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Post by sam9 on Jan 4, 2021 20:57:51 GMT
Our schools have been open here since late August. But there are absolutely no team sports allowed anywhere. Hockey is the big thing here. No public ice rinks, inside or outside, are opened except for the ones in people’s private backyards. I have not yet heard of a single child dying from no hochey allowed. My boys are not joyeous about it, but such is life. A lot of other things here are closed too. We go outside as a family and run and walk and play hockey in the street, even when it’s cold.
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Post by Really Red on Jan 4, 2021 21:00:19 GMT
This is not a response to the issue in your post (sports), but just a response to the question in your title. I think that this is the first crisis in history when people have cared about child psychology. During the last real crisis that affected every American, WWII, feelings about children were still very much they should obey, be seen and not heard, do as they’re told, etc. The way we talk and think about children and what we know about children has changed light years since then. This is the first time we are even addressing the issue of are the kids ok. And I do think it’s a good thing we’re thinking about the mental health of kids. Mental health in general! But there are other ways we can support our children’s mental health. I agree with myshelly and with you katybee. What happened to the kids in WWII was horrible and many, many suffered from it. But keep in mind, that for the most part there were two parent families and one parent in the home. Now I know that a lot of servicemen didn't come home, but I'm talking in general. It was a different day and age. This is tough on us all. It doesn't have to be this tough and is only - ONLY - this tough because we have leaders who refuse to take action. That puts me in a mental health crisis, to tell you the truth. I worry, as well, about the abused kids stuck with zero outlet. More of them than we realize. I don't have the answer. But please don't assume (not any of you specifically) that the answer that works for your house will work for everyone. |
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jan 4, 2021 21:02:39 GMT
Our local high school cheer/drill team has 50% positive testing for Covid. Hoe. Lee. Shit. |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456 
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 4, 2021 21:06:19 GMT
I have been wondering this for quite a while and the "my kids needs to socialize," argument. We aren't having any mental health issues (besides normal teenage stuff) in our house but I have four kids... if they were only children maybe... or if it was the 80s and no internet or Netflix... but there are so many ways to keep in touch without actually meeting in person right now besides "open the schools." Ours are supposed to open at the end of this month, we are opting out. For all grades? Damn, with our numbers going up? Re the OP I think a better question is how did parents deal with previous crisis. I think parents are overwhelmed themselves and that is a big part of the problem. I don’t have kids at home and I am out of work anyway, but I can’t imagine trying to work and keep your kids focused on online school and dealing with the downtime they have. I help with a group of 4 kids one day a week and even as a PreK teacher used to dealing with a class of 20 kids it is a lot! Schedules are drastically different and the downtime is extensive. I am firmly in the schools should NOT be open and obviously extracurriculars should be canceled as well, but I do feel for working parents, hell, even non working parents with multiple kid’s schedules to wrangle. The kids I know are doing fine. The 4 I am with and my various nephews and nieces are all doing great. Their parents are a stressed out mess. Honestly, it seems in my observation here, it’s the parents are the ones that are taking this harder and more personally, and fighting hard for them to continue, than their kids are. |
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RedSquirrelUK
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Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Jan 4, 2021 21:12:05 GMT
To answer the question in your title, I can tell you what my Mum has told us about her growing up in London during WW2, which is the worst crisis in living history for her.
There were no sports at all. Playing fields were dug up and planted with vegetables to feed people. The children got their exercise gardening, and walking several miles to and from school using different routes because yesterday's route was bombed. The schools were not closed unless they were bombed, then the children were squeezed into different ones. They were still expected to have their homework done even when they had spent all night in the air-raid shelter. They got punished if they fell asleep in class after being awake all night, terrified, in the bomb raids. Going hungry was no excuse for lack of concentration in class. This went on for 6 years. Mum was 5 when the war started and 11 when it ended.
She is a well-adjusted, sensible, philosophical, resourceful person. Her biggest hang-up from her traumatic childhood is a hatred of fireworks because the bangs jerk her straight back to the bombing. She also has a worry of running out of food, and always keeps a well-stocked dry goods store cupboard.
I know, this wasn't really what you were asking, but doesn't it put into perspective what people are getting upset about in this current crisis?
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Post by peasapie on Jan 4, 2021 21:20:47 GMT
Most parents I know both work and have no child care. So the alternatives to in person school aren’t good
My grandsons go to school in masks two days each week. Two afternoons I babysit while they are home. Their mom is a nurse and can adjust her schedule to work out coverage, but many people can’t - and then what should they do? Yea, it’s babysitting as well as teaching, and it’s a really bad situation for everyone.
There is little evidence of transmission in school when proper precautions are taken. It’s mostly been traced to visitors at homes without masks, or people sitting in bars.
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,093
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Jan 4, 2021 21:36:15 GMT
Most parents I know both work and have no child care. So the alternatives to in person school aren’t good My grandsons go to school in masks two days each week. Two afternoons I babysit while they are home. Their mom is a nurse and can adjust her schedule to work out coverage, but many people can’t - and then what should they do? Yea, it’s babysitting as well as teaching, and it’s a really bad situation for everyone. There is little evidence of transmission in school when proper precautions are taken. It’s mostly been traced to visitors at homes without masks, or people sitting in bars. “Proper precautions” are what everyone says, but they are not implemented properly and widely. My district says they are taking proper precautions. Reality? My district issued a squirt bottle of cleaner and a rag for students to cluster up to wait to use to wipe desks. No masks issued. “About” 6 ft between them. No HEPAs or fans. No enhanced ventilation. Arrows on the floor that no one follows. No plexiglass. No distancing in halls. Teachers are expected to spend time next to students as they help students in the room and Zoom simultaneously. We are told six feet away, but also to go right up to the kids to check and help. Hold small group discussions. Serious conflicts between safety and instructional expectations: give us what we had before but do it safely. Kids remove masks, pull them down, etc. Proper precautions? Haha! |
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Post by ntsf on Jan 4, 2021 22:10:06 GMT
my dad grew up in the depression.. family became homeless.. they moved in with a friend. moved cross country.. my grandmother ran a boarding house and my dad as a teen worked.. and worked.. everything from paper routes to general laborer during the war.
it made him tough, skilled and flexible. but it also made him save money and be very thrifty. he never played sports (couldn't afford the time or money). so went hiking and climbing.. as that was practically free. families need to expand their ideas of being active.. kids could still bicycle, or run, or hike.. and just know that things can't be normal for a long time.
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Post by epeanymous on Jan 4, 2021 22:11:47 GMT
We haven't had in-person school or childcare since last March and we both work full-time.
My dad grew up during the Depression and WWII. His best friend got interned and my dad has battled substance use disorders his entire life. Which I am not saying is connected, but I am not saying "he's fine."
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Post by malibou on Jan 4, 2021 22:12:38 GMT
Check out Wiki's entry about the Blitz,the German bombing of London in WW2. Small extract from Wiki. Casualties and losses ~40,000[1]–43,000 civilians killed[2] ~46,000 – 139,000 injured[2] Two million houses damaged or destroyed (60 percent of these in London) Unknown 3,363 aircrew 2,265 aircraft (summer 1940 – May 1941)[3] ... The government planned the evacuation of four million people – mostly women and children – from urban areas, including 1.4 million from London. It expected about 90% of evacuees to stay in private homes, conducted an extensive survey to determine the amount of space available and made detailed preparations for transporting evacuees. A trial blackout was held on 10 August 1939 and when Germany invaded Poland on 1 September, a blackout began at sunset. Lights were not allowed after dark for almost six years and the blackout became by far the most unpopular aspect of the war for civilians, even more than rationing.[53] The relocation of the government and the civil service was also planned but would only have occurred if necessary so as not to damage civilian morale. Rationing continued after the war Petrol rationing only finished in 1950 Sugar rationing only finished in 1953 We really are only been asked to wear a mask, keep our distance and stay home as much as possible. My mother-in-law was a part of that evacuation. She was gone for 7 years. The first couple of years she was housed with her sister, but they got separated. When she got home she was 13 years old, her older sister had run off and gotten married, and her mother had committed suicide. She spent her teens taking care of the house and cooking for her dad. It definitely affected her. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 4, 2021 22:36:16 GMT
Check out Wiki's entry about the Blitz,the German bombing of London in WW2. Small extract from Wiki. Casualties and losses ~40,000[1]–43,000 civilians killed[2] ~46,000 – 139,000 injured[2] Two million houses damaged or destroyed (60 percent of these in London) Unknown 3,363 aircrew 2,265 aircraft (summer 1940 – May 1941)[3] ... The government planned the evacuation of four million people – mostly women and children – from urban areas, including 1.4 million from London. It expected about 90% of evacuees to stay in private homes, conducted an extensive survey to determine the amount of space available and made detailed preparations for transporting evacuees. A trial blackout was held on 10 August 1939 and when Germany invaded Poland on 1 September, a blackout began at sunset. Lights were not allowed after dark for almost six years and the blackout became by far the most unpopular aspect of the war for civilians, even more than rationing.[53] The relocation of the government and the civil service was also planned but would only have occurred if necessary so as not to damage civilian morale. Rationing continued after the war Petrol rationing only finished in 1950 Sugar rationing only finished in 1953 We really are only been asked to wear a mask, keep our distance and stay home as much as possible. My mother-in-law was a part of that evacuation. She was gone for 7 years. The first couple of years she was housed with her sister, but they got separated. When she got home she was 13 years old, her older sister had run off and gotten married, and her mother had committed suicide. She spent her teens taking care of the house and cooking for her dad. It definitely affected her. My like was one of sadness. How awful. Not enough resources devoted to mental health. Not then and not even now and now we have no excuse. We know exactly how this pandemic is afflicting people. |
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Post by Merge on Jan 4, 2021 22:38:42 GMT
Has anyone considered the mental health of kids whose essential workers parents die of Covid? Or are permanently disabled?
Or are we only to consider those who miss their friends and football teams?
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,401
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Post by DEX on Jan 4, 2021 22:39:16 GMT
I, in no way, want to discount your thoughts. I just wonder about the children of the Holocaust. Seriously, giving up sports for a short period of time and never seeing your family again.. I have tears.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,459
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Post by katybee on Jan 4, 2021 22:42:12 GMT
I am all for helping each other (child, teen or otherwise), doing what we can to supporting mental health. But I think a lot of people are really micro focused on the absolute here and now. I understand that some kids are hoping to track into sports in college and possibly even pro, and this time of less can impact their future. But I also think that is true of anything that kids are missing out on right now. I believe the more important stance is to support your kids through whatever is going on now, and then work on how to bridge any gaps when we get there. There is a lot of projecting about how kids will be worse off because of this pandemic. It is all doom and gloom. Yes, absolutely some will be worse. And yes, more than usual will probably be worse. But what if our kids learn perseverance and strength through adversity and ways to problem solve that never would have happened had it not been for this time? What if we are the people who teach them these skills during this pandemic? And guess who is responsible for all that now.... TEACHERS! We now teach social/emotional learning every day. One more things that’s piled on teachers’ shoulders. We do specific lessons on flexibility, resilience and perseverance. We teach kids how to be kind and cooperate and share. We teach them basic manners and how to say please and thank-you. I’m in kindergarten, so we’ve always done that to an extent, but you would be flabbergasted if you saw the complete lack of these skills kids come to school with these days—and this was PRE-COVID. |
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Post by malibou on Jan 4, 2021 22:50:41 GMT
Has anyone considered the mental health of kids whose essential workers parents die of Covid? Or are permanently disabled? All. Of. The. Time. My heart grieves for every single person who is an essential worker and every person that loves them. It just can't be good to carry the fear and anxiety they all feel. |
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Post by malibou on Jan 4, 2021 22:55:26 GMT
jeremysgirl, thank you. And thank you for always being here to guide us thru mental health issues with compassion and unending understanding, especially when we don't always get it right. You've taught me so much, that I have in turn taught my son. He will be a better person because of you. And holy crap that kid is 20 today! I'm not even old enough to have a 20 year old. 😳
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,459
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Post by katybee on Jan 4, 2021 23:02:47 GMT
Most parents I know both work and have no child care. So the alternatives to in person school aren’t good My grandsons go to school in masks two days each week. Two afternoons I babysit while they are home. Their mom is a nurse and can adjust her schedule to work out coverage, but many people can’t - and then what should they do? Yea, it’s babysitting as well as teaching, and it’s a really bad situation for everyone. There is little evidence of transmission in school when proper precautions are taken. It’s mostly been traced to visitors at homes without masks, or people sitting in bars. But I’m not talking about school. I’m talking about sports....after school. These parents are upset that they were considering cancelling basketball, baseball and softball. And there is overwhelming evidence of spread among these sports teams. (12 varsity football players tested positive right before Christmas. My friend (whose son tested positive) and her entire family had to quarantine for Christmas. |
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,459
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Post by katybee on Jan 4, 2021 23:08:52 GMT
I, in no way, want to discount your thoughts. I just wonder about the children of the Holocaust. Seriously, giving up sports for a short period of time and never seeing your family again.. I have tears. That’s exactly my point. Seems silly for a grown woman to cry in front of the school board because her son might miss baseball this spring. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 4, 2021 23:10:31 GMT
Both of my parents were kids during the Great Depression. My dad had to quit school after the 8th grade to work any odd jobs he could get to help support his family. My mom recalled her mom sharing what little food they had for their family of FOURTEEN with the random people that would hop the trains going from place to place searching for work and who would go knocking on stranger’s doors begging for handouts.
Their lives growing up were HARD. They knew what it meant to be resourceful. They learned how to fix things that broke, how to cook and sew, how to repurpose things and stretch what they did have and make it work. That old saying, “Use it up, wear it out, make do or do without” were words they lived by.
No kids they knew played organized sports back then, they didn’t have the time or probably the energy. Between going to school (for those who were lucky enough to be able to), doing chores at home, caring for younger siblings and doing whatever little jobs they could get for pay, they were lucky if they could cobble together enough kids to have a weekend pickup game of anything. By the time my mom’s older brothers were 17-18, they were enlisted in the Army or Navy and going off to war. They didn’t have the luxury of just being kids and doing kid things.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 4, 2021 23:10:55 GMT
I appreciate the sentiment malibou but I am only one person speaking only from my own experience. There's a lot I don't know. Hell there's so much about the brain scientists don't know. And I started this pandemic really well. But I am not currently doing so hot myself. And I'm not entirely sure it's because of faulty medicine. I'm experiencing an overload of compassion for those suffering right now with the virus, those people are dying, their loved ones left behind. And I'm experiencing some compassion fatigue at those who are pushing to live like normal and those who are struggling but won't go get help (because they aren't mentally ill dammit) or even listen to suggestion. Isolation is starting to get to me too so I've been doing things within reason that I can, like driveby shout outs to my sister and mom. And I've been trying hard not to take on other people's burdens. I'm just hanging in there same as everyone else right now. |
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,459
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Post by katybee on Jan 4, 2021 23:14:21 GMT
We haven't had in-person school or childcare since last March and we both work full-time. My dad grew up during the Depression and WWII. His best friend got interned and my dad has battled substance use disorders his entire life. Which I am not saying is connected, but I am not saying "he's fine." Of course people who lived through things like that are going to be affected. My step-grandmother lived through the depression and I think that was a big factor in her becoming a hoarder. And this pandemic SUCKS. I’m sure it’s stressful for kids. I’m sure they’re scared and lonely and crave normalcy. So we’re going to have to come up with ways to meet their social and emotional needs that do not further spread the virus that is causing the problems to begin with. |
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Post by roberta on Jan 4, 2021 23:23:50 GMT
But what if our kids learn perseverance and strength through adversity and ways to problem solve that never would have happened had it not been for this time? What if we are the people who teach them these skills during this pandemic? Agree. This is a teaching moment (very looonng moment). It is unlikely that their future will be all roses and happy land. Perseverance, resilience, patience and problem solving are incredibly important life skills. They really need to learn these things as it seems so do many parents and adults.
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Post by grammadee on Jan 4, 2021 23:29:47 GMT
A short answer to your question: low--or no-expectations of getting "what I want", limited social contact outside the family, a sense of worth from helping the family survive, and little--or no--information on the alternatives.
Family farm life was hard work, and we all pitched in. Schools had no extra curricular activities, unless you meant feeding and caring for your horses during lunch hour. When we had free time, we made our own fun: we explored, and built forts, and used our imaginations. We weren't always feeling like we were missing out on the experience of our lives.
We played games in the schoolyard. But no one lived more than a few miles from the school, and there was no influx of germs from other places. Needless to say, no inter school competitions or travel.
Did we turn out fine? How would we know? Am I a hoarder now cuz I had nothing as a kid? Guilty. Did I work to make sure MY kids had more opportunities than I had? Yup. Was I ever bored? I don't remember. Do I think of my childhood with regret? NO! I think we learned to enjoy the good times we had and work through the bad ones.
I think alot about the kids with the big dreams and ambitions who are missing out on what they expected would be an awesome year of competition and socialization. But isn't everyone in the same boat? Won't they be able to take up activities they really enjoy later and be on an even playing field? I ask because I don't know.
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Post by busy on Jan 4, 2021 23:39:51 GMT
So because children had it worse in the Holocaust, we are not allowed to admit if our children our struggling now? They just need to be more resilient and if they aren't, that's either our failing as a parent or their failing? jfc
Someone ALWAYS has/had it worse. Always. That does not mean that we should dismiss the genuine difficulties that many children and families are experiencing.
Of course cheerleading and sports shouldn't be happening when there are crazy infection/spread rates.
But try to have a little grace and not sound so damn self-righteous when a lot of people are really having difficult times for a wide variety of reasons. Deaths from covid aren't the only kind of permanent damage that will result from this nightmare.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jan 4, 2021 23:49:07 GMT
This is so timely! My dd and I were just talking about this, this wkend. For the younger generations, this is basically their life changing event. Our grand parents had the WWs and depressions. our parents the Vietnam, Korean wars. We had 9/11 and the shuttle blowing up. I actually think it might open the eyes up of some of these snowflakes. Kids will survive without sports or without their parents being at every game, and every practice. Life will go on. Just like it always has. yes, there will be kids with depression, anxiety, etc, but isn't that life? Life can't always be easy. I sound a bit heartless but I have one person at work crying over her kids not being in sports and our dictator Governor and how we have to "do something".
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Post by fkawitchypea on Jan 4, 2021 23:58:07 GMT
So because children had it worse in the Holocaust, we are not allowed to admit if our children our struggling now? They just need to be more resilient and if they aren't, that's either our failing as a parent or their failing? jfc
This please. My ds is a senior athlete and he will not be playing sports this year. It sucks. The isolation and cancellation of every event they worked towards sucks. Do I think it's the right decision? Of course. My area has the highest concentration of cases in my state right now. Of course football and wrestling are off the table. He gets it. It still doesn't help his feeling sad about what they are missing out on. We will get through it. He will move on to other big life events. But I will not discount his feelings bc other kids have had it worse throughout history.
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Post by peano on Jan 5, 2021 0:00:53 GMT
I realize this pandemic has added additional stress to everyone's life. But rather than flying into a tizzy about your kid not being able to play sports, why not step back and look at the coping skills you have (or have not) instilled in your children. And if you haven't, then is the reason because you have no coping skills yourself, (talking to you, lady in school board meeting sobbing because your kid isn't allowed to play fill in the sport)? In my experience, parents often have poor boundaries leading them to overidentify with their kids and and get overinvested in their kids' achievements.
If there is a bright spot in this pandemic this is it--the opportunity to examine how we are doing emotionally as people and as parts of family systems and start to look at how we can increase our resiliency in ourselves and model that behavior for our children.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jan 5, 2021 0:02:46 GMT
busy said: Deaths from covid aren't the only kind of permanent damage that will result from this nightmare. No one said they were. And no one said they didn't have compassion for people struggling. And no one said that they themselves weren't struggling. I certainly didn't. I have admitted my own struggles in more than one thread of this board, as well as my children's. What I'm railing against is people thinking things can go on as normal (they can't) and that they don't have to put in the work to manage their own and their children's mental health. That's my position consistently in every single post I post on this board. If you know your kid is struggling and you don't get them help, well I have more than a few words for you. If you put all your eggs in one basket thinking that's the key to success? That's a mistake. And I think it's just setting you and your children up for failure. And I stand by that statement. So if you want to disagree with me? I'm fine with that. But to say insinuate that those of us who are concerned with parents who want life as normal pandemic be damned for the sake of not having to teach their kid about alternative ways of coping and putting others at risk through their actions have no compassion for people who are really struggling, couldn't be further from the truth. Saying parents need to step up? I stand by that. They need to. If you are a parent crying over sports, you've got some serious problems.
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Post by peano on Jan 5, 2021 0:11:40 GMT
busy said: Deaths from covid aren't the only kind of permanent damage that will result from this nightmare. No one said they were. And no one said they didn't have compassion for people struggling. And no one said that they themselves weren't struggling. I certainly didn't. I have admitted my own struggles in more than one thread of this board, as well as my children's. What I'm railing against is people thinking things can go on as normal (they can't) and that they don't have to put in the work to manage their own and their children's mental health. That's my position consistently in every single post I post on this board. If you know your kid is struggling and you don't get them help, well I have more than a few words for you. If you put all your eggs in one basket thinking that's the key to success? That's a mistake. And I think it's just setting you and your children up for failure. And I stand by that statement. So if you want to disagree with me? I'm fine with that. But to say insinuate that those of us who are concerned with parents who want life as normal pandemic be damned for the sake of not having to teach their kid about alternative ways of coping and putting others at risk through their actions have no compassion for people who are really struggling, couldn't be further from the truth. Saying parents need to step up? I stand by that. They need to. If you are a parent crying over sports, you've got some serious problems. Amen. Rather than expecting society to cater to you, you need to learn adaptive behaviors that serve you when times get hard. Because it won't just be a pandemic. It will be unexpected premature death, it will be I didn't get into my first choice college, it will be I got laid off the week before Christmas. The visual I have of that lady sobbing in the school board meeting is of a toddler, wailing and stamping her foot because things aren't going her way. |
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Post by Laurie on Jan 5, 2021 0:19:35 GMT
I don’t think there is a one size fits all solution and I don’t think things are mutually exclusive. For example, if the school said tomorrow that the rate is too high or we can’t be safe then I would accept their decision. Would I be sad that my daughter misses out on things from her senior year? Absolutely. Just because I am sad doesn’t mean that we can’t persevere. You can be both.
I don’t know if it is fair to compare two events and diminish one because it wasn’t as bad as the other. That would be like someone saying their mom passed away and they are sad and another poster saying I lost both my parents and a sibling in one accident so you don’t know what sad is. Both deserve to receive compassion and both are worthy of being sad.
Yes, kids right now are not experiencing anything near the horror of the Holocaust. But they are experiencing something hard that they have never been through before and their feelings are still valid. They can be sad for what they are missing out on and still understand it is the right thing to do.
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