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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 15, 2020 14:43:15 GMT
If he had said “…back to the days of segregation…” I wouldn’t even blink. But to say “…back to the good old days of segregation…” well, it’s not often one hears of the violent and dehumanizing Jim Crow era that persisted until the mid-20th century being described as such. No wonder Jaime Harrison shot back with: “Good old days for who?” I just want to add that the ruling in the case Graham referenced here – Brown v Board of Education – was not enforced nationwide for ten years. The only time Thurgood Marshall actually saw any real sign of success was when Congress enacted the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And even then, the Act would be diluted over the decades by dribs and drabs by the Supreme Court all the way to the Roberts court. I bring this up only to make this point: It was a very, very long and painful journey for blacks. To facetiously use any part of that experience, regardless of benign intent, is not something blacks can just easily shrug off. I hope that gives another perspective for better understanding. Facetious. I think that’s the word I was looking for. And it’s a really stupid thing to be facetious about. Thank you for always bringing another dimension to these discussions. You are right, of course. And on reflection, I also think it could have been meant as a dog whistle to the Neanderthals, along with plausible deniability for the rest of us. So I guess I’m moving over into the “you’re an asshole, Lindsey” column. Oh wait, I was already there. This. He knew exactly what he was saying and planned to say it was sarcasm when called on it. It was absolutely a “dog whistle” to his racist supporters. To think anything else is just making excuses for another old, white, male racist. Period. When is the excuse making going to stop? When are these disgusting people going to be held accountable for their words and actions? |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 14:47:17 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 15, 2020 15:05:35 GMT
I think the sentiment shown in this thread is why America is America. It’s not working. The progress you think you’ve made isn’t progress. It stings to have it called out but people are dying while you try to quantify being a champion of something. If you are championing anti racist classrooms...you don’t have a passing grade. Be “vocal” as you work or hell be quiet. You’ve gotta be honest about the work that you do too though *shrugs* Such an unfair indictment of someone who’s an ally. When you asked for an account of actions and results, that IS asking for quantifying, and when she actually does provide, is stricken down having been found sorely wanting by you. By your yard stick, no one who has pursued righting some racial wrongs in their own way, in their own environment, measures up to your standard. By your estimation, it would seem you believe to be the only one capable of achieving true progress, and everyone else who puts in whatever effort they are capable of is dishonest and an utter failure. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 15:39:39 GMT
I think the sentiment shown in this thread is why America is America. It’s not working. The progress you think you’ve made isn’t progress. It stings to have it called out but people are dying while you try to quantify being a champion of something. If you are championing anti racist classrooms...you don’t have a passing grade. Be “vocal” as you work or hell be quiet. You’ve gotta be honest about the work that you do too though *shrugs* Such an unfair indictment of someone who’s an ally. When you asked for an account of actions and results, that IS asking for quantifying, and when she actually does provide, is stricken down having been found sorely wanting by you. By your yard stick, no one who has pursued righting some racial wrongs in their own way, in their own environment, measures up to your standard. By your estimation, it would seem you believe to be the only one capable of achieving true progress, and everyone else who puts in whatever effort they are capable of is dishonest and an utter failure. Unfair indictment? Hmm okay. If that’s what you gathered from what I said. All the best to you. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 15, 2020 15:43:52 GMT
I think the sentiment shown in this thread is why America is America. It’s not working. The progress you think you’ve made isn’t progress. It stings to have it called out but people are dying while you try to quantify being a champion of something. If you are championing anti racist classrooms...you don’t have a passing grade. Be “vocal” as you work or hell be quiet. You’ve gotta be honest about the work that you do too though *shrugs* Such an unfair indictment of someone who’s an ally. When you asked for an account of actions and results, that IS asking for quantifying, and when she actually does provide, is stricken down having been found sorely wanting by you. By your yard stick, no one who has pursued righting some racial wrongs in their own way, in their own environment, measures up to your standard. By your estimation, it would seem you believe to be the only one capable of achieving true progress, and everyone else who puts in whatever effort they are capable of is dishonest and an utter failure. Yep. I should have known better than to engage. As I expected, it was a bad-faith “gotcha” moment. Ask me to quantify and then demonize me for doing so. I’ll go back to respecting her wish for me to not give my input on her posts, and keep doing my own work here with people in real life. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 15:46:19 GMT
What you anticipate happening you actually invite. No? The standard isn’t set by Olan FYI. If I said I was championing stray dogs but over the years the problem worsened....someone should absolutely make me aware the problem hasn’t gotten any better. Even the word “champion” puts you in the mind of progress. I don’t know why the concept of Anti-racist progress is such a hard one to grasp. In the same thread where people are excusing the nostalgia of Jim Crowe no less. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 15:48:49 GMT
Such an unfair indictment of someone who’s an ally. When you asked for an account of actions and results, that IS asking for quantifying, and when she actually does provide, is stricken down having been found sorely wanting by you. By your yard stick, no one who has pursued righting some racial wrongs in their own way, in their own environment, measures up to your standard. By your estimation, it would seem you believe to be the only one capable of achieving true progress, and everyone else who puts in whatever effort they are capable of is dishonest and an utter failure. Yep. I should have known better than to engage. I’ll go back to respecting her wish for me to not give my input on her posts. This isn’t my post. And be sure quote where I’ve said hey “ Merge the educator please don’t weigh in on the topics I bring to the board.” I try to take the personal nature out of my posts. I’m not saying I am a champion of this by any means😉but please know there isn’t always this “gotcha” theme to my questions. Also note I fully expect to not be heard here so it’s no skin off my nose when you decide to dig in and continue treating me the way you have for the last 5 or so years I’ve been “vocal” about black issues |
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Post by Merge on Oct 15, 2020 15:49:07 GMT
The standard isn’t set my Olan FYI. If I said I was championing stray dogs but over the years the problem worsened....someone should absolutely make me aware the problem hasn’t gotten any better. Even the word “champion” puts you in the mind of progress. I don’t know why the concept of Anti-racist progress is such a hard one to grasp. In the same thread where people are excusing the nostalgia of Jim Crowe no less. No, I haven’t singlehandedly changed the word and, fun fact, neither have you. Perhaps you could go back to go ignoring me as well. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 15:51:57 GMT
The standard isn’t set my Olan FYI. If I said I was championing stray dogs but over the years the problem worsened....someone should absolutely make me aware the problem hasn’t gotten any better. Even the word “champion” puts you in the mind of progress. I don’t know why the concept of Anti-racist progress is such a hard one to grasp. In the same thread where people are excusing the nostalgia of Jim Crowe no less. No, I haven’t singlehandedly changed the word and, fun fact, neither have you. Perhaps you could go back to go ignoring me as well. Have a great rest of the week! Fun fact it’s not up to black women to fix this. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 15:57:23 GMT
FYI Not sure anyone expects white women change the world overnight but two things you could do to start:
The smugness...it’s not needed. Stop acting like you are bringing about change because we can see change hasn’t happened yet. I navigate this anti black world every day it’s a slap in the face when you act like the Rocky of Antiracist society.
The excusing of white men behaving like white men...stop that shit too. My ancestors died horrible deaths behind segregation. We are still dying.
This is bigger than your ego or desire to be seen a certain way.
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 15:59:54 GMT
Also don’t look to Black women to fix a damn thing. Words or the world. We are literally fighting for our lives. You benefit from it. You uphold it. You excuse it. You dismantle it. Seems fair right?
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Post by Merge on Oct 15, 2020 16:36:41 GMT
FYI Not sure anyone expects white women change the world overnight but two things you could do to start: The smugness...it’s not needed. Stop acting like you are bringing about change because we can see change hasn’t happened yet. I navigate this anti black world every day it’s a slap in the face when you act like the Rocky of Antiracist society. The excusing of white men behaving like white men...stop that shit too. My ancestors died horrible deaths behind segregation. We are still dying. This is bigger than your ego or desire to be seen a certain way. I’m sorry you felt I was excusing Lindsey. That was not my intention. I feel like there are plenty of unmistakable things to criticize him for, so when we focus on things that can be misconstrued, it gives the other side a reason to sidetrack the argument. Is Lindsey a racist? I believe so. Does he support horrible, harmful policies? You bet. Does he need to lose his seat and have his views consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong? Absolutely. Let’s focus on all of that. However, your attributing my statements - which you asked for - as a sign that I feel this is about my ego, or that I’m being smug, or that I’m “Rocky,” is not logical. One, you asked, and if I had just ignored you, I would have been called out for that, too. Two, you have no idea what my tone or attitude is through some words on a screen. Finally, you lied. You said that your question was asked sincerely, but when it was answered in the same way, you went on the attack. I don’t answer to you. I don’t answer to any stranger on the internet. I don’t care what you think of me. I don’t rely on black women to do my personal work for me or to change the world. Please go back to ignoring me as I would not want to take up one more second of your valuable time. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 19:59:32 GMT
I didn’t feel like you were excusing him. You did. And when I genuinely inquired about the work you and the other pea “champion” you assumed I was about to critique it. If I had not it would like sitting in a room full of LEO’s and letting them tell me the organization they are apart hasn’t harmed me or other Black people. Teachers are racist AF. That’s a fact. The research suggests it. The money these non profits spend on conferences to right the wrongs in classrooms each day prove it. I can’t fathom why anyone would be bragging about how tirelessly they work...when it’s a failing ass system. I mean you could. And then get mad at me for pointing it out but again who does that harm?
The whole ignoring thing is petty AF but predictable AF. If I wanted to ignore you I could. If you wanted to ignore me you could have. Neither of us made those choices today. You of course made the choice to Get all huffy with a black woman who won’t coddle you and tell you the work you are doing is impactful when we know what we know. Be advised I’m fully aware there are impactful white women doing actual work....I guarantee none of them are online acting like Merge though. Excusing of racist thought that brought pain and harm to another group of people. Braggart. Flippant to black women. Ra-ra ing one another. Martyrs who champion “POC”. You know true allies who don’t deserve the type of “indictment” I levied... ha really but what the hell do I know.
Listen to Black women. Amplify the voices of Black women.
Easy peasy to either call out white men when they are spewing hurtful nonsense or say nothing at all. Maybe I’m missing something
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 20:09:08 GMT
Do note if this was a thread about impactful teachers and Merge talked about the work she “champions” I would have thanked her for her hard work and not given it another thought. But this is a thread about a racist ass white man and a woman who is all like “Wait I don’t think he meant it like that”. Context. And me thanking her for the work she does still wouldn’t change the fact that Black children are being harmed in classrooms as we go back and forth. Like right now. Racist ass system doing exactly what it’s meant to do. And the women you make it possible 🤷🏾♀️ Be careful of declaring yourself an ally. Don’t wait for me to hand you the badge because we all know allyship is a human shield for Olan. But one thing I do know is an ally wouldn’t have dared commented the way Merge did. Quiet and thought it maybe but vocally supporting Graham? Nah! Wait for someone to tell you, you are a good ally. Better yet just be the embodiment of allyship without the need for acknowledgement. This is the work you OUGHTA be doing. It’s a long time coming. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 15, 2020 20:39:55 GMT
Such an unfair indictment of someone who’s an ally. When you asked for an account of actions and results, that IS asking for quantifying, and when she actually does provide, is stricken down having been found sorely wanting by you. By your yard stick, no one who has pursued righting some racial wrongs in their own way, in their own environment, measures up to your standard. By your estimation, it would seem you believe to be the only one capable of achieving true progress, and everyone else who puts in whatever effort they are capable of is dishonest and an utter failure. Unfair indictment? Hmm okay. If that’s what you gathered from what I said. All the best to you. She’s not the only one. I get it. You think white women suck, don’t do enough, when they do anything they’re wrong, and when they respond to your inquiry as to what it is white women ARE doing, it’s really just a way for you to lay in wait to respond to cut their work down. Because that is what always happens. Not all white women are just going through motions of all talk and no action. There are true allies right here, but you don’t care. It’s clear you don’t want friends here. It’s clear that you detest white women. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 15, 2020 20:49:30 GMT
I didn’t feel like you were excusing him. You did. And when I genuinely inquired about the work you and the other pea “champion” you assumed I was about to critique it. If I had not it would like sitting in a room full of LEO’s and letting them tell me the organization they are apart hasn’t harmed me or other Black people. Teachers are racist AF. That’s a fact. The research suggests it. The money these non profits spend on conferences to right the wrongs in classrooms each day prove it. I can’t fathom why anyone would be bragging about how tirelessly they work...when it’s a failing ass system. I mean you could. And then get mad at me for pointing it out but again who does that harm? The whole ignoring thing is petty AF but predictable AF. If I wanted to ignore you I could. If you wanted to ignore me you could have. Neither of us made those choices today. You of course made the choice to Get all huffy with a black woman who won’t coddle you and tell you the work you are doing is impactful when we know what we know. Be advised I’m fully aware there are impactful white women doing actual work....I guarantee none of them are online acting like Merge though. Excusing of racist thought that brought pain and harm to another group of people. Braggart. Flippant to black women. Ra-ra ing one another. Martyrs who champion “POC”. You know true allies who don’t deserve the type of “indictment” I levied... ha really but what the hell do I know. Listen to Black women. Amplify the voices of Black women. Easy peasy to either call out white men when they are spewing hurtful nonsense or say nothing at all. Maybe I’m missing something I’m flippant to everyone. You’re not special in that regard. Peace out. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 20:51:09 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 15, 2020 21:11:16 GMT
FYI Not sure anyone expects white women change the world overnight but two things you could do to start: The smugness...it’s not needed. Stop acting like you are bringing about change because we can see change hasn’t happened yet. I navigate this anti black world every day it’s a slap in the face when you act like the Rocky of Antiracist society. The excusing of white men behaving like white men...stop that shit too. My ancestors died horrible deaths behind segregation. We are still dying. This is bigger than your ego or desire to be seen a certain way. Act like the Rocky of Antiracist society? Smugness? Ego? You’re the one who’s been smug in this thread. If anyone has been egotistical, it’s been you. You say the standard isn’t set by you, yet you impose a standard here by which you determine that one’s anti-racist actions are merely ostensible and fall far below your expectations. Who are you to demand an accounting of actions and results on a message board? Who are you to grade, undermine and mock the efforts of others who recognize the racism and are doing what they can to be part of the solution? Because you’re a black woman navigating an anti-black world every day, and therefore must be the arbiter of what should and should not be deemed acceptable? I’m nearing seventy, a black woman who’s been navigating the same world far, far longer than you have, and a black man’s mother who’s acutely aware of the perils his skin color invites, and even I find your baiting, denunciations and mockery (toward me as well) offensive and unwarranted. Or maybe you’d like to school this old black woman on how ill-informed she is of the black plight? You weren’t sincere in your question; you were baiting. That’s why I answered you the way I did. Merge should not have answered your questions at all and I don’t really know why she was compelled to. You’re demanding fairness that you yourself do not want to give to those who are already stridently vocal against racism and actually doing what they can to help. You’re not exempt from that same demand of fairness just because you’re black. Your blackness does not excuse you for behaving like a jerk. If your goal is to spur allies to do much more, your effort is being hampered by your moral preening and your own conceit. If you believe yourself to be the voice of authority on these matters, as you obviously do, what purpose is there to your asking questions of others and then slapping them in their faces when they do answer? You might as well just not ask questions and rely solely on yourself to provide the satisfaction no one here is considered by you good enough to provide. If you want to regard my post as proof of your victimization, have at it. Bookmark it, link to it, pull it out as many times as you wish to prove whatever it is you want to prove. But don’t wonder why some people choose to ignore you. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 21:20:02 GMT
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Post by Merge on Oct 15, 2020 21:22:00 GMT
FYI Not sure anyone expects white women change the world overnight but two things you could do to start: The smugness...it’s not needed. Stop acting like you are bringing about change because we can see change hasn’t happened yet. I navigate this anti black world every day it’s a slap in the face when you act like the Rocky of Antiracist society. The excusing of white men behaving like white men...stop that shit too. My ancestors died horrible deaths behind segregation. We are still dying. This is bigger than your ego or desire to be seen a certain way. Act like the Rocky of Antiracist society? Smugness? Ego? You’re the one who’s been smug in this thread. If anyone has been egotistical, it’s been you. You say the standard isn’t set by you, yet you impose a standard here by which you determine that one’s anti-racist actions are merely ostensible and fall far below your expectations. Who are you to demand an accounting of actions and results on a message board? Who are you to grade, undermine and mock the efforts of others who recognize the racism and are doing what they can to be part of the solution? Because you’re a black woman navigating an anti-black world every day, and therefore must be the arbiter of what should and should not be deemed acceptable? I’m nearing seventy, a black woman who’s been navigating the same world far, far longer than you have, and a black man’s mother who’s acutely aware of the perils his skin color invites, and even I find your baiting, denunciations and mockery (toward me as well) offensive and unwarranted. Or maybe you’d like to school this old black woman on how ill-informed she is of the black plight? You weren’t sincere in your question; you were baiting. That’s why I answered you the way I did. Merge should not have answered your questions at all and I don’t really know why she was compelled to. You’re demanding fairness that you yourself do not want to give to those who are already stridently vocal against racism and actually doing what they can to help. You’re not exempt from that same demand of fairness just because you’re black. Your blackness does not excuse you for behaving like a jerk. If your goal is to spur allies to do much more, your effort is being hampered by your moral preening and your own conceit. If you believe yourself to be the voice of authority on these matters, as you obviously do, what purpose is there to your asking questions of others and then slapping them in their faces when they do answer? You might as well just not ask questions and rely solely on yourself to provide the satisfaction no one here is considered by you good enough to provide. If you want to regard my post as proof of your victimization, have at it. Bookmark it, link to it, pull it out as many times as you wish to prove whatever it is you want to prove. But don’t wonder why some people choose to ignore you. I am awestruck. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 16, 2020 1:36:28 GMT
FYI Not sure anyone expects white women change the world overnight but two things you could do to start: The smugness...it’s not needed. Stop acting like you are bringing about change because we can see change hasn’t happened yet. I navigate this anti black world every day it’s a slap in the face when you act like the Rocky of Antiracist society. The excusing of white men behaving like white men...stop that shit too. My ancestors died horrible deaths behind segregation. We are still dying. This is bigger than your ego or desire to be seen a certain way. Act like the Rocky of Antiracist society? Smugness? Ego? You’re the one who’s been smug in this thread. If anyone has been egotistical, it’s been you. You say the standard isn’t set by you, yet you impose a standard here by which you determine that one’s anti-racist actions are merely ostensible and fall far below your expectations. Who are you to demand an accounting of actions and results on a message board? Who are you to grade, undermine and mock the efforts of others who recognize the racism and are doing what they can to be part of the solution? Because you’re a black woman navigating an anti-black world every day, and therefore must be the arbiter of what should and should not be deemed acceptable? I’m nearing seventy, a black woman who’s been navigating the same world far, far longer than you have, and a black man’s mother who’s acutely aware of the perils his skin color invites, and even I find your baiting, denunciations and mockery (toward me as well) offensive and unwarranted. Or maybe you’d like to school this old black woman on how ill-informed she is of the black plight? You weren’t sincere in your question; you were baiting. That’s why I answered you the way I did. Merge should not have answered your questions at all and I don’t really know why she was compelled to. You’re demanding fairness that you yourself do not want to give to those who are already stridently vocal against racism and actually doing what they can to help. You’re not exempt from that same demand of fairness just because you’re black. Your blackness does not excuse you for behaving like a jerk. If your goal is to spur allies to do much more, your effort is being hampered by your moral preening and your own conceit. If you believe yourself to be the voice of authority on these matters, as you obviously do, what purpose is there to your asking questions of others and then slapping them in their faces when they do answer? You might as well just not ask questions and rely solely on yourself to provide the satisfaction no one here is considered by you good enough to provide. If you want to regard my post as proof of your victimization, have at it. Bookmark it, link to it, pull it out as many times as you wish to prove whatever it is you want to prove. But don’t wonder why some people choose to ignore you. You are awesome. 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌 You are awesome. 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌 You have the.best.words. This is just what I was trying to say upthread and after reading your post, i have seriously fallen short, you always know exactly how to write just the right thing. Thank you, thank you, thank you. |
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Post by J u l e e on Oct 16, 2020 3:12:56 GMT
FYI Not sure anyone expects white women change the world overnight but two things you could do to start: The smugness...it’s not needed. Stop acting like you are bringing about change because we can see change hasn’t happened yet. I navigate this anti black world every day it’s a slap in the face when you act like the Rocky of Antiracist society. The excusing of white men behaving like white men...stop that shit too. My ancestors died horrible deaths behind segregation. We are still dying. This is bigger than your ego or desire to be seen a certain way. Act like the Rocky of Antiracist society? Smugness? Ego? You’re the one who’s been smug in this thread. If anyone has been egotistical, it’s been you. You say the standard isn’t set by you, yet you impose a standard here by which you determine that one’s anti-racist actions are merely ostensible and fall far below your expectations. Who are you to demand an accounting of actions and results on a message board? Who are you to grade, undermine and mock the efforts of others who recognize the racism and are doing what they can to be part of the solution? Because you’re a black woman navigating an anti-black world every day, and therefore must be the arbiter of what should and should not be deemed acceptable? I’m nearing seventy, a black woman who’s been navigating the same world far, far longer than you have, and a black man’s mother who’s acutely aware of the perils his skin color invites, and even I find your baiting, denunciations and mockery (toward me as well) offensive and unwarranted. Or maybe you’d like to school this old black woman on how ill-informed she is of the black plight? You weren’t sincere in your question; you were baiting. That’s why I answered you the way I did. Merge should not have answered your questions at all and I don’t really know why she was compelled to. You’re demanding fairness that you yourself do not want to give to those who are already stridently vocal against racism and actually doing what they can to help. You’re not exempt from that same demand of fairness just because you’re black. Your blackness does not excuse you for behaving like a jerk. If your goal is to spur allies to do much more, your effort is being hampered by your moral preening and your own conceit. If you believe yourself to be the voice of authority on these matters, as you obviously do, what purpose is there to your asking questions of others and then slapping them in their faces when they do answer? You might as well just not ask questions and rely solely on yourself to provide the satisfaction no one here is considered by you good enough to provide. If you want to regard my post as proof of your victimization, have at it. Bookmark it, link to it, pull it out as many times as you wish to prove whatever it is you want to prove. But don’t wonder why some people choose to ignore you. Sincere appreciation. No one else could have said this. I have a personal rule to never post on threads that follow this pattern, but you have given me hope that we truly all are worthy to have a seat at the table. Thank you for extending it. |
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 16, 2020 13:36:32 GMT
Sincere appreciation. No one else could have said this. I have a personal rule to never post on threads that follow this pattern, but you have given me hope that we truly all are worthy to have a seat at the table. Thank you for extending it. Everyone who wants to help in the cause is worthy. I’m extending my arms in welcome. We need all the help we can get. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 16, 2020 13:47:53 GMT
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Post by Olan on Oct 16, 2020 13:56:47 GMT
Sincere appreciation. No one else could have said this. I have a personal rule to never post on threads that follow this pattern, but you have given me hope that we truly all are worthy to have a seat at the table. Thank you for extending it. Everyone who wants to help in the cause is worthy. I’m extending my arms in welcome. We need all the help we can get. I don’t disagree. I just don’t think we’ve got to lie to anyone about the progress that hasn’t actually happened or sit on our hands while white women excuse racist behaviors of white men. If you navigate racial tensions in a manner white women deem worthy of circling around and rewarding...that’s fine. But I don’t think it’s fair to me or the other black women who feel like I do to be demonized. I’d never set about doing that to another Black woman. No matter my age. And certainly not in mixed company. I took issue with the excusing of his behavior yesterday and I still do. I don’t think teachers or allies behave like that. Period. |
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Post by Olan on Oct 16, 2020 13:59:18 GMT
I mean they do. That’s why so many Americans are walking around with no knowledge of how horrible America treated its Black citizens.
Good teachers. Good allies. They aren’t excusing that type of commentary.
Also who generally refers to Black people simply as “blacks”....🧐
Interesting.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Oct 16, 2020 14:28:35 GMT
The only form of productive debate that people of color can engage in, it seems, is the gentle persuasion of white people who may or may not hold retrograde views. That advice is of course probably most appealing to white Americans, for whom the social cost of being called racist may loom larger than the effects of racism itself, or for whom the ideal of a functioning marketplace of civil ideas is more important than the worry that they might be carved out of it. White Americans share a vested interest in not being called racist, straight people in not being called homophobic, and men in not being called misogynistic. Arguments in favor of civility cede valuable rhetorical ground by default and coddle people who may well know the score about their own views. Skepticism should be a default position here; instead, the bigoted views of individuals are privileged as artifacts of ignorance, and thus not considered as purposeful efforts to sabotage debate. nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/12/liberal-infighting-racism.html |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Jun 30, 2022 17:28:23 GMT
Bumping so you can see how much excusing you’ve already done for racist politicians. It’s literally the same topics being rehashed and reframed. Some people even have the audacity to switch sides🤨
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Post by katiekaty on Jul 1, 2022 4:34:06 GMT
If he had said “…back to the days of segregation…” I wouldn’t even blink. But to say “…back to the good old days of segregation…” well, it’s not often one hears of the violent and dehumanizing Jim Crow era that persisted until the mid-20th century being described as such. No wonder Jaime Harrison shot back with: “Good old days for who?” I just want to add that the ruling in the case Graham referenced here – Brown v Board of Education – was not enforced nationwide for ten years. The only time Thurgood Marshall actually saw any real sign of success was when Congress enacted the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And even then, the Act would be diluted over the decades by dribs and drabs by the Supreme Court all the way to the Roberts court. I bring this up only to make this point: It was a very, very long and painful journey for blacks. To facetiously use any part of that experience, regardless of benign intent, is not something blacks can just easily shrug off. I hope that gives another perspective for better understanding. FWIW, public schools are still not desegregated. They’re not even “separate but equal.” Majority black and brown schools are criminally underfunded, and states like mine take it a step further by then taking their money and giving it to charter schools that prey on families who are desperate to help their children escape poverty, usually offering poor results in return. I don’t personally think that believing that Lindsey probably said something stupid without thinking *this time* discounts any of that. But YMMV. Yes, Texas is crap about taking money from one school district to give to another and then taking that away and giving it to the charter schools. We living in higher income/higher property value are and are are assessed enough taxes that more than pay for what the children needing the district to supply what the state funds, so the state takes money from here to supposedly pass and supplement the lower earning districts. But of course, they take much of that money away, which would improve those schools, and give it to charter schools in those districts because they are supposed to meet the the needs better than the under performing public schools in the district they just took from after “robbing from the coffers of archer district” to improve those under performing schools! Yeah, if you can understand that crazy paragraph, can you come talk to our legislators and have them stop what they are doing and let the money go to help the the kids that really need it? Charter schools here ain’t all that! |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Mar 3, 2023 16:09:04 GMT
Bumping so you can see how much excusing you’ve already done for racist politicians. It’s literally the same topics being rehashed and reframed. Some people even have the audacity to switch sides🤨 Again. I marked it old |
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