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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 15:36:47 GMT
What does anti-racist progress look like to you? To me, it looks like what I wrote above: bystanders becoming part of the solution rather than mute, unmoved onlookers tut-tutting and saying "That's a shame, what's for dinner." What does it look like to you? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 7, 2020 15:51:22 GMT
For me the start of anti-racism looks a lot like ownership. I don’t think any real progress can happen until we look at racism in a really practical no nonsense way. Facts, figures, solutions kind of plan. More often than not I think white people are more concerned with how they are viewed instead of actually tackling racism. Racism kills black people. Black babies. Black women. Black men. So when I hear someone say “well not all of us” it’s disheartening AF because even a couple racist still means dead Black people right? And again that response makes it more about how people will view AR and it’s white residents instead of the focus being on how tragic it is Black people still deal with this type of shit in neighborhoods they pay property taxes in. How many dead Black people is too many? How much suffering is enough? Anti-racism doesn’t look like this 2peasrefugees.boards.net/thread/117459/olan |
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Post by Olan on Dec 7, 2020 16:09:28 GMT
Sadly, this is just north of where I live. Like cecilia said, we are not all like that is AR. I love that the neighbors rallied around this family. May I respectfully ask: How much of Arkansas’ racial history are you familiar with? Do you think that level of racial violence just dissipated over time? The perpetrators of that violence what happened to them and their families? If you had to guess what percentage of Arkansas residents would self identify as racist? Rough numbers/guesses are expected. What percentage of residents won’t self identify but engage in harmful racist thoughts or behavior? Number of Black residents whose lives have been touched by racial violence? The percentage of black residents who have had: A loved one lynched or killed by police. Been called nigger. Made to feel unwelcome (burned crosses or HOA harassment). Denied employment opportunities. Treated poorly in a classroom. Received inadequate medical care. etc. What percentage of residents would have to identify as anti-racist in order for Black residents to report zero instances of racial violence or discrimination? What would that look like? FTR or FTS while a response is appreciated quiet introspection is also perfectly fine. |
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naby64
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Post by naby64 on Dec 7, 2020 17:26:32 GMT
Olan I'm sorry not to have gotten back sooner. I am sick in bed and just opened the board. TBH, I haven't looked into all the questions you asked. I live in the southern part of the state. I know there are plenty of identified and unidentified racists. I drive through areas that proudly fly their rebel flags. And Trump flags. I live in a town where I am in the 21% minority. I choose to live here. All I know is I can only work on me. For the past several years I have worked hard to show and tell people their words and actions are wrong, hurtful, dangerous. I'm in this for the long haul.This past year I have chosen to let go of friends who refuse to see the truth of what is going on. With the help of my DD, a dear friend in town and many posts on this board, I will continue to learn and grow. I hope that is enough for you.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 8, 2020 13:51:15 GMT
I’m glad you’ve been welcomed into a community where you are the minority. I’m guessing when you said “not all of AR” you were referring to those people. I just saw a meme that said “Have you ever been invited to a BBQ just because you like Nickleback” It was meant to make fun of the welcoming nature of Black people and the lack of reciprocity. I wanted to address this line: “I hope that’s enough for you” Going to address it like it was genuine and not tongue in cheek. Never worry if your activism is enough for Olan. I’m one black woman on a message board. One who has very concrete ideas about what activism looks like. One who belongs to an online Expat group and sees how much effort is put into rescuing Toucans and soliciting volunteers to fly stray dogs to their forever homes. One who thinks white people are too comfortable with how things are going/have gone. One who believes the shift to discomfort goes without saying. Especially since it would still be a more comfortable position than that of a black woman screaming “They are killing us, please make it stop”. One whose ego is smallish enough to know you shouldn’t give a damn what I think is enough if you know in your heart you are doing the righteous thing. 🤷🏾♀️ Some articles that anyone can refer to, to see if their activism is “enough”. medium.com/equality-includes-you/what-white-people-can-do-for-racial-justice-f2d18b0e0234medium.com/illumination/the-difference-between-performative-activism-and-genuine-allyship-c1071133d0e0nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/being-antiracist |
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Post by naby64 on Dec 8, 2020 14:06:36 GMT
Wasn't welcomed. Been here my whole life. As usual you pick and choose what to read. Like I said, I choose to stay in this little town. Working hard to bring it back. For every single person living here.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 8, 2020 14:32:14 GMT
I’m glad you’ve been welcomed into a community where you are the minority. I’m GUESSING when you said “not all of AR” you were referring to those people. Wasn't welcomed. Been here my whole life. As usual you pick and choose what to read. Like I said, I choose to stay in this little town. Working hard to bring it back. For every single person living here. As usual? Hmmm 👌🏿! I read 21% minority and then “I choose to live here.” I figured if you made the choice to stay it had to be a welcoming community. I also made the inference because black people don’t usually make their neighbors feel unwelcome. The cross burning HOA harassment, and redlining is RARELY our “thing”. It just isn’t. 🤷🏾♀️But I guess you’ve found the most unwelcoming community and decided to be the agent of change for ALL residents. That’s commendable. I asked about percentages when I was trying to get you to understand how problematic your “Not all AR” comment might be to black people. You were able to tell me what percentage you fell under but nothing else. But I’m the one who usually picks and chooses what to read 🤔 [br |
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Post by naby64 on Dec 8, 2020 14:41:27 GMT
Nothing I said was tongue in cheek. I find, as a white woman, it is very hard to have a conversation with you. Nothing I say seems right or right for you. In my eyes, you seem to pick and choose and tear apart anything anyone other than you says. I think if we could sit down on the couch and have a cup of coffee, tea, Coke, Pepsi, whatever, we might find there is some common ground between us.
My "choose to live here" statement is from my personal experience in this town. There has been so much white flight and general malaise in my town. I chose to stay and make it better. That is what I meant.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 14:46:29 GMT
From Olan's links Here is just one actionable idea from one of the links. Just one of over 100 actions to take to be anti-racist: Find out your city or town’s policy on no-knock warrants (the policy that led to Breonna Taylor’s murder). Contact your city or town government representative(s) and police chief to ban no-knock warrants I'm doing this one today. I'll do others in the coming weeks. ------ From the Smithsonian link: Being Antiracist at the Individual and Interpersonal Level When we choose to be antiracist, we become actively conscious about race and racism and take actions to end racial inequities in our daily lives. Being antiracist is believing that racism is everyone’s problem, and we all have a role to play in stopping it  |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 8, 2020 14:58:14 GMT
Even after you’ve addressed me with familiarity and TOLD me what I’m usually up to...I still don’t find it challenging to converse with you. Examine why this conversation is hard for you and see what you come up with🤷🏾♀️
Just because you don’t like what I have to say doesn’t mean I’m wrong or lack reading comprehension 😏
Your comment about “not all AR” comes from the performative spot a lot of activism comes from. How do people perceive me? What are the optics of this choice? A real how does my hair look kinda vibe.
As if we don’t already know how AR rolls?! Kinda insulting when you really think of it. Everyone Please consider NOT adding “well not all of us” the next time your state is being reported on. It’s dismissive. It’s hurtful. Especially if you live in a state with a history like AR.
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Post by Olan on Dec 8, 2020 14:59:14 GMT
Nothing I said was tongue in cheek. I find, as a white woman, it is very hard to have a conversation with you. Nothing I say seems right or right for you. In my eyes, you seem to pick and choose and tear apart anything anyone other than you says. I think if we could sit down on the couch and have a cup of coffee, tea, Coke, Pepsi, whatever, we might find there is some common ground between us. My "choose to live here" statement is from my personal experience in this town. There has been so much white flight and general malaise in my town. I chose to stay and make it better. That is what I meant. Scenario. You share with a male friend that you’ve been the victim of rape he immediately hugs you and says “well not all men”. How do you feel? Was his comment helpful to your healing? Are you still a rape survivor? We’ve already acknowledged how deadly racism is. Past and present. How much it hurt people. How hurtful it is to live in a country that elected 45. One who hasn’t really apologized for enslaving and harming my ancestors. Families changed by “yes my grandfather was lynched” or “my son was shot by the police” so when you say well not me it can not be viewed as anything but dismissive. Don’t stand behind that shit. You called out the capitalist pea worried about all the white Santas stuck on shelves why not lovingly correct this pea because you see what the hell happens when I do, don’t you? The I hope that’s enough for you. The jab at my cognitive abilities when she says some residents of Arkansas aren’t racist and unwelcoming and I make the logical inference she means the community SHE is apart wasn’t cool. You say you want to learn but when someone kindly points out where you’ve fucked up...that’s when the claws come out and of course I’m the bad guy who won’t have a Pepsi on the couch with you. A helpful ally ship trait is the ability to say hmm I can see why my comment is hurtful to someone who is the victim of racism I AM SORRY. Period. naby64 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 23:02:18 GMT
I just want to apologize to everyone. I am deeply sorry and regret my previous post. Words are not for hurting and I am sorry and sad that my words caused pain. I do not want to be a hurtful person. I was insensitive, my words were unkind and I was wrong on so many levels. I should have read more thoroughly and thought things through before posting. I deleted my post as I do if I have said something that hurts, offends or is controversial. I am a visual person, so if I keep seeing something that is hurtful it continues to fester. Perhaps I am the only one like that.
I have spent a lot of time since reading the Washington Post article and as many others as I could find, paying close attention to details. And I have been thinking a lot. I have concluded that being kind or friendly or sharing cookies is not the answer. They are not enough. That approach does not address the problem.
The more I read and think about this, the more I believe that putting up the Black Santa's was the right decision. Showing, not telling is far more effective plus it was an action opposite of the offense.
I couldn't imagine that I would be welcome here after making such a post, but I should have apologized first before deleting my account.
There are peas I will miss, especially ones whose posts made me think. I will miss being able to ask questions. I regretted deleting my account immediately. But my feelings are irrelevant. The important thing is for this place to be your happy place.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 8, 2020 23:14:17 GMT
I just want to apologize to everyone. I am deeply sorry and regret my previous post. Words are not for hurting and I am sorry and sad that my words caused pain. I do not want to be a hurtful person. I was insensitive, my words were unkind and I was wrong on so many levels. I should have read more thoroughly and thought things through before posting. I deleted my post as I do if I have said something that hurts, offends or is controversial. I am a visual person, so if I keep seeing something that is hurtful it continues to fester. Perhaps I am the only one like that. I have spent a lot of time since reading the Washington Post article and as many others as I could find, paying close attention to details. And I have been thinking a lot. I have concluded that being kind or friendly or sharing cookies is not the answer. They are not enough. That approach does not address the problem. The more I read and think about this, the more I believe that putting up the Black Santa's was the right decision. Showing, not telling is far more effective plus it was an action opposite of the offense. I couldn't imagine that I would be welcome here after making such a post, but I should have apologized first before deleting my account. There are peas I will miss, especially ones whose posts made me think. I will miss being able to ask questions. I regretted deleting my account immediately. But my feelings are irrelevant. The important thing is for this place to be your happy place. It takes a lot to come back and apologize. I appreciate it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 23:29:23 GMT
have spent a lot of time since reading the Washington Post article and as many others as I could find, paying close attention to details. And I have been thinking a lot. I have concluded that being kind or friendly or sharing cookies is not the answer. They are not enough. That approach does not address the problem. The more I read and think about this, the more I believe that putting up the Black Santa's was the right decision. Showing, not telling is far more effective plus it was an action opposite of the offense. I couldn't imagine that I would be welcome here after making such a post, but I should have apologized first before deleting my account. WOW. Thank you for coming back and for your feedback after thinking this over. AFAIC, You are very welcome here (as you were before - people wanted you to consider what you were saying - and you did just that). |
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Post by peano on Dec 9, 2020 1:01:57 GMT
I just want to apologize to everyone. I am deeply sorry and regret my previous post. Words are not for hurting and I am sorry and sad that my words caused pain. I do not want to be a hurtful person. I was insensitive, my words were unkind and I was wrong on so many levels. I should have read more thoroughly and thought things through before posting. I deleted my post as I do if I have said something that hurts, offends or is controversial. I am a visual person, so if I keep seeing something that is hurtful it continues to fester. Perhaps I am the only one like that. I have spent a lot of time since reading the Washington Post article and as many others as I could find, paying close attention to details. And I have been thinking a lot. I have concluded that being kind or friendly or sharing cookies is not the answer. They are not enough. That approach does not address the problem. The more I read and think about this, the more I believe that putting up the Black Santa's was the right decision. Showing, not telling is far more effective plus it was an action opposite of the offense. I couldn't imagine that I would be welcome here after making such a post, but I should have apologized first before deleting my account. There are peas I will miss, especially ones whose posts made me think. I will miss being able to ask questions. I regretted deleting my account immediately. But my feelings are irrelevant. The important thing is for this place to be your happy place.Hey, Peas who have the balls to come back here, acknowledge they're wrong/misinformed/or whatever, and apologize for it are Peas we love to have (well maybe I shouldn't speak for everyone). We respect that, not people who delete and slink away. We're all human here, and I've seen quite a few people come back and apologize. I can't imagine that you would think you would be unwelcome; I would imagine that most of us have posted things we regretted. We do what you did: think about what people said, apologize, resolve to do better and move on. I think you should take a look at the part of your quote I bolded because I think those statements may be problematic for you. Why would you say your feelings are irrelevant? Your feelings are relevant--everyone's feelings are relevant--and you are entitled to them, and they are not right or wrong. You're human, feelings are a normal part of being human, and they're yours to feel. And it is not your job (actually it's impossible) for you to ensure how this place is for other people. You only have control of how this place is for you. And if it's true that you regret deleting, and that you will miss it, I hope you will reconsider. This board is full of wise and compassionate women who will lift you up, if you need lifting. |
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naby64
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Post by naby64 on Dec 9, 2020 13:20:14 GMT
Olan I am sorry. No tongue in cheek, no sarcasm. All seriousness.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 9, 2020 14:12:51 GMT
From Olan's links Here is just one actionable idea from one of the links. Just one of over 100 actions to take to be anti-racist: Find out your city or town’s policy on no-knock warrants (the policy that led to Breonna Taylor’s murder). Contact your city or town government representative(s) and police chief to ban no-knock warrants I'm doing this one today. I'll do others in the coming weeks. ------ From the Smithsonian link: Being Antiracist at the Individual and Interpersonal Level When we choose to be antiracist, we become actively conscious about race and racism and take actions to end racial inequities in our daily lives. Being antiracist is believing that racism is everyone’s problem, and we all have a role to play in stopping it Thanks for posting the graphics and amplifying my post! The list is super helpful to me as well. My activism is mostly maternal health related and having it all laid out how to be most effective took away my excuse to “stay in my lane” . I’m working through the list just like you so if anyone needs help or had a question feel free to reach out. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 9, 2020 14:13:11 GMT
Olan I am sorry. No tongue in cheek, no sarcasm. All seriousness. Thank you. |
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Post by peano on Dec 9, 2020 14:48:42 GMT
That is a really useful and clear graphic, @zingermack. It reinforces my understanding of a book that has deeply impacted my thinking lately, Eddie Glaude Jr.’s Begin Again. The book is ostensibly the chronicle of the writer James Baldwin's experiences of the Civil Rights Movement of the late 1950s and early 1960s, but central to the book is a three-part thesis he calls “The Lie”.
To loosely paraphrase:
1) Black people are inferior to white people.
2) America is fundamentally good and innocent and its bad deeds are dismissed as mistakes that have been corrected on the way to a “more perfect union”.
3) This leads to events being manipulated to fit the story whenever America’s innocence is threatened by reality.
Glaude says this is the mechanism that has always allowed America to avoid facing the truth about its unjust treatment of Black people and how it deforms the soul of the country.
From the perspective of the Glaude’s “soul of the country”, the great irony is that with the material advantages bestowed by white privilege, white people are rendered morally and spiritually bankrupt by clinging to this belief structure and it seems this is truly where we are as a country, where 70+ million of its citizens are willing to vote to keep a white supremacist in office.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 14:54:48 GMT
how it deforms the soul of the country. Powerful and true words. I have long said that racism and our past of owning other humans and their children as property has left a deep cleft in the soul of America that we have tried to gloss over rather than really address. You can't subjugate people for 300 years and then go, "okee dokee slavery and Jim Crow are over - everyone has the same chances now - so GO!" |
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Post by peano on Dec 9, 2020 15:32:55 GMT
Having sat firmly in my privilege for so long, it’s like a slap upside the head to finally begin to grasp how deep this wound goes. I keep thinking about the Germans after WWII and how their response and actions against the legacy of Nazism were so different from our glorification of the Confederacy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 4:41:51 GMT
Olan, zingermack and peano, thank you so much for your kind words.
Peano, you are right about it being OK to have feelings. I tend to be a perfectionist and I am perhaps being way harder on myself than might be necessary. And you are right, I cannot make this place a perfectly happy place for everyone. It is not within my boundaries.
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