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Post by oliquig on Oct 14, 2020 16:45:33 GMT
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Post by Merge on Oct 14, 2020 16:48:56 GMT
I’m all for bashing Lindsey Graham, but I don’t think he meant it that way in this context.
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Post by oliquig on Oct 14, 2020 16:53:59 GMT
Yeah, but I’m squicked out by the fact that the sentence came out of his mouth at all.
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janeliz
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Post by janeliz on Oct 14, 2020 17:31:19 GMT
He says he was being sarcastic. The problem is, like most male Republicans, he’s really bad at sarcasm.
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amom23
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Post by amom23 on Oct 14, 2020 18:48:04 GMT
I’m all for bashing Lindsey Graham, but I don’t think he meant it that way in this context. I'm not so sure he didn't mean exactly what he said and how he said it. This is Lindsey Graham we are talking about here. |
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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 14, 2020 19:03:26 GMT
He meant every word of it but played it like it was sarcasm.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 19:30:04 GMT
Do you remember the time when we were taught professionally to avoid EVEN THE HINT of impropriety!?!
You'd think a F(#*$ing SENATOR would comport themselves w/dignity and not wax nostalgic about segregation, even as sarcasm.
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Post by lucyg on Oct 14, 2020 20:21:57 GMT
I don’t think he really meant anything by that. I guess it’s a form of sarcasm.  And yes, not appropriate for the Congressional record. Bottom line, whether he’s a closet proponent of segregation or not, he’s still a major-league asshole who is screwing up the world for the rest of us, and he. needs. to. go. bye. bye. Like, last week or sooner. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 14, 2020 20:26:22 GMT
I’m all for bashing Lindsey Graham, but I don’t think he meant it that way in this context. Classic defense. Why would they be moved to change when a woman always excuses or explains away their shit behavior? Who is it serving? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 14, 2020 20:26:36 GMT
Who is most harmed is the real question
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 14, 2020 20:27:14 GMT
I so hope that Graham loses his election. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻What a putz!
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 14, 2020 20:30:13 GMT
I don’t think he really meant anything by that. I guess it’s a form of sarcasm. And yes, not appropriate for the Congressional record. Bottom line, whether he’s a closet proponent of segregation or not, he’s still a major-league asshole who is screwing up the world for the rest of us, and he. needs. to. go. bye. bye. Like, last week or sooner. I agree that he probably did not mean it that way, but he’s from the South, for crying out loud. I suspect that all of the recent stints on Fox, begging for money have exhausted him. He looks rough. And he is a major asshole in a sea of assholes. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 14, 2020 20:39:26 GMT
I’m all for bashing Lindsey Graham, but I don’t think he meant it that way in this context. Classic defense. Why would they be moved to change when a woman always excuses or explains away their shit behavior? Who is it serving? I'm a very vocal critic of literally every Republican/conservative on the planet, here and elsewhere. I'm not explaining anything away. I'm concerned that we present ourselves as the side of reason and critical thinking rather than the party of foaming, knee-jerk reactionaries. I don't think anyone is served when we engage in gratuitous criticism. There is plenty of stuff Lindsey has actually said and meant the way it sounded, and stuff that he's voted for that harmed many people. Happy to heap on for any of that. Not willing to give Rs fuel for their "the left is unreasonable" party. Oh, and Lindsey isn't going to change, no matter what anyone says. |
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 14, 2020 20:56:07 GMT
If he had said “…back to the days of segregation…” I wouldn’t even blink. But to say “…back to the good old days of segregation…” well, it’s not often one hears of the violent and dehumanizing Jim Crow era that persisted until the mid-20th century being described as such. No wonder Jaime Harrison shot back with: “Good old days for who?”
I just want to add that the ruling in the case Graham referenced here – Brown v Board of Education – was not enforced nationwide for ten years. The only time Thurgood Marshall actually saw any real sign of success was when Congress enacted the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And even then, the Act would be diluted over the decades by dribs and drabs by the Supreme Court all the way to the Roberts court. I bring this up only to make this point: It was a very, very long and painful journey for blacks. To facetiously use any part of that experience, regardless of benign intent, is not something blacks can just easily shrug off.
I hope that gives another perspective for better understanding.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 14, 2020 20:59:57 GMT
I think he meant every word.
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Post by lucyg on Oct 14, 2020 23:34:20 GMT
If he had said “…back to the days of segregation…” I wouldn’t even blink. But to say “…back to the good old days of segregation…” well, it’s not often one hears of the violent and dehumanizing Jim Crow era that persisted until the mid-20th century being described as such. No wonder Jaime Harrison shot back with: “Good old days for who?” I just want to add that the ruling in the case Graham referenced here – Brown v Board of Education – was not enforced nationwide for ten years. The only time Thurgood Marshall actually saw any real sign of success was when Congress enacted the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And even then, the Act would be diluted over the decades by dribs and drabs by the Supreme Court all the way to the Roberts court. I bring this up only to make this point: It was a very, very long and painful journey for blacks. To facetiously use any part of that experience, regardless of benign intent, is not something blacks can just easily shrug off. I hope that gives another perspective for better understanding. Facetious. I think that’s the word I was looking for. And it’s a really stupid thing to be facetious about. Thank you for always bringing another dimension to these discussions. You are right, of course. And on reflection, I also think it could have been meant as a dog whistle to the Neanderthals, along with plausible deniability for the rest of us. So I guess I’m moving over into the “you’re an asshole, Lindsey” column. Oh wait, I was already there. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 14, 2020 23:40:58 GMT
If he had said “…back to the days of segregation…” I wouldn’t even blink. But to say “…back to the good old days of segregation…” well, it’s not often one hears of the violent and dehumanizing Jim Crow era that persisted until the mid-20th century being described as such. No wonder Jaime Harrison shot back with: “Good old days for who?” I just want to add that the ruling in the case Graham referenced here – Brown v Board of Education – was not enforced nationwide for ten years. The only time Thurgood Marshall actually saw any real sign of success was when Congress enacted the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And even then, the Act would be diluted over the decades by dribs and drabs by the Supreme Court all the way to the Roberts court. I bring this up only to make this point: It was a very, very long and painful journey for blacks. To facetiously use any part of that experience, regardless of benign intent, is not something blacks can just easily shrug off. I hope that gives another perspective for better understanding. FWIW, public schools are still not desegregated. They’re not even “separate but equal.” Majority black and brown schools are criminally underfunded, and states like mine take it a step further by then taking their money and giving it to charter schools that prey on families who are desperate to help their children escape poverty, usually offering poor results in return. I don’t personally think that believing that Lindsey probably said something stupid without thinking *this time* discounts any of that. But YMMV. |
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 15, 2020 0:09:28 GMT
Facetious. I think that’s the word I was looking for. And it’s a really stupid thing to be facetious about. Thank you for always bringing another dimension to these discussions. You are right, of course. And on reflection, I also think it could have been meant as a dog whistle to the Neanderthals, along with plausible deniability for the rest of us. So I guess I’m moving over into the “you’re an asshole, Lindsey” column. Oh wait, I was already there. Ah, Lucy…kind and understanding as always. (Said with no trace of facetiousness.) |
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 15, 2020 0:12:23 GMT
FWIW, public schools are still not desegregated. They’re not even “separate but equal.” Majority black and brown schools are criminally underfunded, and states like mine take it a step further by then taking their money and giving it to charter schools that prey on families who are desperate to help their children escape poverty, usually offering poor results in return. I don’t personally think that believing that Lindsey probably said something stupid without thinking *this time* discounts any of that. But YMMV. You're right that interpretation will vary, of course. Mine certainly did. Whatever difference there may be is not a poor reflection on either of us. You and I champion the same causes. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 15, 2020 0:31:46 GMT
If he had said “…back to the days of segregation…” I wouldn’t even blink. But to say “…back to the good old days of segregation…” well, it’s not often one hears of the violent and dehumanizing Jim Crow era that persisted until the mid-20th century being described as such. No wonder Jaime Harrison shot back with: “Good old days for who?” I just want to add that the ruling in the case Graham referenced here – Brown v Board of Education – was not enforced nationwide for ten years. The only time Thurgood Marshall actually saw any real sign of success was when Congress enacted the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And even then, the Act would be diluted over the decades by dribs and drabs by the Supreme Court all the way to the Roberts court. I bring this up only to make this point: It was a very, very long and painful journey for blacks. To facetiously use any part of that experience, regardless of benign intent, is not something blacks can just easily shrug off. I hope that gives another perspective for better understanding. Facetious. I think that’s the word I was looking for. And it’s a really stupid thing to be facetious about. Thank you for always bringing another dimension to these discussions. You are right, of course. And on reflection, I also think it could have been meant as a dog whistle to the Neanderthals, along with plausible deniability for the rest of us. So I guess I’m moving over into the “you’re an asshole, Lindsey” column. Oh wait, I was already there. “You’re an asshole, Lindsey Graham” reminds me of “You’re a mean one, Mr. Grinch.” I so needed a giggle.  |
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Post by Merge on Oct 15, 2020 12:12:35 GMT
If anyone’s interested, here’s video of Lindsey committing a federal crime on camera.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 12:44:09 GMT
FWIW, public schools are still not desegregated. They’re not even “separate but equal.” Majority black and brown schools are criminally underfunded, and states like mine take it a step further by then taking their money and giving it to charter schools that prey on families who are desperate to help their children escape poverty, usually offering poor results in return. I don’t personally think that believing that Lindsey probably said something stupid without thinking *this time* discounts any of that. But YMMV. You're right that interpretation will vary, of course. Mine certainly did. Whatever difference there may be is not a poor reflection on either of us. You and I champion the same causes. What causes? How do you champion them? What’s the result of that action? |
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Post by Merge on Oct 15, 2020 13:23:22 GMT
You're right that interpretation will vary, of course. Mine certainly did. Whatever difference there may be is not a poor reflection on either of us. You and I champion the same causes. What causes? How do you champion them? What’s the result of that action? I work and have worked for more than a decade in urban Title 1 public schools, advocating for them at the state and district level, and making sure the kids I serve get the best possible education I can give them. I work and advocate for pro-public-education candidates at the local, state and federal level. I work and campaign for candidates who show commitment to social and economic justice. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. I participate in anti-racist discussion groups led by POC on the topic of education, and have changed and continue to change the way I teach and interact with students and families based on what I learn. It's a process and I am well aware that I'm not perfect in this area. I keep learning and working. I teach my own children the core values of justice and equality for everyone, and have made sure they attend racially and economically diverse schools where they meet and learn to relate to all kinds of people as human beings. It's not enough, but it's what I'm able to do right now. The immediate outcome is that as I learn more, the more driven I am to work for these causes. I hope the long term outcome is a more just and peaceful world. Also, based on your history here, I'm answering you in the hope that your question was sincerely asked and meant to drive discussion, and not just an attempt to "gotcha" me and/or lizacreates by deciding we haven't done things the right way to suit you. I don't know you, don't know if you're who you say you are, and don't answer to you. I answer to the families I serve at school and my friends here who are POC, who are not afraid to call me out if I'm in the wrong. You told me several years ago that you didn't require my input on anything, and I have attempted to respect that by not interacting with you. You've called me out on this thread so I'm responding, but I won't engage in bad-faith "gotcha" attempts if that's what this turns out to be. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 13:25:16 GMT
What causes? How do you champion them? What’s the result of that action? I work and have worked for more than a decade in urban Title 1 public schools, advocating for them at the state and district level, and making sure the kids I serve get the best possible education I can give them. I work and advocate for pro-public-education candidates at the local, state and federal level. I work and campaign for candidates who show commitment to social and economic justice. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. I participate in anti-racist discussion groups led by POC on the topic of education, and have changed and continue to change the way I teach and interact with students and families based on what I learn. It's a process and I am well aware that I'm not perfect in this area. I keep learning and working. I teach my own children the core values of justice and equality for everyone, and have made sure they attend racially and economically diverse schools where they meet and learn to relate to all kinds of people as human beings. It's not enough, but it's what I'm able to do right now. Also, based on your history here, I'm answering you in the hope that your question was sincerely asked and meant to drive discussion, and not just an attempt to "gotcha" me and/or lizacreates by deciding we haven't done things the right way to suit you. I don't know you, don't know if you're who you say you are, and don't answer to you. I answer to the families I serve at school and my friends here who are POC, who are not afraid to call me out if I'm in the wrong. You told me several years ago that you didn't require my input on anything, and I have attempted to respect that by not interacting with you. You've called me out on this thread so I'm responding, but I won't engage in bad-faith "gotcha" attempts if that's what this turns out to be. My questions were genuine and I appreciate the time you took to respond. Edited to add: Notice you already have expectations about how I will respond before I even type it out and then get all flabbergasted when it’s what you welcomed. But I’m the pea who baits everyone eh? My response matched your energy. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 13:53:39 GMT
Our “TwoPeas History” again declaring herself an ally whilst behaving opposite Since most every pea jumped on the bandwagon and treated Olan in very much the same manner it’s difficult for me to put pea names and conflicts together. So excuse me if I don’t recall every row I’ve had and the pea name it coincides with. My sister helps teachers create more equitable classroom environments and the push back in her own organization is astounding. I truly am curious about the work that white women champion and what’s the “end game” so to speak. Especially as it relates to education...which I posted studies about 🧐 ] Of course no one wants to talk about how common racist practices are in the classroom. Or how much money is thrown at getting white women to treat black students like they do white students. Forget the racist leadership of these non profits!! It’s a running joke that each non profit dealing with equitable schools has at least one outwardly racist white women leading the “POC”. Please don’t let me stop you from being a classroom champion though. *backing away hands in the air* I’ve said several times LEOs and teachers are the professions we really need to focus this new “anti-racist” training on. And I’ve also said...you don’t have to like me or even agree with me to take the time to critically think about the topics I post. If you are REALLY working to be anti-racist amplifying the voices of Black people Especially black women is THEE best way. Try it sometime. 2peasrefugees.boards.net/thread/63682/girlhood-interrupted-erasure-black-girlswww.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-486167592peasrefugees.boards.net/thread/94431/dr-pepsi-teacher-bulliesRegarding my “history”: If you feel like it’s a “gotcha question” you are always welcome to continue ignoring me. Much like you did those threads about racism in the classroom.
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 15, 2020 14:06:06 GMT
You're right that interpretation will vary, of course. Mine certainly did. Whatever difference there may be is not a poor reflection on either of us. You and I champion the same causes. What causes? How do you champion them? What’s the result of that action? Democratic causes which include racial equity. Merge is a Democrat and a progressive who supports and defends them just as I do. As to actions and results, this is a message board. Everyone here is free to take a person’s word and level of sincerity and engagement at face value OR not. Either way, I, or anyone else for that matter, do not owe anybody on this board a catalogue of the actions I take in my private life so I can prove my support and advocacy bona fides, nor do I owe anyone a report card on the outcomes. If that is not satisfactory to some, that is not something I am inclined to remedy. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 14:08:42 GMT
What causes? How do you champion them? What’s the result of that action? Democratic causes which include racial equity. Merge is a Democrat and a progressive who supports and defends them just as I do. As to actions and results, this is a message board. Everyone here is free to take a person’s word and level of sincerity and engagement at face value OR not. Either way, I, or anyone else for that matter, do not owe anybody on this board a catalogue of the actions I take in my private life so I can prove my support and advocacy bona fides, nor do I owe anyone a report card on the outcomes. If that is not satisfactory to some, that is not something I am inclined to remedy. Fair. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 14:16:47 GMT
I think the sentiment shown in this thread is why America is America. It’s not working. The progress you think you’ve made isn’t progress. It stings to have it called out but people are dying while you try to quantify being a champion of something.
If you are championing anti racist classrooms...you don’t have a passing grade. Be “vocal” as you work or hell be quiet. You’ve gotta be honest about the work that you do too though *shrugs*
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 15, 2020 14:25:41 GMT
Since most every pea jumped on the bandwagon and treated Olan in very much the same manner it’s difficult for me to put pea names and conflicts together. So excuse me if I don’t recall every row I’ve had and the pea name it coincides with. My sister helps teachers create more equitable classroom environments and the push back in her own organization is astounding. I truly am curious about the work that white women champion and what’s the “end game” so to speak. Especially as it relates to education...which I posted studies about 🧐 ] Of course no one wants to talk about how common racist practices are in the classroom. Or how much money is thrown at getting white women to treat black students like they do white students. Forget the racist leadership of these non profits!! It’s a running joke that each non profit dealing with equitable schools has at least one outwardly racist white women leading the “POC”. Please don’t let me stop you from being a classroom champion though. *backing away hands in the air* I’ve said several times LEOs and teachers are the professions we really need to focus this new “anti-racist” training on. And I’ve also said...you don’t have to like me or even agree with me to take the time to critically think about the topics I post. If you are REALLY working to be anti-racist amplifying the voices of Black people Especially black women is THEE best way. Try it sometime. 2peasrefugees.boards.net/thread/63682/girlhood-interrupted-erasure-black-girlswww.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-486167592peasrefugees.boards.net/thread/94431/dr-pepsi-teacher-bulliesRegarding my “history”: If you feel like it’s a “gotcha question” you are always welcome to continue ignoring me. Much like you did those threads about racism in the classroom. You are your own worst enemy. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 15, 2020 14:27:11 GMT
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And yes, not appropriate for the Congressional record. 
