www-latimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-05-30/dont-understand-the-protests-what-youre-seeing-is-people-pushed-to-the-edge
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Post by pierogi on Jun 1, 2020 21:11:10 GMT
Thanks for posting this. Our country needs to confront our racism problem if we hope to move forward. It's like the old aphorism: "If nothing changes, nothing changes."
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Post by sasha on Jun 1, 2020 21:21:34 GMT
I understand peaceful protests, yes.
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 1, 2020 21:22:46 GMT
It is funny, because I have my hat in a lot of different rings, professionally and personally, and reactions to both the murder and the protests vary so much in both substance and intensity.
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Post by allison1954 on Jun 1, 2020 21:23:24 GMT
i understand protests.
i don’t understand the looting/ destruction of personal property
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 1, 2020 21:27:49 GMT
A friend shared this today on fb:
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hannahruth
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Aug 29, 2014 18:57:20 GMT
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Post by hannahruth on Jun 1, 2020 21:37:12 GMT
i understand protests. i don’t understand the looting/ destruction of personal property As a white person living in Australia I don't understand it either BUT what I can see is the pain and misery, discrimination and unjust practices against coloured people since the first slave ship docked way back when. The blacks in America would have to be one of the most displaced persons in the entire world. They were given no say in what happened to them. Ripped from their families, the countries and their way of life in such a barbaric way they have been fighting ever since. This riots and what is coming with them is not just about the death of George Floyd but about all the other deaths that have happened, all the discrimination, the poor work/living conditions - the list goes on. This is the breaking point with the community saying NO MORE.
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tracylynn
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Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on Jun 1, 2020 21:48:03 GMT
i understand protests. i don’t understand the looting/ destruction of personal property The worst part about it is that in most cases it's very much 2 different groups. The protests that are peaceful are typically the ones who are protesting another death of a black man by Police. The violence, destruction and looting is primarily happening by anarchists and white surpremacists who are taking advantage of the situation, causing chaos and hope to throw blame to those peacefully protesting. It's sickening.
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Post by hopemax on Jun 1, 2020 22:20:28 GMT
I think I understand. At least in terms of cause -> effect. I do not claim to understand the rage, and confluence of circumstances that has led to this moment. I have that privilege.
Am I sad for the people who have to deal with damaged property, and personal violence at the hands of rioters. Am I shocked, and frustrated that other paths weren't taken. Of course!
I am not a regular poster here, but in places where I am a regular poster I had to step away because my choice to not join their calls of indignation toward the rioters...did not go well. These people wring their hands, and say, "I don't understand. Help me understand." Then respond to the 1 or or 2 people who offer explanations with a stream of reasons why they are doubling-down on previously held beliefs. How dare people excuse violence and destruction! And then in the next post, call for violence toward these people as the solution, and label them with derogatory and inflammatory terms.
So I've been trying to think of more productive ways. The hard part is that, I am a really, really, really strong introvert. My circle is literally my DH, and my Dad that lives in FL. I have other family, in other parts of the country, but the personal relationship is acquaintance level. I've had more personal relationships with online people than in real life, but as people's lives ebb and flow those relationships have ceased. I am a lonely individual, and most of the time that's okay, but then there are situations like this, and it's hard to know where to begin, and more importantly how to be effective. I know there are places to donate, but that seems like not enough.
I see the messages about voting, which is certainly a very important part. But it's slow. Elections aren't until November, with actual handoff in January, and even political leaders with strong policy solutions then have to get it approved by their legislative body, where it gets nit-picked and watered down to once again, become ineffective if it reaches the floor at all. No one politician can implement change on his own. Look at what happened with the Obama administration. Even Department policies and Executive Orders have been systematically overturned over the last 3+ years.
I have been thinking about how corporations have responded, with the realization that it's not enough. A message on Twitter or Facebook in support of #BLM means very little when your corporate policies do not address the root causes of all of this. Not just criminal justice, but all aspects of social inequality. Not just social profiling, "shopping while black." Or even in the makeup of the employees and management. Living wage, health care, family leave, etc. So many corporations have justified their inability to provide those things. Then the pandemic happened, and suddenly "essential workers" can have $2 hour raises and sick leave (temporarily), and others can have friendlier WFH policies that might help with parental availability. These things have the benefit of being solutions for many people. Solutions that target racial inequalities, don't just help people of color. It's opened my eyes to how these roadblocks aren't really roadblocks if the will is great enough to remove them. At some point we can choose to make the choice to change, and figure out how to deal with the consequences as they arise. Not figure out the solutions to all potential scenarios first (impossible) and only then make changes. That's the way "the system" stays where it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 22:45:18 GMT
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."
Congressman John Lewis..
”I know your pain, your rage, your sense of despair and hopelessness. Justice has, indeed, been denied for far too long. Rioting, looting, and burning is not the way. Organize. Demonstrate. Sit-in. Stand-up. Vote. Be constructive, not destructive.”
Every time an unarmed black man is killed by the police the same thing happens. There are protests, that lead to riots. People are hurt, people die, business are destroyed. Then things go back to the status quo with no real change. Or any change for that matter. And the next time it happens the protests start .....
Racism is not going to away because one can’t force people to think a certain way. But what can be done is marginalize it. Make these individuals as insignificant as humanly possible.
And it’s done by change.
Congressman Lewis tweeted what needs to be done yesterday and today President Obama outlined in more detail what needs to be done by all parties that want this needed change.
IMO most important thing both men said was to vote. Vote on the local level, vote on the state level and vote on the national level. Change in this country comes through the ballot box. But you got to show up and make informed votes. And that means everyone who wants to marginalize racists. Make them an endangered species that doesn’t need to be saved. Will it be easy? No, because we already know there is a political party that is hell bent on limiting who can vote. Will it happen overnight? No but protesting doesn’t seem to be doing much because it keeps happening. Year after year.
I don’t think I really understood how important voting was until 2016. It really is the one thing that ultimately shapes the direction of this country. We the People chose, through the ballot box, who we want to run the country. It’s We the People that decide what local and state propositions we want to see enacted on the local level. We don’t always get who or what we want, but that is no excuse not to show up and keep trying until we get it right. The stakes are too high to quit.
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Post by sasha on Jun 1, 2020 23:35:57 GMT
A friend shared this today on fb: Amen. I've never understood why people got all bent out of shape. His protest was respectful. It was peaceful. White people, do better.
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 1, 2020 23:44:56 GMT
A friend shared this today on fb: Amen. I've never understood why people got all bent out of shape. His protest was respectful. It was peaceful. White people, do better. I cut social media ties with someone I vaguely knew in HS because she was posting that cars should mow down protesters and applauding the cars that are doing so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 0:28:02 GMT
i understand protests. i don’t understand the looting/ destruction of personal property You don't? I think I understand a lot of it: Opportunism - glomming on to the BLM protests for their own selfish ends. Some because they live in hatred. Some because they live in greed. Some because they live in disenfranchisement. Destruction probably feels good to them. When you feel like the world is out to destroy you, sometimes it feels good to feel like you're 'screwing it back' for a change. Destruction is easy. Creation is hard. When you can't make a mark by what you create, maybe you can make a mark by what you destroy. When you get ignored all the time, you look for ways to make an impact in a way that's hard to ignore. I don't excuse ANY of it - whether done by Proud Boys, Antifa, protestors, or anyone else. But I think I understand it. We think we can live in a country where the bottom 80% of people have to fight for 23% of the wealth. Yeah, keep pretending that's going to work long-term. Instead of concentrating and consolidating 77% of the country's wealth in 20% of the country's hands, we could use that money to hire people to help other people - win win. But, no, we prefer to ignore this growing problem and pretend it has nothing to do w/the mess that America is in. www.morningsidecenter.org/teachable-moment/lessons/exploring-wealth-inequality-and-proposals-address-it
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Kath
Full Member
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Jun 26, 2014 12:15:31 GMT
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Post by Kath on Jun 2, 2020 1:25:54 GMT
So what if people are looting a few things they can grab here and there? The rich have been looting the rest of us for years, they’ve sucked the wealth and lifeblood from us, and nobody has cared. People want to run in and grab a TV, a Gucci bag, and a box of chicken nuggets? I don’t care.
The press, the police and the “keep the status quo” people want to distract us by pointing at random people stealing a few things to take focus off the huge issue in front of us, the important issue: systemic racism.
I don’t give a sh!t about stuff being stolen or a few looters. I really don’t. In fact, I feel angry when energy and focus are directed at looting and not at systemic racism. It’s a distraction and distraction keeps us from focusing all of our energy where it needs to go, on stopping police brutality against minorities.
Don’t talk to me about the looters, talk to me about what we’re going to do with the police.
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Post by flanz on Jun 2, 2020 2:07:02 GMT
A friend shared this today on fb: I appreciated seeing this today as well. I'm not a sports fan but got the feeling that the person who wrote it was also a pro football player, at least then. Too little too late, but I'm glad whoever wrote it has expressed a change of heart. @zingermack, thanks very much for posting this link and excerpt. I especially appreciate this bit: "But African Americans have been living in a burning building for many years, choking on the smoke as the flames burn closer and closer. Racism in America is like dust in the air. It seems invisible — even if you’re choking on it — until you let the sun in."
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Post by Linda on Jun 2, 2020 2:20:24 GMT
I'm struggling with words today - and feeling overwhlemed...but i'm reading and listening and learning and I will be voting
Thank you to those sharing and teaching - I am praying because I don't know what else to do
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 2, 2020 2:22:16 GMT
Thanks for posting this. Our country needs to confront our racism problem if we hope to move forward. It's like the old aphorism: "If nothing changes, nothing changes." Did you hear what the National Security Advisor said today—that he does not think there is a systemic racism problem, just a few bad apples? What The Ever Living Fuck? ?
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 2, 2020 2:28:01 GMT
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."
Congressman John Lewis..”I know your pain, your rage, your sense of despair and hopelessness. Justice has, indeed, been denied for far too long. Rioting, looting, and burning is not the way. Organize. Demonstrate. Sit-in. Stand-up. Vote. Be constructive, not destructive.”
Every time an unarmed black man is killed by the police the same thing happens. There are protests, that lead to riots. People are hurt, people die, business are destroyed. Then things go back to the status quo with no real change. Or any change for that matter. And the next time it happens the protests start ..... Racism is not going to away because one can’t force people to think a certain way. But what can be done is marginalize it. Make these individuals as insignificant as humanly possible. And it’s done by change. Congressman Lewis tweeted what needs to be done yesterday and today President Obama outlined in more detail what needs to be done by all parties that want this needed change. IMO most important thing both men said was to vote. Vote on the local level, vote on the state level and vote on the national level. Change in this country comes through the ballot box. But you got to show up and make informed votes. And that means everyone who wants to marginalize racists. Make them an endangered species that doesn’t need to be saved. Will it be easy? No, because we already know there is a political party that is hell bent on limiting who can vote. Will it happen overnight? No but protesting doesn’t seem to be doing much because it keeps happening. Year after year. I don’t think I really understood how important voting was until 2016. It really is the one thing that ultimately shapes the direction of this country. We the People chose, through the ballot box, who we want to run the country. It’s We the People that decide what local and state propositions we want to see enacted on the local level. We don’t always get who or what we want, but that is no excuse not to show up and keep trying until we get it right. The stakes are too high to quit. Amen! Vote!
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Post by sasha on Jun 2, 2020 2:47:33 GMT
So what if people are looting a few things they can grab here and there? The rich have been looting the rest of us for years, they’ve sucked the wealth and lifeblood from us, and nobody has cared. People want to run in and grab a TV, a Gucci bag, and a box of chicken nuggets? I don’t care. The press, the police and the “keep the status quo” people want to distract us by pointing at random people stealing a few things to take focus off the huge issue in front of us, the important issue: systemic racism. I don’t give a sh!t about stuff being stolen or a few looters. I really don’t. In fact, I feel angry when energy and focus are directed at looting and not at systemic racism. It’s a distraction and distraction keeps us from focusing all of our energy where it needs to go, on stopping police brutality against minorities. Don’t talk to me about the looters, talk to me about what we’re going to do with the police. But it's not just the "rich" that they are being looted.
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Post by jenjie on Jun 2, 2020 4:17:47 GMT
I agree with the post quoted upthread. I didn’t get it. Because I didn’t see. I thought incidents were isolated. My black friends don’t talk about it. Or, they didn’t. But when my black friends, and their friends, and black friends of other white friends, all start saying the same thing, “this is nothing new, this is every day”... when I watched that woman so casually and deliberately call police on a man who asked her to leash her dog, raising her voice to the level of hysteria... when those four officers went way beyond excessive use of force to murder George Floyd... now I understand why Kapaernick kneels. Because that flag means different things to different segments of society. Now I understand why Olan continues to point out racial inequalities and injustice. I’m sorry it took so long for me to see. Please forgive me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 6:17:05 GMT
I agree with the post quoted upthread. I didn’t get it. Because I didn’t see. I thought incidents were isolated. My black friends don’t talk about it. Or, they didn’t. But when my black friends, and their friends, and black friends of other white friends, all start saying the same thing, “this is nothing new, this is every day”... when I watched that woman so casually and deliberately call police on a man who asked her to leash her dog, raising her voice to the level of hysteria... when those four officers went way beyond excessive use of force to murder George Floyd... now I understand why Kapaernick kneels. Because that flag means different things to different segments of society. Now I understand why Olan continues to point out racial inequalities and injustice. I’m sorry it took so long for me to see. Please forgive me. And me.
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Post by flanz on Jun 2, 2020 6:24:35 GMT
I agree with the post quoted upthread. I didn’t get it. Because I didn’t see. I thought incidents were isolated. My black friends don’t talk about it. Or, they didn’t. But when my black friends, and their friends, and black friends of other white friends, all start saying the same thing, “this is nothing new, this is every day”... when I watched that woman so casually and deliberately call police on a man who asked her to leash her dog, raising her voice to the level of hysteria... when those four officers went way beyond excessive use of force to murder George Floyd... now I understand why Kapaernick kneels. Because that flag means different things to different segments of society. Now I understand why Olan continues to point out racial inequalities and injustice. I’m sorry it took so long for me to see. Please forgive me. jenjie, THANK YOU for keeping your mind and heart open to learning and growning. So many are so resistant of anything that will change their beliefs.
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Post by nlwilkins on Jun 2, 2020 8:10:31 GMT
Its like you are upset and frustrated, looking in a mirror and the upset just overcomes you and you throw the dish soap into the mirror and shatter it. It is destructive, but the anger, frustration and sense of helplessness was overwhelming.
This is just a portion of what some of these protestors are feeling. Notice I say protestors. Some of them are just plain looters taking advantage of the situation. But I truly believe there are some who are seriously upset and outraged over the whole system that is infected with racism. They are surrounded by people feeling the same outrage and frustration and before you know it there is a police car burning, or windows broken out of a store.
Actions like this are not thought out ahead of time, or planned, but spontaneous. Many of you will find ways to discredit this explanation - like they brought tools to the protest to vandalize, or this or that happened. Frustration and anger like this never makes sense, but it happens. Perhaps it seems premeditated, but you don't know the frame of mind a person was in when they left home to attend a protest or why they happen to have a baseball bat in their hands. Perhaps they themselves don't know.
When you have tamped down the anger for generations. . . When you have shrugged off the frustration for year after year when it erupts there is a deep well of pure emotion that will not be stopped and nothing that happens afterwards will make sense. Emotions are not always sensible. Your sense of self disappears and you become the tool of the anger and frustration that is erupting around you and within you.
To the outsider, it does not make sense. Chances are to the person doing the destruction it does not make sense other than they no longer had control over the anger and frustration within them.
So quit trying to make explanations. Look within yourself and wonder how you could control anger and frustration if you had to live with racism directed at you every day of you life. Racism does not take a break, it is pervasive and everywhere. One never knows when it will pop up and destroy your life, your family, your career, or your whole mental stability.
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jun 2, 2020 13:17:41 GMT
My niece is getting grief because their protest last night was peaceful. There was police presence but they were keeping streets blocked off to traffic so that everyone could hear the speakers. They sang some powerful songs from the videos i seen. When the speaking part was over they stayed and kneeled or danced. There was zero violence or property damage and the attendance was huge. She said probably 95% wore masks. Yet, like with almost everything that goes on in the world, there are arm chair warriors texting her that they were too peaceful.
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Olan
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Jun 2, 2020 14:00:42 GMT
Peaceful protests didn’t get anyone’s attention either. I just saw a pea post something along the lines of an apology to Kapernick as if it wasn’t abundantly clear even then what black people were up against. Enslaved Africans were brought back to their masters by the police. The history of police brutality isn’t a “new thing”! The optics of this makes it seem that there needs to be hundreds of black bodies dead before “enough is enough”. Why would anyone be comfortable with that? If my ignorance or inaction resulted in the death of even one person I wouldn’t go around bragging or expecting someone else to educate me.
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Post by sasha on Jun 3, 2020 11:21:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 14:54:36 GMT
PS
I can't wait to see their mug shots.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 18:10:51 GMT
Yeah, they seem like totes normal "protestors" as opposed to angry young men looking for an excuse to cause violence. "Police in New York have actually thanked protesters who informed them to an Ohio- signed up car which was discovered to be full of weapons Officers stated they were tipped off by demonstrators in Brooklyn, who on Thursday saw a male waving a machete near a car with Ohio plates.When police browsed the car, they discovered knives, bricks, point-to-point radios, gas masks and fuel. ‘All types of various things that you will not give a serene demonstration,’ stated Captain Melody Robinson, 84 th Precinct Executive Officer The Ohio- signed up car, envisioned, was browsed and discovered to consist of incendiary products. Aaron Evanshine, 36, from Columbus, Ohio and Brian Contreras, 24, from Queens, have actually been arrested and charged with weapons ownership.." theunionjournal.com/two-arrested-in-ohio-car-full-of-weapons-at-new-york-rally-after-police-tipped-off-by-protestors/
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