Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 15:44:42 GMT
Here are the facts: Total Line of Duty Deaths: 278 9/11 related cancer 5 Aircraft accident 1 Assault 1 Automobile crash 20 COVID19 163 Drowned 4 Duty related illness 4 Gunfire 43 Gunfire (Inadvertent) 4 Heart attack 6 Motorcycle crash 4 Struck by vehicle 8 Vehicle pursuit 2 Vehicular assault 13 Bet that's not what you were thinking. www.odmp.org/search/year/2020
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 11, 2020 16:22:31 GMT
Thank you for sharing. It's always good to stay informed. I need to think a bit more about these statistics before I comment further.
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Dec 11, 2020 16:36:22 GMT
Ive seen this from the various groups I follow as well. I would like to see what the fire department numbers are when compared to Law Enforcement and Medical Staff. Unfortunately nobody is going to care about the police department deaths. But if they started putting out the fire department, EMS and nurses/doctors numbers maybe it might get some attention.
**ETA** It was brought to my attention I made a blanket statement by saying NOBODY. I agree it is a blanket statement. Most of the general public doesn't care about the deaths of Law Enforcement officers . But if they started putting out the fire department, EMS and nurses/doctors numbers, that might get more attention for first responder deaths due to COVID.
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Post by elaine on Dec 11, 2020 16:51:15 GMT
Wow. Texas has more than three times the number of LEO deaths in 2020 than any other state at 57. And 48 of those were due to COVID-19.
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Post by ntsf on Dec 11, 2020 17:12:44 GMT
it shows to me that the statistically likelyhood of being killed by a "bad person" on the job is real.. but very very unlikely to actually happen. if that is national wide stats.. it is far more dangerous to be a logger or other high risk jobs.
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schizo319
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Post by schizo319 on Dec 11, 2020 17:14:21 GMT
Whoa... I was not expecting those numbers. My thoughts are all over the place.
I'm very curious if the Covid numbers are based only on cases where it can be proven that it was contracted "in the line of duty" as opposed to off-duty at a family gathering, restaurant, bar, etc.?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 11, 2020 17:16:29 GMT
Covid is the top cause of death this year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 18:07:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 18:12:48 GMT
Here's 2019 for comparison (same source as above): Total Line of Duty Deaths: 148 • 9/11 related cancer 24 • Accidental 1 • Assault 3 • Automobile crash 22 • Drowned 1 • Duty related illness 2 • Explosion 1 • Gunfire 48 • Gunfire (Inadvertent) 2 • Heart attack 19 • Motorcycle crash 1 • Struck by vehicle 14 • Training accident 1 • Vehicle pursuit 1 • Vehicular assault 8 For reference: There are more than 800,000 sworn law enforcement officers now serving in the United States, which is the highest figure ever. About 12 percent of those are female. nleomf.org/facts-figures/law-enforcement-factsSo, when you see 'killed in the line of duty' remember these stats. Because 'killed' isn't always what we first picture.
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Dec 11, 2020 18:21:26 GMT
You are right. I should have said most don't care and it won't grab much attention unless you or someone you love is in law enforcement. However I don't agree with your second statement and I am not in a position to defend my stance. I've seen what happens here on 2 peas with this issue.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Dec 11, 2020 18:36:48 GMT
I also question how they did their tracing on COVID. Was it a direct at work exposure? Or just that many officers died of COVID? right now for a health care worked to say they died or were actually exposed is difficult. It has to be an obvious, tear in my mask, mask fell off, coughed directly in my face, without my face of face shield exposure.
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Post by its me mg on Dec 11, 2020 18:37:14 GMT
You are right. I should have said most don't care and it won't grab much attention unless you or someone you love is in law enforcement. However I don't agree with your second statement and I am not in a position to defend my stance. I've seen what happens here on 2 peas with this issue. I'll second this.
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Post by catmom on Dec 11, 2020 18:48:47 GMT
That is so interesting. I realize I have never seen these stats or given them much thought before, and always assumed what killed in the line of duty meant. Amazing that 20 years later, 9/11 related cancer is still one of the top causes of death. It's interesting that COVID has put more officers at risk than actual gunfire. Clearly enough isn't being done to keep them safe in that regard. I wonder if there are stats comparing COVID deaths in 2020 by profession - I assume health care workers would have the highest rates. I'm still digesting the data....
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Post by hop2 on Dec 11, 2020 19:00:04 GMT
It is sad. It is interesting.
I wish that when I see LEO out doing their job I’d see them wearing masks but I rarely do. Since I’ve been back out for work since August most LEO I’ve passed doing a traffic stop have been maskless. And no they didn’t have face shields on either. I don’t know whether it’s policy or personal preference but clearly it’s adding an additional danger to their job. So wether it’s policy or preference I wish for their health and their families health they'd mask up when they exit their car. I can’t understand why they are not.
That’s what I’ve been wondering since August.
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Post by elaine on Dec 11, 2020 19:07:03 GMT
I also question how they did their tracing on COVID. Was it a direct at work exposure? Or just that many officers died of COVID? right now for a health care worked to say they died or were actually exposed is difficult. It has to be an obvious, tear in my mask, mask fell off, coughed directly in my face, without my face of face shield exposure. For me, it doesn’t matter where they got COVID. The takeaway for me is that if you truly believe “Blue Lives Matter,” then you should loudly and vehemently support mask mandates, social distancing, and measures put in place by local and state governments to reduce the spread of COVID. I’m willing to bet that many of the idiots carrying AR-15 style rifles at Michigan’s statehouse and at other mask protests would claim that they support LEOs. If they truly cared about them, they would also support measures to reduce the #1 killer of LEOs this past year. More LEOs died of COVID than ALL OTHER CAUSES COMBINED! It doesn’t matter where the LEOs contracted the disease - that they did and died is what is important. And we need to do what we can as a society to stop that from happening.
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schizo319
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Post by schizo319 on Dec 11, 2020 19:34:06 GMT
I also question how they did their tracing on COVID. Was it a direct at work exposure? Or just that many officers died of COVID? right now for a health care worked to say they died or were actually exposed is difficult. It has to be an obvious, tear in my mask, mask fell off, coughed directly in my face, without my face of face shield exposure. For me, it doesn’t matter where they got COVID. The takeaway for me is that if you truly believe “Blue Lives Matter,” then you should loudly and vehemently support mask mandates, social distancing, and measures put in place by local and state governments to reduce the spread of COVID. I’m willing to bet that many of the idiots carrying AR-15 style rifles at Michigan’s statehouse and at other mask protests would claim that they support LEOs. If they truly cared about them, they would also support measures to reduce the #1 killer of LEOs this past year. More LEOs died of COVID than ALL OTHER CAUSES COMBINED! It doesn’t matter where the LEOs contracted the disease - that they did and died is what is important. And we need to do what we can as a society to stop that from happening. For me, it DOES matter where they got COVID. If officers are contracting COVID because leadership isn't enforcing safety measures (as an example), then it absolutely matters - and we can't as a society stop that from happening until we determine how, where and why it is happening.
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Dec 11, 2020 19:49:14 GMT
It is sad. It is interesting. I wish that when I see LEO out doing their job I’d see them wearing masks but I rarely do. Since I’ve been back out for work since August most LEO I’ve passed doing a traffic stop have been maskless. And no they didn’t have face shields on either. I don’t know whether it’s policy or personal preference but clearly it’s adding an additional danger to their job. So wether it’s policy or preference I wish for their health and their families health they'd mask up when they exit their car. I can’t understand why they are not. That’s what I’ve been wondering since August. Maybe it is by region? In my town they are all masked up. I have not seen an officer in our city without one since they became mandated. Lets not forget that early on in the pandemic, masks were not recommended. How many of these deaths were before they changed their views on masks etc??
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Post by busy on Dec 11, 2020 19:57:16 GMT
Unfortunately nobody is going to care about the police department deaths. That's a real asshole thing to say. Having problems with the militarization of and systemic racism in policing doesn't mean people don't care about police officers dying.
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Post by busy on Dec 11, 2020 20:00:49 GMT
How are heart attacks considered line of duty deaths? Serious question... that seems strange to me.
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Dec 11, 2020 20:11:16 GMT
That's a real asshole thing to say. Having problems with the militarization of and systemic racism in policing doesn't mean people don't care about police officers dying. I've already amended my statement above and I will say that what I have personally experienced this year backs up my feelings. I have been screamed at, I have been called names, I have been told flat out that nobody cares if officers die. All of this because I have a memorial sticker on my car. It isn't a political statement and never has been, but it is a target now simply because people are angry at Law Enforcement and they take it out on anything that can remotely be considered support of. No it is not a blue lives matter sticker. I have also watched the conversations on this board and how people have been treated. It isn't an asshole statement, it is a statement based on personal experience this year.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 11, 2020 20:45:15 GMT
How are heart attacks considered line of duty deaths? Serious question... that seems strange to me. Stress. Shift work is an issue. Always in fight or flight mode. Always on guard..
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 11, 2020 20:48:33 GMT
I'm very curious if the Covid numbers are based only on cases where it can be proven that it was contracted "in the line of duty" as opposed to off-duty at a family gathering, restaurant, bar, etc.? I only took a look at the first few cases and they were presumed contracted while at work. A couple were working the Mardi Gras crowds in early February before there was any sort of mask mandate. A significant number are corrections officers where little was done to control outbreaks in jails and prisons. Lets not forget that early on in the pandemic, masks were not recommended. How many of these deaths were before they changed their views on masks etc?? Just with a quick count, it looks like only 25% of the COVID related deaths were April 30 or earlier. There was a thread ages ago about Border Patrol deaths and I was surprised that everything and anything was considered "in the line of duty" if you died while employed by the Border Patrol (unrelated car accidents, illness, etc.). I'd always assumed the phrase meant you had died while performing your duties.
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 11, 2020 20:50:37 GMT
How are heart attacks considered line of duty deaths? Serious question... that seems strange to me. If they were employed by a LEO agency when they died it is considered a Line of Duty death.
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Dec 11, 2020 20:53:08 GMT
How are heart attacks considered line of duty deaths? Serious question... that seems strange to me. Stress. Shift work is an issue. Always in fight or flight mode. Always on guard.. I have seen a lot of them related to diving as well for departments that have dive teams. It is a risk that was brought up when I took diving courses
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Dec 11, 2020 21:05:19 GMT
How are heart attacks considered line of duty deaths? Serious question... that seems strange to me. If they were employed by a LEO agency when they died it is considered a Line of Duty death. do you mean if they were on the clock, working? I don't see how a death can be considered Line of Duty just because someone's employment happens to be that profession. if I'm a logger, and I die of a heart attack at home in my recliner, is my death because of logging? eta: I see you answered my question in the post above... it still doesn't make sense to me, but whatever. it smacks a bit of the whole 'someone got tested for COVID but died of a heart attack, and they still wrote COVID as their cause of death' fiction that's going around.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 21:30:57 GMT
It isn't an asshole statement, it is a statement based on personal experience this year. It is when you made it blanket - as you did originally: " nobody is going to care about the police department deaths" That is not a statement from personal experience. That is a statement about NOBODY - meaning a universal. Do you see the difference?
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Dec 11, 2020 21:40:32 GMT
It isn't an asshole statement, it is a statement based on personal experience this year. It is when you made it blanket - as you did originally: " nobody is going to care about the police department deaths" That is not a statement from personal experience. That is a statement about NOBODY - meaning a universal. Do you see the difference? When you pointed it out, I agreed and amended...what more do you want at this point? I agree it was a blanket statement made in error and revised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 21:43:46 GMT
It is when you made it blanket - as you did originally: " nobody is going to care about the police department deaths" That is not a statement from personal experience. That is a statement about NOBODY - meaning a universal. Do you see the difference? When you pointed it out, I agreed and amended...what more do you want at this point? I agree it was a blanket statement made in error and revised. You agreed, but didn't amend. That's why people (who haven't read further down to those posts) are still reacting to it.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Dec 11, 2020 21:47:58 GMT
When you pointed it out, I agreed and amended...what more do you want at this point? I agree it was a blanket statement made in error and revised. You agreed, but didn't amend. That's why people (who haven't read further down to those posts) are still reacting to it. You are right. I should have said most don't care and it won't grab much attention unless you or someone you love is in law enforcement. However I don't agree with your second statement and I am not in a position to defend my stance. I've seen what happens here on 2 peas with this issue. I agreed, and changed my wording. I did not do it in my original post because I expected people to read the thread. My mistake. But I did acknowledge and change my statement after it was pointed out.
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inkedup
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Post by inkedup on Dec 11, 2020 21:50:32 GMT
How are heart attacks considered line of duty deaths? Serious question... that seems strange to me. If they were employed by a LEO agency when they died it is considered a Line of Duty death. I've always found that odd.
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