Are you more or less likely to vote Biden with Kamala as his

I would be remiss if I did not point out that if you don’t vote for Biden then you are voting for trump.  

Doesn’t matter if you vote third party, doesn’t matter if you write n someone’s name, it doesn’t matter if you stay home and twiddle your thumbs you will be voting for trump.  

It is extremely unfortunate that people can’t grasp that simple fact.

I didn’t get my dream team of Harris/Kennedy but I’m more then ok with Biden/Harris.

I won't erase it because I said it and I own it, but I apologize for the nasty tone of my last post.

I’d vote for Sarah Palin before I’d vote for Donald Trump. I’d vote for Kanye West. I literally can’t think of a living person on this planet I wouldn’t vote for rather than Trump.

Well, possibly Mitch McConnell. Because he’s evil AND competent.

Yes, but in Hillary's case, there is another relevant Clinton. I think referring her by first name generally gives her less respect than is given to the others referred to by last name. (Not implying your motive specifically, just in general).

If you don’t have any interest in reading an opposing view then don’t put forth a challenge.

Just now I started thinking about the Trump spawn.

P.S. Democrats and Republicans need to learn more about those of us who are moderates. Last election my Republican friends drove me nuts. I see that this election my Democrat friends will drive me nuts.

Y’all need to find a middle ground and at least try to understand each other’s views about the world.

This ‘us vs them’ is what will kill this country and there is plenty of blame to go around for both parties.

I think part of the disconnect is that others see "voting my conscience" very differently.  DH and I were talking about this tonight.  It's one thing to really want A.  But when the options are B or C.  And C is not just a difference of normal political opinion but a referendum on what is ethical, moral and strikes at the very heart of what our Republic is...  Is not voting for B: a demonstration of support for A?  Or a demonstration that being an *active participant* in the repudiation of C isn't of importance?

My conscience doesn't say that since I can't have A, choosing B somehow betrays or invalidates my support for A. My conscience says sometimes things are too big & important that it's not enough to support a result, while leaving it up to others to "do the work" in making sure that C doesn't win.  Sometimes you have to be an active participant on the field, against specific wrongs, and even if victory is assured, you need to run up the score to demonstrate how antithetical and unacceptable C is.  And for an election, the only active participation that counts is votes.  A more than 2-party system certainly is a valid political goal, but it presumes we *have* a Democratic Republic for a multi-party system to exist within.  It's easy to look at today, and say, "of course Trump loses."  But I don't think smarter people than Trump's team haven't been paying attention the last 20 years either.  They previously might have underestimated how easy it is to just ignore the Constitution, kneecap the Judiciary and paralyze Congress, but the one thing the idiots of this administration, and the pandemic, have revealed is how easy things we presume can fall apart.  The Constitution is only words, meaningless without the will of the people in power (not just "the people" like they teach in school) to enforce it, and it's been revealed how fragile that position is.

I don't think anyone thought our country would bring us to our current set of circumstances, yet here we are. I am over presuming that by, say 2028 we will have politically moved beyond these years of madness, because so many don't think it *has* been madness.  Because of the pandemic and the economic fallout, plus the geopolitical fallout from the US abdicating its role in global affairs, the next decade is going to rough, really rough.  Too rough for Biden and Democrats to fix in one term.  So then what becomes attractive to the citizenry?  A smarter, more charismatic version of Trump?  Like the virus, some things need to be smashed the moment it rears its head, and we've already become far too complacent because we presumed our democracy wouldn't let things go too far.  Preserving the basic Republic needs to be an active fight, now.  Not assume it will simply continue, so we can weigh the details of how it functions. 2020 should be revealing in how accurate Americans presumption of how situations will unfold.  Do we have the luxury of waiting for another election cycle, hoping people will have come to their senses and this era will be over and done?  Or do we need solidarity, this cycle?

For me, if I was going to place a bet in Vegas, at this point, long term, I'd put money on an effectively 1 party system in this country (this doesn't literally mean 1 party.  Russia technically has 6, and China has 8, but the effective result in governance), before I would put it on a functional 3 or multi-party system.  Up to a year or two ago, I would have thought anyone who would say that was out of their ever-loving mind.  We've got separation of powers, elections, rules about appointments, Constitutional definitions, something could stop it.  But now I have to ask, do we? Or only so long as the people in power play by rules we think exist, or we think will be enforced?  I am not confident in that answer.  Despite people waking up to Trump's character flaws and ineffective leadership, I'm not sure enough people are aghast enough at the *ideas*, that they wouldn't choose them again, wrapped up in more attractive packaging.  And I fear that sidetracking and splintering on the left, will make it all the easier, if a Biden Presidency is only a temporary plateau/reprieve, followed by a united right and the next iteration of Cheney -> Palin -> Trump -> ? 

Despite the insanity of these statements, I still feel compelled to say that our choice may not be one of "2 parties vs more parties," but the choice between "1 or not 1."  Even if the latter is not Nov 2020 immediate, but still soon vs never.

hopemax said:  


I agree. Sadly. Well said. 

A vote for a continued President Trump is a vote to continue this inexorable trend toward dismantling the country as we should know it.

Three (or more) major parties, although desirable, is a luxury I can’t even consider now as a motivation in my choice. (And yes, I’ve made that stand before with my vote in a presidential election.)

I live in Lexington!  The whole Thumb is plastered with Trump signs.  

@missjen - I always enjoy your posts and perspectives. 
I agree with a PP, that a vote for third party or write-in candidate IS a vote for Trump.  Please don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.  We really need everyone who does not want Trump to win a second term to support the Dems by voting for Biden/Harris.  Please think about it.

^^^ yeah, that.  And vote for one of the two major-party candidates, because, like hopemax explained VERY eloquently, one of those two people WILL be the winner.  This is not the time to 'make a point' about anything philosophical.   This is the time to vote to continue our Democratic Republic.  or not.  Period.

I see the point you all are making and I agree with much. However, I disagree with the concept that there's something (someone?) better waiting in 2024 or 2028. I really don't think there is. We're just going to get more of the same. Both parties have given us mediocre choices for years. So while I do understand the "wait til next time" argument, I also see the "try to stem the tide sooner than later" side of things. I'm not sure that waiting is going to behoove us either.