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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 10:50:10 GMT
You have gotten some great advice already. DS is now 14. Year before last he and I seemed to be constantly at each other's throats. We have generally been pretty close but I can't tell you how many nights I cried wondering what I had done wrong that turned him into such a little butthole! During this Covid lockdown, we have spent lots and lots of time talking about so many things. He told me that during that particular time that we were having difficulty, he was really, really having a hard time with a national exam he was having to take at the end of the year. He described such anxiety over this test and how he suffered so much in silence. My heart broke actually to think how much he was going through and I just didn't know. But he can be rather introverted and he is one that it takes a while to know how things affect him. He kind of chews on stuff for awhile before it cycles back out. Looking back on it now, I can see how he just didn't know how to cope with what was going on. Not excusing bad behavior...just suggesting to see what might be behind it. Good luck. Thank you for the gentle reminder to look at the cause of the behavior! Covid has definitely not helped her anxiety in some ways.
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 10:55:57 GMT
I agree that picking battles is important. I agree that setting limits/expectations of behavior is important. I have taught my kids it in never okay to attack or disrespect me or each other. I try to keep things pretty light-hearted, I try very hard not to yell. When I see my kids pushing back or rolling their eyes, I jokingly acknowledge it, “I saw you roll your eyes, little missy.” with a smile. They will try hard not to, but they usually crack and start laughing, too. Then we talk about whatever it is that they feel frustrated about. I don’t know... I probably talk my kids to death, but I want them to know WHY certain rules are in place and not just RULES ARE RULES, DON’T QUESTION ME stuff I grew up with. I grew up in a similar house. Dad's word was final (and to some extent, so was mom's), no explanations or questions needed. I felt myself subtly doing the same, which is why I really needed the advice today! Thank you for great advice!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 10:58:47 GMT
Board her until she is about 22!! Just kidding, there no known cure for teenhood in girls. I’m sorry you have reached this phase of life. It will make you appreciate the terrible twos. My only advice is to choose your battles. If she doesn’t get a response for eye rolls and the classic sighing, it will lessen their use. I’ve gotten my revenge, all my kids now have teenagers. What fun it is to see the tables turned. Good luck. Hugs. Boarding her sounds like a great option some days! Definitely need to work on choosing my battles and not respond to every little thing. Thank you for the advice!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 11:04:15 GMT
I agree with everyone who says don't engage and pick your battles. Also once the meltdowns start (have they yet? ours started younger) - offer protein, give space, and talk AFTER the meltdown resolves. Just like toddlers, when they're in the midst of it, there's no reasoning with them. Walk away and wait for a calmer moment to offer a hug and discussion. (and yes, once the hormones level out, it'll get better) She definitely gets hangry! Sometimes that plays into it. We both need to make sure we're calm before we discuss anything. Thank you for the great advice!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 11:06:28 GMT
I don't care what they say.. just don't react. it is playing into their games to argue about respect in my book. they are just out to get you. now that my kids are adults they respect me. I didn't need it when they were young. if they don't do a chore, if it has to get done now, ask them if they want to do it or pay you $5 to do it. that's another approach. Thank you for the advice! Not reacting is definitely my weakness and is what I'll be working on!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 11:09:27 GMT
I agree with everyone, pick your battles. BUT - we were huge on having natural consequences. For example, DS1 would be an ass all day and then expect me to take him to xyz later that night. Nope. If you're an ass all day and no one wants to be around you, then I don't want to drive you anywhere. Behave like a human and sure, I will help you by driving you. Or if I would tell DS2 to do something and he didn't do it, I took that to mean he was telling me 'no' (whether or not he actually said the words 'no'). Thats fine, but when he'd come later and ask for permission to do something, I would tell him no. Sometimes I'd wait a week before telling him no. But he knew it was coming. Do what you're asked and we have no issues. Love natural consequences! I've done something similar to your first example. I do use them, but need to be more consistent, especially so I can respond to the behavior instead of reacting. Thank you for the advice!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 11:17:14 GMT
A little background first: I raised my son by myself after booting his father out before my son's first birthday. As he grew up, we started a tradition of talking about how he had changed during the prior year and what he could expect to change in the upcoming year including with his body and emotions. That discussion went along with the talk about additional responsibilities and privileges he would receive. He would get extra chores along with later bedtimes and higher allowance, etc. We talked about how his palate would develop and he would grow into liking foods that he did not like when younger. He looked so forward to these discussions. It was fun for him to look at how he was maturing and growing up into a man. There were plenty of times that I would not be quite ready for a requested privilege and would ask him to give me a chance to catch up. When he hit his early teens, this was things like staying out in the neighborhood hanging with his friends after dinner and going places with a group of kids. He was mature enough and totally ready, but sometimes I wasn't. Once in a while we would compromise until I was ready to give him the freedom he was needing. He would give up doing something and I would provide concessions until I felt comfortable letting go more. Having this background foundation of talking things over and letting him have some input really helped both of us to understand where the other was coming from and avoid some of the battles that I saw friends going through with their kids. When my son started to go through this negative attitude phase, I sat him down and explained that we could keep repeating the dance with him rolling his eyes and doing the dramatic sighs and treating me disrespectfully and I would then respond trying to correct him to get respect considerate behavior and it would ultimately end up with him being sent to his room for the remainder of the night sometimes having events taken away if it got really bad. I reminded him that he was going through some chemical changes that made him feel differently and act a bit rebellious, wanting to pull away from me and my rules and control over aspects of his life, which was perfectly normal. It was not, however, acceptable to treat me badly and act like a little jerk. And doing that never got him the freedom that he was seeking. We came up with the word "attitude-ectomy" for these times. When he would start in being a jerk, I would tell him he needed an attitude-ectomy to stop where things were headed before it went to the inevitable conclusion. He would stop in his tracks and turn around and leave the room. He would do whatever it took to get into a better mindset and then come back in with politeness and respect. Sure, he was faking it, but I didn't care. He was behaving better. Using this ploy got us through some pretty hairy times when he went through the early teen years. It gave us both a few seconds to think about what was really important regarding the circumstances and it cut our arguments down tremendously. You could explain to your daughter how her hormones were affecting her behavior and that while wanting to become independent was normal and appropriate, treating you poorly was not acceptable. If you think she would respond to a freezing and abrupt change of direction, give it a try. It truly worked wonders in our house. Oh, and there were times that I was PMSing and getting irrationally angry over something out of proportion and my son would tell me I needed an attitude-ectomy! He would always say "Respectfully, Mom, I think you need an attitude-ectomy" and it was said so politely that it made me realize I was being really hormonal. We usually ended up laughing which was better than where it was headed. I really think explaining things and acknowledging their quest for independence goes a long way toward a calmer environment. I love the word attitude-ectomy! And I love that your son has been able to use it back at you, too. I think this is something that dd would really respond positively to - especially if she's able to call me out on my once-a-month grouchiness! Thank you for the great advice!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 11:22:33 GMT
My youngest ds was like that from 13-15. At 15 he suddenly became this amazing person, so cooperative and very self aware. I was told that at 15 they become human. Don't know if it's true for everyone, but that was the case for us. Now he's a young adult and makes us very proud. She'll grow out of it. In the meantime, just don't put up w/it. She's testing you and also she's seeing your dh and you as the dumbest most controlling people on the planet. Yet, when she wants something she couldn't love you more. Again, you're the parents. Disrespect will not be tolerated. Set strong boundaries and learn to walk away when she's being snooty. Just as you step over a screaming toddler having a tantrum, you do the same w/a teenager. When she can't get a rise out of you then she'll shut up. If she's a march up to her room, door slammer then be grateful that she's not in the same room as you! They do grow up and become lovely people, but right now you just have to get through this phase. She is testing us for sure! And right now, DH is being the big softy which is not helping anything. Great reminder to set the boundaries! That will definitely help. I need to remember to walk away! That's what I did yesterday afternoon and it was great. It gave both of us space, and she actually came and apologized. Thank you for the great advice!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 11:26:15 GMT
Sorry, I'm the opposite. I've raised 4 girls and one gave us a run for our money. The one that have us a run, is doing wonderful and has actually stated she is thankful we where tough. Address that nasty snip right away. If you ignore it she will take it as you don't care and it will grow. If she snips at you, turn and say, we don't speak that way. Adjust your tone and try again, or excuse me apologize for the way you spoke to me. I'd sit down and have a family meeting. Address it straight on. Recently I've noticed that you've had a snotty tone with me when speaking. I'm not sure if you realize it, but words and the way they come out of your mouth have consequences. So moving forward you will correct your behavior and the way you speak to me. If you choose not to, there will be consequences. I'd lay some out, for example, I will address it as soon as it happens and you will have the chance to correct it and apologize. When I address it and you don't correct it or it continues, I will take your phone, I will take the TV,I will give you a chore to do on and on... just make sure you have some consequences laid out and you follow through on them. Ignoring it or choosing your Hill is not going to help, it's going to reinforce to her in her mind that it's OK to speak that way to you. It's only going to grow and allow her to do it to other. This is just my opinion amd everyone is going to raise their kids a diffrent way. My 16 year old got snippy the other day and I addressed it right away in the middle of a store. Let's just say she doesn't do it that often, but when she does you can see the look on her face, as she knows it's going to be addressed. I do too much for my kids to have them speak in an ill tone at me for any reason. I am their mother not their friend. "Try it again with respect" is what I started using. I like the family meeting and tying it to consequences. I think that would be helpful for her. Thank you for the great advice!
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Post by sleepingbooty on Jul 10, 2020 11:44:39 GMT
Not that you need any extra advice but I remember having my attitude moments as a teenager. What worked best for me was when my mother would just distance herself from me without making any type of scene or giving me some sort of silence treatment, just walking away and getting on with her own stuff. When I'd have calmed down, she would come back and quietly reassure me, telling me she understood it wasn't easy for me, before making it known that it's no fun for her to have me like that. It's a subtle but honest guilt trip. It worked. Tween and teenager hormones are rough on girls, too. We tend to expect girls to behave nicer than boys but it's kind of unfair. I remember being almost puzzled by those mood swings. I didn't grasp the extent of the hormonal impact. Fortunately, my mother didn't hold those moments against me although she still likes to tease me about them at times.  Good luck. Keep your cool. Let the moment pass and then gently explain without getting too lengthy about it. The message does get through eventually, I promise.
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 11:49:40 GMT
Not that you need any extra advice but I remember having my attitude moments as a teenager. What worked best for me was when my mother would just distance herself from me without making any type of scene or giving me some sort of silence treatment, just walking away and getting on with her own stuff. When I'd have calmed down, she would come back and quietly reassure me, telling me she understood it wasn't easy for me, before making it known that it's no fun for her to have me like that. It's a subtle but honest guilt trip. It worked. Tween and teenager hormones are rough on girls, too. We tend to expect girls to behave nicer than boys but it's kind of unfair. I remember being almost puzzled by those mood swings. I didn't grasp the extent of the hormonal impact. Fortunately, my mother didn't hold those moments against me although she still likes to tease me about them at times.  Good luck. Keep your cool. Let the moment pass and then gently explain without getting too lengthy about it. The message does get through eventually, I promise. I like that! Thank you! And thank you for the reminder not to make it too lengthy - I do tend to talk too much!
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Post by Linda on Jul 10, 2020 14:25:48 GMT
She is perfectly happy to “help” in the sense that she watches me do it. Nope, I will help but if she is going to watch and not help, I’m out. I know, I sound TOTALLY childish but I’m not about to do a job she is physically capable of lending a hand to. oh yeah, I'm familiar with that "watching you work" - nope, you're working too and we're doing this together.
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Post by 950nancy on Jul 10, 2020 14:38:13 GMT
Agree with pick your hills. One of my hills was a smart mouth. I just didn't tolerate it. What worked for me was giving chores to do. Every time that smart mouth kicked in while doing the chore, another would be added, just boring stuff. Rinse, lather, repeat. A sink full of dirty dishes will do wonders for a sassy teen! Gives them time to think and sort through their emotions. So will polishing the silver! Meanwhile, just keep telling yourself that this too shall pass. They tend to become human again around 25 yrs. old. I’m serious in my asking of this... what do you do when they refuse to do the chores? She refuses to do chores and gets sent to her room for time out. The chore is still waiting when she’s done with the time out. She does NOT deescalate so the battle continues after the time out. We JUST started with a therapist when everything shut down. Sigh. It’s SO bad here right now! My dd (Almost 9) hasn’t seen her iPad since the middle of June because her room is a TOTAL sty. Like, bad. Clean clothes, dirty clothes, toys, HUGE mess. She absolutely refuses to clean it. My friend took everything our of her son's room except the clothes he was wearing and a mattress. He had to earn them all back slowly. She took off the door to his room also. He was also 16 and she was really fearful for her life at the time. It was extreme and I don't know if I could have done it, but he did slowly earn stuff back. He just graduated from boot camp last month and has finally grown out of the defiant behavior at 22. Some kids just don't fit the mold, that is for sure.
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artbabe
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,844
Jun 26, 2014 1:59:10 GMT
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Post by artbabe on Jul 10, 2020 14:54:56 GMT
I've taught 12 year olds for 26 years. I think everyone is giving you great advice- pick your battles and don't react when they try to pick a fight with you. Middle school kids love to escalate situations, don't let them. Talk with them and give them consequences after they have calmed down and put the attitude away.
I love how receptive you are to what people are saying. A lot of time people ask questions on here and don't really want to listen to advice.
I love middle school kids. They are a mess but they also have so many good qualities. I love the 1/2 child, 1/2 young adult aspect of them. I've thought about teaching other grades just because I've been doing this for so long but I always end up staying because I think middle school kids are pretty special. That doesn't mean I don't come home and bang my head against the wall sometimes.
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Post by FrozenPea on Jul 10, 2020 15:54:04 GMT
Btdt 3x and survived!
Don't react. Hardest thing ever.
My pediatrician told us they do this to test boundaries and only do it at home because they feel safe. So hard to remember in the moment!
Hugs!
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SabrinaP
Pearl Clutcher
Busy Teacher Pea
Posts: 4,467
Location: Dallas Texas
Jun 26, 2014 12:16:22 GMT
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Post by SabrinaP on Jul 10, 2020 16:06:24 GMT
I agree with the the others to pick your battle. I ignore eye rolls and sighs mostly and focus on disrespectful words and tone and facial expressions.
When my own kids or my students (I teach 6th grade) have a disrespectful tone, I just gently remind them to watch their tone. Often kids just don’t realize how they sound.
If they have an expression on their face that is disrespectful, I remind them to watch their face. I often tell my kids that one of my biggest faults is that when I’m upset it shows all over my face and I have to remind myself to watch my face. I often tell the story of how my 6th grade teacher pulled me into the hall because I rolled my eyes about something she said. Kids love to hear how their teacher got in trouble in school!
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Post by bdhudak on Jul 10, 2020 16:07:24 GMT
I always just reminded them this is the family area of the house we talk respectfully to each other here and to take their attitudes to their own room. That they can be as mad as they want there.
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 17:09:28 GMT
I've taught 12 year olds for 26 years. I think everyone is giving you great advice- pick your battles and don't react when they try to pick a fight with you. Middle school kids love to escalate situations, don't let them. Talk with them and give them consequences after they have calmed down and put the attitude away. I love how receptive you are to what people are saying. A lot of time people ask questions on here and don't really want to listen to advice. I love middle school kids. They are a mess but they also have so many good qualities. I love the 1/2 child, 1/2 young adult aspect of them. I've thought about teaching other grades just because I've been doing this for so long but I always end up staying because I think middle school kids are pretty special. That doesn't mean I don't come home and bang my head against the wall sometimes. Thank you so much! One of my short term goals is to stop engaging. DD and I had a good conversation about yesterday and we've come up with a few things to try thanks to the great pea advice!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 17:09:59 GMT
Btdt 3x and survived! Don't react. Hardest thing ever. My pediatrician told us they do this to test boundaries and only do it at home because they feel safe. So hard to remember in the moment! Hugs! So hard to remember! But I'm working on that!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 17:12:13 GMT
I agree with the the others to pick your battle. I ignore eye rolls and sighs mostly and focus on disrespectful words and tone and facial expressions. When my own kids or my students (I teach 6th grade) have a disrespectful tone, I just gently remind them to watch their tone. Often kids just don’t realize how they sound. If they have an expression on their face that is disrespectful, I remind them to watch their face. I often tell my kids that one of my biggest faults is that when I’m upset it shows all over my face and I have to remind myself to watch my face. I often tell the story of how my 6th grade teacher pulled me into the hall because I rolled my eyes about something she said. Kids love to hear how their teacher got in trouble in school! I didn't think about that! I know I wear my frustration! I'm sure I sound like it, too. Thank you for the great reminder to check myself, too!
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 10, 2020 17:12:42 GMT
I always just reminded them this is the family area of the house we talk respectfully to each other here and to take their attitudes to their own room. That they can be as mad as they want there. Yes! Great reminder - thank you!
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Post by silverlining on Jul 10, 2020 21:23:35 GMT
I read some great advice years ago. I can't say I always remembered it, but I tried.
When dd was disrespectful and I started to lose my cool, I tried to count to 3, and then tell her I needed a little break because I was feeling upset and didn't want to react out of anger.
It helps because it de-escalates the situation and also shows the kid that you have feelings too and that taking time by yourself helps you to calm down.
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smcast
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,509
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
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Post by smcast on Jul 10, 2020 21:35:26 GMT
My dd (17 in a week) can be a little short and snippy when she's tired. I let that slide. I quickly tell her to watch her mouth and keep it shut if she says something disrespectful or nasty. She usually reels it in and is very quiet after that. I give her space. My dd does not bare her soul and gets real tight lipped if I ask her 20 questions. She knows I'm there if she needs me. This usually happens after shes been around her father and step mother too long. Different rules at my house. As long as you nip it in bud and don't fan flames, it'll be ok. I fed into my dd's easiness when she was a toddler. I was also going through rough marriage and then divorce. When I'm tired, I need to be more patient. Once I figured that out, things go much better.
ETA: I've always apologized when I've lost it or acted irrationally. I own it. I don't apologize for yelling when necessary though. We all have bad days. Can't expect kids to be perfect when we aren't.
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 11, 2020 0:07:33 GMT
I read some great advice years ago. I can't say I always remembered it, but I tried. When dd was disrespectful and I started to lose my cool, I tried to count to 3, and then tell her I needed a little break because I was feeling upset and didn't want to react out of anger. It helps because it de-escalates the situation and also shows the kid that you have feelings too and that taking time by yourself helps you to calm down. I did this exact thing yesterday. Not as gracefully as it should have been, but it definitely helped both of us.
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 11, 2020 0:08:58 GMT
My dd (17 in a week) can be a little short and snippy when she's tired. I let that slide. I quickly tell her to watch her mouth and keep it shut if she says something disrespectful or nasty. She usually reels it in and is very quiet after that. I give her space. My dd does not bare her soul and gets real tight lipped if I ask her 20 questions. She knows I'm there if she needs me. This usually happens after shes been around her father and step mother too long. Different rules at my house. As long as you nip it in bud and don't fan flames, it'll be ok. I fed into my dd's easiness when she was a toddler. I was also going through rough marriage and then divorce. When I'm tired, I need to be more patient. Once I figured that out, things go much better. ETA: I've always apologized when I've lost it or acted irrationally. I own it. I don't apologize for yelling when necessary though. We all have bad days. Can't expect kids to be perfect when we aren't. I lost my cool yesterday, and apologized later when we both calmed down. Definitely so important!
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Post by camanddanismom on Jul 11, 2020 4:09:07 GMT
As a mother of a 15 year old dd... Is she trying to pick a fight so she can stomp up to her room and feel sorry for herself? Currently, mine picks apart my words when I ask her to do a chore so she can get away without doing it on a technicality. "You said put the dishes away, you didn't say to put them away in the cupboard where they actually belong." Hang in there, it gets even more fun... This is my 15yo dd. She was pretty miserable before Covid. She is currently completely disgusted with me because I won’t let her go sleepover at a friends house. She tells me I am the only mother who wont allow such things...
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Post by Jessica on Jul 11, 2020 4:13:31 GMT
I will say hang in there mamas, my sassy mouth gave my own mama lots of problems, and I proudly say that we are best friends now.
Although every once in a while I still fake yell at her and tell her "UGH, YOU'RE THE ABSOLUTE WOOOORRRRRSSSSSSTTTT" and we just laugh because we both know it wasn't true (but do not tell that to my 13-17 year old self).
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Post by *sprout* on Jul 11, 2020 14:49:54 GMT
I will say hang in there mamas, my sassy mouth gave my own mama lots of problems, and I proudly say that we are best friends now. Although every once in a while I still fake yell at her and tell her "UGH, YOU'RE THE ABSOLUTE WOOOORRRRRSSSSSSTTTT" and we just laugh because we both know it wasn't true (but do not tell that to my 13-17 year old self). I love how you and your mom are so close!
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