Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 15:18:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 16:26:03 GMT
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,461
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Sept 28, 2020 16:35:07 GMT
First thing this morning, I ran out to get a paper copy of the NYT. (also the Time special on RBG)
I have a chalkboard stand similar to what restaurants use for their daily specials menu. I've been changing both sides every day as my own little statement. There's a tweet for everything. Trump tweeted a complaint about Obama paying so little taxes in 2012. He also tweeted a shot, likely, staged with stacked of blank paper, signing his own returns in 2016. A neighbor knocked on our door, hugged my DH and kept thanking us for the sign. P.S. Anyone who makes those chalkboard signs look cool deserves an award. It's hard to write nicely on them without messing something up, much less to look artsy.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 15:18:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 17:12:01 GMT
"In a tour de force of hard won reporting, the New York Times has put numerical clothing on what we’ve known about President Donald Trump for decades — that, at best, he’s a haphazard businessman, human billboard and serial bankruptcy artist who gorges on debt he may have a hard time repaying. The Times, in a news story published Sunday evening that disclosed years of the president’s tax returns, also put a lot of clothing on things we didn’t know. Trump paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016, the year he was elected president, and the same amount the following year, when he entered the White House. In many years recently he hasn’t paid anything at all. He has played so fast and loose with the taxman that he’s entangled in an audit. He paid his daughter Ivanka lush consulting fees that he deducted as a business expense even though she helped him manage the Trump Organization. And he’s taken questionable tax write-offs on everything from getting his hair coifed to managing his personal residences. Step away from the tragicomic tawdriness and grift that the tax returns define, however, and focus on what they reveal about Trump as the most powerful man in the world and occupant of the Oval Office. Due to his indebtedness, his reliance on income from overseas and his refusal to authentically distance himself from his hodgepodge of business, Trump represents a profound national security threat – a threat that will only escalate if he’s re-elected. The tax returns also show the extent to which Trump has repeatedly betrayed the interests of many of the average Americans who elected him and remain his most loyal supporters." www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-09-28/trump-s-tax-returns-show-he-s-a-national-security-threat
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 15:18:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 17:28:32 GMT
"But Trump’s debts are even bigger than that, and he’s worked hard to keep them hidden for decades. Dan Alexander, a senior editor at Forbes, has been covering Trump’s business interests since 2016 and has a new book out about the president’s financial conflicts of interest, “White House Inc.” Alexander, in a helpful tally he shared Sunday evening, estimates Trump’s total indebtedness to be about $1.1 billion. Now that’s more like it. Trump has been bloviating about being worth $10 billion ever since he entered the 2016 presidential race, a figure that simply isn’t true. He’s worth a fraction of that amount, and the larger his indebtedness becomes, the more strain it puts on his assets. The Covid-19 pandemic has taken a particularly brutal toll on the sectors in which the Trump Organization operates — real estate, travel and leisure. If Trump is unable to meet his debt payments, he’s either going to have to sell assets or get bailed out by a friend with funds. Trump has never liked to sell anything, even when it’s hemorrhaging money. So if he’s tempted to save himself by getting a handout, that makes him a mark." www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-09-28/trump-s-tax-returns-show-he-s-a-national-security-threat
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 28, 2020 17:32:14 GMT
Taxes are for losers and suckers! Just like military service.
'Merica.
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Post by prapea on Sept 28, 2020 17:34:35 GMT
Question for those who know the law.
What he did is immoral but not illegal? So basically he used tax laws to avoid paying tax without having to get in trouble legally?
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2020 17:39:41 GMT
Question for those who know the law. What he did is immoral but not illegal? So basically he used tax laws to avoid paying tax without having to get in trouble legally? Tax avoidance is legal. We all do it. Trump took advantage of our tax code. BUT, the NYT piece also details some practices that point to tax evasion which is illegal. ETA: Let me add that NYT is not making any direct accusations of tax evasion. That’s why the title of their piece reads “tax avoidance.”
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 15:18:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 17:41:03 GMT
Taxes are for losers and suckers! Just like military service. 'Merica. You joke. But I truly believe that's how most of the 1% view both taxes and military service. Suckers and losers paying for suckers and losers - in their minds. While the 1$ reap the vast majority of the benefit of the middle class's taxes AND military service.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 15:18:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 17:44:06 GMT
Question for those who know the law. What he did is immoral but not illegal? So basically he used tax laws to avoid paying tax without having to get in trouble legally? Tax avoidance is legal. We all do it. Trump took advantage of our tax code. BUT, the NYT piece also details some practices that point to tax evasion which is illegal. Can you highlight which is evasion? I don't see anything particularly illegal in the NYT article. The only thing I see, maybe, is paying Ivanka as a "consultant" while she was an employee - thereby skirting her payroll taxes being paid out of the business for the business side of the payroll taxes. But if she paid all the appropriate 941 taxes, he just shifted the burden from the company to her personally. Is that incorrect? Or is there something else besides the shady Ivanka stuff?
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 28, 2020 17:45:16 GMT
Make no mistake though, this country is already paying for the hold and leverage that massive amount of foreign owned personal debt has on him. This administration really is built on a house of cards. thats why he said/did nothing about the russian bounties on US soldiers Yes. His hands were tied literally. If you think he’s working for the American people, or that he cares one iota about you and your life, you are very mistaken.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 28, 2020 17:48:10 GMT
Question for those who know the law. What he did is immoral but not illegal? So basically he used tax laws to avoid paying tax without having to get in trouble legally? I don’t think he only used existing loopholes, I think there is definitely fraud involved - like under claiming assets, overstating losses - stuff like that. We’re taking a narcissist with no moral compass here.
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Post by hop2 on Sept 28, 2020 17:55:08 GMT
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Post by sideways on Sept 28, 2020 17:58:55 GMT
The trumpers here sure are quiet. 😏
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 28, 2020 18:02:35 GMT
I was thinking the same thing. Where is dixiechick? Hiding?
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 28, 2020 18:05:30 GMT
The trumpers here sure are quiet. 😏 I assume Leone is busy bedazzling her golf cart with TrumpPence2020AmericaFlagsMoneyYeehaw and will provide thoughtful commentary when she returns 😂
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,503
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Sept 28, 2020 18:09:33 GMT
The trumpers here sure are quiet. 😏 They are just too stupid to understand all the big words in the article.
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Post by 5peanutsnana on Sept 28, 2020 18:15:06 GMT
The trumpers here sure are quiet. 😏 The silence is deafening.
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 28, 2020 18:15:33 GMT
The trumpers here sure are quiet. 😏 I assume Leone is busy bedazzling her golf cart with TrumpPence2020AmericaFlagsMoneyYeehaw and will provide thoughtful commentary when she returns 😂 😂🤣😂!!
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2020 18:18:39 GMT
Tax avoidance is legal. We all do it. Trump took advantage of our tax code. BUT, the NYT piece also details some practices that point to tax evasion which is illegal. Can you highlight which is evasion? I don't see anything particularly illegal in the NYT article. The only thing I see, maybe, is paying Ivanka as a "consultant" while she was an employee - thereby skirting her payroll taxes being paid out of the business for the business side of the payroll taxes. But if she paid all the appropriate 941 taxes, he just shifted the burden from the company to her personally. Is that incorrect? Or is there something else besides the shady Ivanka stuff? Tax avoidance is only legal insofar as the figures and circumstances upon which deductions and credits are based are true. If they are knowingly false, then that’s tax evasion. Not only did it lower his tax liability by falsely representing her services as a consultant (when she’s a salaried employee), but by doing what he did, he effectively gifted money to Ivanka, thereby evading the gift tax which has a limit of $15,000/year. " The I.R.S. has pursued civil penalties against some business owners who devised schemes to avoid taxes by paying exorbitant fees to related parties who were not in fact independent contractors." Also, re-read the section re the dispute concerning the $72M refund: " A partner who walks away from a business with nothing — what tax laws refer to as abandonment — can suddenly declare all the losses on the business that could not be used in prior years. But there are a few catches, including this: Abandonment is essentially an all-or-nothing proposition. If the I.R.S. learns that the owner received anything of value, the allowable losses are reduced to just $3,000 a year.
And Mr. Trump does appear to have received something. When the casino bankruptcy concluded, he got 5 percent of the stock in the new company. The materials reviewed by The Times do not make clear whether Mr. Trump’s refund application reflected his public declaration of abandonment. If it did, that 5 percent could place his entire refund in question.
If the auditors ultimately disallow Mr. Trump’s $72.9 million federal refund, he will be forced to return that money with interest, and possibly penalties, a total that could exceed $100 million. He could also be ordered to return the state and local refunds based on the same claims." ETA: Z, also re-read the section about Seven Springs, as well as payments to Futerfas and Williams & Jensen (businesses cannot deduct legal fees paid to defend charges that arise from participation in a political campaign).
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Post by elaine on Sept 28, 2020 18:21:50 GMT
Tax avoidance is legal. We all do it. Trump took advantage of our tax code. BUT, the NYT piece also details some practices that point to tax evasion which is illegal. Can you highlight which is evasion? I don't see anything particularly illegal in the NYT article. The only thing I see, maybe, is paying Ivanka as a "consultant" while she was an employee - thereby skirting her payroll taxes being paid out of the business for the business side of the payroll taxes. But if she paid all the appropriate 941 taxes, he just shifted the burden from the company to her personally. Is that incorrect? Or is there something else besides the shady Ivanka stuff? It also was counted as a separate business expense, offsetting profits for tax purposes - not avoiding payroll taxes. This article talks about it in more depth: www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/28/daily-202-ivanka-trumps-consulting-fees-rick-gatess-book-underscore-depths-presidential-nepotism/
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,974
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Sept 28, 2020 18:48:25 GMT
Tax avoidance is legal. We all do it. Trump took advantage of our tax code. BUT, the NYT piece also details some practices that point to tax evasion which is illegal. Can you highlight which is evasion? I don't see anything particularly illegal in the NYT article. The only thing I see, maybe, is paying Ivanka as a "consultant" while she was an employee - thereby skirting her payroll taxes being paid out of the business for the business side of the payroll taxes. But if she paid all the appropriate 941 taxes, he just shifted the burden from the company to her personally. Is that incorrect? Or is there something else besides the shady Ivanka stuff? Trump took received a $72 million refund that is under audit because he claimed a real estate loss that might not be legit (at least I think this event is the basis for the refund). I believe he may have been in bankruptcy at the time. In any case, the loss he claimed required that he could not retain any interest in the property after the transaction in question, and he claimed no ownership in order to get the refund. However, later disclosures showed he retained a 5% interest in the property, which means the deduction was improper. If the audit decision goes against him, he owes back the amount of the deduction plus interest. The loss he claimed that led to paying no taxes for several years took place a long time ago—almost $1 billion worth of loss. It isn’t a stretch to believe that there might have been some incorrect information filed that would cause the IRS to come after repayment for those deductions. There are specific rules that apply to (1) claiming the loss and (2) carrying it forward, and if he made any “intentional misrepresentations” on his return regarding that loss and those deductions, it would be tax fraud. “But it was 20 years ago!” his supporters say. “The IRS can only go back 7 years, so who cares?” they say. Ahhhhhh, but in the case of tax fraud, there is no statute of limitations, except in very limited circumstances. My guess is that he did not want this information out there because if someone goes digging through it for misrepresentations (like the Times did for the Ivanka payments), the IRS will go after him for repayment. So maybe he can just resign and get Pence to pardon him, right? First of all, tax fraud can be both civil and criminal. While Pence might be able to pardon him for the criminal offense (which carries a penalty of prison and/or fine), I don’t think he can for the civil one (i.e. the payment of back taxes, interest, and penalties for false filing). Every case I found regarding a pardon and taxes involved criminal liability and imprisonment, not civil penalties, and I found NOTHING that indicates a presidential pardon can excuse tax liability. However, there were articles stating that a pardon for a crime does not relieve one of all consequences and that civil penalties can still apply. So generally, unless a court rules otherwise, I don’t think Trump can get out of tax liability if he cheated, even if it was 20+ years ago, assuming the IRS decides to go after him for it. ETA: lizacreates said it better than me (as usual)!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 28, 2020 22:48:35 GMT
Question for those who know the law. What he did is immoral but not illegal? So basically he used tax laws to avoid paying tax without having to get in trouble legally? Tax avoidance is legal. We all do it. Trump took advantage of our tax code. BUT, the NYT piece also details some practices that point to tax evasion which is illegal. ETA: Let me add that NYT is not making any direct accusations of tax evasion. That’s why the title of their piece reads “tax avoidance.” I think the issue will come town to—did he devalue his property to avoid taxes, yet at the same time inflate the value to secure loans.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 28, 2020 22:50:48 GMT
Tax avoidance is legal. We all do it. Trump took advantage of our tax code. BUT, the NYT piece also details some practices that point to tax evasion which is illegal. ETA: Let me add that NYT is not making any direct accusations of tax evasion. That’s why the title of their piece reads “tax avoidance.” I think the issue will come town to—did he devalue his property to avoid taxes, yet at the same time inflate the value to secure loans. No it really doesn't. Accounting for tax purposes is ALWAYS different than valuation for loans and other purposes. There is nothing even remotely unethical about that aspect of his finances.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2020 23:04:05 GMT
On what have people been basing this? Because it takes a special kind of incompetence to bankrupt a casino. Twice. No clue but I have definitely seen it on this board and in real life. “I am voting for trump because he is not a politician. He is a businessman” or “I am voting for him because he must be doing something right to still have his businesses up and running” 🙄🙄🙄 I actually know people who believe he's a rich man and a good businessman on DT's own say so. Well, that and the 'part' he played in the TV show The Apprentice. using the proceeds of his celebrity to purchase and prop up risky businesses, then wielding their losses to avoid taxes. oh, and his cult followers will probably say he's SMART for doing this all these years. nevermind that he doesn't give a flying fu&k about any ONE of them.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Sept 28, 2020 23:23:00 GMT
lizacreates and twinsmomfla99 : Thank you for your smarty pants contributions. My knowledge of money and taxes is limited to spending and paying, so your explanations help.
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Post by pierogi on Sept 28, 2020 23:28:29 GMT
The trumpers here sure are quiet. 😏 I assume Leone is busy bedazzling her golf cart with TrumpPence2020AmericaFlagsMoneyYeehaw and will provide thoughtful commentary when she returns 😂 Aren't penis masks the new thing now to own teh libs?
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 29, 2020 0:05:02 GMT
lizacreates and twinsmomfla99 : Thank you for your smarty pants contributions. My knowledge of money and taxes is limited to spending and paying, so your explanations help. Kind as always. It’s disturbing, isn’t it? I mean, revelations like these should not come as a surprise anymore, but somehow I’m still stunned by some of them. There’s something that stuck in my head from before and I can no longer recall who said it, but it was in the context of how Donald, through his accountants, manipulates tax statutes. Something like: Whatever loophole there was, was not just exploited, but stretched beyond any recognition.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 29, 2020 0:37:08 GMT
I think the issue will come town to—did he devalue his property to avoid taxes, yet at the same time inflate the value to secure loans. No it really doesn't. Accounting for tax purposes is ALWAYS different than valuation for loans and other purposes. There is nothing even remotely unethical about that aspect of his finances. I’m sorry, I was thinking more than one thing and should have been clearer in what I meant— I didn’t mean the tax accounting parts—I meant his inflating the value to secure loans, that he falsified the values to obtain millions in loans. Bank fraud/wire fraud/conspiracy to commit fraud. I should have spelled out what I meant instead of typing on the fly.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 29, 2020 0:48:52 GMT
No it really doesn't. Accounting for tax purposes is ALWAYS different than valuation for loans and other purposes. There is nothing even remotely unethical about that aspect of his finances. I’m sorry, I was thinking more than one thing and should have been clearer in what I meant— I didn’t mean the tax accounting parts—I meant his inflating the value to secure loans, that he falsified the values to obtain millions in loans. Bank fraud/wire fraud/conspiracy to commit fraud. I should have spelled out what I meant instead of typing on the fly. Yes. That's precisely what Letitia James is investigating. Stay tuned.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 29, 2020 2:14:10 GMT
I’m sorry, I was thinking more than one thing and should have been clearer in what I meant— I didn’t mean the tax accounting parts—I meant his inflating the value to secure loans, that he falsified the values to obtain millions in loans. Bank fraud/wire fraud/conspiracy to commit fraud. I should have spelled out what I meant instead of typing on the fly. Yes. That's precisely what Letitia James is investigating. Stay tuned. This is what my brain was thinking of when I typed. My first response! Thank you!!!!
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